5

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Does anyone here that eats dairy not have a high LDL?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 01, 2011 at 1:01 AM

I constantly see threads pointing a finger and blaming dairy fat for the sky high LDL many paleo eaters get, and I was wondering if there was any heavy dairy eaters here who don't have a high LDL. It would be interesting to see how much dairy fat correlates with a high LDL.

9de28a80b0dea81e50495aa5bf28184b

(180)

on December 16, 2011
at 11:12 AM

I'm in a similar situation. I eat too much dairy, butter, cheeses, yogur, and my leveles of LDL hava skyrocketed since then :( http://paleohacks.com/questions/83913/high-ldl-tryglicerides-and-uric-acid#axzz1ggZ4xUqa

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on October 18, 2011
at 01:32 PM

I'm afraid you're right, Namby, and that's why I spend a lot of energy trying to wean myself off it. It's probably the hardest thing I've ever tried to kick; worse than coffee or cigs.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:31 AM

Uh oh, Rose, if you have connective-tissue related autoimmunity, it's best to avoid dairy and nightshades (as well as gluten, that goes w/o saying). I've experimented extensively w/dairy and each time, it's pounded into my head: No Mas!

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on October 01, 2011
at 06:30 PM

I used about 200 grams butter per week and hit TC of 460. I still use good cheese few times a week (like parmegiano-reggiano). I now rarely use butter. Its a shame tho, i think its the best tasting fat there is. Coconut oil is ok with some vegs but butter is ok with almost everything :/

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 01, 2011
at 03:30 AM

My LDL also isn't high, and dairy fat was my close friend all of last year. This year, I've try not to snack it (ice cream, that is) quite as much, maybe because Ray Peat has not put me under his spell.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on October 01, 2011
at 02:56 AM

Yummm Yummm Ice cream. I always take it on my trips and snack it! But it's my HDL that's really high, my LDL is low. Weird.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on October 01, 2011
at 02:02 AM

Oh yeah, I eat ice cream once or twice a week in the warmer months, I confess. Haha, sherpamelissa, now that it's getting colder I've forgotten...

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:56 AM

Yeah, my LDL is lower than that and I have never given up dairy. I would add ice cream to Melissa's list, but otherwise the same.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:48 AM

Another dairy eater with a low LDL, it looks like there is more at play for those that get high sky LDL's from dairy.

2d4ff23c8ce7fb00708fa88ceffd4087

(408)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:20 AM

Interesting. It looks like the problem is much more complicated than I thought.

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8 Answers

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8
Medium avatar

on October 01, 2011
at 03:14 AM

As with anything else, there's a wide spectrum of susceptibilities. I'd be really surprised if someone hit 400 total cholesterol without butter and/or cream in very large amounts. That's another thing; one person's "a lot of butter" can be quite a lot more than another's. I was using it for all cooking, then pouring it onto other things, making huge amounts disappear into sweet potato/white potato, drenching all vegetables with it. Come to think of it, there really wasn't much I was eating that wasn't a butter vehicle of some kind. I was buying 3-4 of those pasture butter double sticks at a time pretty frequently.

I usually recommend that people with super high butter-induced LDL restrict their butter intake because it's a dangerous experiment with no evolutionary precedent. Maybe the butter has so much k-2 that your arteries will never get calcified and the possible oxidation of the LDL as it sits around in your blood doesn't actually matter. Or maybe not, I don't know for sure. We probably all agree that 200mg/dL is an arbitrary upper limit on the reference range, but how many would say that there are no probable consequences to doubling the upper limit?

It may have seemed like I think that because butter raised my LDL, nobody should eat it. On the contrary, I think that:

If your LDL is totally off the charts
And you eat a lot of butter and/or cream
And you want to lower your LDL
Then you ought to just cut out butter and cream for a while and re-test instead of going on a wild goose chase or (god forbid) taking statins.

That butter is capable of doing this is a fairly well-documented phenomenon.

If you can tolerate as much (high quality) butter as I was eating without getting flabby or spiking your LDL, then you should by all means eat it.

