1

votes

Has anyone overcome a sensitivity to dairy?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 23, 2011 at 4:55 PM

Seems like my sensitivity to dairy is in direct inverse proprotion to how much I like a particular cheese. :(

My stomach isn't crazy about cream. I get a strange sensation in my arms when I eat the hard cheeses I love like parmesan, even if from raw milk. When I used to eat dairy regularly, I'd always have small bumps on either temple. Now the bumps are gone, but if I overdo the dairy, they're back. Go figure.

So has anyone overcome this, either through GAPS or by eating a small amount of yogurt daily a la Dr. Art Ayers or throug any other method.

I'd love to have more cheese in my life, but too much doesn't do me good.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on November 22, 2011
at 05:12 PM

I did 30 day elimination then slowly started reintroducing them with success. http://paleohacks.com/questions/40047/gluten-and-casein-cross-reactions-successful-reintroduction-of-dairy#axzz1eSGwECi0

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6244)

on November 22, 2011
at 05:11 PM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/40047/gluten-and-casein-cross-reactions-successful-reintroduction-of-dairy#axzz1eSGwECi0

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 22, 2011
at 09:48 PM

thanks for the info, i'm checking it out.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:36 PM

or cream - believe me, I would. Think I'd throw a party.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:34 PM

I'm having a harder time finding exact numbers, sorry. But if you don't react to butter, yogurt or cream, more power to you. They appear to be on the lower end of the yeast count spectrum, so if you're not as sensitive as someone like myself, then sure - you can probably manage it. Personally I cut out all dairy except butter and yogurt, then got rid of yogurt, and was still not feeling well enough with butter to justify continuing with it. Perhaps it's because I was using mostly cultured butter but I doubt it. I'm probably a super-responder. If I could get away with eating butter, yogurt

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:28 PM

butter, cooking butter and kareish cheese were Candida spp., Rhodotorula spp., and Saccharomyces spp." / "Yeasts were isolated, identified and enumerated from 161 samples of retail dairy products. Highest yeast populations (up to 106–107 cells/g) were found in yogurt and cheese samples while lower counts occurred in samples of pasteurized milk, cream, butter and ice cream. Candida famata, Kluyveromyces marxianus, Candida diffluens and Rhodotorula glutinis were the most frequency isolated species."

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:27 PM

"The mean total mould counts were 7.3X 101 ± 6X101, 1.8 X103 ± 5.4X 102 and 4.1X 103 ±3.1 X 103 cfu ml-1 for table butter, cooking butter and kareish cheese samples respectively. Respective yeast counts were 1 X103 ± 6.1 X 102, 3.3 X 104 ±3 X 104 and 1.5 X 104 ± 1.3 X 104 cfu ml-1. The highest frequency distribution of all examined samples for mould and yeast counts lies within the range 10 -100 / gm . Aspergillus niger , A. flavus , Geotrichum spp. and Mucor spp. were isolated from the examined samples at varying percentages of 8.3- 41.7 . The predominant species of yeasts isolated from table

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:26 PM

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0168160587900213 http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:0zYoZdibYRMJ:www.acgssr.org/BioTechnology/Volume12N1January2009_files/Full_Paper/005.pdf+yeast+counts+butter&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgbQovEFwK1InHNu-Vc2wztA5CN5ejM6Rks3o7BnX8OT466LO27ONG92TDhm8aWVxgSbEoEYwKXJOZsJPXU2nw-NNERof8V8_sMalohDTkyEehUbBgpNvcbgxeWPuQRzADAKyZJ&sig=AHIEtbQEhN73Mz_dE89dhQjuIZeiiZj35w http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ryKp4agM9x0J:www.pakbs.org/pjbot/PDFs/38%283%29/PJB38%283%29859.pdf+%22yeast+counts%22+%2B%22dairy+products%22&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srci

