14

votes

Are Vegetables a Waste of Money?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 12, 2012 at 8:30 PM

I am a college student and like a lot of people.. my budget is limited. I don't buy any vegetables unless they are potatoes or cabbage to make saurkraut. Thinking about my diet/the plant/my wallet two questions come to mind.

  1. Why should i buy vegetables that provide me with essentially no calories when i could put that money toward more raw milk in my diet or upgrading from kerrygold butter and cheese (6 dollars per lb) to organic pastures raw butter and cheese (12 dollars per/lb.) I have nothing against vegetables.. they just seem kind of pointless.

  2. Can we sustainably feed the world growing vegetables? How much land do they actually take up? Is it small enough that it wouldnt effect more meaningful agriculture/ ranching?

Interested in hearing your thoughts!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2012
at 05:56 AM

Sure it is dumbass.

1dd1d4bde5b46b4c90efeadea3a96a75

(180)

on August 19, 2012
at 06:12 PM

@Matt - By saying you're not getting a huge amount of vitamins etc in meat (which by the way you can - and as mentioned previously your needs go down with less carb consumption) you are insinuating people can't be healthy on a meat based diet (which they can). If you like veggies eat them, but you can be perfectly fine and optimally healthy without them.

091423a30c0188fbff51e39397e7e056

(384)

on May 30, 2012
at 05:31 PM

He said near zero. Still way below the RDA.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 23, 2012
at 12:49 PM

I eat something 7 oz of salad greens or 3/4 lb pound of other frozen/fresh vegetables (over the course of a day) right now. I'm sure I'd survive if I decreased my intake:). Thanks for the berries recommendation, but when thinking of it from a cost perspective, a dollop of rice (with the same calorie amount as berries) would be less expensive.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 23, 2012
at 11:07 AM

Sure they are not necessary. But a waste of money? Nah. Most supplements, doctors and drugs are a waste of money.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:44 AM

Funny thing is there's plenty of epidemiological support for non-paleo things. Does paleo necessarily have it right? Nope. To say otherwise is just parroting dogma.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:42 AM

Again, putting words in to my mouth, and being wrong about it...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:41 AM

That's not what I said.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:40 AM

Dude, what's the problem with admitting that there are gaps in nutrition in a all-meat diet?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:39 AM

No, I said a number of nutrients (not almost everything) were near 0%.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 08:16 AM

There is a very small amount fibre in meat. The body doesn't usually need any extra fibre to pass meat easily through the entire digestive system.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:06 AM

I'm sorry but you are actually sitting here telling me that Soy has no problems? I also didn't say veggies were bad. I said you didn't NEED them. Which is what the OP asked. You want them to eat lots of veggies and now you want them to eat oats and soy ala Wahls-diet? Wtf?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:04 AM

If you don't like Paleo don't come to Paleo hacks. If you haven't researched what the down side of a diet high in Soy are you are trolling.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:03 AM

No...it doesn't. You are specifically saying this person can't be healthy on a meat based diet. They MUST eat veggies. You won't say which Vitamin or Mineral they will be deficient in but you say that many or most will be 0%? Which is a lie....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:01 AM

I'm saying that anyone who goes around claiming that a VLC diet is nutritionally empty and has 0% nutrition, and feels they have to lie about it has an agenda and it's smelling a bit vegany.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:59 AM

1 - Best fat comes from meat bro. 2 - Gonna tell us which of the vitamins and minerals are at 0% on mostly meat diet?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:58 AM

But the guy above put a meat based diet in cronometer and found it was flat lined in nutrition in almost everything. What's that smell...it's bullshit?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:57 AM

Then you messed up your cronometer. Name a single think that is 0 percent. Even vitamin C which is the lowest wouldn't be zero. I'm calling bullshit unless you name what is absolutely 0 on a ZC diet.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:55 AM

Did you read her book? She calls for people to drink and eat soy and limit meat consumption. I have no respect for her....

