6

votes

What dairy products cause insulin secretion?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created March 17, 2010 at 4:48 PM

I know milk is highly insulinogenic, and for some reason I want to say I heard cheese was as well from a Robb Wolf podcast. (Could have misheard that.)

So I would like to know on what level cheese is insulinogenic, and would butter be somewhat insulinogenic as well?

70d9359a2086e890a4c3bccb2ba8a8cb

(2254)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Why does cream have a higher GL than cheese?

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on February 18, 2013
at 09:34 AM

yes but insulinogenic means the body reads dairy as a sign for fuel storage and anabolism. thats why its raising insulin levels (an important part of anabolism, to get fuel inside cells) despite lack of blood glucose spike from dairy products

A49ad052f6f7cb7dfe39e9285e2263fb

(1205)

on March 23, 2010
at 04:23 AM

The butter's effect has nothing to do with anything other than the palmitic acid added to the carbohydrate bolus. A dose of palmitic without any butter at all would do the same thing via the effects on peripheral insulin sensitivity. Butter or cream by themselves or on non-starchy veggies as part of a typical VLC meal have trivial insulin response.

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 23, 2010
at 02:36 AM

Peter's rebut to Dr Davis is sound. Peter says butter for him.If you follow Dr Davis'recent posts, there is really nothing you can eat that does not trigger an insulin spike...be it butter or some other fat, protein, and carb. But the spike is not the same for everyone. Dr Davis does encourage us to buy a glucose meter to measure the after eating affects of eating various foods. If prior to eating, your glucose level is 100 and you spike to 130-150 or more, that food for you is insulinogenic.It varies by BMI, age and history of SAD. Food is insulinogenic but is different for each of us.

Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 22, 2010
at 11:24 AM

yes, I did wonder about this, but is the insulin response relationship between butter, cream, milk and cheese similar to the GL?

Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 22, 2010
at 11:24 AM

yes, I did wonder about this, but is the insulin response relationship between butter, cream, milk and cheese similar?

5ebeec76e20738d0a17cd724d64b1e0f

(1922)

on March 22, 2010
at 08:14 AM

GL is not the same as insulin response--and butter does cause insulin to be released. See: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-and-insulin.html and http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html

Be4b60059db3511771303de1613ecb67

(1137)

on March 19, 2010
at 08:07 PM

Oh, no problem. I understand now. :-) I've had Double Devon Cream (in a jar,) and it was very yummy!

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on March 19, 2010
at 06:09 PM

That said, if you already have impaired glucose tolerance, carbs may do some damage. If you are healthy now (eat a boiled potato and check your blood sugar a bit later; if it's less than 100, you're very healthy), I don't think you will get unhealthy eating starch or insulinogenic protein. You can disagree but you will have to provide actual evidence...

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on March 19, 2010
at 06:03 PM

There is a ton of evidence... Read Taubes... Punt on answering question... :) I actually have read Taubes and a great deal on the subject of nutrition. I asked the question because I already know the answer - there is NO evidence that insulinogenic foods or high glycemic foods cause disease in healthy people. Diabetes is not an overuse disorder! It is caused by damage to the liver and pancreas, probably medidaed by excess n-6 PUFA consumption and excess fructose consumption. Think Kitava... Think Asia, Peru, etc. Glucose and insulinogenic proteins do not break metabolisms.

95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on March 19, 2010
at 11:59 AM

The point is that insulinogenic foods, consumed in quantity over time, won't keep you healthy. There's tons of evidence showing that a "healthy" person who chronically overconsumes insulinogenic foods is at high risk for the so-called diseases of civilization. Read Taubes! But that said, will one glass of milk give you heart disease? Of course not.

95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on March 19, 2010
at 11:56 AM

You're asking a simplistic question. A healthy person drinking a glass of milk this morning will not suddenly get hit with a chronic disease. A once-healthy person who drank 2 liters of milk a day for 20 years and is now on the ragged edge of type 2 diabetes will make an incremental improvement to their health by drinking water instead of that glass of milk this morning, but that single increment will probably be too small to measure. But there's lots of evidence (read Taubes!) that chronic overconsumption of insulinogenic foods leads to disease eventually.

Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 19, 2010
at 11:36 AM

hi Suzan, I am english, we don't have half and half cream in UK, I assumed that was like the single cream we have in the UK, we have double (whipping) and single (pouring) cram here - sorry for the confusion!!!

Be4b60059db3511771303de1613ecb67

(1137)

on March 19, 2010
at 12:31 AM

The Glycemic load of heavy whipping cream is 0.

Be4b60059db3511771303de1613ecb67

(1137)

on March 19, 2010
at 12:28 AM

Well, half and half is not cream. It is half cream and half milk. So what is the glycemic load of 100% cream? I'll go look it up.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 18, 2010
at 10:07 PM

didn't we all start out healthy?

Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 18, 2010
at 07:16 PM

@archaea That is an interesting question - I really do not know enough about the cheesemaking process to be able to say, I would assume that somewhere down the line most of the carbs are lost, perhaps the cheese culture eats them? @Anna and ice cream (rich vanilla) has a glycemic load of 11! Let's stick with the butter.....

