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Dairy/Kurt Harris Question

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created March 16, 2011 at 3:03 PM

I read Kurt Harris religiously, as do many folks on this forum. I'm wondering if anyone can shed light on his position on dairy?

In his 12 steps to quit the SAD, he suggests sticking with butter and cream while "avoid[ing] milk and soft cheeses." Yet he also writes that he enjoys brie once in awhile.

I understand that soft cheeses have more fat than hard cheeses, so I'm confused by why he'd suggest going full-fat for dairy and yet avoiding soft cheeses?

Anyone know?

C2502365891cbcc8af2d1cf1d7b0e9fc

(2437)

on March 17, 2011
at 05:53 AM

If you want to know about the theoretical risks of casein, lookup up the A1/A2 issue

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 16, 2011
at 05:04 PM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/19743/heavy-cream-brands-without-additives/26247#26247

F9a0b72f38860d7601afd5a45bb53394

(3618)

on March 16, 2011
at 04:11 PM

Mind you, the added color is USUALLY from a natural source. Always check the ingredients though.

F9a0b72f38860d7601afd5a45bb53394

(3618)

on March 16, 2011
at 04:10 PM

Where'd you get the cream? Read the ingredients. Most heavy cream is sold with gums and other adulterants added. I stopped buying Kroger's cream because the additives were bad enough but then they started adding skim milk to it. I want cream, not half-assed-and-half. I found another company that just sells it straight and I can drink it like milk, it doesn't bother me at all.

3a833804187fe8926214e6c0bd8a0766

(1023)

on March 16, 2011
at 04:02 PM

Interesting, I didn't know that about cream. Last time I had some (well, it was "heavy whipping cream," but thats the same, right?) I ended up on the floor with stomach cramps.

0dc1d63c3d5975f5115f535c6a90c9dd

(2283)

on March 16, 2011
at 03:31 PM

Exactly this. It has nothing to do with fat. It has to do with allergens.

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5 Answers

2
0b61bed110826f3b0f0c502dfa323c08

on March 16, 2011
at 09:09 PM

Go to Chris Kresser's site and post your question to Dr. Harris. He's going to be on Kresser's show this Friday.

2
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on March 16, 2011
at 06:14 PM

He eats hard cheeses (made from raw milk) because they are an excellent source of vitamin K. Same for butter and cream, and they contain very little of the compounds that usually cause people problems with dairy.

Since I cut all dairy except butter, cream, and Parmesan cheese, the skin on my face is finally clear (for the first time in 10 years, and the first time in over a year paleo/primal). So I think he has the right idea. :)

2
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 16, 2011
at 03:41 PM

Soft cheeses contain more lactose and casein. The longer a cheese ages, the harder and more 'dry' it gets. This is why a parmesan reggiano cheese is like as hard as a rock (as soooo amazingly deliciously btw). Hard cheeses contain very little moisture and are more densly 'packed'. Hard cheese can also keep for much longer than soft cheese, since bacteria are less interested due to the low moisture content.

Hard, light colored cheeses are best. Remember, milk isn't orange. Like pasture butter, cheese can have a yellow hue, but orange equals added color.

F9a0b72f38860d7601afd5a45bb53394

(3618)

on March 16, 2011
at 04:11 PM

Mind you, the added color is USUALLY from a natural source. Always check the ingredients though.

2
Eea4c0f072bb5caa74c1fbe6dfab5f46

(942)

on March 16, 2011
at 03:19 PM

Butter and Cream are very low in lactose and cream is said to lack casein entirely. This is why some who are lactose intolerant do A-OK on cream, ghee and butter (aka, the fats). So if he's going for the most easily digestible - butter and cream is where it's at. Most Brie is a double-cream cheese. Other soft cheeses are just "young."

F9a0b72f38860d7601afd5a45bb53394

(3618)

on March 16, 2011
at 04:10 PM

Where'd you get the cream? Read the ingredients. Most heavy cream is sold with gums and other adulterants added. I stopped buying Kroger's cream because the additives were bad enough but then they started adding skim milk to it. I want cream, not half-assed-and-half. I found another company that just sells it straight and I can drink it like milk, it doesn't bother me at all.

0dc1d63c3d5975f5115f535c6a90c9dd

(2283)

on March 16, 2011
at 03:31 PM

Exactly this. It has nothing to do with fat. It has to do with allergens.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 16, 2011
at 05:04 PM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/19743/heavy-cream-brands-without-additives/26247#26247

3a833804187fe8926214e6c0bd8a0766

(1023)

on March 16, 2011
at 04:02 PM

Interesting, I didn't know that about cream. Last time I had some (well, it was "heavy whipping cream," but thats the same, right?) I ended up on the floor with stomach cramps.

1
2c3a4e438d71775f45e98d1334b4e8d4

(495)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

Like you said, on his "get started" page, he places dairy as the lowest-priority item on his list.

"12. If you are allergic to milk protein or concerned about theoretical risks of casein, you can stick to butter and cream and avoid milk and soft cheeses."

  • So, looks like he's partly saying "hey, if you're allergic to this, stop eating it"
  • "theoretical risks of casein" -- I bet that will net some interesting search results. I might go digging.
  • And I know that many weight-loss studies have shown that some people stall out on weight loss if they have cheese in their diet, but some people can tolerate it without negative effect. This might be related to lactose allergies or casein sensitivity or some other weird thing? No idea if these trials had any influence on his suggestion.

And then he has another post Using Dairy to Substitute Fats for Carbohydrates which goes into more of it... and using the search box on his blog to look up "casein" or "lactose" will pull up some of the clarifications in the comments.

But if that doesn't really answer your question, it would be best to ask him, as I'm sure he has a very well-thought-out reason.

C2502365891cbcc8af2d1cf1d7b0e9fc

(2437)

on March 17, 2011
at 05:53 AM

If you want to know about the theoretical risks of casein, lookup up the A1/A2 issue

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