6

votes

Are there any PaleoHackers that still think endurance athletic competition--like marathons and triathalons are ok?--Art DeVany reports a physician death by triathalon and a debilitation by triathalon. Would you as a paleohacker consider entering

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 01, 2011 at 10:26 PM

Dr Devany has been warning of this risk of death for a long time.

http://www.arthurdevany.com/articles/20110531

Sadly, we have a triathlon death to report from the Greely Tribune. And, just this morning I met my Marine buddy who has been doing triathlons for the past 5 years. I was simply shocked at the way he looked, there is no other way to describe it.
The start of a triathlon is among the most dangerous parts of the race. Plunging into cold water in the morning with a hundred or more other competitors thrashing in the water is confusing and panic inducing. It is likely, this young doctor had a heart condition; which, being a doctor there is no excuse for. An existing condition is not so difficult to spot and for a doctor to risk his life and his family's welfare without checking is hard for me to understand. Alas, we all think we are invulnerable.
My Marine friend is described in my book; when I met him he was leather-tough looking, trim, tall, and tan. Just the way a Marine ought to be, though he is a retired one. He began triathlons a short while after I moved into my community. Within a year he was limping most of the time and had lost his tan---he had gone over to indoor training on the treadmills and stationary bikes.
A few years later, he had a heart attack on a training ride. He was pretty far from home and lucky someone stopped and got an ambulance out.

Dr DeVany has been warning of this for years.

Now, he had a massive fall in his last triathlon and severely damaged his right shoulder. He had extensive surgery done and a titanium rod put in. Today, he is a stooped over, greyed, emasciated old man. He looks at least 20 years older and still has that limp.
His smile, and once-firm handshake are gone.

The Newspaper Report http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/warning-over-triathlon-death-rate-1690626.html

And it is not running that is the problem...it is the endurance events and training that are the problem. The Quilt says up to 400 meters only....or a 5k run but no more.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 06, 2011
at 01:46 AM

Ooh fun! I've wanted to do something like that!

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 03, 2011
at 05:13 AM

That depends on your heart rate. For me 131 bpm is the point where I am still burning more fat than glucose. As my heart rate increases I burn more calories however less of them are coming from fat. Until i reach my anerobic rate which is my highest sustainable heart rate. You can get an assesment newleaffitness.com/Business/…Which will let you do this. Worth it in my opinion. Recived this as a gift for Christmas. For more Paleo hacks: http://paleohacks.com/questions/41600/are-there-any-paleohackers-that-still-think-endurance-athletic-competition-like#ixzz1OBeAqbIz

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 03, 2011
at 05:11 AM

That depends on yiur heart rate. For me 131 bpm is the point whre I am still burning more fat than glucose. As my heart rate increases I burn more calories however less of them are coming from fat. Until i reach my anerobic rate which is my highest sustainable heart rate. You can get an assesment http://www.newleaffitness.com/Business/BusPre_productsprograms.html Which will let you do this. Worth it in my opinion. Recived this as a gift for Christmas.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on June 03, 2011
at 12:50 AM

Hahahaha. Sure, so long as there's grass-fed beef. XD

A0b8c4cc369f93ee987ce15b1bf323fe

on June 02, 2011
at 04:20 PM

Whoa, 45 minutes? What about the body releasing stored fat as fuel...?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:17 PM

Quilt- I don't run, at all. But I'm always suspicious of blanket statements. (or should I say Quilt statements? Ha!) The biological plausability is there, but clearly not every endurance athlete dies at an early age. So both sides of the issue should be discussed.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:58 PM

Can I just take you out to dinner instead?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:24 PM

Kamal you maybe you enough where you are ok now. But endurance exercise depletes stem cells. If performance is your game I have zero issues with a person doing it. But I have a duty to tell you what the trade off is. Young people rarely die because their stem cell supply keeps them caught up. But. Between 48 and 60 yrs old the cumulative damage cause cardiac myofibrosis which is easy to detect if you look for it. Armstrong could not get life policy because of his results. Kamal all endurance athletes are offered these tests by the aca because the NIH is sponsoring a study on this

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on June 02, 2011
at 11:58 AM

Aw, shucks. It's all good though... it was worth it ... and frankly, I don't fear death (i.e. loss of stem cells going to speed up the process) ... I have one life to live and I'll die doing what I love. Cheers.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 05:26 AM

Also, ascertaining a "clean heart" through cardiac PET is not at all dichotomous. Abnormal glucose uptake would be subject to cutoffs that vary by patient and by study.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 05:25 AM

For example, PET is way too expensive to order on a routine basis. So outside of clinical trials, I'd imagine very few endurance athletes would just receive a cardiac PET or PET/CT.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 05:22 AM

I predict either A) Selection bias, B) Misinterpretation, or C) Incomplete literature search

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 05:19 AM

"Not one who has been tested has had a clean heart"...????