5ad1c5e83d71e9d83942df6c6f0c4b6a

on March 18, 2010
at 04:02 PM

Thank you for the link, but I have read Dr. Kurt's numerous articles multiple times each, including this one.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 18, 2010
at 01:36 AM

Happy as a pig in sh*t about the butter Louisa!

245c53790116339bcc79fb789f6f9c9d

(744)

on March 17, 2010
at 08:39 PM

you beat me to it! I was going to post this link too: http://books.google.com/books?id=3okWfQykQHoC&lpg=PA68&ots=rZLHgCLNuX&dq=dairy%20insulinogenic&pg=PA68#v=onepage&q=dairy%20insulinogenic&f=false

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9 Answers

best answer

6
A49ad052f6f7cb7dfe39e9285e2263fb

on March 18, 2010
at 08:26 PM

It's two things

Lactose and Casein. Casein is more insulinogenic than other kinds of protein, but not more so than glucose or lactose AFAIK.

The GI could be zero but if it is full of casein (like cheese) there is an insulin response.

245c53790116339bcc79fb789f6f9c9d

(744)

on March 17, 2010
at 08:39 PM

you beat me to it! I was going to post this link too: http://books.google.com/books?id=3okWfQykQHoC&lpg=PA68&ots=rZLHgCLNuX&dq=dairy%20insulinogenic&pg=PA68#v=onepage&q=dairy%20insulinogenic&f=false

5ad1c5e83d71e9d83942df6c6f0c4b6a

on March 18, 2010
at 04:02 PM

Thank you for the link, but I have read Dr. Kurt's numerous articles multiple times each, including this one.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on February 18, 2013
at 09:34 AM

yes but insulinogenic means the body reads dairy as a sign for fuel storage and anabolism. thats why its raising insulin levels (an important part of anabolism, to get fuel inside cells) despite lack of blood glucose spike from dairy products

4
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on March 22, 2010
at 07:36 PM

The casein, being a protein will be somewhat insulinemic, but the real worry on that front is the whey, which is substantially more insulinemic. The lactose, being a sugar, is obviously also a worry.

Milk (the lower fat the worse), whey protein or whey products (like ricotta) would be the worse. Fermented milk like yoghurt is better because the lactose is broken down. Cheese would have the lactose and whey removed so that would be better. Butter and cream have the lactose, whey and (most of the) casein removed so they'll be about as non-insulinemic a calorie source as you can get. Greek yoghurt (such as Fage) has the whey strained off, so that will be better than standard yoghurt.

Butter/cream and insulin specifically have been discussed recently by Dr Davis. While his line of reasoning certainly applies to dairy in general, I don't think the study he cites bears out the argument that there's anything especially harmful in cream or butter, since the increase in insulin, compared to olive oil is miniscule (and it's far, far less than for casein). If one weren't trying to find a reason to explain why butter/atkins = suboptimal, I don't think any-one would be moved by the slightly more insulinemic nature of butter shown. Peter at hyperlip gives a good breakdown: long story short, butter is far less insulinemic than dairy protein and superior even to other fats.

4
97af1caf30f029165abc783a20349c9f

(510)

on March 19, 2010
at 12:24 PM

I never trust those GL response numbers. I??m very insulin sensitive and can??t eat any kind of dairy - except ghee. It would end in a carblike binge even with butter. One can??t imagine how much hard cheese someone can swallow. In my experience binge eating without hunger is always insulinogenic.

3
245c53790116339bcc79fb789f6f9c9d

(744)

on March 17, 2010
at 08:49 PM

also, this previous post reaffirms that cheese is insulinogenic.

3
Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 17, 2010
at 07:59 PM

Looking on the Nutrition Data site and if the glycemic load really does indicate how much insulin a food produces in the body then you are right about the milk, but the same amount of cheese is less so:

100 grams of whole milk (3.25% milk fat) has an estimated glycemic load of 4.

100 grams of cream (half and half) has an estimated glycemic load of 3.

100 grams of cheddar cheese (hard) has an estimated glycemic load of 1.

100 grams of goats cheese (soft) has an estimated glycemic load of 1.

100 grams of butter (with or without salt) has an estimated glycemic load of 0.

ADDITION: 100 grams of heavy whipping cream has an estimated glycemic load of 0.

100 grams of soured, cultured cream (a.k.a. creme fraiche) cream has an estimated glycemic load of 2.

edit: but judging from the other answers and comments here, the GL of food is not the best thing to refer to in the case of insulinogenic factors.

Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 22, 2010
at 11:24 AM

yes, I did wonder about this, but is the insulin response relationship between butter, cream, milk and cheese similar?

Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 19, 2010
at 11:36 AM

hi Suzan, I am english, we don't have half and half cream in UK, I assumed that was like the single cream we have in the UK, we have double (whipping) and single (pouring) cram here - sorry for the confusion!!!

Be4b60059db3511771303de1613ecb67

(1137)

on March 19, 2010
at 12:31 AM

The Glycemic load of heavy whipping cream is 0.

Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 22, 2010
at 11:24 AM

yes, I did wonder about this, but is the insulin response relationship between butter, cream, milk and cheese similar to the GL?

5ebeec76e20738d0a17cd724d64b1e0f

(1922)

on March 22, 2010
at 08:14 AM

GL is not the same as insulin response--and butter does cause insulin to be released. See: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-and-insulin.html and http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html

Be4b60059db3511771303de1613ecb67

(1137)

on March 19, 2010
at 08:07 PM

Oh, no problem. I understand now. :-) I've had Double Devon Cream (in a jar,) and it was very yummy!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 18, 2010
at 01:36 AM

Happy as a pig in sh*t about the butter Louisa!

Be4b60059db3511771303de1613ecb67

(1137)

on March 19, 2010
at 12:28 AM

Well, half and half is not cream. It is half cream and half milk. So what is the glycemic load of 100% cream? I'll go look it up.

70d9359a2086e890a4c3bccb2ba8a8cb

(2254)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Why does cream have a higher GL than cheese?

Medium avatar

(7073)

on March 18, 2010
at 07:16 PM

@archaea That is an interesting question - I really do not know enough about the cheesemaking process to be able to say, I would assume that somewhere down the line most of the carbs are lost, perhaps the cheese culture eats them? @Anna and ice cream (rich vanilla) has a glycemic load of 11! Let's stick with the butter.....

2
5ebeec76e20738d0a17cd724d64b1e0f

on March 22, 2010
at 08:17 AM

Butter and cheese are insulinogenic, as is anything that contains significant protein. See Dr Davis' recent post:

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-and-insulin.html

Peter at Hyperlipid's response is equally enlightening:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html

06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on March 23, 2010
at 02:36 AM

Peter's rebut to Dr Davis is sound. Peter says butter for him.If you follow Dr Davis'recent posts, there is really nothing you can eat that does not trigger an insulin spike...be it butter or some other fat, protein, and carb. But the spike is not the same for everyone. Dr Davis does encourage us to buy a glucose meter to measure the after eating affects of eating various foods. If prior to eating, your glucose level is 100 and you spike to 130-150 or more, that food for you is insulinogenic.It varies by BMI, age and history of SAD. Food is insulinogenic but is different for each of us.

A49ad052f6f7cb7dfe39e9285e2263fb

(1205)

on March 23, 2010
at 04:23 AM

The butter's effect has nothing to do with anything other than the palmitic acid added to the carbohydrate bolus. A dose of palmitic without any butter at all would do the same thing via the effects on peripheral insulin sensitivity. Butter or cream by themselves or on non-starchy veggies as part of a typical VLC meal have trivial insulin response.

1
15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on March 18, 2010
at 09:13 PM

Can anybody here provide any evidence that insulinogenic foods when consumed by healthy people lead to disease?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 18, 2010
at 10:07 PM

didn't we all start out healthy?

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on March 19, 2010
at 06:09 PM

That said, if you already have impaired glucose tolerance, carbs may do some damage. If you are healthy now (eat a boiled potato and check your blood sugar a bit later; if it's less than 100, you're very healthy), I don't think you will get unhealthy eating starch or insulinogenic protein. You can disagree but you will have to provide actual evidence...

15d23403fb836f2b506f4f3ad2c03356

(1219)

on March 19, 2010
at 06:03 PM

There is a ton of evidence... Read Taubes... Punt on answering question... :) I actually have read Taubes and a great deal on the subject of nutrition. I asked the question because I already know the answer - there is NO evidence that insulinogenic foods or high glycemic foods cause disease in healthy people. Diabetes is not an overuse disorder! It is caused by damage to the liver and pancreas, probably medidaed by excess n-6 PUFA consumption and excess fructose consumption. Think Kitava... Think Asia, Peru, etc. Glucose and insulinogenic proteins do not break metabolisms.

95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on March 19, 2010
at 11:59 AM

The point is that insulinogenic foods, consumed in quantity over time, won't keep you healthy. There's tons of evidence showing that a "healthy" person who chronically overconsumes insulinogenic foods is at high risk for the so-called diseases of civilization. Read Taubes! But that said, will one glass of milk give you heart disease? Of course not.

95ab15c8ef50ff0daf87ccbdd52cd3b8

(2384)

on March 19, 2010
at 11:56 AM

You're asking a simplistic question. A healthy person drinking a glass of milk this morning will not suddenly get hit with a chronic disease. A once-healthy person who drank 2 liters of milk a day for 20 years and is now on the ragged edge of type 2 diabetes will make an incremental improvement to their health by drinking water instead of that glass of milk this morning, but that single increment will probably be too small to measure. But there's lots of evidence (read Taubes!) that chronic overconsumption of insulinogenic foods leads to disease eventually.

0
A1ae6a36ca0f4210882603e1255ea42d

on March 17, 2010
at 08:30 PM

Anybody have any insight on the insulin effect of greek yogurt? I am assuming it is in the vicinity of soft goat's cheese...

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