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 22, 2011
at 03:37 AM

i'm having trouble with the contention that butter contains significant amt of yeast. Can you point me to some more info on that? I'm pretty sensitive to cheese and even kefir (but not yogurt), but i've had no symptoms from butter or cream.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 21, 2011
at 05:01 PM

Also, as far as yeasty cakes and breads - I think that with our newfangled quick-rising methods, there isn't a ton of yeast in those breads in actuality, so I have found that I have only a mild reaction to your typical bread product. However, something more traditionally fermented (ironically, the less detrimental type of grain product) would seem to be much more loaded with dead yeast cells and when I've cheated with sourdough the results have been significantly worse. I think it's all a matter of degrees, especially when yeast is freakin' everywhere...

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 21, 2011
at 04:56 PM

Yes, parmigiano cheese is definitely an absolute no-no for me now. Really, any dairy except in minute amounts has become off-limits. And I feel your pain, totally. I went through a period of pretty intense grieving that was worse than when I gave up sweets years ago - if I couldn't have sweetness, I could relish deliciously carb-free dairy, right? Go all Dr. Harris and drink a cup of whipping cream and not miss ice cream? Going low-carb made dairy a huge crutch - one that I thoroughly enjoyed... paleo is admittedly much tougher now. Especially the fact that even _butter_ has tons of yeast...

Medium avatar

(3024)

on July 21, 2011
at 07:30 AM

Wow, I have to reread this and look into this more carefully. Two things make me think this is relevant for me: Parmigiano (which I love love love) is the worst cheese for me. Roquefort is also bad, but I can live without it, so I generally do. Also you mentioned "tingly limbs". Wow! That's what I get, and I don't think it's a common reaction to dairy. On the other hand, I had no problems with yeast cakes or breads back when I ate them. Any idea why that would be? Is there no glutamate reaction with bread yeast?

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 20, 2011
at 03:36 PM

to figure this out. At the time I was also taking food-grade hydrogen peroxide, oregano oil, raw garlic etc. and found that raw garlic was pretty much the ultimate yeast-killer. Now I'm afraid of how raw garlic may affect me, but when I quit coconut oil my yeast symptoms started to return until I was having 24-7 asthma, so I re-started taking a few drops of food-grade H202 every day again and the asthma/generalized symptoms went away. However, I'm still reactive if I decide to eat dairy.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 20, 2011
at 03:34 PM

Something like that, but I'm not entirely sure. When I eat something with straight-up MSG, like cheap Chinese takeout, I get a glutamate reaction that makes me feel comatose, whereas something with yeast will give me allergy-like symptoms like asthma, sneezing, etc. Then the glutamate reaction kicks in shortly after. So - I think there's a link, certainly, but yeast itself has its own set of issues. Originally I began with virgin coconut oil but after years of large, daily intakes of it I became intolerant of coconut oil (and salicylates in general). I had to do an elimination diet

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 20, 2011
at 05:08 AM

also curious about the "yeast-killing protocols" you used.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 20, 2011
at 05:04 AM

interesting! lemme get this straight - you're saying you think your problem with yeast is ultimately a glutamate intolerance?

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 20, 2011
at 05:04 AM

interesting! lemme get this straight - you're saying you think your problem with yeast is a ultimately glutamate intolerance?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 10, 2011
at 08:13 PM

Figure out what to avoid and simply avoid it at all costs. We don't tell celiacs to eat small amounts of gluten to "beat" celiac disease.

Medium avatar

(3024)

on July 08, 2011
at 04:17 AM

I do feel something a reaction with raw goats milk and yogurt - so both bovine and caprine. But beyond that, you're absolutely right. I have no idea. So my question to you, Matt, is, if I could pinpoint what the issue is, would that help me overcome it?