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:40 AM

Pet scan shows real metabolic activity of the cells....EKG is a piece of garbage for telling the future. If your cell mass is depleted a PET scan shows it. An EKG tells you nada and the doc lets you run and you die at a race. Everyone then looks shocked until they do your autopsy. And then the truth is out.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:38 AM

The heart fails because of Autophagy. And as we age Autophagy as a process does not work as well. But what occurs in endurance athletes all the ROS at the mitochondrial cause stem cell depletion. And hence you get what we see in endurance athletes. Not one who has been tested has had a clean heart. Very few want to know after they see the ACA data. Even conventional cardiology is shocked at the result. Im not. Again biology does not lie. Science is truth.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:36 AM

ekg measures the conduction system.....no myocardial fibrosis Sherpa. That is why these cats drop dead of sudden cardiac death. No cells no energy cause they kill all their cardiac stem cells.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:33 AM

its fine to enjoy what you do as long as you dont mind sacrificing at the back end of your life. Its your life. Your choice. But the science of mitochondrial signaling has an answer for you.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:32 AM

you just lost a boat load of stem cells.

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on June 02, 2011
at 03:37 AM

I did hear Robb say that about crossfit. However Crossfit endurance is a completely different branch. Well, somewhat related obviously but the guys that started it and do the programing really have their shit together. I'm not a fan of general crossfit but I can't say enough good things about crossfit endurance.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:52 AM

* has never done it, irl, but makes an effort and runs 21.2 miles more * Whew. * smiles at Dexter *

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:36 AM

Autophagy. I read The Quilts reply regarding Autophagy and realized I have no idea what it is. I now know it involves a lot of deterioration of all our organs including the heart and rebuilding them..(derived from the Greek meaning "to eat oneself") is present in all eukaryotic cells and is evolutionarily conserved from yeast to humans.8 Bulk proteins and organelles are degraded by autophagy and the degradation products are recycled for the synthesis of new molecules. http://www.hormones.gr/preview.php?c_id=207

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:21 AM

I'm off the meds now! Passing the EKG was what I had to do to talk my doctor into it!

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:20 AM

Crossfit home office in Wash, Dc has lost their way...but some boxes reject the dogma coming out of the home office. Some but not all, sadly.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:18 AM

Melissa, an EKG does not look inside your heart to see if there is any scaring of the heart muscle...as does a PET scan. http://www.bing.com/health/article/harvard-1000244412/Positron-Emission-Tomography-PET-Scan?q=pet+scan I think your heart can get beating fine...even with scaring. Can I ask why you are still on BP meds with your phenomenal results on paleo lifestyle?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:43 AM

I did just have an EKG and it was good. They wanted to check my heart with me being off my blood pressure medication.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:36 AM

not according to Robb Wolf.......old crossfit days did but not the new WOD. You need to listen to his podcast over the last few years he has soured on crossfit as they have lost their way here lately as they have expanded

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:34 AM

get a cardiac Pet scan and come talk to me. if you marathon or endurance run you have autophagic aging in the heart period. You replace cardiac myocytes with scar. All you need to do is get the test and call BS on me. research that is published shows endurance athletes had 100% changes compared to controls who had zero. This site it too hack. And you have to explain the high cardiac death rate in endurance athletes. I will.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:27 AM

YaY, running 5 miles is not marathoning. Good for you.

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:10 AM

* goes out and runs 5 miles * I'm back ... what were you saying? XD

C23ec4b85f3cbeb9ddf6bf78317d56e3

(300)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:41 AM

even when i was 17 and in top notch physical condition, you couldn't have paid me enough money to run more than 400 meters at a time in a competitive event. I ran the mile only because they made me, but I didn't compete in it. I ran 1 or 2 mile warm ups for track practice (less if i could get away with it...) and happily went on my way to sprint or jumping practice. but there are some people who are just really into that sort of thing. I may think they are crazy, but i respect what makes them happy. no one is making you run a marathon. so, chill out, do what you do best and forget the rest!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:36 AM

Yeah, keep 'em coming Dexter :)

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Thanks, Thomas.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:34 AM

From user Kamal: "Do you see any significant differences between eating to look good and eating to live a long time?" Art Devany: "No differences. Health looks good. Inflammation and obesity steal your youth and looks."