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on April 15, 2012
at 03:56 PM

You don't need veggies, especially GMO, pesticide ridden ones from the grocer. There, are you happy now?

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:06 PM

There's no way that's gorging, get a grip.

D4d83e7981ca572aaaa19fc620bb54f1

(467)

on April 13, 2012
at 07:06 PM

That's what I think too. I haven't been having many veggies, but at least a few organically grown complements meat, is healthy and won't be expensive.

A1a7413b99e03bc77f02d95c4170ea43

(2393)

on April 13, 2012
at 06:08 PM

Keep in mind that as our carbohydrate intake decreases, so does our RDA for a lot of vitamins and minerals. The more carbs we eat, the more we NEED to eat. That's why most cereals and grain-based foods are actually ENRICHED with B vitamins, because otherwise we'd actually become DEFICIENT by eating lots of them. Not that we eat those things, but that's the point. They're not as necessary as we think.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:59 PM

+1 Agree. I rarely eat veggies and over the last 5 years my health has only improved, my doctor says my tests are all but perfect no deficiencies, etc.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:36 PM

Just pointing out how absurd it is to call those who advocate a diet of animal and plant products "militant vegans"...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:17 PM

We don't need any one food really. We can do just fine without meat as well, shoots a hole in that argument.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:16 PM

I put your proposed diet through cronometer and those came up on the low side, some of them near 0%. Funny, talking of expensive urine, that's what you'll get with a diet in excessive protein.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:57 PM

On top in what way? Healthier? None of the nutrients you mention are deficient in a primarily animal diet. Not by a long-shot. Like I've said...PICK 1, just 1, that you'll be deficient in. This isn't wall street, there are no bonus points for extra. Your body needs what it needs, otherwise you are just making expensive urine.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:54 PM

@Matt - Isocaloricly for whom? Vitamin C needs drop with reduced carb consumption. Vitamin E need drops with a decrease in polyunsaturated fats and is artificially high in the RDI because of seed oil. B1, calcium, magnesium and manganese are all available in fairly large quantities in animal products. So, again, which ones are we going to be deficient in? Keep in mind the question is "Do we need them" not "Do you like them".

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:51 PM

....given the definition of "vegan" I'd have to say No. What's your point?

Bf57bcbdc19d4f1728599053acd020ab

(5043)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:29 PM

DOn't need vegetables? DId you watch the Terry Wahls video?

Medium avatar

(2338)

on April 13, 2012
at 11:45 AM

that doesn't sound like gorging to me it sounds like lunch lol

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 11:28 AM

1 pound a of meat, half pound of shrimp, 4 eggs, sounds like gorging to me. I achieve nutritional requirements eating maybe 1/3 of the animal products you do.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 11:25 AM

C, E, B1, Ca, Mg, Mn, etc... By supplementing meat with veg (or veg with meat), you cover all your micronutrients. It's not a contest between meat and veg, an optimal diet includes both. It might be possible to adequately cover micronutrients with one or the other, though more challenging. I'm afraid you'd lose a battle of micronutrients on an animal-only diet vs an omnivorous diet. Take 50% of your meat budget and supplement with plants and there's little doubt that an omnivorous would come out on top.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:33 AM

Best calorie punch is going to be fats and starches, not meat, and won't be as expensive or wasteful, in my opinion.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:17 AM

Why are you proposing we gorge on meat to meet nutritional requirements? How is that optimal?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:14 AM

Militant vegans? Really? Advocating eating plants, in addition to animal products, to ensure a balanced diet that covers all nutritional bases makes one a militant vegan?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:14 AM

Why can't I mention vitamin C? Isocalorically, veggies beat meat. Some things that jump to mind that animal products tend to lag behind plants in: vitamins C, E, thiamin (B1), calcium, manganese, magnesium, etc...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:04 AM

Why LardinMayo? Because oatmeal and soy have zero nutrition? Get off your paleo high-horse, and maybe entertain the idea that more than 1 way of eating can be healthy.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 04:19 AM

She lost a lot of credibility for me when her book recommended soy products and oatmeal.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:49 AM

