0

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What is your ideal paleo dairy product?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created December 14, 2012 at 1:54 PM

Hi folks,

Given the opportunity to create your very own paleo dairy super product, what would you make? How is the dairy industry letting you down and how are they innovating to make paleo more exciting and accessible?

C6648ab69e5a1560c7585fe3ba7108fb

(880)

on June 05, 2013
at 05:28 PM

Quick question: have you found any sources that actually give specific values or percentages for how much lactose is consumed during the process? Someone asked the question a couple of days ago and I could only give them a rough estimate based on how sour my kefir ends up based on how long it ferments...

68655ec9711d207d69a63ebf96b37573

on June 05, 2013
at 12:09 PM

In the UK, St Helen's farm do cream, butter and yoghurt from goat milk, but I only ever found the cream in Waitrose

4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on December 17, 2012
at 09:09 PM

That is an interesting question. Trader Joe's sells grass fed New Zealand aged cheese for around $6 per pound, which is what I buy and find reasonable. I havent seen a good cost comparison with a grass fed dairy and whey fed pork operation, which I think is more sustainable.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:48 PM

Well, let me just say that I think enough people are now in the know that I would make it a marketing point if I were raising them. Dunno if it has reached the tipping point....per say, but general public knowledge in this regard does seem to be on the rise.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 17, 2012
at 02:06 PM

Can you define what you define as affordable per lb of cheese?

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on December 16, 2012
at 05:34 AM

Yep. That's the reason.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on December 16, 2012
at 04:20 AM

"Gliadin was detected in all 49 milk samples. Its concentration varied between 5 and 1200 ng/ml (mean, 178 ng/ml)." So using humans as a rough approx. for cows (given lack of data in cows), then on average we'd get about 0.1 ppm gliadin, but some could have over 1 ppm. For those of us celiacs who get intestinal damage in the single digit ppm range, that's enough to cause a problem. And it could be the case that trace amounts of gluten make a casein reaction worse. It could also be the case that more gliadin gets through to the milk in cows: we just don't know unless it is tested.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on December 16, 2012
at 04:13 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9867098 Scand J Gastroenterol. 1998 Nov;33(11):1186-92. Presence of high levels of non-degraded gliadin in breast milk from healthy mothers.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on December 16, 2012
at 04:10 AM

"It can get through to the milk in humans, but bovines have a different digestive tract, and I haven't seen studies showing whether it does or doesn't in cows."

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:23 AM

It's unlikely that gluten is getting into the milk, but it is fairly common for gluten intolerance to go hand in hand with dairy intolerance.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:22 AM

The reason why commercial kefir is not the same is because they don't actually use kefir grains for production. The yeasts in kefir grains can create alcohol which makes the kefir illegal. Also it causes bottles to explode because of the CO2 gassing. Kefir cultures are commercially made with yogurt probiotics and effervescent varieties.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:21 AM

It's pasteurized.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:20 AM

So do you feel that A2 milk is getting enough steam for the market to be a relevant differentiating point? We've been breeding A2 genetics for over 10 years. We just never talk about it.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:19 AM

Raw milk is going to be tough regardless of ruminant species. What about goat milk,pasteurized, but as kefir, greek yogurt, etc?

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16 Answers

5
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on December 16, 2012
at 01:51 AM

The perfect Paleo dairy is home-made goat kefir. Even if you cut out ALL other dairy, that's one kind of food that it's very important to have, IMHO. And it's the kind of food that most (not all) dairy intolerant people CAN tolerate. The reason: we in the West, all have an altered gut flora (pretty much all of us). For at least the last 3 generations we have being doing some very bad stuff to our gut flora (not to mention the last 10,000 years). Kefir is the most potent of all fermented foods in terms of repopulating our gut flora with the right species. It has over 43 different kinds of yeasts and bacteria, making it up to 10x more potent than yogurt. Its bacteria colonize the human gut, while yogurt's don't (it's transient). Commercial kefir is NOT as potent as home-made one. Also, when fermented for 24 hours, most lactose goes away. Finally, the goat/sheep part takes care of the casein part (A2 casein is more compatible with humans than cow casein).

