0

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Improving Zinc / Copper balance

Commented on October 30, 2013
Created October 24, 2013 at 7:12 AM

I currently have Jarrow brand Zinc Balance at a 15mg to 1mg ratio of Zinc (L-monomethionine) to Copper (gluconate.)

I feel a little bit like I might have some excess copper build up that I would like to address. (Not from these supplements but from decades of poor eating and adrenal function.)

Would I be better with a Zinc-only supplement? (how many mg?) Are there other nutrients / supplements that might help?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19483)

on October 30, 2013
at 09:54 AM

I've read stuff that says that if you have inorganic copper (I guess from the environment, or sucking on pre-1980 pennies?) that you may show both high levels of copper, and copper deficiency syndromes. Apparently, it has to be a chelated, bioavailable form of copper. Perhaps that's the difference?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 30, 2013
at 05:05 AM

Saw my doc yesterday, apparently most of my lingering symptoms come from the bacterial blood poisoning / viral infection. He reminded me that I almost died 6 months ago and that I was now looking better than ever and showed me off to his staff. Looking forward to getting some metrics going soon! I want to run through cholesterol LDL, b12, and all that good stuff.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 30, 2013
at 04:56 AM

Good call, going to hold off until I can get blood testing done next year. Come on Obamacare website!

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 09:40 PM

hi raydawg, if you had success/saw results with using the zinc tally test, may be you could comment/answer an oldish question i asked on the subject back in Feb here

(...you may be the first if you do, i did not get a single response at the time)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 04:17 PM

"Only 1 left in stock." Tempting! That's nice that it's also a supplement and not just some disposable "zinc test". Bookmarked for now. Thanks!

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19483)

on October 24, 2013
at 04:03 PM

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 03:34 PM

"If it tastes like nothing, you need more zinc in your diet. If it tastes disgustingly like metal, you've had enough zinc."

Cool! I want to take this challenge.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 03:09 PM

I am also homozygous c677t, which can lead to toxin accumulation and detox issues. Reading this somewhat hit home. But, it could be anything. So many things cause these symptoms. I did eat a ton of soy/grain/nuts before this diet (almost exclusively) and drank pretty much exclusively from water bottles. (tons of xenoestrogens.) I dunno.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 03:03 PM

Certain, I'm not. I've been trying to figure out where my excess mental stim / anxiety has been coming from. I've gone down the road with my cardiologist where it could be my congenital valve disease. It's sort of an ADD/ADHD type of complaint. I don't really sleep. (I'm actually 48hrs up right now and thinking about popping a beta blocker for my current increased heart rate / palps.) I get frequent headaches (migraines with aura / sinus headaches), I've been dealing with hypoglycemic issues (thyroid panel on sat). I wake up tired / nauseous. Also, skin sores (HSV1/HZV.) I dunno.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 09:08 AM

There's still this tiny voice of hope that says it's all going to come back once my nutrition is corrected and I'm feeling great all the time. I do a #1 or a #2 myself with a Wahl.

Prior to the #1 or #2 in my early 20's, I had long shaggy hair. I'm somewhere around 3-4 on the MPB chart now. Once I hit 5, it'll be time to go to a zero.

You hear about the baby foreskin treatment? lol.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 09:04 AM

"I'm almost ready to upgrade to the slick-bald look"

do it, i run a number zero on the clippers myself, makes life so much easier

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 08:58 AM

my zinc tested above normal, but i expected that as i was doing quite high zinc supps at the time (tho nothing 24hrs before the test, 48hrs would prob have been better).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 08:57 AM

at the same time i also had plasma zinc tested (slightly more accurate/reliable than serum zinc). neither plasma nor serum zinc tests are supposed to be that good for getting a true picture of your bodies zinc status. but still worth getting if you can. supplementing with zinc or eating zinc rich foods can easily raise the numbers. but if the result were to show below normal zinc, that may actually mean something (?).

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 08:56 AM

at the same time i also had plasma zinc tested (slightly more accurate/reliable than serum zinc). neither plasma nor serum zinc tests are supposed to be that for getting a true picture of your bodies zinc status. but still worth getting if you can. supplementing with zinc or eating foods with zinc can easily raise the numbers. but if the result were showed below normal zinc, that may actually mean something (?)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 08:51 AM

Awesome, I'll see if I can get that done on Monday. (I have a follow up with my doc scheduled.) Thanks for the suggestions.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 08:48 AM

the copper tests i had done were, serum copper & ceruloplasmin. you need both of these to get a better picture. relying on serum copper alone is dangerous, as you can test with low serum copper but still have a copper overload/toxicity (ie. Wilson's disease)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 08:48 AM

Ah, interesting. Blood it is then. Although, I am curious what heavy metals might be lurking in what's left of my hair. (I'm almost ready to upgrade to the slick-bald look.)