You still haven't said what his diet would be deficient in. ALL Micro-nutrients? You want to compare $3 per day nutrition on animal based Vs. fresh fruit and veg?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:30 AM

LOL You keep saying that but you can't back it up. Name 1, JUST 1, thing that isn't Vtamin C that you can get from Mustard Greens that doesn't exist in sufficient quantities in animal products.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Plug that in for me and tell me which nutrient, just one mind you, is low enough to cause deficiency. Support with a scientific paper, preferably peer reviewed.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:24 AM

Matt - I'm on my Unix box so I don't have Fitday handy. I'd guess 1lbs of a lean cut of grass fed beef, 2 cups shrimp. Juice of 2 lemons and 4 eggs and a bottle of Mineral water and you are at 100% of almost everything. That's less than 2500 calories. Gorge...on less than 3000 kcal. LOL

A15af22bd729ec030e8f47d1189b6eaf

(774)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:19 AM

AFAIK thats how it used to be for ages ... fresh veggies and fruit in the darkest of winter are nice to have, but we were able to survive without them. Think kimchi or sauerkraut as some of the relatively well-known ways of preserving veggies for the colder oths. in the end it really comes down to individual ethics – seasonality/nutrient tradeoffs or freshness/most nutrients – methinks.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:02 AM

I don't know how much meat you're planning to gorge on to get that level. But a steak, shrimp and eggs covers a few nutrients, with quite a few gaps otherwise.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:59 AM

But a huge amount of vitamins, minerals and phytochemicals you're not getting in meat.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:37 AM

I'm almost there with you. I go a little crazy in the summer on Peaches and cherries but other than that I only hit things like garlic, onion-types, herbs and things to make salsa. Veggies make great condiments for food! :D

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:33 AM

Awesome. That's 25 calories. Only 1975 to go.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:32 AM

Sunny - Not the best plan IMO. If you are going to add some extra carb in for energy I'd recommend something like frozen berries, citrus etc... which give you lots of flavor AND have the benefit of high vitamin C. Rice and Vit C compete for transport so the only way low C diets are good is if they are also low carb.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:28 AM

Like what? Seriously, some steak, a few shrimp, a squeeze of lemon and a few eggs and I'm at 80-600% of my RDI on everything. Add well water and some S. Peligrino and you are absolutely golden. You can make an argument that non-vitamin plant substances are good for you but I've seen no conclusive research to prove this.

361e96d70d6d3b91d63f6ad975e60ab6

(840)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:24 AM

Exactly what I do!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 12, 2012
at 11:35 PM

I too am baffled at the question and the overwhelming agreement with it.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 12, 2012
at 10:08 PM

Yeah, that sounds amazing! My plan, *IF* I end up moving is to keep protein sources fairly the same, up fats a little and replace most vegetables/fruits with rice for carbs since rice is so much cheaper. My grocery bill would then be less since all I'm swapping is vegetables. I suppose I could eat less animal (try to get about 50-60 g protein a day) and use vegetables for some protein. Mmm, I'd love go try your homegrown kale and squash!

D3495cd9e3e7173f24e1dbee40774573

on April 12, 2012
at 10:00 PM

I love veggies too. I have started buying and eating a lot more of them, and grocery bills are dropping. I cheat and buy frozen though- green beans, spinach, broccoli and petit pois. I buy huge bunches of collards for cheap too, and I'm growing kale and kabocha squash.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on April 12, 2012
at 09:17 PM

I am the same way. But my house has this amazing raised vegetable garden area. I was going to plant a bunch of stuff, just for the chickens to dig up and eat.

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21 Answers

24
7d3a7b532811b6cfa2de09acdf52d145

(610)

on April 12, 2012
at 10:59 PM

I'm quite baffled reading this AND seeing people agreeing on it.. I mean, eating fish & meat is very healthy, but with not eating vegetables you are missing more than half of your vitamins, anti-oxidants and God knows what beneficial stuff is in there.