So while I allow this specific dairy product to my diet, I still call my diet Paleo, and not Primal, because I consider this the missing link in the actual Paleo diet. When Robb Wolf wrote his book, he CORRECTLY dissed dairy. But he only researched US cow dairy, which is terrible (usually unferemented, bad casein). Not goat/sheep kefir. I hope he takes the time to talk and recant about it in his new book. Kefir is a superfood.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:22 AM

The reason why commercial kefir is not the same is because they don't actually use kefir grains for production. The yeasts in kefir grains can create alcohol which makes the kefir illegal. Also it causes bottles to explode because of the CO2 gassing. Kefir cultures are commercially made with yogurt probiotics and effervescent varieties.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on December 16, 2012
at 05:34 AM

Yep. That's the reason.

C6648ab69e5a1560c7585fe3ba7108fb

(880)

on June 05, 2013
at 05:28 PM

Quick question: have you found any sources that actually give specific values or percentages for how much lactose is consumed during the process? Someone asked the question a couple of days ago and I could only give them a rough estimate based on how sour my kefir ends up based on how long it ferments...

3
77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on December 14, 2012
at 07:05 PM

Raw goat's milk. Also organic jersey yogurt, made by Saint Benoit, it doesn't specify raw or pasteurized but it is organic and from jersey cattle.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:21 AM

It's pasteurized.

3
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on December 14, 2012
at 04:10 PM

Raw pastured (grass fed) goat or cow milk (A2). Heck even gently pasteurized for those against raw (I think the A2 and grass fed is more important for many). And its impossible for them to let me down. I have no faith or expectations when it comes to any large scale food industry.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:20 AM

So do you feel that A2 milk is getting enough steam for the market to be a relevant differentiating point? We've been breeding A2 genetics for over 10 years. We just never talk about it.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on December 17, 2012
at 02:48 PM

Well, let me just say that I think enough people are now in the know that I would make it a marketing point if I were raising them. Dunno if it has reached the tipping point....per say, but general public knowledge in this regard does seem to be on the rise.

3
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on December 14, 2012
at 02:22 PM

Raw goats milk.

They are letting me down by forcing me to get my milk from a jar rather than the source.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:19 AM

Raw milk is going to be tough regardless of ruminant species. What about goat milk,pasteurized, but as kefir, greek yogurt, etc?

2
E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on December 16, 2012
at 01:03 AM

whey protein isolate! fetta cheese!

for me these are paleo because no farting from them.

2
366c23d69eadce094a2b22299c58a424

(2988)

on December 14, 2012
at 05:57 PM

Gosh, there are so many wonderful full fat dairy products these days, many of them organic...cheese, yogurt, etc. The dairy industry is not letting me down at all. In fact, will take this opportunity to thank all the artisanal cheese producers here & in Europe who are making fabulous raw milk cheeses. And thank you Organic Valley for the great grass-fed cultured butter.

2
Ef777978cfeb8fbdd18d75c4f6c4cb23

on December 14, 2012
at 03:22 PM

I am very happy to eat Jersey Double Cream. Strawberries & cream, bleueberries & cream, raspberries and cream ~ all delicious and the cream just fires me up with energy. Wonderful.

I've never tried raw milk so I have no idea if it would make any difference.

1
68655ec9711d207d69a63ebf96b37573

on June 05, 2013
at 12:16 PM

Raw, organic, grass-fed goat yoghurt, cheese and keffir. I can get goat milk keffir here (Dubai) sometimes but it's not raw, or homemade. I can, however, get raw goat butter! All are imported from Austria

Camel yoghurt or keffir, but I've never found it. I think camel milk doesn't coagulate very well - it's almost impossible to make cheese out of it, so maybe that's why there is yoghurt.

I should try to make camel-milk keffir. I am sure I could get raw camel milk from a camel farmer

1
F907531cc916e3f705a37eca5e8939b4

on June 05, 2013
at 10:28 AM

I love cheese and yoghurt. I am lactose intolerant and can't take milk but have no issues with either cheese or yoghurt. That being said, cheese is very expensive in Singapore and the type of yoghurt I like (Fage brand) is also very costly at S$5 for one small tub (170grams).