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:31 AM

I want to thank Dexter for posting this. The board has been really boring the last few days and this one perked everybody up. I am going to give him a one-up just for that!

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:29 AM

I'm not overwhelmed. People make choices for the short run and the long run. We make these decisions based upon our life experience. Young people make very different choices than do older people with more life experiences. Most people here are looking to maximize their health in the short run...not too many for the the long haul in their remaining lifespans. Once they become more seasoned, reality and mortality, and mobidity slap them up aside the head.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:25 AM

Okay, fair enough. But people seem to be demanding more evidence and less news these days, so this kind of thing will get pushback.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:21 AM

Kamal, it's not about running, it's about marathoning and triathalons. I run some at 68. I just think people should be aware of the choices they make when entering an endurance event. It is just what is. And it is Dr De Vany reporting on his life experiences..that's all.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:20 AM

Kamal, it's not about running, it's about marathoning and triathalons. I run some at 68. I just think people should be aware of the choices they make when entering an endurance event. It is just what is.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:18 AM

Dexter, I am not picking on you personally here. However, let's keep one thing in mind. It's easy to be overwhelmed by media stories. Let's say a child gets abducted from her home in Denver. Of course, terrible. However, we hear about this one story on 24 hour cable news for weeks or months and then begin to believe that child abductions are pandemic. We keep our children in the house and don't allow them out to play, based upon a small probability that, thanks to the media, now looks like a huge threat.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:14 AM

Really? I heard that the planes were hijacked by a gang of high-fructose fruits.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:10 AM

Kamal, let me just state what everybody has known all along: Endurance athletics are what caused 9/11.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:05 AM

Thomas, on Jim Fixx, was it that his grandmother & grandfather had a terrible diet and that followed through to Jim's mother and father...and during Jim's gestation, his mother ate all sorts of neolithic foods and then raised him on neolithic foods and that is why he had CVD and his family had CVD?. I agree, context is everything.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:05 AM

I did a sprint triathlon with minimal training last year, the short distance events can really be fun!

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:00 AM

Thomas, on Jim Fixx, was it that his grandmother & grandfather had a terrible diet and that followed through to Jim's mother and father...and during Jim's gestation, his mother ate all sorts of neolithic foods and then raised him on neolithic foods and that is why he had CVD and his family had CVD? I agree, contect is everything.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:56 PM

FYI, I prefer to die whacking off. If others prefer to die jogging, more power to them.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:54 PM

People are fond of saying on here that correlation does not equal causation. People are going to die running marathons. People are going to die bench pressing. People are going to die whacking off. Jim Fixx, the guy who started the "jogging" revolution died from a heart attack. However, it's not mentioned he came from a family with a history of heart problems, and that those family members died much earlier than he did. CONTEXT is everything.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:46 PM

I agree with Dexter. Shall we not be open to examine the resulting truth that is brought by certain activities and choices? Avoiding doing so could be considered pretty blatant denial of reality.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:35 PM

Not fear tactics...just what is.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:33 PM

Up this one. If people love it let them go for it. I will not judge my 60 year old friend who has been endurance trail running for years.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:21 PM

So, LET'S STOP THE SCARE TACTICS and this HEALTHY PURITANISM!

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 01, 2011
at 10:32 PM

Very sad, but not really a question.

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14 Answers

14
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:05 AM

Seriously?

You already started the endurance athletics causes cancer hack, the running leads to heart attacks hack, and the marathoners look like skeletons hack.

We get it, you think long distance running is bad! Not that I run, at all actually, but I will support rational discussion about exercise to my last breath. It's worth saying for the umpteenth time that correlation does not equal causation. And the presence of a biological mechanism doesn't indicate the one and only absolute truth for everyone.

(p.s. no hard feeling dexter, just that some more balanced conversation might be in order)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:10 AM

Kamal, let me just state what everybody has known all along: Endurance athletics are what caused 9/11.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:14 AM

Really? I heard that the planes were hijacked by a gang of high-fructose fruits.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:20 AM

Kamal, it's not about running, it's about marathoning and triathalons. I run some at 68. I just think people should be aware of the choices they make when entering an endurance event. It is just what is.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:35 AM

Thanks, Thomas.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:36 AM

Yeah, keep 'em coming Dexter :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:31 AM

I want to thank Dexter for posting this. The board has been really boring the last few days and this one perked everybody up. I am going to give him a one-up just for that!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:25 AM

Okay, fair enough. But people seem to be demanding more evidence and less news these days, so this kind of thing will get pushback.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:21 AM

Kamal, it's not about running, it's about marathoning and triathalons. I run some at 68. I just think people should be aware of the choices they make when entering an endurance event. It is just what is. And it is Dr De Vany reporting on his life experiences..that's all.