There are lots of scientific reports showing that eating vegetables will protect you from all kinds of diseases, and vitamins from a bottle don't give you the same benefits, although it will give you some protection for the worst kind of diseases.

It's possible to only eat meat, like the Inuit. But unless you eat exactly like the Inuit it wouldn't be wise to cut out all vegetables. Personally, from what seems most healthy in scientific reports I have read, I would cut down the amount of meat for the time being until the money issues have faded.

To answer your second question: I don't know ;) At least the population shouldn't grow much then. That's the biggest issue, there are already too much people on earth and there are getting more and more people each day. Interesting documentary on how many people can live on earth, by David Attenborough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwBgNF_4g7Q

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Plug that in for me and tell me which nutrient, just one mind you, is low enough to cause deficiency. Support with a scientific paper, preferably peer reviewed.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:28 AM

Like what? Seriously, some steak, a few shrimp, a squeeze of lemon and a few eggs and I'm at 80-600% of my RDI on everything. Add well water and some S. Peligrino and you are absolutely golden. You can make an argument that non-vitamin plant substances are good for you but I've seen no conclusive research to prove this.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 11:28 AM

1 pound a of meat, half pound of shrimp, 4 eggs, sounds like gorging to me. I achieve nutritional requirements eating maybe 1/3 of the animal products you do.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:17 AM

Why are you proposing we gorge on meat to meet nutritional requirements? How is that optimal?

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:06 PM

There's no way that's gorging, get a grip.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 12, 2012
at 11:35 PM

I too am baffled at the question and the overwhelming agreement with it.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:02 AM

I don't know how much meat you're planning to gorge on to get that level. But a steak, shrimp and eggs covers a few nutrients, with quite a few gaps otherwise.

Medium avatar

(2338)

on April 13, 2012
at 11:45 AM

that doesn't sound like gorging to me it sounds like lunch lol

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:24 AM

Matt - I'm on my Unix box so I don't have Fitday handy. I'd guess 1lbs of a lean cut of grass fed beef, 2 cups shrimp. Juice of 2 lemons and 4 eggs and a bottle of Mineral water and you are at 100% of almost everything. That's less than 2500 calories. Gorge...on less than 3000 kcal. LOL

A1a7413b99e03bc77f02d95c4170ea43

(2393)

on April 13, 2012
at 06:08 PM

Keep in mind that as our carbohydrate intake decreases, so does our RDA for a lot of vitamins and minerals. The more carbs we eat, the more we NEED to eat. That's why most cereals and grain-based foods are actually ENRICHED with B vitamins, because otherwise we'd actually become DEFICIENT by eating lots of them. Not that we eat those things, but that's the point. They're not as necessary as we think.

12
C0fcb48d7da4f76fac17318efd2cd6b8

on April 13, 2012
at 02:15 AM

Uh, people, how about some dirt and ten cents worth of seeds? I mean, window boxes with dirt, community gardens, neighbors' back yard, trades, CSA, You Pick farms? There are a LOT of ways to get vegies for pretty cheap or nothing, you just got to GATHER them.

And eat your vegetables 'cause grandma was right. They're good for you.

7
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:05 AM

Vegetables aren't there for calories, per se. They're included in my diet for their micronutrients, which, in combination with a moderate amount of animal products covers all my bases well.

For calories, I stick to fats (coconut, olive, avocado, butter, etc...) and starches (rice, poatoes, root veg, etc...)

