2

votes

Why do primal eaters believe dairy products are ok for consumption?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 21, 2012 at 3:18 PM

People who follow the primal lifestyle clearly pay a lot of attention to food and health but they still eat dairy despite the fact that it has hormones that aren't good for us and raise insulin. What are their justifications for eating dairy?

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on February 17, 2013
at 04:41 AM

you got a grain brain!

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on February 17, 2013
at 04:37 AM

lol jamie is a secret troll for the FDA or dairy industry. got milk?

Bfd70bb38267fcc2d762063d691fa226

(723)

on February 01, 2013
at 08:38 PM

I'd also like to add that with the exception of fats, all foods raise insulin even if it is only slightly. Yes, even protein has an effect on insulin. Problems only arise when you are constantly spiking insulin to high levels like sugar rushes. If you are guzzling huge amounts of milk, yes it could get to be a problem. If you drink it more moderately, it is less of a problem.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 25, 2012
at 12:21 AM

tl;dr: you're wrong and WAPF grains are healthy.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 25, 2012
at 12:20 AM

Josh, NO food on this planet is perfect. Even your precious grass-fed beef is exposed to environmental toxins because life does not exist in a vacuum. As someone with severe FODMAPs issues, I know for a fact (and you're 100% incorrect on this matter) that fermentation reduces both phytates and gluten to a negligible level. I've NEVER gotten any GI issues from WAPF grains. Not even a little. If I consume SAD grains, my body will let me know I screwed up a day later.

8109fc078d6ff5ff05743d448c2d3849

(90)

on October 24, 2012
at 09:25 AM

Besides as I stated in a comment below I'm a pretty avid raw milk drinker!

8109fc078d6ff5ff05743d448c2d3849

(90)

on October 24, 2012
at 09:24 AM

Reduction is not an elimination..

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 22, 2012
at 03:44 AM

Gluten is reduced by fermentation and so is phytic acid and depending on your method of cooking, they're also a source of probiotics. How, then, are WAPF prepared grains unhealthy? You've been sipping the Paleo kool-aid for too long.

8109fc078d6ff5ff05743d448c2d3849

(90)

on October 22, 2012
at 02:57 AM

WAPF prepared grains are not healthy, they are just less poisonous...

81348acb7b886e2b32ca915d250268f3

(1022)

on October 22, 2012
at 02:50 AM

Whether or not (and I acknowledge that it's not) a 'paleo' food for humans, raw milk does contain a hell of a lot of beneficial nutrients. There's plenty of food that our primal ancestors may not have eaten, but as long as it's nutrient rich and does us no harm, I see no problem with it.

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on October 22, 2012
at 02:43 AM

I sure didn't mean to imply that anyone is not allowed to eat dairy products or anything else they choose. That call is up to each of us individually.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 22, 2012
at 12:23 AM

And of course, we are mammals.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 22, 2012
at 12:22 AM

Dairy is correlated with lower BMI, and also all the things in marks daily apple above (lower diabetes, lower heart disease). Its a short chained fat too, so it probably boost metabolism like coconut oil.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 21, 2012
at 11:08 PM

Aseafish, your statement that "we don't always know what we can and cannot tolerate" only applies to people who haven't been tested for IgG+IgE food intolerances or are out of tune with their body. I'm not a diagnosed celiac, but I know I can't tolerate gluten. However, I eat a SHITLOAD of dairy and it hasn't given me any issues whatsoever. Even when I go out and eat unhealthy pasteurized dairy, I feel fine. But if I go out and eat commercial grains, I'll regret it the next day.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 09:57 PM

@aseafish - it's a very valid concern, but there are all sorts of intolerances out there. We can't stop eating everything that people can possibly be intolerant to, regardless of symptoms. n=1 isn't the only factor that should be considered, but it shouldn't be discounted, either.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on October 21, 2012
at 06:23 PM

I'm celiac. I've been tested for casein tolerance. I was in the clear - thank you, Scandinavian genes! Now that I've given up grain and legumes, why should I exclude a delicious food that I can periodically culture? It's not like I drink milk straight. And I am uncomfortable with the endless use of coconut milk from a can. That stuff takes a lot of fuel to get to me. The local raw dairy is maybe 20 miles away and I'm helping to preserve farmland and agriculture in my community.

