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Max Effort Black Box

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 27, 2011 at 2:19 AM

Is anyone following a max effort Black Box routine? It is a routine that was created by Michael Rutherford from boot camp fitness KC. http://www.bootcampfitnesskc.com/the-fitness-conduit/

to quote crossfit Generation " The template revolves around 3 cycles of 3 different lifts. The 3 lifts are total body (T), Lower Body (L), and Upper Body (U). Each week you will do a different rep scheme based on %s. The last set is a max attempt. You will now have a 15 minute time limit to complete the "max effort" work in order to avoid the risk of injury and frustration of trying over and over again to obtain a new record. If it is there, it is there, if not, you will nail it next time. " reference

Following this, you do a short ten minute metcon. Robb Wolf claims to run a similar approach at Norcal3

My issue is I wanted to attack more than three lifts each week and I am trying to figure out a reasonable way to add them in. I attempted doing two max effort lifts a day. (I added weighted pullups, bench, and deadlifts) This worked reasonably well for about 8 weeks. Yesterday, my body simply quit on me and I could not do a squat of any weight. Now, I realize I must be overtraining.

I have a few questions. Has anyone tried a routine like this and been able to sustain multiple max efforts over a long period of time? Is anyone familiar with how they train at a gym like NorCal? Am I being too impatient on insisting on working chest, shoulders, and lats in each cycle?

Overall, I really enjoy the approach and would encourage others to try it as designed. Its a lot of fund to go into every workout with a PR to beat.

Edit: for some personal info, I followed starting strength then moved to strength based crossfit to this. I am strict paleo with relatively low carb, with the bulk of my carbs coming post workout.

Thank you everyone for all of the help. article on whole 9

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Sorry Jake, I just saw your update. I followed CFFootball for 6 months and never have been stronger and faster. John really knows his stuff. I injured myself playing rec sports,but I just got back into it. I am following Coach Rut's workouts until I am ready to get back to Welbourn's routine. http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheFitnessConduit

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:22 AM

Sorry Jake, I just saw your update. I followed CFFootball for 6 months and never have been stronger and faster. John really knows his stuff. I injured myself playing rec sports,but I just got back into it. I am following Coach Rut's workouts until I am ready to get back to Welbourne's routine.

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on February 13, 2012
at 02:29 PM

Have you made any progress? What is your current training looking like?

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on July 28, 2011
at 12:11 PM

I feel tired and beaten up outside of the gym too. Try incorporating higher carb meals pwo and doing some ice baths or cold showers. And sleeping as much as possible.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 28, 2011
at 02:12 AM

I am progressing, just tired and beaten up outside of the gym

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 28, 2011
at 02:11 AM

Thanks Tom, I think I am going to try crossfit football with some extra rest, when i need it.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 12:48 PM

JakeA, I really like the strength wod's at crossfit football. I might try it. You are right about diet. I do not eat enough to sustain my efforts. The article is very interesting. I do vary the weights but go for max effort for each target rep scheme.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 09:33 AM

Thanks. Well, I wanted to push my chest and back in each cycle. I bought the articles from Performance Menu and there is no definitive way of implementing it. Coach Rut gives tons of examples of ways to implement. I was hoping someone here had a good experience with MEBB and could enlighten me with what worked best for them.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 09:29 AM

Also, I was pretty beaten up and not making gains when I was doing the official 3/1 crossfit routine

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 09:26 AM

Thanks, I will check it out. That sounds really good. I asked here because a lot of the paleo folk who have been unceremoniously kicked out of crossfit, claim to run similar programs at their gyms.

Cd2ff8c68dd1f1d539ad7f0ee94b0421

(1061)

on July 27, 2011
at 04:16 AM

Zatsiorsky's book is great. I saw Rippetoe mention it in passing in a thread online somewhere and bought it. Great resource for anybody doing strength training.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb

(5541)

on July 27, 2011
at 02:53 AM

I like to hear the opinions of different communities regarding the same topic. That being said, great answer as usual.

B3e46faef68425d507e1194859fd60d7

(0)

on July 27, 2011
at 02:43 AM

Also if you read the FAQ, exercise related posts are relevant.

B3e46faef68425d507e1194859fd60d7

(0)

on July 27, 2011
at 02:41 AM

I look at Paleo as more than just food/diet but as a way of life and optimizing health. My training/rest cycle is part included my pursuit of optimal health I feel that this post is relevant to paleo peeps.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 02:34 AM

No, I can delete my post if it is really irrelevant. I respond to a lot of beginner questions for lifting and was hoping someone from a strength based crossfit/box could give a response on how often they go after various muscle groups. I consider exercise,sleep,etc. as part of paleo as well.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 27, 2011
at 02:22 AM

Anything even vaguely related to food in this?