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:16 PM

I put your proposed diet through cronometer and those came up on the low side, some of them near 0%. Funny, talking of expensive urine, that's what you'll get with a diet in excessive protein.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:49 AM

You still haven't said what his diet would be deficient in. ALL Micro-nutrients? You want to compare $3 per day nutrition on animal based Vs. fresh fruit and veg?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 11:25 AM

C, E, B1, Ca, Mg, Mn, etc... By supplementing meat with veg (or veg with meat), you cover all your micronutrients. It's not a contest between meat and veg, an optimal diet includes both. It might be possible to adequately cover micronutrients with one or the other, though more challenging. I'm afraid you'd lose a battle of micronutrients on an animal-only diet vs an omnivorous diet. Take 50% of your meat budget and supplement with plants and there's little doubt that an omnivorous would come out on top.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:57 PM

On top in what way? Healthier? None of the nutrients you mention are deficient in a primarily animal diet. Not by a long-shot. Like I've said...PICK 1, just 1, that you'll be deficient in. This isn't wall street, there are no bonus points for extra. Your body needs what it needs, otherwise you are just making expensive urine.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:57 AM

Then you messed up your cronometer. Name a single think that is 0 percent. Even vitamin C which is the lowest wouldn't be zero. I'm calling bullshit unless you name what is absolutely 0 on a ZC diet.

091423a30c0188fbff51e39397e7e056

(384)

on May 30, 2012
at 05:31 PM

He said near zero. Still way below the RDA.

6
2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

on April 12, 2012
at 10:08 PM

Variety is the spice of life. I love meat, but eating solely fish, eggs, meat and fat for all meals would get rather revolting and sends me straight for the carbs. I focus on the most nutrition for the money, buying shitake/cremini mushrooms, carrots, frozen organic broccoli (a bargain compared to fresh), cauliflower and sweet potatoes. Avoiding unnecessary extras.All organic, all local. Also I eat according to the season and whats at the market, everything tastes so much better that way!

5
4ec0fe4b4aab327f7efa2dfb06b032ff

(5145)

on April 15, 2012
at 02:56 PM

For $6 you can get a bin of organic mixed greens from Whole Foods that will last you a week and a half. Diet isn't just a race to fulfill your caloric requirements.

5
Medium avatar

(10611)

on April 12, 2012
at 08:54 PM

I'd focus on the cheap nutritious ones. There are a million ways to eat cabbage and broccoli, squash and root vegetables. Ultimately fresh cut is not sustainable unless it's local and seasonal.

3
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on April 13, 2012
at 04:22 AM

I think veggies are important to a diet, but it is the quality, not the volume. When veggies are grown naturally, you don't need many to give you a great amount of flavor, vitamins and minerals. Our obsession with veggies that are high in sugar and volume, but little else, encourages waste of the land used to grow them.

D4d83e7981ca572aaaa19fc620bb54f1

(467)

on April 13, 2012
at 07:06 PM

That's what I think too. I haven't been having many veggies, but at least a few organically grown complements meat, is healthy and won't be expensive.

3
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:56 AM

I don't see the point of expensive dairy. It's no where near the most bang for your buck. Cheap grass fed meat, liver and other offal and you are good to go for what $3-4 a day? Back fill with whatever tastes good and you are fine. My wife and I live super cheaply on the above, plus some homemade salsa, herbs, citrus, avocado and flash frozen local berries as a treat. No matter what the influx of what appear to be militant vegans tell you, you won't be deficient on this diet, you will be above the RDI on almost everything and in some cases MASSIVELY higher and for prices that compete reasonably with Ramen noodles (ok not really but still).

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:14 AM

Militant vegans? Really? Advocating eating plants, in addition to animal products, to ensure a balanced diet that covers all nutritional bases makes one a militant vegan?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:36 PM

Just pointing out how absurd it is to call those who advocate a diet of animal and plant products "militant vegans"...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:51 PM

....given the definition of "vegan" I'd have to say No. What's your point?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:01 AM

I'm saying that anyone who goes around claiming that a VLC diet is nutritionally empty and has 0% nutrition, and feels they have to lie about it has an agenda and it's smelling a bit vegany.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:41 AM

That's not what I said.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 04, 2012
at 05:56 AM

Sure it is dumbass.

3
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on April 12, 2012
at 08:53 PM

I'm with you! I prefer to let animals eat most of my greens.

If given the choice, I'll take chicken liver pat?? over spinach any day.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on April 12, 2012
at 09:17 PM

I am the same way. But my house has this amazing raised vegetable garden area. I was going to plant a bunch of stuff, just for the chickens to dig up and eat.