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 08:41 AM

personally i wouldn't bother with hair analysis...i think the testing itself may be suspect (you could send to 2 diff labs to cover error) & the meaning of the numbers/results themselves is open to interpretation (misinterpretation). i would not feel comfortable 'treating' myself based on hair analysis results. just my personal view on it.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 07:43 AM

@daz this is an interesting article. “While you may be building up a lot of copper in your body, you may also have the symptoms of copper deficiency because the copper is bio-unavailable. The copper is not in a usable form so you will have both deficiency symptoms and symptoms of toxicity.”

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 07:25 AM

@daz That is a good suggestion. In reading more, it looks like low copper would actually cause me more problems than my suspicions of high copper. Hair analysis for metals it is.. if they can find enough on my head, haha. (I wonder how much that costs for a good lab to run.. I need to look into getting my Obamacare going.)

Although I read "Copper is often normal on hair tests, but may actually be locked in body tissues" Tricky.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 07:21 AM

i actually went a bit the other way, increased my copper supp. But i had blood tests first to confirm. I would Not suggest others do the same without getting tested first.

I hear/read that excess copper/copper overload is more common in women than in men (not sure if that is factual or just hearsay).

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2 Answers

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on October 24, 2013
at 11:27 AM

I'm not convinced that the standard American diet has too little zinc and too much copper. I find that I'm actually borderline-copper deficient (or my copper needs are higher than average) even on a paleo diet. Why are you so certain you've got excess copper?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 03:03 PM

Certain, I'm not. I've been trying to figure out where my excess mental stim / anxiety has been coming from. I've gone down the road with my cardiologist where it could be my congenital valve disease. It's sort of an ADD/ADHD type of complaint. I don't really sleep. (I'm actually 48hrs up right now and thinking about popping a beta blocker for my current increased heart rate / palps.) I get frequent headaches (migraines with aura / sinus headaches), I've been dealing with hypoglycemic issues (thyroid panel on sat). I wake up tired / nauseous. Also, skin sores (HSV1/HZV.) I dunno.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 03:09 PM

I am also homozygous c677t, which can lead to toxin accumulation and detox issues. Reading this somewhat hit home. But, it could be anything. So many things cause these symptoms. I did eat a ton of soy/grain/nuts before this diet (almost exclusively) and drank pretty much exclusively from water bottles. (tons of xenoestrogens.) I dunno.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19483)

on October 30, 2013
at 09:54 AM

I've read stuff that says that if you have inorganic copper (I guess from the environment, or sucking on pre-1980 pennies?) that you may show both high levels of copper, and copper deficiency syndromes. Apparently, it has to be a chelated, bioavailable form of copper. Perhaps that's the difference?

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 30, 2013
at 04:56 AM

Good call, going to hold off until I can get blood testing done next year. Come on Obamacare website!

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19483)

on October 24, 2013
at 10:32 AM

I can't speak for the copper, but with zinc, there's a simple way to test if you have enough. There's something called a Zinc Tally Test or a Zinc Challenge. It's a liquid form of zinc, that you taste a small amount of (teaspoon). If it tastes like nothing, you need more zinc in your diet. If it tastes disgustingly like metal, you've had enough zinc. You could test, say once a week or so and if you need it take more zinc the rest of the week, if not stop.

Copper, while easy to OD on, is still a critical mineral to have. Sadly there's no easy do-it yourself test for it. Lots of things chelate out copper, including too much vitamin C.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19483)

on October 24, 2013
at 04:03 PM

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on October 24, 2013
at 09:40 PM

hi raydawg, if you had success/saw results with using the zinc tally test, may be you could comment/answer an oldish question i asked on the subject back in Feb here

(...you may be the first if you do, i did not get a single response at the time)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on October 24, 2013
at 03:34 PM

"If it tastes like nothing, you need more zinc in your diet. If it tastes disgustingly like metal, you've had enough zinc."

Cool! I want to take this challenge.

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