1

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Why are eggs okay but not dairy? (endocrine perspective)

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created October 25, 2012 at 11:04 AM

In their 2012 book "It Starts With Food", the Hartwigs argue that one reason dairy is to be avoided is because it contains lots of hormones intended to promote growth in calves, and thus when consumed by human adults messes up the hormonal signaling to the brain resulting in endocrine confusion and bad health. On another note, they claim eggs are very healthy because of it being so nutritious.

However, is not the hormonal argument against dairy also applicable to eggs? I would suppose the macro molecules in the egg to be optimalized for a chicken embryo in its initial growth phase, and would from this be inclined to believe that also this would potentially be a bad-hormonal activity promoter in humans, just like the hormones found in dairy.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 29, 2012
at 12:29 PM

For me, dairy (cream/butter/cheese) makes it much easier to attain high fat levels in my diet, which, as a T2 diabetic, is a dietary manuever appropriate to my condition.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 29, 2012
at 12:29 PM

Lactose is only a problem if you are intolerant. If you have lactase persistence, it shouldn't be a problem. I use mostly high fat dairy anyways... Casein is only a problem if it makes it to the intestines intact. If you have a properly functioning stomach generating a normal amount of acid, the casein proteins will be cleaved long before they can do damage. Probably not a good idea to do dairy if you are on a PPI inhibitor though... Whey is not a molecule that is known to be problematic, although some people claim to have a whey allergy.

1b47e0a6d7984e33e59581d8364cc3dd

(716)

on October 26, 2012
at 07:08 AM

For example IGF-1

1b47e0a6d7984e33e59581d8364cc3dd

(716)

on October 26, 2012
at 06:42 AM

And btw, if this is scientific.. "I have absolutely no clue if dairy is suitable for regular consumption - so I've put it firmly in my diet" :D http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/#axzz2ANpzjQTe

1b47e0a6d7984e33e59581d8364cc3dd

(716)

on October 26, 2012
at 06:36 AM

There is plenty of hard science documenting many of the various molecules in dairy that are specifically good for babies and not good for adults. It's up to you to decide whether they are good for you or not. If those guys relied on science and logic to make conclusions about dairy for adults, they would end up with issues. Probably they know it will kill a lot of their audience though, as pretty much everyone is in love with dairy :)

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on October 25, 2012
at 11:13 PM

fucking echo chambers, how do they work?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 25, 2012
at 10:31 PM

Which hormones? Id need to know what hormones to judge whether they are good or bad for us. Growth hormone, testosterone, thryoid hormone, estrogen, oxytocin what?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 25, 2012
at 10:28 PM

This entirely depends apon the source of your dairy, and the source of your eggs. You can get organic, hormone free stuff (where I live its standard). The only thing we give our cows generally here, is salt licks for minerals. Id say its probably better to avoid hormones, which can be found in factory style anything (meats, eggs, milk).

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11 Answers

best answer

6
1b47e0a6d7984e33e59581d8364cc3dd

(716)

on October 25, 2012
at 01:12 PM

No, eggs do not contain such hormones, sedatives, addictive substances, etc. A growing embryo is very different from alive calves.

best answer

6
4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on October 25, 2012
at 02:49 PM

Eggs are designed to help little chicks grow to around the size of the egg. They are nutritious, with minimum growth hormones (because the chick can't grow past the size of the egg.)

Milk is designed to take a small infant (baby or calf) and cause it to triple in size (or more). There are no growth restraints besides nutrients, so they are designed to be a substance with lots of nutrition, growth factors, and substances that make the baby want more.

6
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 25, 2012
at 02:29 PM

I usually don't expect to get hard science from infomercials. Whole9/30 is the strictest interpretation of paleo, which most people on paleohacks are not following. The reason we don't follow it? The science doesn't support it. (Or maybe we are just lazy...)

I prefer to follow the scientific thought process of the likes of Mark Sisson, Dr. Kurt Harris and Paul Jaminet, all of whom take little issue with dairy.

1b47e0a6d7984e33e59581d8364cc3dd

(716)

on October 26, 2012
at 06:36 AM

There is plenty of hard science documenting many of the various molecules in dairy that are specifically good for babies and not good for adults. It's up to you to decide whether they are good for you or not. If those guys relied on science and logic to make conclusions about dairy for adults, they would end up with issues. Probably they know it will kill a lot of their audience though, as pretty much everyone is in love with dairy :)

1b47e0a6d7984e33e59581d8364cc3dd

(716)

on October 26, 2012
at 06:42 AM

And btw, if this is scientific.. "I have absolutely no clue if dairy is suitable for regular consumption - so I've put it firmly in my diet" :D http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/#axzz2ANpzjQTe

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 29, 2012
at 12:29 PM

For me, dairy (cream/butter/cheese) makes it much easier to attain high fat levels in my diet, which, as a T2 diabetic, is a dietary manuever appropriate to my condition.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 29, 2012
at 12:29 PM

Lactose is only a problem if you are intolerant. If you have lactase persistence, it shouldn't be a problem. I use mostly high fat dairy anyways... Casein is only a problem if it makes it to the intestines intact. If you have a properly functioning stomach generating a normal amount of acid, the casein proteins will be cleaved long before they can do damage. Probably not a good idea to do dairy if you are on a PPI inhibitor though... Whey is not a molecule that is known to be problematic, although some people claim to have a whey allergy.