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:34 PM

By "whatever you want" I was simply referring to the choice to include dairy, not any and all whatevers. It was probably a poor choice of words on my part. We don't always know what we can and cannot tolerate, though, until lots of damage has been done.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:37 PM

I see your point, but I wouldn't go that far. The addition of dairy, for those who have no lactose/casein problems, doesn't seem like justification for eating whatever you want. It's not like Primal adds in wheat or something. I see it kinda like the PHD on white rice - a grey area that some people can tolerate and some people can't.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:33 PM

It might also be nice if you phrased the question to Primal eaters, since many of us post here, instead of being like "HAY PALEO GUYZ WUZ UP WIT DOSE PRIMAL WEIRDOS?"

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:24 PM

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz29x3AqHbH

F4a6fc9f0b701e12cdf2ad5dadaeb2dd

(360)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:28 PM

They usually drink grass-fed and/or organic and/or raw milk.

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13 Answers

11
3bc294cb7745a5e99612ff886ca00101

(1186)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:43 PM

Hmm, it is either healthy or not healthy depending on who you are and how your body handles it. It seems there is a lot of contradictory claims on the issue of hormones in milk affecting humans.

The way I see it dairy is loaded with nutrients, protein and vitamins, and is easy, and is delicious. Not everyone is aiming for 100 percent primal, but a feasible meal plan for daily life.

I personally am not too big on dairy. I choose occasional high fat yogurt or creme fraiche, small amounts of delicious cheese, and a dollop of organic cream for coffee one or two cups per day. (Organic cream-- oddly enough I chose it not so much because it's organic but because all the other creams have thickeners like carrageenan-- why? It's already thick.)

As well I think eating some dairy, within reason, makes giving up so many other foods more feasible, especially as a transition, and if you are feeding a household.

7
61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:28 PM

My justification is that I like it, I do well on it as I have no casein/lactose issues, the issue of hormones is definitely up for debate, and insulin secretion is not necessarily a bad thing. Just like cortisol, we need insulin. Insulin resistance is a bad thing, but I certainly don't know of anyone who has given themselves T2D from dairy sugars.

Dairy isn't for everyone, but there is no food that is right for every single person.

6
0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

on October 21, 2012
at 03:27 PM

Because high-quality dairy is healthy. The same way that high-quality traditionally prepared (WAPF) grains are healthy.

8109fc078d6ff5ff05743d448c2d3849

(90)

on October 24, 2012
at 09:24 AM

Reduction is not an elimination..

8109fc078d6ff5ff05743d448c2d3849

(90)

on October 22, 2012
at 02:57 AM

WAPF prepared grains are not healthy, they are just less poisonous...

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 22, 2012
at 03:44 AM

Gluten is reduced by fermentation and so is phytic acid and depending on your method of cooking, they're also a source of probiotics. How, then, are WAPF prepared grains unhealthy? You've been sipping the Paleo kool-aid for too long.

8109fc078d6ff5ff05743d448c2d3849

(90)

on October 24, 2012
at 09:25 AM

Besides as I stated in a comment below I'm a pretty avid raw milk drinker!

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 25, 2012
at 12:21 AM

tl;dr: you're wrong and WAPF grains are healthy.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 25, 2012
at 12:20 AM

Josh, NO food on this planet is perfect. Even your precious grass-fed beef is exposed to environmental toxins because life does not exist in a vacuum. As someone with severe FODMAPs issues, I know for a fact (and you're 100% incorrect on this matter) that fermentation reduces both phytates and gluten to a negligible level. I've NEVER gotten any GI issues from WAPF grains. Not even a little. If I consume SAD grains, my body will let me know I screwed up a day later.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on February 17, 2013
at 04:41 AM

you got a grain brain!

5
6cdc6b1e75690cfcc4804a6c9eaa910a

(2171)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:35 PM

It's not a question of belief, it's a question of fact and experience. Some people produce lactase in sufficient quantities to deal with lactose, so why shouldn't they eat dairy? Not a question of belief. Many might not technically produce enough but have no bad experience with dairy. Their experience therefore tells them it's OK to eat. Maybe the FACTS and EXPERIENCE of the benefits of dairy outweigh the negatives, and they aren't so dogmatic as to base what they eat on a theory rather than facts and experience.

4
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:32 PM

Primal blueprint does not recommend dairy. It is, at best, in the gray area. Personally, I have 0 adverse reactions to dairy, and I have numerous positive benefits. Why wouldn't I continue to consume it?

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/#axzz29xJwDFMp

3
Cbdc8318738324492f2d5918868ce4c9

(1211)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:18 PM

It's often fatty or fermented grass-fed dairy that have no/small amounts of the problematic lactose sugars or casein proteins, like cream, butter/ghee, cheese, yogurt.