66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:59 PM

+1 Agree. I rarely eat veggies and over the last 5 years my health has only improved, my doctor says my tests are all but perfect no deficiencies, etc.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:58 AM

But the guy above put a meat based diet in cronometer and found it was flat lined in nutrition in almost everything. What's that smell...it's bullshit?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:39 AM

No, I said a number of nutrients (not almost everything) were near 0%.

3
Medium avatar

(2338)

on April 12, 2012
at 08:52 PM

im in the same situation... for what you get vegetables are just not worth the price... i also only buy sweet potatoes to refeed on the weekends and once in a while ill get a variety of veggies for sauerkraut. the rest of the time i'm a carnivore. im just waiting for spring/summer to get here so my garden can get me all my veggies for free

A15af22bd729ec030e8f47d1189b6eaf

(774)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:19 AM

AFAIK thats how it used to be for ages ... fresh veggies and fruit in the darkest of winter are nice to have, but we were able to survive without them. Think kimchi or sauerkraut as some of the relatively well-known ways of preserving veggies for the colder oths. in the end it really comes down to individual ethics – seasonality/nutrient tradeoffs or freshness/most nutrients – methinks.

361e96d70d6d3b91d63f6ad975e60ab6

(840)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:24 AM

Exactly what I do!

2
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on April 23, 2012
at 05:05 AM

They are only a waste if you do no eat them...

2
06bf7b92d77f1ac1d8e3dc9d539d8254

on April 15, 2012
at 06:50 PM

I'd say that I generally agree that you can get most of what you need from meat/eggs/milk. However there is one major caveat.. raw veg is good for the gut. We all know that the gut plays a MASSIVE role in overall health and that we have just scratched the surface of the role it plays. My approach is to play it safe and eat my veg.

2
C326acd0ae246a39c5685f2ba72e3136

on April 13, 2012
at 04:35 PM

No just eat meat and use your money on more Grass fed animals and pastured eggs. There is nothing in veggies that you can't get in meat. Meat is a complete food. Who is going to get deficient eating Nutrient dense animals and eggs. Impossible. I've eaten nothing but Meat for months on end. The mind likes variety, the body is fine as long as you get adequate calories and fat from healthy animal sources.

2
78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

on April 12, 2012
at 08:43 PM

I've actually thought about this, especially in the last day or two! I might be moving to a big city for an internship with a low stipend (career change, so it's worth it). After housing, my medical needs, savings to travel home for holidays...I won't have much left for food.

In order of importance, my list will go like this: fish, eggs, meat, coconut oil, vegetables/fruits. I figure that it will give me all all I need, and that supplementing with a vitamin (shame on me, for being so non-paleo) is actually cheaper than buying produce. I have been planning to purchase $10 of produce max a week. I might even do rice because of the cost and how it settles well with me.

I am going to source locally for meats and eggs, and that won't change since I won't buy CAFO and I think my protein quality is more important than vegetables. I also plan on not being so worried about BPA so that I can buy cheaper sardines as well. Vegetables seem to be of least importance...

I LOVE vegetables though. I freaking LOVE THEM SO MUCH. I love spinach, kimchi, kale, lettuce, zucchini, tomatoes, etc. But when it comes to cost, the benefits of getting adequate calorie punch for cost seems more important.

D3495cd9e3e7173f24e1dbee40774573

on April 12, 2012
at 10:00 PM

I love veggies too. I have started buying and eating a lot more of them, and grocery bills are dropping. I cheat and buy frozen though- green beans, spinach, broccoli and petit pois. I buy huge bunches of collards for cheap too, and I'm growing kale and kabocha squash.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:32 AM

Sunny - Not the best plan IMO. If you are going to add some extra carb in for energy I'd recommend something like frozen berries, citrus etc... which give you lots of flavor AND have the benefit of high vitamin C. Rice and Vit C compete for transport so the only way low C diets are good is if they are also low carb.

