5

votes

Did you become "sensitive" to Dairy after Anti-Dairy campaign?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 06, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Listening to this Ray Peat Interviewon dairy brought up a question for me. I use to drink milk and it caused me no evident problems. I didn't get mucous or anything. Then in the early 80s, a campaign started against dairy. I swallowed the meme. Later on, the "truth" of the anti-dairy campaign was "verified". I would get somewhat stopped up when I tried to drink milk AND I would get the "runs". I am wondering if, as Peat suggests, I just need to be exposed to it again and that my enzymes will adjust.

Mind you, I am not saying that the above is true for all people. However, it seems to be in my case. So, my question is, did you start out sensitive to dairy or is it something you acquired by halting the use of dairy?

74f5d2ff6567edd456d31dfb9b92af61

(5227)

on December 19, 2011
at 06:09 PM

That's what I'm starting to think, too, air_hadoken. :)

C56baa1b4f39839c018180bf63226f7d

(3499)

on December 19, 2011
at 06:20 AM

The key may be alpha-S-1 casein (present in cow milk, absent in goat milk), but then again it may be something else entirely.

C56baa1b4f39839c018180bf63226f7d

(3499)

on December 19, 2011
at 06:14 AM

Not all brands of hot dogs contain milk powder, though the recipe I use on the rare occasion when I make hot dogs does. Here's a list of major manufacturers and whether they use dairy ingredients which I came across: http://surefoodsliving.com/2009/05/hot-dogs-and-sausages-gluten-free-and-dairy-free-list/

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on December 19, 2011
at 05:24 AM

I have seen some comparisons between A1 and A2 consuming populations, which is pretty tentative, but the molecular explanation makes sense. And I remember Robb Wolf saying that when he went over to Italy he was eating lots of casein but didn't get acne. Still, I wouldn't say any of that is great science, we would need randomized controlled trials, but it is certainly something to think about. We have our hypothesis.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 10, 2011
at 12:23 PM

Ray Peat...i dunno, strikes me as on the spacecadet side of things. Kind of over-analyzed everything and seems to think eating/living well is defined in a very narrow window.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on June 10, 2011
at 01:54 AM

Ray Peat actually is really fascinatingly anti-lacto fermentation because of lactic acid build up which can cause undo thyroid stress. I haven't heard this view anywhere else and have not researched it myself.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 09, 2011
at 05:11 AM

Too Funny Thomas!!! Next trip to the store for sure...

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 08, 2011
at 01:30 PM

thats what i was referring to in my list line there.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 08, 2011
at 05:57 AM

Eric, stop thinking and get the H-D and a spoon. Be a man of action!

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on June 08, 2011
at 02:37 AM

I'm going to be playing with reintroduction of A2 milk and yogurt from Grace Harbor Farms over the next couple weeks. I'll report back.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on June 08, 2011
at 02:05 AM

Art Ayers said last week on LLVLC that he thinks you can over come lactose intolerance in two weeks by eating yogurt (preferably a gradual dose increase a la Chris Kresser)

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 07, 2011
at 06:05 AM

Very cool about the test. Thanks for sharing!

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 07, 2011
at 06:02 AM

Hey Thomas! Great Question. I have been thinking about HD vanilla ice cream all day. Not sure why. Best Wishes - Eric

4a585ea8059f71614597a56805cc60c7

(390)

on June 07, 2011
at 02:02 AM

I wasn't okay with dairy before, and after behaving for months it's like being poisoned. My body pretty much said, "Uh, NO, you bonehead! Didn't you learn ANYTHING!?"

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:44 PM

Keith woodford (spelling) from New Zealand wrote a great book on it. That is why when I eat cheese it is always french cheese which has A2 casein......Im a stickler for my gut health.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:43 PM

cliff I wil write about that....but that is way down the road. First i must get people to understand levee two is critical. You dont get that right you wont have to worry about PI3K pathways......you'll be pushing up daisy's first.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Eggs can cause people with a problem in levee six. If you dont have that you can eat them. It is all about context and your cellular terroir. Go get a metometrix (GIfx) test to quantify yourself to answer this once and for all. That is what I do for patients with those questions.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:39 PM

Is there real science behind a1 vs a2? like actuall scientific papers? link? A link to more info about the second point would be awesome.as well.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:10 PM

and (see above) i only drink milk when pregnant. which im not.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:10 PM

the whole30 is......30 days. and i eat it all if its full fat. mostly heavy cream homemade yogurt and some cheese.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:42 PM

Yes. I was "fine" with dairy until 6 months on Paleo. Tried some cream in my coffee the other day and ended up the in bathroom for the rest of the day. I wasn't sure it was the dairy, so I tried it again. The outcome was the same, but on a limited basis. Had some yesterday with no problems. Almost like I built up a tolerance to it again.

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:37 PM

What's wrong with eggs?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:29 PM

nice question........plus one.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:27 PM

I don't understand. Are you drinking milk now or other dairy products? What dairy products are you presently eating? How long had you been without eating dairy?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:02 PM

Why do you think that?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 06, 2011
at 09:48 PM

Need to add, that right now I am not sensitive to cream/ice-cream, but milk seems to have the above effect on me.

  • 77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

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5 Answers

2
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 06, 2011
at 09:58 PM

firstly I think milk is kind of separate from a lot of other dairy. I mean, its like milk on one side and then you have yogurt/kefir (fermented milk), cream (just the fat), butter (see cream), yknow? Those three in comparison to just drinking milk seem a lot less problematic to me.

For me, i grew up never drinking a glass of milk in my life. I did after the age of about 27 start eating yogurt and kefir and cottage cheese. I've never had a problem digesting them.