3
Bd614f091f0625dea86bad5791471f2d

(775)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:27 PM

Butter and cheese from grass-fed dairy are good sources of K2.

2
F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on October 22, 2012
at 01:23 AM

In reality, the diet of hunter-gatherers and the diet of pastoralists are largely the same. Many Primal Blueprint followers eat no dairy and some who do (like myself) eat only cheese or yogurt and never drink milk. I let the bacteria eat the indigestible stuff and leave me the tasty stuff. I think drinking milk is for babies and basing your diet on yogurt and smoothies is for sissies.

1
2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on October 21, 2012
at 06:41 PM

there's nothing wrong with it. dairy can be very good for you. excuses are not necessary

0
Bfd70bb38267fcc2d762063d691fa226

(723)

on February 01, 2013
at 08:45 PM

A reason why there is a lot of negative talk about dairy is that many, many people are lactose intolerant. It is much more common than say nut or seafood allergies. Many, like myself, get stomach aches from milk. I can tolerate other forms of dairy with less lactose such as cheese and even cottage cheese. There are varying degrees of lactose intolerance. Some even have negative reactions to butter.

That being said, it is not ideal to base your diet around dairy. Animal meats are much better sources of you dietary needs, and they do not give nearly as many people digestive problems.

Personally, I eat the dairy that I can handle only occasionally. Sometimes I will have cottage cheese before bed on a day that I work out for its casein. Most of my protein and fat, however, come from animals.

0
8109fc078d6ff5ff05743d448c2d3849

on October 22, 2012
at 02:38 AM

I can tell you I think of myself as 100% Paleo despite eating raw organic dairy.. And by that I mean unpasteurized milk, I have yet to culture Kefir, or yogurt, but I will soon be ordering Kefir culturing grains (should be called granules because they're not anywhere like the grains your probably thinking of) soon. Until, I read, about milk, not pasteurized milk or dairy, because I avoid that stuff to no end, but real raw organic milk being unbeneficial then I'll stop drinking it.

But so far everything I've read even in paleo circles has to do with intolerances, of which I have no experience with. It seems to me that there is so little that has been studied in regards to raw milk that it needs to be further explored before it can be demonized like pasteurized milk products. I think the findings may surprise all of us in the paleosphere who as a collective whole have been known to discount all milk as being bad.

0
7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on October 22, 2012
at 01:56 AM

Well dairy FAT provides a great source of real vitamin A and K2 without any issues with lactose or casein.

0
45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:29 PM

Beats me. I know this will offend some, but often what I read and hear sounds like justification for eating what you like. I am not telling anyone not to eat dairy; I simply don't get it.

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on October 21, 2012
at 05:34 PM

By "whatever you want" I was simply referring to the choice to include dairy, not any and all whatevers. It was probably a poor choice of words on my part. We don't always know what we can and cannot tolerate, though, until lots of damage has been done.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 04:37 PM

I see your point, but I wouldn't go that far. The addition of dairy, for those who have no lactose/casein problems, doesn't seem like justification for eating whatever you want. It's not like Primal adds in wheat or something. I see it kinda like the PHD on white rice - a grey area that some people can tolerate and some people can't.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on October 21, 2012
at 06:23 PM

I'm celiac. I've been tested for casein tolerance. I was in the clear - thank you, Scandinavian genes! Now that I've given up grain and legumes, why should I exclude a delicious food that I can periodically culture? It's not like I drink milk straight. And I am uncomfortable with the endless use of coconut milk from a can. That stuff takes a lot of fuel to get to me. The local raw dairy is maybe 20 miles away and I'm helping to preserve farmland and agriculture in my community.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on October 21, 2012
at 09:57 PM

@aseafish - it's a very valid concern, but there are all sorts of intolerances out there. We can't stop eating everything that people can possibly be intolerant to, regardless of symptoms. n=1 isn't the only factor that should be considered, but it shouldn't be discounted, either.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 21, 2012
at 11:08 PM

Aseafish, your statement that "we don't always know what we can and cannot tolerate" only applies to people who haven't been tested for IgG+IgE food intolerances or are out of tune with their body. I'm not a diagnosed celiac, but I know I can't tolerate gluten. However, I eat a SHITLOAD of dairy and it hasn't given me any issues whatsoever. Even when I go out and eat unhealthy pasteurized dairy, I feel fine. But if I go out and eat commercial grains, I'll regret it the next day.

45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on October 22, 2012
at 02:43 AM

I sure didn't mean to imply that anyone is not allowed to eat dairy products or anything else they choose. That call is up to each of us individually.

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