It's my understanding that creatine is not heat stable and gets cooked out of red meat and fish (the richest naturally occurring sources of creatine). You know from my posts that I am against insulin resistance and pro insulin sensitivity, and while creatine intake doesn't correlate with increased insulin sensitivity in the short durations studied it does increase intracellular water, dht, Lean Muscle Mass(over time), is correlated with increased bmd and increased bmd is correlated with increased type iib muscle fibers.
Not to mention how creatine works to hydrate cells, and hydrate cells intracellularly, but it also helps the cells produce more energy faster.
In short, it's pretty awesome, but that's not the point or my question really. My question is basically shouldn't we all be supplementing with creatine for optimal paleo results assuming we aren't eating our meat raw?
In case you don't know much about creatine already:
Not to mention there are literally hundreds of clinical studies of it online from doing everything from increasing lifespan, to brain function, to muscle mass. It's rich in raw red meat and apparently gets mostly cooked out upon cooking. Thanks for your thoughts :)).
- +1 to all solid answers
asked byStephen_4 (10989)
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on March 11, 2013
at 11:48 AM
I take Creatine [Creapure] (5g) + Sodium Bicarbonate NaHCO3 (7g) every day. Mixed with BCAAs [Xtend] (14g) on workout days pre-workout.
See: Creatine: "not escalate single dosages beyond 5g" and "10-15g/day for 3-5 days followed by a maintenance dose of 3-5g/day" and Bicarb: "0.2g/kg body weight": http://bit.ly/LjAf49, http://bit.ly/Lqzxp3, http://bit.ly/KCAtSd.
Also see: Supercharging Creatine With Baking Soda: Study Shows Increased Peak Power and Endurance - Plus: How Bicarbonate Could Help You Lose Fat & Build Muscle: http://bit.ly/N1dKpz
As a sidenote see: NaHCO3 HIITs Interval Training: +34% Time to Exhaustion, +91% Total Work & Significantly More Lean Mass With 200mg/kg Baking Soda and High Intensity Interval Training! http://bit.ly/KCAtSd. The Latest on Sodium Bicarbonate: Serial Loading Almost as Effective as Acute Loading and Free of Gastrointestinal Side Effects. Plus: Can You Use Potassium Bicarbonate Instead http://bit.ly/KCAiGw. Lactic Acid: http://bit.ly/KCABBl
on March 09, 2013
at 02:14 AM
Its been on my list to look into for a while ( i was especiallly interested in it when i flirted with vegetarianism )
As much as i like my meat.. i cant ever see me eating it raw...blechh
a little blurb for the ladies
"While creatine supplementation is well researched (something many other sports supplements lack), about only one third of human studies involved female subjects. But it???s what those female studies are finding that warrants women cast another look at the creatine jug. What the research revealed was: creatine benefits are greater in women than in men; and unlike men, women do not gain weight from creatine supplementation even when loading (See ???Loading: is it necessary????).
on March 09, 2013
at 02:36 PM
I take it and get great benefits from it in body comp and workouts. I have spent a lot of time with 'Dr. Google' reading up on creatine and it seems that all the negative consequences people seem to blindly toss out do not have any validation while the benefits have extensive documentation and studies to substantiate the benefits. I know Robb Wolf has talked about it a few times in his podcast and he is a fan, but he also points out that some folks seem to be responders while others do not. I think he is referencing body comp and perforence benefits there thought if I recall correctly and not necessarily the other health benefits other posters and the original question pointed out here.
on March 09, 2013
at 10:37 AM
Stephen, I don't really know but I will share my n=1 (I can't believe I am writing this! I hate n=1)
I have always loved Lebanese cuisine, but when I found out they eat raw lamb (kibbi neya), I was completely grossed out. I thought that nobody in the right mind would try eating raw meat. Then I tried sashimi and LOVED IT!!! Later I found out that raw meat is a delicacy and is known to many different cultures.
Basically, I try to eat most vegetables/fruits raw, because I get really drowsy if they are cooked. But some foods I have to cook (not my choice) because otherwise I might get food poisoning. Fish and meat are some of them.
I make sure my meat is rare, very very rare and my fish is not overcooked.
I feel so much better after eating raw meat. I cannot even eat cooked meats now - only if they are covered in bone broth or served with gelatin.
I cannot understand the mechanics of it. Creatine? Taurine?
My guess is sometimes, when people would go hunting and gathering, they would eat some of their meat raw. Raw eggs, raw liver, for example. They did it for millions and millions of years. But when they brought their trophy home, they would cook it - the whole animal - with ears and head and all. Sometimes they would even leave the fur on.
