5

votes

How do you respond when told "you need dairy"?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created July 10, 2012 at 11:45 PM

Just interested in your responses. I give a long facepalm and explain that calcium is abundant in green leafy vegetables, as well as some fruits/nuts, and I'd rather get my calcium without lactose, casein, and hormones in the mixture

Their latest response to that is "THERES NOT ENOUGH CALCIUM IN VEGETABLES U N33D DAAARY" "NOT ENUF." "YUR BONEZZZZ", so I just tell them we've only been consuming dairy for the past 10,000 years, and ask how we survived before that.

That doesn't work so well on the young earth creationists though.

B8592e62f9804ddabae73c1103d6bcb9

(1956)

on July 27, 2012
at 01:15 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727 and http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2 are good starts.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 27, 2012
at 07:00 AM

Could I ask what your your reference is for K2 increasing calcium absorption five fold? I would really like to read up on that since calcium/bone health is a big interest of mine.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on July 17, 2012
at 06:39 AM

Nice response Hot Lava!

239bcbf6d0013fd74890f5c7305daf64

(664)

on July 11, 2012
at 11:59 PM

I also added that response to a conversation I was having with my mother. +1!

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on July 11, 2012
at 08:15 PM

Very nice.............

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on July 11, 2012
at 06:40 PM

Even whole grocery store milk is pretty processed (though I do drink the organic stuff myself when I can't afford $6/gallon for the raw). On a lot of the labels, you'll see that it contains "milk and skim milk" because they add the skim crud back into the regular stuff, not even counting the pasteurization and homogenization and all that. Go raw if you can! So many more nutrients, and live enzymes to help you break down that lactose.

58c33847c5b7ecbf6572075df2cdd002

(866)

on July 11, 2012
at 04:52 PM

Yep...I agree. I *do* need dairy. Because it is delicious and I love it and I do not seem to have any ill effects from it. But I only consume grass-fed raw dairy...no one needs commercial dairy.

58c33847c5b7ecbf6572075df2cdd002

(866)

on July 11, 2012
at 04:51 PM

+1 for giving the exact response I was going to give.

4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on July 11, 2012
at 02:47 AM

I think I tried that diet for a while, except it was beer and skittles (never was much of a whiskey drinker). It was the Skïttlebrau diet.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 11, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Kris, the only study your link cited that critically reviewed the effects of dairy on bone health had this to say: "Of 57 outcomes of the effects of dairy foods on bone health, 53% were not significant, 42% were favorable, and 5% were unfavorable. Of 21 stronger-evidence studies, 57% were not significant, 29% were favorable, and 14% were unfavorable". It appears that dairy isn't so much a terrible source of calcium, but that it just isn't a uniquely beneficial one.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on July 11, 2012
at 02:23 AM

Most fish is a good source of calcium.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:45 AM

Skim milk is a serious processed product. All those lovely vitamins we're talking about that dairy products contain? Yeah, they're largely fat soluble - so when you remove the fat, you remove the vitamins. In the case of skim milk, lab synthesized vitamins are then added back, to give the appearance of being healthy. If you're going to consume dairy, go for butter, cheese, cream, whole milk if you tolerate it, not processed junk.

E45c5a1c8df73da5e03bb6e7e90f8420

(644)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:43 AM

Except that food isn't so simply as it has this nutrient so it is a good source- much of the calcium in milk is not absorbed- milk consumption has actually been shown to decrease calcium stores in bones- This is a very clear description of why dairy is actually a terrible source to rely on for calcium- http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/osteoarthritis-are-dairy-products-the-answer-to-osteoporosis.html

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:11 AM

C'mon, I'm no fan of skim milk, but comparing it calorically to soda is just disingenuous (and I suspect not even mathematically correct).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:05 AM

Oh no you read the New York Times? I guess i should have not wished you luck on your date and let natural selection do its dirty work. LOL. Just messing around. You're all good dude.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:05 AM

Oh no you read the New York Times? I guess i should have not wished you luck on your date and let natural selection do its work. LOL. Just messing around.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 11, 2012
at 12:56 AM

CJ-Spinach does have poorly absorbable calcium, but it's really more of the exception in regards to leafy greens. Kale, and to a lesser extent other leafy greens, stand right up there with milk in regards to calcium absorption: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2321572

6b365c14c646462210f3ef6b6fecace1

(1784)

on July 11, 2012
at 12:33 AM

I agree with CJ. Dairy is just a really convenient and efficient source of calcium among other nutrients/minerals. I personally don't have anything against dairy. it's still considered a whole food in my book. Unless you have MAJOR issues with it, i see no reason to avoid it. minor ones can usually be resolved over time as your body learns how to deal with it. As for the hormones issue - naturally occurring hormones are present in your meat/ poultry as well, no matter what your source is.