1
089dd41b18fbb95ebb5347cded708d98

(5635)

on June 05, 2013
at 04:33 AM

Anyone been able to find goats cream? They sell goats milk at the farm and then cows heavy cream. Is it possible to make cream from goats milk?

68655ec9711d207d69a63ebf96b37573

on June 05, 2013
at 12:09 PM

In the UK, St Helen's farm do cream, butter and yoghurt from goat milk, but I only ever found the cream in Waitrose

1
E53b0077284e65caa59c8bc4daab1438

on June 04, 2013
at 06:37 PM

I eat very aged cheese, preferably grass-fed, such as Kerrygold Reserve Cheddar. If the cheese is very aged (parmesan, Aged Gouda, sharp cheddar, etc.) it usually doesn't have any lactose left.

1
66d99cd663b65defc9704f59cbe70f9b

on June 04, 2013
at 05:52 PM

I just tried your yogurt for the first time (maple ginger - delicious!!), and my dream would be an agave-free version. You can search this forum for info on agave, if you'd like...nothing I could say here would add anything to the conversation, but it's definitely something I try to steer clear of. I realize that yogurt isn't "paleo", per se, but I do enjoy some dairy - especially when I can find something yummy and grass-fed! Very happy and surprised to find you on here. The fact that you are even asking this question scores you major points in my book. Cheers!

1
Cefa63612314a4f233ba45400c0ebd51

(10)

on December 15, 2012
at 06:50 AM

I think all dairy products should come from grass fed ruminants. I also dont like synthetic hormones and antibiotcs in my food.

1
4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on December 15, 2012
at 06:00 AM

Affordable grass fed cheese. And better access to raw milk.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 17, 2012
at 02:06 PM

Can you define what you define as affordable per lb of cheese?

4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on December 17, 2012
at 09:09 PM

That is an interesting question. Trader Joe's sells grass fed New Zealand aged cheese for around $6 per pound, which is what I buy and find reasonable. I havent seen a good cost comparison with a grass fed dairy and whey fed pork operation, which I think is more sustainable.

1
7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2040)

on December 15, 2012
at 04:28 AM

Raw half and half milk kefir.

1
7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on December 14, 2012
at 07:35 PM

I can't tolerate dairy (I have celiac disease). I would like to test out whether gluten is somehow getting into the milk. It can get through to the milk in humans, but bovines have a different digestive tract, and I haven't seen studies showing whether it does or doesn't in cows.

In an attempt to test to see if I can tolerate dairy from cows who don't eat any gluten, I've asked around to local farmers to see if I can get some milk from cows that are 100% grass fed. I've been told that's not possible, because during the summer they eat grass, but there's no guarantee of when that is, and there's always the possibility that a sick cow will be eating grain, or that the cows will be supplementing with grain for any other number of reasons.

So, I would like to (1) see research on whether allergenic proteins can get through to cow's milk, and (2) have access to guaranteed gluten-free fed cows.

1c6c73ae4819322bb9172fb8ac85747f

on December 16, 2012
at 03:23 AM

It's unlikely that gluten is getting into the milk, but it is fairly common for gluten intolerance to go hand in hand with dairy intolerance.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on December 16, 2012
at 04:13 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9867098 Scand J Gastroenterol. 1998 Nov;33(11):1186-92. Presence of high levels of non-degraded gliadin in breast milk from healthy mothers.

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on December 16, 2012
at 04:10 AM

"It can get through to the milk in humans, but bovines have a different digestive tract, and I haven't seen studies showing whether it does or doesn't in cows."

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on December 16, 2012
at 04:20 AM

"Gliadin was detected in all 49 milk samples. Its concentration varied between 5 and 1200 ng/ml (mean, 178 ng/ml)." So using humans as a rough approx. for cows (given lack of data in cows), then on average we'd get about 0.1 ppm gliadin, but some could have over 1 ppm. For those of us celiacs who get intestinal damage in the single digit ppm range, that's enough to cause a problem. And it could be the case that trace amounts of gluten make a casein reaction worse. It could also be the case that more gliadin gets through to the milk in cows: we just don't know unless it is tested.

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