So... I guess our digestive tracts are well-adapted to raw meats on occasions. The only thing our digestive tracks cannot handle are sugar and processed foods. Although, in one million years, who knows...
on March 16, 2013
at 03:08 AM
instead of supplementing our diets because we are eating a less then optimal food source when we choose to cook out meats, would it not make sense to eat meat raw? seriously consider it. raw meat is the most nutritious, easy to digest, natural and healthful foods we have. eating the whole animal is a good way to insure pretty complete nutrition, all of the organs, the marrow, and other tissues beside muscle meat contain a variety and variable amounts of amino acids, vitamins, minerals, fats, and in their raw state they are perfectly digestible and absorbable. i honestly don't know why more people haven't caught on. perhaps they are afraid of getting ill. if you buy from reputable farmers, who grow happy healthy animals on good pasture or are lucky enough to eat healthy wild life that you can butcher yourselef you should have no fear of sickness. five years and counting, i have only been sick once, and i knew better eating from the source i did, and it wasn't horrible, just a bad case of the toots.
on March 14, 2013
at 11:39 PM
Here's my take..
It is in my understanding that we as humans create our own creatine (within our liver and kidneys). Thus, looking solely at that fact could lead some people to believe we don't need to ingest exogenous creatine. This is the same logic that leads mainstream "health experts" and bodybuilders to believe that we don't need to consume gelatin/collagen, because we make our own glycine and proline.
I'm sure us folks at Paleo Hacks are aware of Dr. Weston A. Price and Ray Peat, both of whom tout the many benefits of increased proline/glycine consumption via gelatin.
Improved joint health and digestion, increased longevity, reversal of diseases.. all from the consumption of amino acids we already produce!!!
Up until the past few decades, Americans included more collagenous food in their diet (think whole chicken vs. 99% fat-free, skinless chicken breasts). This phenomena, along with the popularity of eating low-fat, PUFAs, and so on, really explain a the appearance of different diseases and health issues in this nation. Paleo-man sure got a fair amount of collagen in his diet.
On the other side of the coin, let's look at vitamin c, AKA ascorbic acid. We as humans are one of the very very few species that do NOT produce our own ascorbic acid. It could be pretty easy to assume that we need a LOT of vitamin c in our diet, especially when we find out that an adult goat produces up to 13g of vitamin c per day.
BUT, when you take a closer look at the whole situation, we find as that, as humans, we essentially "recycle" used-up vitamin c. This probably explains why eating paleo doesn't necessarily give us boat-loads of vitamin c, but at least well-beyond the RDA of 90mg.
The two areas that have fruits ultra-rich in vitamin c weren't populated by humans until the end the paleolithic era: Australia (kakadu plum) in 50,000 BC and Central America (acerola cherries) in 12,000 BC. This is my reference.
So, paleo-man survived (and perhaps lived optimally) with limited vitamin c, yet we're bombarded with studies that show how a couple thousand milligrams can do this and that for us.
So, in the end, we really need a researcher who can take the approach that Ray Peat and Price did, and really look at if humans of the past consumed creatine via undercooked/rare meat, and what are the possible life-extending, universally-wholesome properties of increased creatine levels, if there are any. It's those two questions that have helped us identify the historical and evolutionary significance of vitamin c and collagen in our diets.
In the meantime, as more research and analysis is performed, the significance of exogenous creatine will become more apparent. Until then, we'll be left with anecdotal accounts of creatine usage.
I hope my post shed some light on this.
on March 11, 2013
at 02:23 PM
Good question, also something I've been considering for awhile. I understand that further to the benefits you cite, creatine can also be used as a protective measure against neuro degenerative diseases.
I'm in the process of leaning out (would like to go from 18% BF down to 10%) and am interested in whether this would help or hinder that process, as I'm seeing some conflicting evidence via the google.
I'm planning on doing 5g daily for two weeks every two months as soon as my next blood panel comes back clean on kidneys. I want a good before measure, and also want to make sure they can handle it as I have had issues with gout previously.
on March 09, 2013
at 04:07 PM
Depends on how dogmatic you are with paleo. Since creatine supps are made on a factory production line somewhere that is not very paleo to eat. Based on this criteria fish oil, prescription meds and more aren't paleo either so I don't adhere to that view.
I use it myself because I powerlift and creatine works like a champ for muscle mass growth which correlates to bigger lifts.