I listened to that interview and I doubt that overcoming a digestive sensitivity to dairy is so easily remedied.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:02 PM

Why do you think that?

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on June 08, 2011
at 02:05 AM

Art Ayers said last week on LLVLC that he thinks you can over come lactose intolerance in two weeks by eating yogurt (preferably a gradual dose increase a la Chris Kresser)

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 08, 2011
at 01:30 PM

thats what i was referring to in my list line there.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on June 10, 2011
at 12:23 PM

Ray Peat...i dunno, strikes me as on the spacecadet side of things. Kind of over-analyzed everything and seems to think eating/living well is defined in a very narrow window.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on June 10, 2011
at 01:54 AM

Ray Peat actually is really fascinatingly anti-lacto fermentation because of lactic acid build up which can cause undo thyroid stress. I haven't heard this view anywhere else and have not researched it myself.

1
Cf4576cbcc44fc7f2294135609bce9e5

on December 19, 2011
at 05:14 AM

every drop of un sold milk is transformed into non fat dairy powder and added to hot dogs. many people do not know this. they consume hot dogs suffer all because thet didnt know about the milk. the average dog is 3.5 percent dry milk powder.

C56baa1b4f39839c018180bf63226f7d

(3499)

on December 19, 2011
at 06:14 AM

Not all brands of hot dogs contain milk powder, though the recipe I use on the rare occasion when I make hot dogs does. Here's a list of major manufacturers and whether they use dairy ingredients which I came across: http://surefoodsliving.com/2009/05/hot-dogs-and-sausages-gluten-free-and-dairy-free-list/

0
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:28 PM

For me.......dairy has to have context. Saying it has no effect on you is easy when youre not looking for the effect. I guaranttee you it can be found testing.

  1. A1 vs A2 casein protein effect's on the opioid receptors that alter the median forebrain bundles function and modulates its targets.

  2. And by activation/inhibition of a series of intracellular converging cascades in the CNS, leptin and insulin cross-talk via the phosphatidylinositol (PI) 3-kinase pathway. Involves CNS effects of leptin and insulin signaling.

Just because you dont know something does it invalidate the science.

Dairy has consequences. You just need to weigh them in the context of your current biochemistry and cellular terroir.

I love eggs and cream but I have no illusion that chronic use of them could trash my supercomputer in my skull.....

This is the genesis of where AD starts.

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:37 PM

What's wrong with eggs?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:43 PM

cliff I wil write about that....but that is way down the road. First i must get people to understand levee two is critical. You dont get that right you wont have to worry about PI3K pathways......you'll be pushing up daisy's first.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on June 07, 2011
at 06:05 AM

Very cool about the test. Thanks for sharing!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Eggs can cause people with a problem in levee six. If you dont have that you can eat them. It is all about context and your cellular terroir. Go get a metometrix (GIfx) test to quantify yourself to answer this once and for all. That is what I do for patients with those questions.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:39 PM

Is there real science behind a1 vs a2? like actuall scientific papers? link? A link to more info about the second point would be awesome.as well.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:44 PM

Keith woodford (spelling) from New Zealand wrote a great book on it. That is why when I eat cheese it is always french cheese which has A2 casein......Im a stickler for my gut health.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on December 19, 2011
at 05:24 AM

I have seen some comparisons between A1 and A2 consuming populations, which is pretty tentative, but the molecular explanation makes sense. And I remember Robb Wolf saying that when he went over to Italy he was eating lots of casein but didn't get acne. Still, I wouldn't say any of that is great science, we would need randomized controlled trials, but it is certainly something to think about. We have our hypothesis.

0
74f5d2ff6567edd456d31dfb9b92af61

(5227)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:26 PM

I became sensitive to dairy around the time I became an adult. When I was about 17 years old, I started breaking out in acne, and in my twenties, it became cystic acne.

I ran out of milk one day and did not have the money to buy more, and wound up not consuming it for about two or three weeks. It was then that my skin cleared up. Thus, in my case, halting the use of dairy fixed my problems rather than exacerbated them.

I have found that now I eat a much more healthful diet, I can tolerate higher-fat dairy in small quantities without breaking out. I have a very sensitive stomach, though, but not from /not/ eating dairy. So, even without spots, I still get a stomach ache if I eat more than a fraction of a portion of dairy.

Oh, and randomly, my body loves goat dairy. I can eat goat's milk yoghurt without any sort of problem. Different enzymes/casein maybe? No idea, but I'm thrilled that I can eat at least that. :)

C56baa1b4f39839c018180bf63226f7d

(3499)

on December 19, 2011
at 06:20 AM

The key may be alpha-S-1 casein (present in cow milk, absent in goat milk), but then again it may be something else entirely.

74f5d2ff6567edd456d31dfb9b92af61

(5227)

on December 19, 2011
at 06:09 PM

That's what I'm starting to think, too, air_hadoken. :)

0
Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:21 PM

i was vegan for a while and had issues with cheese when i started eating it again but recently got off doing a whole30 and had zero issues reintroducing dairy (oh, how i missed it!). ive only ever been a milk drinker when ive been pregnant, so i dont know from that.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:10 PM

the whole30 is......30 days. and i eat it all if its full fat. mostly heavy cream homemade yogurt and some cheese.

Aead76beb5fc7b762a6b4ddc234f6051

(15239)

on June 06, 2011
at 11:10 PM

and (see above) i only drink milk when pregnant. which im not.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 06, 2011
at 10:27 PM

I don't understand. Are you drinking milk now or other dairy products? What dairy products are you presently eating? How long had you been without eating dairy?

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