14
7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

on June 01, 2011
at 11:32 PM

Despite what the Quilt says, I enjoy running and doing biathlons and triathlons. I have learned not to over train and really just do them for the experience.

Running and swimming and biking may not be the very best way to be active for longevity, but they make me happy, which is good for longevity. And ALL OF IT is better than when I was obese, sitting on my ass at home, stuffing my face full of SAD food.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:33 AM

its fine to enjoy what you do as long as you dont mind sacrificing at the back end of your life. Its your life. Your choice. But the science of mitochondrial signaling has an answer for you.

11
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:19 PM

Yes, I think they are ok. I don't care to do them. But I also wonder if the bad effects have not been exaggerated. I have a cousin who is 54 and runs marathons. He looks fine and, as far as I know, suffers from no particular health problems. When he was young he had a bad broken leg and, as a result, was never able to be good at other sports due to that. So, this is a sport at which he does pretty well. He enjoys it. Got news for everybody here. You're going to die, so you might as well do something that you love. Are you going to be on your death bed and congratulate yourself for your "healthy lifestyle", all the while regretting the things you didn't do, because they were not so-called "healthy"? Screw that. If you love running long distance or doing triathlons, keep in mind the possible negatives, and enjoy yourself doing what you love.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:21 PM

So, LET'S STOP THE SCARE TACTICS and this HEALTHY PURITANISM!

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:35 PM

Not fear tactics...just what is.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:34 AM

From user Kamal: "Do you see any significant differences between eating to look good and eating to live a long time?" Art Devany: "No differences. Health looks good. Inflammation and obesity steal your youth and looks."

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:36 AM

Autophagy. I read The Quilts reply regarding Autophagy and realized I have no idea what it is. I now know it involves a lot of deterioration of all our organs including the heart and rebuilding them..(derived from the Greek meaning "to eat oneself") is present in all eukaryotic cells and is evolutionarily conserved from yeast to humans.8 Bulk proteins and organelles are degraded by autophagy and the degradation products are recycled for the synthesis of new molecules. http://www.hormones.gr/preview.php?c_id=207

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:56 PM

FYI, I prefer to die whacking off. If others prefer to die jogging, more power to them.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 05:26 AM

Also, ascertaining a "clean heart" through cardiac PET is not at all dichotomous. Abnormal glucose uptake would be subject to cutoffs that vary by patient and by study.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:17 PM

Quilt- I don't run, at all. But I'm always suspicious of blanket statements. (or should I say Quilt statements? Ha!) The biological plausability is there, but clearly not every endurance athlete dies at an early age. So both sides of the issue should be discussed.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:05 AM

Thomas, on Jim Fixx, was it that his grandmother & grandfather had a terrible diet and that followed through to Jim's mother and father...and during Jim's gestation, his mother ate all sorts of neolithic foods and then raised him on neolithic foods and that is why he had CVD and his family had CVD?. I agree, context is everything.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:34 AM

get a cardiac Pet scan and come talk to me. if you marathon or endurance run you have autophagic aging in the heart period. You replace cardiac myocytes with scar. All you need to do is get the test and call BS on me. research that is published shows endurance athletes had 100% changes compared to controls who had zero. This site it too hack. And you have to explain the high cardiac death rate in endurance athletes. I will.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:33 PM

Up this one. If people love it let them go for it. I will not judge my 60 year old friend who has been endurance trail running for years.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:24 PM

Kamal you maybe you enough where you are ok now. But endurance exercise depletes stem cells. If performance is your game I have zero issues with a person doing it. But I have a duty to tell you what the trade off is. Young people rarely die because their stem cell supply keeps them caught up. But. Between 48 and 60 yrs old the cumulative damage cause cardiac myofibrosis which is easy to detect if you look for it. Armstrong could not get life policy because of his results. Kamal all endurance athletes are offered these tests by the aca because the NIH is sponsoring a study on this

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:54 PM

People are fond of saying on here that correlation does not equal causation. People are going to die running marathons. People are going to die bench pressing. People are going to die whacking off. Jim Fixx, the guy who started the "jogging" revolution died from a heart attack. However, it's not mentioned he came from a family with a history of heart problems, and that those family members died much earlier than he did. CONTEXT is everything.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 05:19 AM

"Not one who has been tested has had a clean heart"...????