4
Dd74e6399ae697d8603dc9aa74fbafae

(695)

on October 25, 2012
at 11:01 PM

Here's one for all of you saying that milk is filled with estrogen:

"Production rates of E(1) plus estradiol in human beings range from 54,000 to 630,000 ng/day. US Food and Drug administration guidelines state that no physiologic effects occur when consumption is ???1% of the endogenous quantities produced by the segment of the population with the lowest daily production. This threshold value for intake would be 540 ng/day. Estimated total E(1) intake from three servings of whole milk was 68 ng/day, which represents 0.01% to 0.1% of daily production rates in human beings. These findings support levels below the current guidelines for safe consumption." Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22561023

If milk is filled with hormones, then I'd really like to see some studies on the subject, because I have not found a single study which clarifies whether this is a myth or actual science.

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on October 25, 2012
at 11:13 PM

fucking echo chambers, how do they work?

4
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on October 25, 2012
at 04:48 PM

It would be more appropriate to compare eggs to animals rather than to milk. Milk is food for a calf and it helps the calf grow. The egg is there to become a bird, if we are permitted to be somewhat teleological about it. So, if we go and eat this stuff, what do we get. In the case of the eggs, probably about the same nutrition as if we swallowed live baby chicks whole. Regardless of hormone profile, this is something we can handle.

If we drink milk we get food, not just hormones, but proteins that are specifically saying grow. Cows are really heavy- much heavier than predators who eat baby chicks. The signal has to be orders of magnitude bigger per ounce, because calves have to get that much bigger.

3
8af1e83ec3ea5a39f050baf362708a78

(253)

on October 25, 2012
at 06:24 PM

Milk has lactose, which is a sugar. So you'd expect it to have a strong insulinogenic effect.

Cream, hard cheeses, etc., don't have lactose, but they do have casein, which is a protein, so you'd expect them to have a mild insulinogenic effect.

Butter and ghee don't have either - they're mostly or almost entirely fat, so you'd expect them to have a minimal insulinogenic effect.

But it's not clear to me why anyone would expect lactose to have a stronger insulinogenic effect than any other sugar, or casein than any other protein.

If you have a problem with insulin levels, you do want to severely limit your sugar intake, and to keep an eye on your protein. But I don't see why dairy would be treated differently in that respect than any other source of sugar or protein.

Now, there are a lot of people who are sensitive to lactose, and a smaller number who are sensitive to casein, who should limit milk or milk and cheese, but I'm not aware that those sensitivities have anything to do with insulin.

3
8109fc078d6ff5ff05743d448c2d3849

on October 25, 2012
at 01:26 PM

I think it has a lot to do on the source of dairy, plus the type of processing its been through.. Think about the studies conducted on dairy.... Most all of them are on Conventional hormone filled antibiotic ridden, pasturized cows milk, not on organic grass raised raw milk... There is a vast difference, that I think many people tend to overlook. I feel as if the jury is still out on whether or not milk can be beneficial or not when consumed from the right source.

1
3b0b95dfc6dc5c18e535945f4aab0866

on October 25, 2012
at 08:24 PM

Lactase persistence (i.e. the ability to digest milk into adulthood) arose genetically within humans in the past 10,000 years. Hence it is a recent evolutionary development for consumption, at least in adults.

As for eggs, I suspect humans and their ancestors have had the genetically capability to consume eggs for millions of years... just guessing... :)

0
D41bd7b3d3b962eb0146f471eb632f56

on October 25, 2012
at 08:18 PM

Eggs aren't dairy, though grocery stores have made it seem like it for all these years. I like Alton Brown's thoughts on eggs. They are essentially "liquid meat."

Dairy, however, is not a creature (like a cow) nor a proto-creature (like eggs), so the two really shouldn't be compared like that. Eggs would be better compared to the eggs of other creatures, like fish roe, etc. and perhaps organ meats.

0
9d2a03c4e66173ad9ad9d259f084bc21

on October 25, 2012
at 04:39 PM

Cow's milk contains growth and sex hormones in large quantities and especially when they are pregnant which is how they are kept for the production of milk in western countries. The hormones are there whether or not the cow is given hormones in their feed.link text

0
51c66d8a6f3005628535a50a950b1c61

(1003)

on October 25, 2012
at 03:47 PM

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/#axzz2AKHUeBci

Dairy apparently has a strong insulinogenic effect...which is of course important to those with diabetes, prediabetes, looking for weight loss, etc.

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