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4 Answers

best answer

1
1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on July 27, 2011
at 12:00 PM

Instead of constantly attempting max effort lifts, you may want to attack your lifts in a periodized way. This doesn't have to be weeks of periodization. Read this article on Bill Star's heavy-light-medium method

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/the-heavy-light-medium-system-for-strength-and-power/default.aspx

Basically if you're going for workouts mwf, do heavy monday, light wednesday, and medium friday. That keeps constant improvement.

Or you could stop trying to program for yourself and follow crossfitfootball.com which is similar to what you're already doing.

And to make this food-related... If you're not making progress perhaps you should eat more?

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 12:48 PM

JakeA, I really like the strength wod's at crossfit football. I might try it. You are right about diet. I do not eat enough to sustain my efforts. The article is very interesting. I do vary the weights but go for max effort for each target rep scheme.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 28, 2011
at 02:12 AM

I am progressing, just tired and beaten up outside of the gym

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on July 28, 2011
at 12:11 PM

I feel tired and beaten up outside of the gym too. Try incorporating higher carb meals pwo and doing some ice baths or cold showers. And sleeping as much as possible.

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on February 13, 2012
at 02:29 PM

Have you made any progress? What is your current training looking like?

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:22 AM

Sorry Jake, I just saw your update. I followed CFFootball for 6 months and never have been stronger and faster. John really knows his stuff. I injured myself playing rec sports,but I just got back into it. I am following Coach Rut's workouts until I am ready to get back to Welbourne's routine.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:26 AM

Sorry Jake, I just saw your update. I followed CFFootball for 6 months and never have been stronger and faster. John really knows his stuff. I injured myself playing rec sports,but I just got back into it. I am following Coach Rut's workouts until I am ready to get back to Welbourn's routine. http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheFitnessConduit

1
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on July 27, 2011
at 02:46 AM

This might be better suited on the crossfit boards.

But overall, overtraining is quite individual. If you cannot (mostly) recover between workouts, that is a pretty good signal. For an in depth discussion of overtraining, check out Zatsiorsky's "Science and Practice of Strength Training". But no matter what the science or others say about training frequency, might as well do what is comfortable for you.

Cd2ff8c68dd1f1d539ad7f0ee94b0421

(1061)

on July 27, 2011
at 04:16 AM

Zatsiorsky's book is great. I saw Rippetoe mention it in passing in a thread online somewhere and bought it. Great resource for anybody doing strength training.

Cc7381bd787721575ea9198048132adb

(5541)

on July 27, 2011
at 02:53 AM

I like to hear the opinions of different communities regarding the same topic. That being said, great answer as usual.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 09:29 AM

Also, I was pretty beaten up and not making gains when I was doing the official 3/1 crossfit routine

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 09:26 AM

Thanks, I will check it out. That sounds really good. I asked here because a lot of the paleo folk who have been unceremoniously kicked out of crossfit, claim to run similar programs at their gyms.

0
072fd69647b0e765bb4b11532569f16d

(3717)

on July 27, 2011
at 06:12 PM

I agree with some of the previous answers already. MEBB works well on its own. Give it a shot and see where you get. You might also Google Conjungate Crossfit and Chris Mason for a similar concept that may provide additional ideas. It is my understanding it is the metcon where you should incorporate the other movements (muscle groups) you describe above. Sometimes you might do this with heavier weights. Sometimes you might lighten the load. While I've never personally followed the CFFootball program, I hit their site regularly and think Welbourne puts together a very nice program. Those guys get after it.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 28, 2011
at 02:11 AM

Thanks Tom, I think I am going to try crossfit football with some extra rest, when i need it.

0
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20898)

on July 27, 2011
at 03:26 AM

Why not just follow the routine. It works pretty well. Addingore lifts necessarily means that the "max effort" on any lift will be less and you're no longer doing MEBB. Sometimes it helps to try the plan as written and then IF it doesn't work for you start tweaking.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on July 27, 2011
at 09:33 AM

Thanks. Well, I wanted to push my chest and back in each cycle. I bought the articles from Performance Menu and there is no definitive way of implementing it. Coach Rut gives tons of examples of ways to implement. I was hoping someone here had a good experience with MEBB and could enlighten me with what worked best for them.

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