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 11, 2012
at 12:29 AM

"Hell, if all I consumed was skittles and Jack Daniels I wouldn't be compelled to have to defend myself.." How true! People automatically think that anyone outside of the box is "wrong".

Bece741db5f5fed6bafa12e3548f973f

(715)

on July 11, 2012
at 12:13 AM

How much spinach do you want to eat...."Humans only absorb about five percent, or 12 out of 244 milligrams, of the calcium present in a cup of cooked spinach. On the other hand, about 100 of the 300 milligrams present in milk is absorbed." Parmesan cheese on the other hand has lots of calcium, and you only need a little bit. Cheese isn't a problem for many lactose intolerant people because the lactose is broken down in the process. Just a thought.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 10, 2012
at 11:48 PM

"You may need it, but I don't."

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13 Answers

9
7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

on July 10, 2012
at 11:55 PM

You could cite this recent post from the New York Times

'Osteoporosis? You don???t need milk, or large amounts of calcium, for bone integrity. In fact, the rate of fractures is highest in milk-drinking countries, and it turns out that the keys to bone strength are lifelong exercise and vitamin D, which you can get from sunshine.'

'Sugar ??? in the form of lactose ??? contributes about 55 percent of skim milk???s calories, giving it ounce for ounce the same calorie load as soda.'

'This in a country where as many as 50 million people are lactose intolerant, including 90 percent of all Asian-Americans and 75 percent of all African-Americans, Mexican-Americans and Jews'

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/07/got-milk-you-dont-need-it/

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:05 AM

Oh no you read the New York Times? I guess i should have not wished you luck on your date and let natural selection do its work. LOL. Just messing around.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10480)

on July 11, 2012
at 06:40 PM

Even whole grocery store milk is pretty processed (though I do drink the organic stuff myself when I can't afford $6/gallon for the raw). On a lot of the labels, you'll see that it contains "milk and skim milk" because they add the skim crud back into the regular stuff, not even counting the pasteurization and homogenization and all that. Go raw if you can! So many more nutrients, and live enzymes to help you break down that lactose.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:05 AM

Oh no you read the New York Times? I guess i should have not wished you luck on your date and let natural selection do its dirty work. LOL. Just messing around. You're all good dude.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:45 AM

Skim milk is a serious processed product. All those lovely vitamins we're talking about that dairy products contain? Yeah, they're largely fat soluble - so when you remove the fat, you remove the vitamins. In the case of skim milk, lab synthesized vitamins are then added back, to give the appearance of being healthy. If you're going to consume dairy, go for butter, cheese, cream, whole milk if you tolerate it, not processed junk.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:11 AM

C'mon, I'm no fan of skim milk, but comparing it calorically to soda is just disingenuous (and I suspect not even mathematically correct).

7
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 10, 2012
at 11:52 PM

I don't explain myself to anyone. Hell, if all I consumed was skittles and Jack Daniels I wouldn't be compelled to have to defend myself.....

If someone is truly interested I guess thats a different story.

F31d10b54b31428e189d9b771bf7b1d1

(1439)

on July 11, 2012
at 12:29 AM

"Hell, if all I consumed was skittles and Jack Daniels I wouldn't be compelled to have to defend myself.." How true! People automatically think that anyone outside of the box is "wrong".

4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on July 11, 2012
at 02:47 AM

I think I tried that diet for a while, except it was beer and skittles (never was much of a whiskey drinker). It was the Skïttlebrau diet.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on July 11, 2012
at 08:15 PM

Very nice.............

6
C0d44d0c62dcf60e8a80ae21411ddeb9

(370)

on July 11, 2012
at 02:38 AM

There are plenty of healthy strong-boned animals out there who never drink milk in adulthood and never, ever from another species. Like, um.. all of them.

239bcbf6d0013fd74890f5c7305daf64

(664)

on July 11, 2012
at 11:59 PM

I also added that response to a conversation I was having with my mother. +1!

58c33847c5b7ecbf6572075df2cdd002

(866)

on July 11, 2012
at 04:51 PM

+1 for giving the exact response I was going to give.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on July 17, 2012
at 06:39 AM

Nice response Hot Lava!