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:18 AM

Dexter, I am not picking on you personally here. However, let's keep one thing in mind. It's easy to be overwhelmed by media stories. Let's say a child gets abducted from her home in Denver. Of course, terrible. However, we hear about this one story on 24 hour cable news for weeks or months and then begin to believe that child abductions are pandemic. We keep our children in the house and don't allow them out to play, based upon a small probability that, thanks to the media, now looks like a huge threat.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:18 AM

Melissa, an EKG does not look inside your heart to see if there is any scaring of the heart muscle...as does a PET scan. http://www.bing.com/health/article/harvard-1000244412/Positron-Emission-Tomography-PET-Scan?q=pet+scan I think your heart can get beating fine...even with scaring. Can I ask why you are still on BP meds with your phenomenal results on paleo lifestyle?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:36 AM

ekg measures the conduction system.....no myocardial fibrosis Sherpa. That is why these cats drop dead of sudden cardiac death. No cells no energy cause they kill all their cardiac stem cells.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:29 AM

I'm not overwhelmed. People make choices for the short run and the long run. We make these decisions based upon our life experience. Young people make very different choices than do older people with more life experiences. Most people here are looking to maximize their health in the short run...not too many for the the long haul in their remaining lifespans. Once they become more seasoned, reality and mortality, and mobidity slap them up aside the head.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:00 AM

Thomas, on Jim Fixx, was it that his grandmother & grandfather had a terrible diet and that followed through to Jim's mother and father...and during Jim's gestation, his mother ate all sorts of neolithic foods and then raised him on neolithic foods and that is why he had CVD and his family had CVD? I agree, contect is everything.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 05:22 AM

I predict either A) Selection bias, B) Misinterpretation, or C) Incomplete literature search

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:38 AM

The heart fails because of Autophagy. And as we age Autophagy as a process does not work as well. But what occurs in endurance athletes all the ROS at the mitochondrial cause stem cell depletion. And hence you get what we see in endurance athletes. Not one who has been tested has had a clean heart. Very few want to know after they see the ACA data. Even conventional cardiology is shocked at the result. Im not. Again biology does not lie. Science is truth.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:21 AM

I'm off the meds now! Passing the EKG was what I had to do to talk my doctor into it!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 02, 2011
at 05:25 AM

For example, PET is way too expensive to order on a routine basis. So outside of clinical trials, I'd imagine very few endurance athletes would just receive a cardiac PET or PET/CT.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:46 PM

I agree with Dexter. Shall we not be open to examine the resulting truth that is brought by certain activities and choices? Avoiding doing so could be considered pretty blatant denial of reality.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 04:40 AM

Pet scan shows real metabolic activity of the cells....EKG is a piece of garbage for telling the future. If your cell mass is depleted a PET scan shows it. An EKG tells you nada and the doc lets you run and you die at a race. Everyone then looks shocked until they do your autopsy. And then the truth is out.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:43 AM

I did just have an EKG and it was good. They wanted to check my heart with me being off my blood pressure medication.

4
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 02, 2011
at 06:35 AM

Compare a top sprinter to a top marathoner. the sprinter has muscle. The marathoner not so much...

At the 45 minute mark or so of exercise cortisol kicks in and starts eroding muscle mass.

I have switched my workouts to be 8 sprints 3 times a week with rest inbetween and one leasurely run.

A0b8c4cc369f93ee987ce15b1bf323fe

on June 02, 2011
at 04:20 PM

Whoa, 45 minutes? What about the body releasing stored fat as fuel...?

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 03, 2011
at 05:11 AM

That depends on yiur heart rate. For me 131 bpm is the point whre I am still burning more fat than glucose. As my heart rate increases I burn more calories however less of them are coming from fat. Until i reach my anerobic rate which is my highest sustainable heart rate. You can get an assesment http://www.newleaffitness.com/Business/BusPre_productsprograms.html Which will let you do this. Worth it in my opinion. Recived this as a gift for Christmas.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 03, 2011
at 05:13 AM

That depends on your heart rate. For me 131 bpm is the point where I am still burning more fat than glucose. As my heart rate increases I burn more calories however less of them are coming from fat. Until i reach my anerobic rate which is my highest sustainable heart rate. You can get an assesment newleaffitness.com/Business/…Which will let you do this. Worth it in my opinion. Recived this as a gift for Christmas. For more Paleo hacks: http://paleohacks.com/questions/41600/are-there-any-paleohackers-that-still-think-endurance-athletic-competition-like#ixzz1OBeAqbIz

4
B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on June 02, 2011
at 03:51 AM

I love to run long distances.

