4

votes

which dairy is most harmful?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 04, 2012 at 5:13 PM

first of all, are there antinutrients in dairy? i heard Cordain's new book talks about some, but is that just the lactose/casein concerns?

i am obsessed with dairy--mostly cheese--but am trying to clear up long-term depression and brain fog so that i can function. i am thinking of eliminating my dairy consumption except for grassfed butter, heavy cream, and home-cultured sour cream (heavy cream + buttermilk) as a yogurt replacement. are these choices still inflammatory if they are low in protein? will they spike my blood sugar with minimal protein?

would the potential harmful effects of dairy be thwarted if i ate these dairy products and elmininated raw milk, cheese, yogurt, and kefir?

i have never noticed a sensitivity to dairy, but i have never eliminated it from my diet as i love it so.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on September 05, 2012
at 07:03 PM

@Chris S- Barbarians is a term for savages. In Ancient Greece, butter and milk were both considered barbaric foods, so they were not consumed. Instead, cheese and possibly yogurt were the dairy foods consumed (from goats). The Spartan warriors are said to have subsisted on primarily pork stew, which was supplemented with figs/fruit, cheese, and bread (because they had no utensils, so bread was used for this purpose instead). They also supplemented with seafood, but pork stew was their staple main course. Obviously, olive oil also made into their diets.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on September 05, 2012
at 06:57 PM

They would also eat seafood, but their staple was pork stew.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on September 05, 2012
at 06:56 PM

@ Chris S- In ancient Greece, it butter and milk were foods of the Barbarians and so were not consumed. Instead, cheese and possibly yogurt were had. The Spartan warriors subsisted on Pork stew, bread (there were not utensils like we have today, so they ate stews and soups with bread as their spoon), figs, olive oil, and cheese.

De641ff2accb4975e1f42886b43009db

(2227)

on September 05, 2012
at 06:41 PM

Care to explain the spartan warrior bit?

54f75fb54778cfa947990bec1175307a

(665)

on September 05, 2012
at 02:38 AM

nursling, probably you don't have enough fat from other sources that's why so addicted to dairy.

F0a9dea438e7943fa05da318773e785e

on September 04, 2012
at 11:42 PM

best of luck to you and I hope you get the result you are looking for!

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on September 04, 2012
at 11:06 PM

i am willing to eliminate it after learning about the opioid effects of casein. but first i am going to significantly cut casein out of my diet and see if that helps anything. if not, i will go dairy-free

Bece741db5f5fed6bafa12e3548f973f

(715)

on September 04, 2012
at 09:20 PM

http://www.naturalnews.com/023752_cows_lactose_intolerance_casein.html

Bece741db5f5fed6bafa12e3548f973f

(715)

on September 04, 2012
at 09:18 PM

http://www.naturalnews.com/023752_cows_lactose_intolerance_casein.html Are you sure about the A2 and A1 thing. This article, if I'm interpreting it correctly would seem to point to A2 being less harmful than A1 and you said A2>A1 Jersey cows are A2 and so they would be less harmful.

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on September 04, 2012
at 07:13 PM

Jersey cows are

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on September 04, 2012
at 07:08 PM

that's really interesting. i would believe that i am addicted to cheese. thank you for the good argument.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on September 04, 2012
at 06:56 PM

Are there a2 specific breeds?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 04, 2012
at 06:52 PM

The kind that kicks you in the head as you milk it? (Sorry for the smart ass answer, couldn't help myself.)

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 04, 2012
at 06:50 PM

Cheese is often a favorite food because it has both opiates in it (that can make it both addictive and cause brain fog), and can have mycotoxins that could very well cause brain fog. The biggest indicator that a food could be a problem is a sudden and defensive feeling at the prospect of giving it up. Any food "you can't live without" is a red flag. For me that used to be chocolate, dairy, pastries, and wine. I gave them up for 90 days once just to see, and it did make a difference in feeling like I needed to have them vs. thinking of them as nice indulgence.

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on September 04, 2012
at 05:26 PM

do you really think it might have something to do with the brain fog? i eat dairy every day :( cheese is my favorite food and i have held out on eliminating it. sigh

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on September 04, 2012
at 05:17 PM

Judging by my gut reaction - the most harmful dairy is pasteurized and skimmed.

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5 Answers

7
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on September 04, 2012
at 06:21 PM

This is a loaded issue, and it depends on what you're specifically concerned about.

  • type: a2 cows > a1 cows

  • pastured > grain/vegetarian fed

  • protein breakdown of complete milk protein: 20% whey, 80% casein

  • least carbs: protein concentrates/isolate & cheese & farmers cheese > cottage cheese > Greek yogurt > yogurt > milk

  • least casein (sorted within food type): whey protein isolates/concentrates > ricotta cheese > yogurt & milk > cottage cheese & Greek yogurt > cheese

  • lactose (sorted by food type): protein isolates > Greek yogurt > yogurt > cheese

  • rapidity of absorption: whey protein > casein protein

  • biological value: whey protein > casein protein

  • cancer protective and health promoting properties: Whey > all the rest

  • associated with health problems such as constipation, allergy, addiction/brain fog (opiates) and cancer: casein protein

* with all of the above in consideration, it should be noted that butter and cream are virtually devoid of lactose/carbs and proteins, and Ghee even more so. However, these are particularly high in palmitic acid, and their consumption would be considered barbaric if you happen to have been a spartan warrior in a past life.

