4

votes

Does freezing raw dairy kill the good bacteria?

Commented on June 22, 2015
Created November 18, 2011 at 4:55 AM

What happens if making ice cream or the like with raw milk, heavy cream, etc. Does freezing raw dairy just makes the good bacteria dormant, which awaken when thawed or in the gut (at a warmer temperature)?

Could one make homemade frozen yogurt in the same manner?

1296f5fecd084f101d7c5fbe013f07eb

(1213)

on February 13, 2013
at 04:17 AM

With my raw cream, I've found that warming it up a bit after thawing will de-clump it. It does shorten the time before it starts to sour, but if you chill it quickly, it's usually not a big deal...and I freeze it in small, quickly usable portions anyway.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 20, 2011
at 07:50 PM

But it doesn't really have any effect on its healthfulness, more of a palattability issue.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 20, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Shari has it right. All the "good" bacteria folks are interested don't come directly from the cow (because milk is fairly sterile in the cow, for good reason if you think about it), but rather come from contamination, intended or unintended, after harvest.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on November 20, 2011
at 04:48 PM

First welcome Other tree! Looks like there's a bit of confusion going on here. Raw milk is beneficial in many ways but not due to bacterial influence. It must be fermented or cultures in some way to yield beneficial bacteria. The OP's question was initially only about raw milk and people are answering that question saying there are no beneficial bacteria in milk alone which is a correct statement. The second part mentions yogurt.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on November 20, 2011
at 02:21 PM

I wonder if people obsessed with "good bacteria" have ever heard of lactoferrin.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 18, 2011
at 08:28 PM

No, milk is more or less sterile in the udder. Of course, it's not 100% sterile, neither is conventionally pasteurized milk (which is why still spoils at room temperature). The udder is under the domain of the animal's immune system, bacteria are not welcome. It is not the digestive system, it's not a fermenting product. Milk is milk, if you want beneficial microorganisms in your food, culture it, ferment it.

6ec8d30130a6fb274871314533b5536b

(581)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:21 PM

This reasoning doesn't really make sense because bacteria exists everywhere, in everything...

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on November 18, 2011
at 04:48 PM

McGee on storage of milk:"Milk is highly perishable food.Even Grade A pasterized milk contains millions of bacteria in every glassful, and will spoil quickly unless refrigerated. Freezing is a bad idea because it distrups milk fat globules and protein particles, which clump and separate when thawed."

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on November 18, 2011
at 04:25 PM

incorrect, milk isnt sterile, one of the reasons drinking raw milk is the beneficial microbes anyway.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 18, 2011
at 02:33 PM

I've found that lactobacillus culture is touchy. Supermarket yogurt is iffy whether the culture is live or dead. So once I get a strong culture I use it. I scald the milk to kill any competing or toxic cultures (e coli would love yogurt-making conditions). This may denature milk protein, but the lactobacilli love it anyway.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 18, 2011
at 02:21 PM

Freezing cultures is ok, you do end up killing some of the culture off, but enough survives that you can use it again. Better to probably store cultures in the fridge, unfrozen.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 18, 2011
at 02:19 PM

Freezing milk is pretty common amongst home dairies to have milk in the off-season.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 18, 2011
at 01:02 PM

I store the milk in the freezer but not the yogurt. Does the lactobacilli culture survive freezing and make good yogurt starter?

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d

(1059)

on November 18, 2011
at 12:17 PM

Any chance you could share specifics?

Db4ad76f6f307a6f577e175710049172

(2297)

on November 18, 2011
at 10:02 AM

Seconding the "freezing doesn't kill any bacteria." In biotech, we freeze bacteria samples all the time, to use later. Freezing just halts their growth.

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on November 18, 2011
at 07:24 AM

Correction, it doenst kill any bacteria usually, it just slows down. When you defrost, bacteria multiply quickly, good and bad.

25b139cc1954456d9ea469e40f984cd3

on November 18, 2011
at 06:59 AM

Freezing does not kill most bacteria...

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5 Answers

4
Medium avatar

(3029)

on November 18, 2011
at 12:01 PM

When I make yogurt, I take off a few tablespoons to use to get the next batch going. I store it in the freezer, so I'm no pressured to make a new batch right away. The bacteria must still be there since it does work to make a new batch of yogurt.

I also freeze raw goats milk until I want to make cheese. It still clabbers etc.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 18, 2011
at 02:21 PM

Freezing cultures is ok, you do end up killing some of the culture off, but enough survives that you can use it again. Better to probably store cultures in the fridge, unfrozen.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 18, 2011
at 02:33 PM

I've found that lactobacillus culture is touchy. Supermarket yogurt is iffy whether the culture is live or dead. So once I get a strong culture I use it. I scald the milk to kill any competing or toxic cultures (e coli would love yogurt-making conditions). This may denature milk protein, but the lactobacilli love it anyway.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 18, 2011
at 01:02 PM

I store the milk in the freezer but not the yogurt. Does the lactobacilli culture survive freezing and make good yogurt starter?