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 23, 2011
at 09:41 PM

you and your GD ice cream;)

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 23, 2011
at 09:40 PM

oh i love eggs. hardboiled, scrambled, over easy, raw - i love them all. But after years of tinkering with my diet and solving many things i would just still always get occasional zits. nothing extreme mind you. but still i'd get them and i just believe that thats your body pushing bad shit out, yknow? So, finally, maybe three months ago I figured i'd go full autoimmune protocol from Wolf's book. For me was just really nightshades and eggs. so i got rid of them and boom, not one zingle zit, i kid you not. We all different but i can't figure out anything else to believe in the face of my experi

Medium avatar

(3024)

on June 23, 2011
at 07:44 PM

So you just added a little day by day? I seem to be fine with yogurt and feta. Just certain types of cheese cause a reaction. So my prescription is a bit of gruyere every day? I can live with that!

Medium avatar

(3024)

on June 23, 2011
at 07:42 PM

I eat eggs most days for breakfast and feel fine. When I eat a hard cheese, I feel a particular sensation in my arms immediately. It's pretty clear.

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on June 23, 2011
at 06:45 PM

@ben61820 Ouch, I'd hate to have to leave eggs out of my diet. Love, love, love starting out the weekend with a giant omelette. My condolences. (unless you hated them to begin with! =D )

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 23, 2011
at 05:44 PM

What? Eggs? Intriguing. I've been thinking of taking them out because I believe they may be causing stomach issues. How long did it take to recover for you?

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 23, 2011
at 05:31 PM

I can comment that what I always thought was a dairy issue for me (zits) turns out to be wholly nightshade and egg-related. I eat cottage and yogurt daily now with zero issues. Sure yours is dairy-related?

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3 Answers

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 07, 2011
at 09:18 PM

It doesn't sound like you know what part of dairy your body doesn't agree with. Lactose intolerance? A true allergy? A1 Casein sensitivity? BCM7? Bovine vs caprine? Raw vs pasteurized? Lots of things to try! Even cheese cultures might be problematic.

Medium avatar

(3024)

on July 08, 2011
at 04:17 AM

I do feel something a reaction with raw goats milk and yogurt - so both bovine and caprine. But beyond that, you're absolutely right. I have no idea. So my question to you, Matt, is, if I could pinpoint what the issue is, would that help me overcome it?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 10, 2011
at 08:13 PM

Figure out what to avoid and simply avoid it at all costs. We don't tell celiacs to eat small amounts of gluten to "beat" celiac disease.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 23, 2011
at 06:32 PM

I have. Basically what I did was to start out with high fat dairy (Haagen-Dazs) but you can do cream or something else. Then I started drinking milk. I started out with just an ounce or two every day and increased that over a period of a few weeks.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 23, 2011
at 09:41 PM

you and your GD ice cream;)

Medium avatar

(3024)

on June 23, 2011
at 07:44 PM

So you just added a little day by day? I seem to be fine with yogurt and feta. Just certain types of cheese cause a reaction. So my prescription is a bit of gruyere every day? I can live with that!

0
7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

on July 20, 2011
at 04:50 AM

My guess is that you are sensitive to the yeast that is highly abundant in all dairy, especially so in cheese. The yeast content of dairy seems to be the missing piece in the mystery of why dairy is so potentially allergenic - it's not just lactose, casein etc. but the fact that the stuff is a yeast-magnet. I was trying to figure out my own sensitivity at one time and after relentless searching finally found a PDF online of a study in which the exact quantities of yeast in various dairy products were determined, and it was stunningly high in all products, but sky-high in cheese. Unfortunately I'm not finding it upon searching now, and will have to dig up an old flash drive to find the PDF I saved - but I swear the evidence is out there, albeit difficult to find. However, consider how readily dairy ferments and that fermentation tends to occur via yeast. Yeast would seem to be massively allergenic.