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 12, 2012
at 10:08 PM

Yeah, that sounds amazing! My plan, *IF* I end up moving is to keep protein sources fairly the same, up fats a little and replace most vegetables/fruits with rice for carbs since rice is so much cheaper. My grocery bill would then be less since all I'm swapping is vegetables. I suppose I could eat less animal (try to get about 50-60 g protein a day) and use vegetables for some protein. Mmm, I'd love go try your homegrown kale and squash!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:33 AM

Best calorie punch is going to be fats and starches, not meat, and won't be as expensive or wasteful, in my opinion.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:40 AM

Dude, what's the problem with admitting that there are gaps in nutrition in a all-meat diet?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:59 AM

1 - Best fat comes from meat bro. 2 - Gonna tell us which of the vitamins and minerals are at 0% on mostly meat diet?

78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

(5519)

on April 23, 2012
at 12:49 PM

I eat something 7 oz of salad greens or 3/4 lb pound of other frozen/fresh vegetables (over the course of a day) right now. I'm sure I'd survive if I decreased my intake:). Thanks for the berries recommendation, but when thinking of it from a cost perspective, a dollop of rice (with the same calorie amount as berries) would be less expensive.

1
F3583667d653163c121640a015ffa93a

(784)

on April 15, 2012
at 02:22 PM

I view vegetables pretty much as condiments. A nice green salad with a bacon/bacon grease and vinegar dressing is fine on occasion, as well, but I don't consider it necessary, and frankly, I wouldn't enjoy it that much if it weren't for the bacon dressing.

Oh, yeah, and I eat chocolate. I guess that's a vegetable, or a plant, at least. And spices and herbs are good for seasoning meat.

I do miss, this time of year, the first milk from cows on lush grass. The milk tastes grassy. I always figured that was a salad right there. But in general the idea that you "need" vegetables doesn't fly with me.

1
87e9b93ebba7282403395c9e2ad887a5

on April 13, 2012
at 03:21 AM

One of the best videos I've seen with regards to eating vegetables is a video that Dr. Terry Wahls. This woman seemed to have found the cure for MS by diet. And it was meat and videos. I say seems because it really is a n=1 self experiment. However, I think we all learn from it. I'm probably not far off from implementing this protocol myself. A couple of major differences since I'm on a low budget because I haven't had a decent paying job in over a decade. I can't go organic and grass fed anything. I'm not going to worry about that because even with conventional whole food I strongly believe your further ahead. Second, I could add some more leaf vegetables by probably growing them cheaply enough. Lettuce tends to grow okay in doors. At least, for the short time I tried it two years ago. Third, onions, carrots, tubers, cabbage can be quite cheap. Add in a couple other vegetables and you have a nice mixture on a budget.

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjgBLwH3Wc

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 04:19 AM

She lost a lot of credibility for me when her book recommended soy products and oatmeal.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:04 AM

Why LardinMayo? Because oatmeal and soy have zero nutrition? Get off your paleo high-horse, and maybe entertain the idea that more than 1 way of eating can be healthy.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:06 AM

I'm sorry but you are actually sitting here telling me that Soy has no problems? I also didn't say veggies were bad. I said you didn't NEED them. Which is what the OP asked. You want them to eat lots of veggies and now you want them to eat oats and soy ala Wahls-diet? Wtf?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:04 AM

If you don't like Paleo don't come to Paleo hacks. If you haven't researched what the down side of a diet high in Soy are you are trolling.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:44 AM

Funny thing is there's plenty of epidemiological support for non-paleo things. Does paleo necessarily have it right? Nope. To say otherwise is just parroting dogma.

1
7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on April 12, 2012
at 09:59 PM

I like to have a varied diet so I try to include vegetables every day. They also add flavor to meals and are especially good when sauteed with the meat.

If you need vegetables on a budget there is always a deal whether that is for the cheaper fresh ones, canned or frozen. As to whether they are necessary, I do not know, but I would personally get very bored just eating meat. You can theoretically get everything you need from animal products as long as you eat organs but in my mind I ask why would you?