I will continue to do so.

You are welcome to visit me on my death-bed.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:58 PM

Can I just take you out to dinner instead?

B1fcaceba952861d0324bdb291edbbe0

(3159)

on June 03, 2011
at 12:50 AM

Hahahaha. Sure, so long as there's grass-fed beef. XD

4
03281912f1cb9e4e771a8a83af302e3a

(1204)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:59 PM

I don't blame the event, I blame the training. I have kicked around the idea of triathlon but only because it is a challenge. Chronic over-training(stress) paired with a "healthy" diet(grains and seed oils) are most likely more of a culprit than the events themselves.

My biggest issues have always been entry fees and equipment costs.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:05 AM

I did a sprint triathlon with minimal training last year, the short distance events can really be fun!

2
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:45 AM

To add more fuel to this fire, endurance sports may not be healthy but they are paleo...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15549097

I should also add that the day this question was posted, I found out that a member of my cycling club (45 yr old man, rode a LOT of miles) died of a heart attack.

2
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on June 02, 2011
at 12:45 AM

Crossfit endurance does a fantastic job of training endurance athletes with WAY less volume than traditionally done in those sports.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on June 02, 2011
at 01:36 AM

not according to Robb Wolf.......old crossfit days did but not the new WOD. You need to listen to his podcast over the last few years he has soured on crossfit as they have lost their way here lately as they have expanded

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on June 02, 2011
at 03:37 AM

I did hear Robb say that about crossfit. However Crossfit endurance is a completely different branch. Well, somewhat related obviously but the guys that started it and do the programing really have their shit together. I'm not a fan of general crossfit but I can't say enough good things about crossfit endurance.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on June 02, 2011
at 02:20 AM

Crossfit home office in Wash, Dc has lost their way...but some boxes reject the dogma coming out of the home office. Some but not all, sadly.

1
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 06, 2011
at 12:50 AM

I've never done a marathon or even a really long run but yesterday I completed the Spartan Race in tuxedo park NY. Only 3.5 miles but it took me 1 hour 18 minutes:) I'm pretty fit, too. Wasn't easy but not too hard either. Good time. I'd say as far as fitness that is popular within paleo circles, it'd make many of you happy. Very Crossfit like things, some movnat vibe too.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on June 06, 2011
at 01:46 AM

Ooh fun! I've wanted to do something like that!

1
Ffc7e0ecad8e8831b528c5d4921377cc

(942)

on June 02, 2011
at 03:13 AM

I walked one half marathon. I'm glad I did but probably wouldn't do it again.

The club I trained with (Sacfit in Sacramento, CA) brought in Mark Sisson to speak. That's where I heard of paleo/primal. The club has a very primal friendly approach to training. Increasingly long runs/walks just once a week, with two sprint sessions in between. The turn out lots of excellent competitors. Only a few of the elite runners look like skeletons. If running is your passion, you can do it without too much damage to yourself.

0
59fa7cd87fb9d669adf21e5cf3e7ada5

on July 18, 2012
at 12:22 PM

I run 30 miles a week and have a long history of running but the marathon has never appealed to me, always seemed like a gimmick.

Better to work towards running a decent time in the 10k than to walk/run a marathon in 5 hours.

The attitude in paleo towards sports has always mystified me.

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 18, 2012
at 12:17 PM

I like to race 5K - 10 Mile distances. I do sprint and olympic tris. So I am sort of a short-long-distance athlete.

I love it, there's not much better than the "zen-like" feeling you get when you hit your stride on a long run.

That being said, I am not elite, and I do not push myself past when I feel uncomfortable (well really uncomfortable)...

0
Afc0b8e755ac7cdde6b517fdadb50026

(778)

on July 18, 2012
at 05:13 AM

i just jogged 6 times around a 400m track. i forgot my phone. next time ill just try to do as much as i can in 12minutes.

i feel good. im not gonna run a 20k or anything. i do hiit as well. ill continue.

0
9711f45b6d2544fb97c0b9890486b8f3

on July 17, 2012
at 11:39 PM

Let's be clear. "Triathlon" is a big category. Training for a sprint triathlon is far less strenuous than say, training for a half Ironman. I doubt anyone has ever keeled over from doing a sprint tri! These races are a good way to get healthy without overdoing it.

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