* Typically, raw > pasturized > pasturized/homogonized. However, this is not always the case. Some people find raw dairy to be MORE allergenic than pasteurized/homogonzied dairy. However, for these people, it would probably be wise to omit dairy all-together as a sign you aren't meant to be eating it in the first place if you cannot tolerate it in its natural state.

Hope that helps you out.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on September 04, 2012
at 06:56 PM

Are there a2 specific breeds?

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on September 04, 2012
at 07:13 PM

Jersey cows are

Bece741db5f5fed6bafa12e3548f973f

(715)

on September 04, 2012
at 09:20 PM

http://www.naturalnews.com/023752_cows_lactose_intolerance_casein.html

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on September 05, 2012
at 07:03 PM

@Chris S- Barbarians is a term for savages. In Ancient Greece, butter and milk were both considered barbaric foods, so they were not consumed. Instead, cheese and possibly yogurt were the dairy foods consumed (from goats). The Spartan warriors are said to have subsisted on primarily pork stew, which was supplemented with figs/fruit, cheese, and bread (because they had no utensils, so bread was used for this purpose instead). They also supplemented with seafood, but pork stew was their staple main course. Obviously, olive oil also made into their diets.

Bece741db5f5fed6bafa12e3548f973f

(715)

on September 04, 2012
at 09:18 PM

http://www.naturalnews.com/023752_cows_lactose_intolerance_casein.html Are you sure about the A2 and A1 thing. This article, if I'm interpreting it correctly would seem to point to A2 being less harmful than A1 and you said A2>A1 Jersey cows are A2 and so they would be less harmful.

De641ff2accb4975e1f42886b43009db

(2227)

on September 05, 2012
at 06:41 PM

Care to explain the spartan warrior bit?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on September 05, 2012
at 06:56 PM

@ Chris S- In ancient Greece, it butter and milk were foods of the Barbarians and so were not consumed. Instead, cheese and possibly yogurt were had. The Spartan warriors subsisted on Pork stew, bread (there were not utensils like we have today, so they ate stews and soups with bread as their spoon), figs, olive oil, and cheese.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on September 05, 2012
at 06:57 PM

They would also eat seafood, but their staple was pork stew.

6
Medium avatar

(10663)

on September 04, 2012
at 05:22 PM

Raw, full-fat dairy --> raw, high-fat dairy --> raw milk --> organic, hormone- and antibiotic-free full-fat dairy.

Avoid homogenized and pasteurized milk.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/#axzz25WSIL7wW

5
45ace03a0eff1219943d746cfb1c4197

(3661)

on September 04, 2012
at 05:21 PM

If your intent is to clear up brain fog so you can function, I'd suggest you seriously consider avoiding all dairy products for awhile. I'm not saying you should give them up forever.

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on September 04, 2012
at 05:26 PM

do you really think it might have something to do with the brain fog? i eat dairy every day :( cheese is my favorite food and i have held out on eliminating it. sigh

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 04, 2012
at 06:50 PM

Cheese is often a favorite food because it has both opiates in it (that can make it both addictive and cause brain fog), and can have mycotoxins that could very well cause brain fog. The biggest indicator that a food could be a problem is a sudden and defensive feeling at the prospect of giving it up. Any food "you can't live without" is a red flag. For me that used to be chocolate, dairy, pastries, and wine. I gave them up for 90 days once just to see, and it did make a difference in feeling like I needed to have them vs. thinking of them as nice indulgence.

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on September 04, 2012
at 07:08 PM

that's really interesting. i would believe that i am addicted to cheese. thank you for the good argument.

1
F0a9dea438e7943fa05da318773e785e

on September 04, 2012
at 06:58 PM

Well I guess the question is, are you willing to try to eliminate it? I was only able to find one study using the search headers dairy and depression and I'll link it below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20460228

That study suggested lower fat dairy was a better option, however the study is correlational of course, so take it as you would like. Now as for antinutrients, I would encourage you to read a site like the one below:

http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/hormones.html

all foods contain substances in them that our bodies use in either positive or negative ways, depending on our needs at that time. Dairy is no different, although because it's from a living mammal it has hormones that are similar to ours in certain cases that can even mimic ours.

Personally, I gave up dairy. I was allergic as a child, outgrew it in my youth, but as an adult it gives me hormonal problems and the depression and brain fog you too describe. I would say give the elimination a shot. You can always add it back if you so desire.

F0a9dea438e7943fa05da318773e785e

on September 04, 2012
at 11:42 PM

best of luck to you and I hope you get the result you are looking for!

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on September 04, 2012
at 11:06 PM

i am willing to eliminate it after learning about the opioid effects of casein. but first i am going to significantly cut casein out of my diet and see if that helps anything. if not, i will go dairy-free

-1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 04, 2012
at 07:38 PM

The raw dairy contaminated with listeria is the most harmful.

Otherwise all the other factors are ultimately individually determined. There are no hard and fast rules. I can handle any type of dairy, period. Though I think the listeria-laden stuff might give me a little trouble.

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