5
E12ead3bf63c94b5b619b03722ef554f

on July 11, 2012
at 09:24 AM

I explain that dairy is not necessarily good for everyone (insulinogenic properties + hormones + lactose + casein).

I explain that many people have strong bones without dairy.

I explain that there are other sources of calcium besides dairy.

I explain that you don't need as much calcium if your diet is lower in toxins and antinutrients.

I explain that there is more to bone health than dairy (vitamin D, vitamin K2, magnesium, weight-bearing exercises.

The book Vitamin K2 and the calcium paradox is great!

5
239bcbf6d0013fd74890f5c7305daf64

on July 11, 2012
at 01:00 AM

I recently got this question from my family members (extended ones) and I responded with a question. What makes dairy good for you? Their answer is always, vitamin D and other important nutrients. Then I ask them, well, where does the milk get those from? The answer is always, well the milk has been fortified with them. then my final question is always...OK, so if milk is so good for you then why do they need to add stuff to it? Leaves em stumped every time.

4
68294383ced9a0eafc16133aa80d1905

(5795)

on July 10, 2012
at 11:54 PM

Ask them to "define dairy."

Some might mention milk. Others might say butter. Undoubtedly someone mentions eggs. I'll usually just chuckle and walk away. Eggs...

2
C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 11, 2012
at 01:21 AM

Getting rid of grains with phytic acid will help your calcium levels more than anything. Some are more tolerant to dairy than others. I use pastured organic hormone free heavy cream in my coffee and for desserts, but I have no problem with it. I also do aged cheeses.

2
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on July 11, 2012
at 12:10 AM

I personally do need dairy, otherwise my teeth complain. But not any type of dairy. It must be only from goat/sheep/buffalo (more compatible casein to that of normal cows), and it must be fermented (goat kefir is godsend for health).

1
Ddfdaa75ac9f47e01fc71162dd0d38dc

on July 11, 2012
at 02:46 PM

I agree with them. Grass-fed butter is essential and delicious. Yum.

58c33847c5b7ecbf6572075df2cdd002

(866)

on July 11, 2012
at 04:52 PM

Yep...I agree. I *do* need dairy. Because it is delicious and I love it and I do not seem to have any ill effects from it. But I only consume grass-fed raw dairy...no one needs commercial dairy.

1
B8592e62f9804ddabae73c1103d6bcb9

(1956)

on July 11, 2012
at 12:51 PM

Also vitamin K2 is very important, it's found in grass-fed animal fats and dairy (like kerrygold butter), pastured egg yolks. Weston Price called it 'Activator X'.

K2 can five fold increase calcium absorption, and also helps the calcium get into the teeth and bones (which means you'll only need to eat 200mg calcium, not the RDA of >1000mg! for a start).

Supplementing vitamin D without K2 can lead to calcification of the arteries causing heart attacks.

The article really explains the science of K2 and why it's so vital: http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2

Also this book is incredible: http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727

My mother has bone issues and I gave her supplemental K2 as MK-7, thorne brand, and she is doing very well taking 1mg (1 drop) per day.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 27, 2012
at 07:00 AM

Could I ask what your your reference is for K2 increasing calcium absorption five fold? I would really like to read up on that since calcium/bone health is a big interest of mine.

B8592e62f9804ddabae73c1103d6bcb9

(1956)

on July 27, 2012
at 01:15 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/1118065727 and http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2 are good starts.

1
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on July 11, 2012
at 11:07 AM

Who is telling you? A doctor, or some random schmoe on the street?

One view is that digesting milk as an adult is a relatively recent evolutionary adaptation (within the last few thousand years) and many people / cultures don't have it. Milk does not factor into many Asian diets for example. You can get all of the nutrients you need from other sources.

The whole thing about milk being the "perfect food" is just a product of big agra marketing.

0
C0237fd9e277fcef496d538beda1f35b

(287)

on July 11, 2012
at 02:40 PM

I found an almond-coconut blend milk that i put in my smoothies. it's higher in calcium than standard milk.

0
A7e67ce8d8ff86449913488199b4ac11

on July 11, 2012
at 02:08 PM

Just as Grok would say "Milk, what milk? Me no drink milk!" He didn't need milk and niether do alot of other cultures around the world today. You can find a decent amount of calcuim in some cooked kale (about 94mg per cup), which is where I like to get some of my calcium from. As far as Vitamin D goes, I like to drink a nice glass of daily sunshine everyday, so I feel I'm good there. Not a super educated response, I know, but enough to keep me convinced!

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