1
C513f1dba19e01bbd7e0f4f12b243a97

(670)

on April 12, 2012
at 09:48 PM

This is a good question and something I've wondered about, as produce can be so pricey in Australia and meat is relatively cheaper. I think ultimately it will come down to individual preference and how you fare with more or less vegetable matter.

For me (although it's still early days) I find that vegetable matter on the whole feels good, especially starches and cooked vegetables like cabbage. The latter doesn't provide many calories but they taste so good in soups I don't mind spending a bit on them. I don't know about greens, which we've been told for so long are essential to good health. How much of their nutrients do we actually utilise? I'm not sure, but I won't lose any sleep over not having them sometimes :^)

Fermented vegetables may also be important for some. Stuff like saukerkraut is easy because cabbage is usually cheap.

Then there's the question of pleasure - mangoes are seriously heavenly! So when they're in season I'll buy boxes, no matter the price!

1
Fa8d53527dd4a326da1d1f67de296fc9

(30)

on April 12, 2012
at 09:43 PM

I just bought mustard greens and turnip greens at walmart for 1 dollar a bunch...just saying

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:30 AM

LOL You keep saying that but you can't back it up. Name 1, JUST 1, thing that isn't Vtamin C that you can get from Mustard Greens that doesn't exist in sufficient quantities in animal products.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:59 AM

But a huge amount of vitamins, minerals and phytochemicals you're not getting in meat.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:33 AM

Awesome. That's 25 calories. Only 1975 to go.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 03:17 PM

We don't need any one food really. We can do just fine without meat as well, shoots a hole in that argument.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 13, 2012
at 10:14 AM

Why can't I mention vitamin C? Isocalorically, veggies beat meat. Some things that jump to mind that animal products tend to lag behind plants in: vitamins C, E, thiamin (B1), calcium, manganese, magnesium, etc...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 02:54 PM

@Matt - Isocaloricly for whom? Vitamin C needs drop with reduced carb consumption. Vitamin E need drops with a decrease in polyunsaturated fats and is artificially high in the RDI because of seed oil. B1, calcium, magnesium and manganese are all available in fairly large quantities in animal products. So, again, which ones are we going to be deficient in? Keep in mind the question is "Do we need them" not "Do you like them".

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on April 23, 2012
at 10:42 AM

Again, putting words in to my mouth, and being wrong about it...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:03 AM

No...it doesn't. You are specifically saying this person can't be healthy on a meat based diet. They MUST eat veggies. You won't say which Vitamin or Mineral they will be deficient in but you say that many or most will be 0%? Which is a lie....

1dd1d4bde5b46b4c90efeadea3a96a75

(180)

on August 19, 2012
at 06:12 PM

@Matt - By saying you're not getting a huge amount of vitamins etc in meat (which by the way you can - and as mentioned previously your needs go down with less carb consumption) you are insinuating people can't be healthy on a meat based diet (which they can). If you like veggies eat them, but you can be perfectly fine and optimally healthy without them.

0
07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

on April 13, 2012
at 01:22 AM

I wouldn't spend the money upgrading dairy foods, I'd spend it on nutrient dense seafood like shellfish and whole fish.

I don't eat calorie-poor vegetables either, except my chilies! Every couple of months I'll get a strange craving for a huge leafy salads, and I end of stuffing my face with salad for a few days, then I very quickly lose my taste for them for another few months.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 13, 2012
at 01:37 AM

I'm almost there with you. I go a little crazy in the summer on Peaches and cherries but other than that I only hit things like garlic, onion-types, herbs and things to make salsa. Veggies make great condiments for food! :D

-1
D5369e1b22b38250149ad2c8a44e5926

on April 23, 2012
at 04:44 AM

Meat doesn't have fiber...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 23, 2012
at 08:16 AM

There is a very small amount fibre in meat. The body doesn't usually need any extra fibre to pass meat easily through the entire digestive system.

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