Cheese was the first culprit in my search - all I knew is I felt like hell afterwards with itchy bumps here and there; sneezing and nasal drainage; pink, glassy, itchy eyes with angioedema as well as nervous system issues including something similar to what you describe - tingly numbness, especially when sleeping (would wake up with painful numbness in my hands/arms etc.). I knew that I had a yeast intolerance and that my first breakthroughs in personal health included yeast-killing protocols (not to get all anti-candida cultish here, but it worked). Meanwhile I never ceased eating cheese, butter, yogurt... the supposedly safe dairy products. However the study I'd found indicated that higher fat content also meant higher yeast counts, aside from fermentation's yeast-proliferating-ness (and yogurt's beneficial bacteria do not beat out their yeasty competitors but sadly share the spoils). Seems counter-intuitive to me but what do I know.

Meanwhile, based on what I've pieced together and from my non-scientifically-educated understanding of the data, it sounds like yeast breaks down into glutamate - that lovely excitotoxic amino acid added to everything processed. Parmigian cheese is particularly loaded with free glutamate. Glutamate's the other mind-killer - aside from fear - that turns me into a semi-comatose, irritable zombie with numb, tingly limbs. To end, some quotes from my scientific source, Wikipedia:

"Parmigiano is also particularly high in glutamate, containing as much as 1.2 g of glutamate per 100 g of cheese, making it the naturally produced food with the second highest level of glutamate, after Roquefort cheese. The strong presence of glutamates explains the strong umami taste of Parmigiano."

"all inactive yeast contains a certain amount of free glutamic acid because when the yeast cells are killed the protein that comprises the cell walls begins to degrade, breaking down into the amino acids that originally formed it. Glutamic acid is a naturally occurring amino acid in all yeast cells, as well as in many vegetables, fungi and meats."

Anyway, to attempt to answer your question - my yeast, and therefore dairy, intolerance has not improved but rather worsened over time. In fact I think I might have managed to curb the onslaught of autoimmune issues when I first began ridding myself of yeast, but since I continued to think of butter and yogurt as health foods and availed myself of them daily, I eventually became highly intolerant. Sad state indeed... hope that helps.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 20, 2011
at 05:04 AM

interesting! lemme get this straight - you're saying you think your problem with yeast is a ultimately glutamate intolerance?

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 20, 2011
at 05:04 AM

interesting! lemme get this straight - you're saying you think your problem with yeast is ultimately a glutamate intolerance?

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 20, 2011
at 05:08 AM

also curious about the "yeast-killing protocols" you used.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 20, 2011
at 03:36 PM

to figure this out. At the time I was also taking food-grade hydrogen peroxide, oregano oil, raw garlic etc. and found that raw garlic was pretty much the ultimate yeast-killer. Now I'm afraid of how raw garlic may affect me, but when I quit coconut oil my yeast symptoms started to return until I was having 24-7 asthma, so I re-started taking a few drops of food-grade H202 every day again and the asthma/generalized symptoms went away. However, I'm still reactive if I decide to eat dairy.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 20, 2011
at 03:34 PM

Something like that, but I'm not entirely sure. When I eat something with straight-up MSG, like cheap Chinese takeout, I get a glutamate reaction that makes me feel comatose, whereas something with yeast will give me allergy-like symptoms like asthma, sneezing, etc. Then the glutamate reaction kicks in shortly after. So - I think there's a link, certainly, but yeast itself has its own set of issues. Originally I began with virgin coconut oil but after years of large, daily intakes of it I became intolerant of coconut oil (and salicylates in general). I had to do an elimination diet

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 21, 2011
at 05:01 PM

Also, as far as yeasty cakes and breads - I think that with our newfangled quick-rising methods, there isn't a ton of yeast in those breads in actuality, so I have found that I have only a mild reaction to your typical bread product. However, something more traditionally fermented (ironically, the less detrimental type of grain product) would seem to be much more loaded with dead yeast cells and when I've cheated with sourdough the results have been significantly worse. I think it's all a matter of degrees, especially when yeast is freakin' everywhere...

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 22, 2011
at 03:37 AM

i'm having trouble with the contention that butter contains significant amt of yeast. Can you point me to some more info on that? I'm pretty sensitive to cheese and even kefir (but not yogurt), but i've had no symptoms from butter or cream.