3
44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:54 AM

You shouldnt freeze milk. There is an explenation in Mcgees "On Food and Cooking" on this.

2b2c2e4aa87e9aa4c99cae48e980f70d

(1059)

on November 18, 2011
at 12:17 PM

Any chance you could share specifics?

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on November 18, 2011
at 04:48 PM

McGee on storage of milk:"Milk is highly perishable food.Even Grade A pasterized milk contains millions of bacteria in every glassful, and will spoil quickly unless refrigerated. Freezing is a bad idea because it distrups milk fat globules and protein particles, which clump and separate when thawed."

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 18, 2011
at 02:19 PM

Freezing milk is pretty common amongst home dairies to have milk in the off-season.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 20, 2011
at 07:50 PM

But it doesn't really have any effect on its healthfulness, more of a palattability issue.

1296f5fecd084f101d7c5fbe013f07eb

(1213)

on February 13, 2013
at 04:17 AM

With my raw cream, I've found that warming it up a bit after thawing will de-clump it. It does shorten the time before it starts to sour, but if you chill it quickly, it's usually not a big deal...and I freeze it in small, quickly usable portions anyway.

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 18, 2011
at 11:41 AM

Dairy, raw or not, shouldn't have bacteria in it. Udders are not full of bacteria, it's more or less a sterile environment. Any bacteria in milk are a contamination occurring after harvesting the milk.

Freezing milk causes minimal damage to proteins, so microbes are not destroyed by freezing, nor are the milk proteins damaged (assuming that's what you're interested in for their perceived health benefits.)

401e73a0a9dd389eab8d3935a26cc250

(0)

on June 22, 2015
at 01:23 PM

Matt, healthy cows have a "gut flora" just as healthy people do. This flora is created by probiotic bacteria. It is present in raw sauekraut and any other vegatable that has been fermented, and raw milk.The reason pasteurization came about was because of the unsanitary condidtions at the dairy processor plus the mass production of the milk to "feed the many" made it necessary for storage purposes. Pasteurization and homogenization kill all bacteria including the good ones. A healthy probiotic environment will inhibit, or if the environment is extremely healthy, prohibit bad bacteria from growing. Our forests have this environment to some extent - bad bacteria have trouble growing in a healthy forest ecosystem. Udders are not a sterile environment, they are teeming with probiotics, assuming the cow is healthy and not fed low quality feed and is allowed to graze etc. Nature taakes care of itself Matt - assuming man does not intervene for the almight buck.

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on November 18, 2011
at 04:25 PM

incorrect, milk isnt sterile, one of the reasons drinking raw milk is the beneficial microbes anyway.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 18, 2011
at 08:28 PM

No, milk is more or less sterile in the udder. Of course, it's not 100% sterile, neither is conventionally pasteurized milk (which is why still spoils at room temperature). The udder is under the domain of the animal's immune system, bacteria are not welcome. It is not the digestive system, it's not a fermenting product. Milk is milk, if you want beneficial microorganisms in your food, culture it, ferment it.

6ec8d30130a6fb274871314533b5536b

(581)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:21 PM

This reasoning doesn't really make sense because bacteria exists everywhere, in everything...

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on November 20, 2011
at 02:21 PM

I wonder if people obsessed with "good bacteria" have ever heard of lactoferrin.

0
E1ef1729aa28118e20c3c885adf97e69

on February 13, 2013
at 02:57 AM

I found this site in search of seeking to know if the beneficial bacteria in raw goat's milk is killed by freezing. I conclude that the shorter the time of keeping it frozen, the less you lose. Of course there is live beneficial bacteria in raw milk. The harmful bacteria which sometimes ends up in raw milk is due to contamination in the milking or handling process. Rapid refrigeration and use after sterile procedures yields a very healthy outcome. People with Crohn's Disease and infants who have used this are proof of the benefits of raw goat's milk. Anything that could be a food source for harmful bacteria is also contaminated by contact with air which is teeming with bacteria. Thus you keep food refrigerated to avoid food poisoning.

0
20d92a732e2096b9beb28a29bf3c0207

on November 20, 2011
at 12:52 PM

Shees people, haven't you heard about where GOOD bacteria came from in the first place? From raw milk. Of course raw milk is not sterile! As for the freezing issue, I agree with those who say that freezing for a resonable time (longer is worse for the good bacteria) is fine - my frozen cultured milk can be thawed, then used successfully on preboiled (sterile) milk, thus proving that the freezing did not kill the good bacteria. The result is more yogurt.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on November 20, 2011
at 04:48 PM

First welcome Other tree! Looks like there's a bit of confusion going on here. Raw milk is beneficial in many ways but not due to bacterial influence. It must be fermented or cultures in some way to yield beneficial bacteria. The OP's question was initially only about raw milk and people are answering that question saying there are no beneficial bacteria in milk alone which is a correct statement. The second part mentions yogurt.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on November 20, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Shari has it right. All the "good" bacteria folks are interested don't come directly from the cow (because milk is fairly sterile in the cow, for good reason if you think about it), but rather come from contamination, intended or unintended, after harvest.

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