44348571d9bc70c02ac2975cc500f154

(5853)

on October 01, 2011
at 06:30 PM

I used about 200 grams butter per week and hit TC of 460. I still use good cheese few times a week (like parmegiano-reggiano). I now rarely use butter. Its a shame tho, i think its the best tasting fat there is. Coconut oil is ok with some vegs but butter is ok with almost everything :/

9de28a80b0dea81e50495aa5bf28184b

(180)

on December 16, 2011
at 11:12 AM

I'm in a similar situation. I eat too much dairy, butter, cheeses, yogur, and my leveles of LDL hava skyrocketed since then :( http://paleohacks.com/questions/83913/high-ldl-tryglicerides-and-uric-acid#axzz1ggZ4xUqa

8
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on October 01, 2011
at 01:14 AM

I eat dairy and my LDL is 101. I don't drink milk or anything, but I have butter/ghee almost every day and cheese a couple of times a week. I'm not a "heavy" dairy eater, but it's part of my diet.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on October 01, 2011
at 02:02 AM

Oh yeah, I eat ice cream once or twice a week in the warmer months, I confess. Haha, sherpamelissa, now that it's getting colder I've forgotten...

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on October 01, 2011
at 02:56 AM

Yummm Yummm Ice cream. I always take it on my trips and snack it! But it's my HDL that's really high, my LDL is low. Weird.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 01, 2011
at 03:30 AM

My LDL also isn't high, and dairy fat was my close friend all of last year. This year, I've try not to snack it (ice cream, that is) quite as much, maybe because Ray Peat has not put me under his spell.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:56 AM

Yeah, my LDL is lower than that and I have never given up dairy. I would add ice cream to Melissa's list, but otherwise the same.

5
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:08 AM

I eat dairy (when I'm not trying to wean myself off it, lol), and my LDL was 117 in June. Not perfect, perhaps (some labs want to see it below 100), but a lot lower than some of the numbers I've seen posted here. And when I say I eat dairy, I mean a lot, and high fat, too. Up to a pint a day of HWC when I'm in the throes of a moo jag, along with pastured butter on everything, and sometimes all by itself, too.

2d4ff23c8ce7fb00708fa88ceffd4087

(408)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:20 AM

Interesting. It looks like the problem is much more complicated than I thought.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on October 18, 2011
at 04:31 AM

Uh oh, Rose, if you have connective-tissue related autoimmunity, it's best to avoid dairy and nightshades (as well as gluten, that goes w/o saying). I've experimented extensively w/dairy and each time, it's pounded into my head: No Mas!

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on October 18, 2011
at 01:32 PM

I'm afraid you're right, Namby, and that's why I spend a lot of energy trying to wean myself off it. It's probably the hardest thing I've ever tried to kick; worse than coffee or cigs.

4
0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

on October 01, 2011
at 02:12 AM

I am skeptical that it is dairy that is the problem.

What may be the problem is the extremes that some of us go to in fat consumption. Dairy gets pointed to because it is the easiest fat to go to extremes with.

Unless you are smothering butter over everything including your already juicy steaks and when it has melted simply adding more then it is pointless to compare your dairy consumption with mine. I really must have been consuming significantly more calories than I was expending and the percentage of my calories from fat must have been beyond what any sane person would consciously attempt.

And when I stopped dairy, I simply did the same thing but with tallow. Adding lump after lump into my bone broth soups or cooking in large amounts of tallow and pouring it over my meat.

Whereas when people say that they cut out dairy and their LDL improved, unless they replaced that dairy fat with another type of fat calorie for calorie then why should dairy be blamed and not simply the fat intake?

2
A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on October 01, 2011
at 02:03 AM

I eat butter, raw cheese, the occasional cappuccino, and full fat yogurt. Here are my latest numbers:

Total - 171

Trigs - 40

HDL - 63.1

LDL - 99.9

...

Trig / HDL - 0.634 (for why this ratio is important, click here).

I'm a 32yo female, 5'8" and 150#.

2
6b8d12fc3e43179f9ae1765a4d1a9dc2

(5914)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:52 AM

I eat a fair bit of cheese and cream in my coffee. Numbers are

Chol 194

Trigs 35

HDL 62

LDL 124

Chol/HDL ratio 3.1

I eat pretty strict, occasional lapse with pizza/bread (once every 4-5 months).

2
1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f

on October 01, 2011
at 01:40 AM

I eat full fat dairy (mostly cream and yogurt) in the context of fairly strict "primal" paleo. I am reasonably active, but nothing like Crossfit intensity. My last blood lipid panel was:

Total cholesterol 199 Triglycerides 54 HDL 68 LDL 120

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:48 AM

Another dairy eater with a low LDL, it looks like there is more at play for those that get high sky LDL's from dairy.

1
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on October 01, 2011
at 02:26 AM

Me. Low LDL, trigs and total runs in my family. High fat didn't change that much - my HDL, LDL and total all went up a bit. I think both my HDL and LDL were both in the mid-80s last time (no idea what BS formula was used). They show up as close to the same number always.

I go to extremes with dairy fat, definitely.

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