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Dance: less stamina without carbs?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 24, 2013 at 2:48 AM

I just went to a dubstep party. After dancing for three hours I got tired. This is not normal. Could this be due to lower carbs? Could it be glycoocen depletion related? Could I use raisins or banana (or a sugary drink) to keep going? Do you have any advice considering going to raves, what to feed yourselve with beforehand that's conform paleo?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on March 27, 2013
at 01:53 AM

That burns and demands WAAAAAAAY more calories than a flat ground marathon. CC skiing, swimming, and vertical backpacking are demanding.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on March 27, 2013
at 01:51 AM

From my experience, there is no greater way to bonk than to begin training with carbs, and if its long duration, than taking no carbs during or after. If you got too skinny, you didn't eat enough calories. VLC, that means fat and protein. Were you getting 2.5-3G protein/kg bodymass? Nearly the same grams of fat as protein? If not, that's why you got skinny. If you want to gain while heavy lifting cycle, eat carbs pwo. And, anyone who disagrees that endurance can't be done without carbs, you should try to keep up with me up more than 2000 vertical meters with a heavy pack for 10 hr daily

Medium avatar

(2417)

on March 27, 2013
at 01:46 AM

Sprinting and heavy lifting, which is intermittent, use higher energy, but the duration is short enough that fat oxidation rates have time to resupply. This is why fasted lifting in leangains works so well. I'm actually stronger. However, if you want to grow, much less preserve muscle, CALORIES overall are paramount. Carbs after ANY training will help that end way more than VLC. The point is to use your fat for energy as much as you can, and resupply with carbs. If you're training is endurance, long duration, higher energy demand, carbs DURING become necessary.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on March 27, 2013
at 01:41 AM

Andrew, PM me if you'd like. Let me clarify. Endurance means prolonged exertion at a sustainable level below failure, and uses glucose at a demand rate that fat oxidation cannot supply. That's why I speak of heart rate as a measure. If you want to call walking on flat ground endurance, fine. Heart rate is low enough that the rate of fat mobilization for energy can keep up with demand. As heart rate rises above 120-130 in my experience, that rate is less and less sufficient, and the demand-supply curves will cross at a point in time called bonk.

0b4326a4949718451a8571b82558dc10

(2349)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:58 PM

More importantly...how do you keep muscle mass without using carbs? Why couldn't I do it?

0b4326a4949718451a8571b82558dc10

(2349)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:55 PM

Why are carbs not okay for sprints and heavy stuff? but okay for endurance? Don't we primarily use glucose when doing intense activities and fat for slow & steady?...I got way to skinny lifting heavy on VLC.

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4 Answers

2
Medium avatar

on March 24, 2013
at 04:04 AM

Zero carb accommodates my heavy weight lifting quite excellently, and makes daily life more energetic indeed.

Sport climbing, same deal.

Anything that gets your heart rate up over 120BPM or so and stays there needs carbs in my experience. Im quite well fat adapted. But hiking up a big mountain, on ketosis, and I bonk hard every time.

Solution? Don't think about what to eat before hand, think about what to eat just afterwards to refuel while you are still hot and loose: starch. Sweet potatoes or rice balls work great.

That said, for me, if I'm summiting a big mountain, hiking up and keeping my heart rate above the stated levels for more than an hour, I fuel rice or starch DURING the activity.

From using a heart rate monitor, and taking notes, I've found starting such an endeavor on meat and fat alone and NEVER using carbs before hand is best. Get your heart rate over 120, ideally 130ish sustained for over 30 min, ideally an hour, THEN while hot you can fuel starch to your hearts desire, even some sugar, and your body is a furnace that soaks them up and uses them efficiently.

For sprints and heavy stuff, no way. But sustained, sweaty endurance, use em.

0b4326a4949718451a8571b82558dc10

(2349)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:58 PM

More importantly...how do you keep muscle mass without using carbs? Why couldn't I do it?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on March 27, 2013
at 01:51 AM

From my experience, there is no greater way to bonk than to begin training with carbs, and if its long duration, than taking no carbs during or after. If you got too skinny, you didn't eat enough calories. VLC, that means fat and protein. Were you getting 2.5-3G protein/kg bodymass? Nearly the same grams of fat as protein? If not, that's why you got skinny. If you want to gain while heavy lifting cycle, eat carbs pwo. And, anyone who disagrees that endurance can't be done without carbs, you should try to keep up with me up more than 2000 vertical meters with a heavy pack for 10 hr daily

0b4326a4949718451a8571b82558dc10

(2349)

on March 24, 2013
at 11:55 PM

Why are carbs not okay for sprints and heavy stuff? but okay for endurance? Don't we primarily use glucose when doing intense activities and fat for slow & steady?...I got way to skinny lifting heavy on VLC.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on March 27, 2013
at 01:46 AM

Sprinting and heavy lifting, which is intermittent, use higher energy, but the duration is short enough that fat oxidation rates have time to resupply. This is why fasted lifting in leangains works so well. I'm actually stronger. However, if you want to grow, much less preserve muscle, CALORIES overall are paramount. Carbs after ANY training will help that end way more than VLC. The point is to use your fat for energy as much as you can, and resupply with carbs. If you're training is endurance, long duration, higher energy demand, carbs DURING become necessary.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on March 27, 2013
at 01:53 AM

That burns and demands WAAAAAAAY more calories than a flat ground marathon. CC skiing, swimming, and vertical backpacking are demanding.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on March 27, 2013
at 01:41 AM

Andrew, PM me if you'd like. Let me clarify. Endurance means prolonged exertion at a sustainable level below failure, and uses glucose at a demand rate that fat oxidation cannot supply. That's why I speak of heart rate as a measure. If you want to call walking on flat ground endurance, fine. Heart rate is low enough that the rate of fat mobilization for energy can keep up with demand. As heart rate rises above 120-130 in my experience, that rate is less and less sufficient, and the demand-supply curves will cross at a point in time called bonk.

1
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on March 24, 2013
at 10:41 PM

There's a reason most of the endurance athletes you'll meet pound away carbs during exercise. Eat all the carbs you need, fruits, potatoes, yams, even more digestible fare like rice, juice, or honey is probably fine.

Then keep on dancing.

0
37cc142fbb183f2758ef723a192e7a9d

(1353)

on March 24, 2013
at 12:26 PM

Dates are my favorite post-run refuel.

0
89fa2da4805b0b4e54b77a5a20a2e206

on March 24, 2013
at 02:54 AM

not sure about raves :) DONT DO ExxxxxxxTASY THOUGH!..totally not paleo ! :but yeah definitely could be your going too low carb. No- to sugary drink ..yes to bannanas or apples or something with natural fructose/glucose. Before you go out have a nice bunch of sweet potatoes or yams with cinnamon and and a squeeze of lemon. Delish ! and dont drink too much ..:) not sure how well sweet potatoes mixxes with booze :)

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