Medium avatar

(3024)

on July 21, 2011
at 07:30 AM

Wow, I have to reread this and look into this more carefully. Two things make me think this is relevant for me: Parmigiano (which I love love love) is the worst cheese for me. Roquefort is also bad, but I can live without it, so I generally do. Also you mentioned "tingly limbs". Wow! That's what I get, and I don't think it's a common reaction to dairy. On the other hand, I had no problems with yeast cakes or breads back when I ate them. Any idea why that would be? Is there no glutamate reaction with bread yeast?

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:27 PM

"The mean total mould counts were 7.3X 101 ± 6X101, 1.8 X103 ± 5.4X 102 and 4.1X 103 ±3.1 X 103 cfu ml-1 for table butter, cooking butter and kareish cheese samples respectively. Respective yeast counts were 1 X103 ± 6.1 X 102, 3.3 X 104 ±3 X 104 and 1.5 X 104 ± 1.3 X 104 cfu ml-1. The highest frequency distribution of all examined samples for mould and yeast counts lies within the range 10 -100 / gm . Aspergillus niger , A. flavus , Geotrichum spp. and Mucor spp. were isolated from the examined samples at varying percentages of 8.3- 41.7 . The predominant species of yeasts isolated from table

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 21, 2011
at 04:56 PM

Yes, parmigiano cheese is definitely an absolute no-no for me now. Really, any dairy except in minute amounts has become off-limits. And I feel your pain, totally. I went through a period of pretty intense grieving that was worse than when I gave up sweets years ago - if I couldn't have sweetness, I could relish deliciously carb-free dairy, right? Go all Dr. Harris and drink a cup of whipping cream and not miss ice cream? Going low-carb made dairy a huge crutch - one that I thoroughly enjoyed... paleo is admittedly much tougher now. Especially the fact that even _butter_ has tons of yeast...

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:36 PM

or cream - believe me, I would. Think I'd throw a party.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on July 22, 2011
at 09:48 PM

thanks for the info, i'm checking it out.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:26 PM

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0168160587900213 http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:0zYoZdibYRMJ:www.acgssr.org/BioTechnology/Volume12N1January2009_files/Full_Paper/005.pdf+yeast+counts+butter&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgbQovEFwK1InHNu-Vc2wztA5CN5ejM6Rks3o7BnX8OT466LO27ONG92TDhm8aWVxgSbEoEYwKXJOZsJPXU2nw-NNERof8V8_sMalohDTkyEehUbBgpNvcbgxeWPuQRzADAKyZJ&sig=AHIEtbQEhN73Mz_dE89dhQjuIZeiiZj35w http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ryKp4agM9x0J:www.pakbs.org/pjbot/PDFs/38%283%29/PJB38%283%29859.pdf+%22yeast+counts%22+%2B%22dairy+products%22&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srci

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:34 PM

I'm having a harder time finding exact numbers, sorry. But if you don't react to butter, yogurt or cream, more power to you. They appear to be on the lower end of the yeast count spectrum, so if you're not as sensitive as someone like myself, then sure - you can probably manage it. Personally I cut out all dairy except butter and yogurt, then got rid of yogurt, and was still not feeling well enough with butter to justify continuing with it. Perhaps it's because I was using mostly cultured butter but I doubt it. I'm probably a super-responder. If I could get away with eating butter, yogurt

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 22, 2011
at 04:28 PM

butter, cooking butter and kareish cheese were Candida spp., Rhodotorula spp., and Saccharomyces spp." / "Yeasts were isolated, identified and enumerated from 161 samples of retail dairy products. Highest yeast populations (up to 106–107 cells/g) were found in yogurt and cheese samples while lower counts occurred in samples of pasteurized milk, cream, butter and ice cream. Candida famata, Kluyveromyces marxianus, Candida diffluens and Rhodotorula glutinis were the most frequency isolated species."

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