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Low night cortisol and melatonin, high morning cortisol - bad sleeping

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 23, 2013 at 1:53 PM

I have problem with sleeping and I think the reason is about cortisol and melatonin. My morning cortisol is just on the high limit of the expected levels for morning and night cortisol just on the low limit of expected levels for night. Melatonin is also too low (2, should be in range 5-25). I was thinking to take melatonin, but since it lowers cortisol it is not a good idea because I already have low night cortisol.

I take rhodiola and ginseng, but I am not sure if it would be better to take it at morning or at night? Does anybody have any idea or suggestions about that? Could be that somehow related also to thyroid?

morning:

K Kortizol 13,391 (expected levels 1,85 14,57) ng/mL

night:

K Kortizol 0,449 (expected levels 0,33 - 3,33) ng/mL

M Melatonin 2,829 pg/mL (expected levels 5-25)

5dbc84fc8a8e78e4db7293b58efdde32

(120)

on May 23, 2013
at 10:47 PM

methylb12 is more effective, especially the liquid under the tongue dropper or injects

9b0a4701e373d4dd13831cfb9b13f42d

(1677)

on May 23, 2013
at 05:27 PM

"When all you have is a hammer all the world is a nail." Having said that are you going to sleep easily and waking up earlier than youd like? If so try Benfotiamine.

5c6c6bb2bf7021e15222d9deaf341afc

(0)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:36 PM

I think it is too high and too low, that is what I am saying :). It is not just a problem that I can not fall into sleep. Sometimes I fall into sleep and suddenly wake up 1 or 2 hours latter.

5c6c6bb2bf7021e15222d9deaf341afc

(0)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:33 PM

I already have high B-12 levels, a bit above the expected levels, that is why I am not sure if I should add it more.

2edfcc5c8044bbb4f22ba6ea4289f592

(1398)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:17 PM

If I am correct in understanding what you are saying, your cortisol is still high in the morning and low at night correct? Generally? In general, this is what we want to see. I would look at your sleep habits and overall nutrition before messing with supplements and worrying about this stuff. You could also take some magnesium before bed (natural calm or zma) which can help with relaxation and sleep.

5c6c6bb2bf7021e15222d9deaf341afc

(0)

on May 23, 2013
at 03:51 PM

Mistake, I meant to say top of the expected levels for morning and button of expected levels for nights.

5c6c6bb2bf7021e15222d9deaf341afc

(0)

on May 23, 2013
at 03:49 PM

But the thing is that my morning level is just on the border of the minimum of expected values for morning levels and in night just on the top border of the expected values for night levels. So I am at the bottom of the bottom and the top of the top if you understand what I mean.

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2 Answers

1
Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:29 PM

You could possibly try taking some B-12.

Effect of Vitamin B12 on Performance and Circadian Rhythems in Normal Subjects: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v15/n5/pdf/1380492a.pdf

I personally started taking the NOW Methyl B-12 (1000mcg) lozenges not for sleep specifically, but I have to say I haven't had a poor night for some time.

"No toxic or adverse effects have been associated with large intakes of vitamin B12 from food or supplements in healthy people." http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminB12/

5c6c6bb2bf7021e15222d9deaf341afc

(0)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:33 PM

I already have high B-12 levels, a bit above the expected levels, that is why I am not sure if I should add it more.

5dbc84fc8a8e78e4db7293b58efdde32

(120)

on May 23, 2013
at 10:47 PM

methylb12 is more effective, especially the liquid under the tongue dropper or injects

1
2edfcc5c8044bbb4f22ba6ea4289f592

(1398)

on May 23, 2013
at 02:01 PM

Low cortisol at night and high cortisol in the morning is exactly what you want for proper sleep. High cortisol frees up fatty acids and glucose for your cells to use for energy, which is what wakes you up in the morning. Low cortisol helps you relax and fall asleep.

The low melatonin could be an issue. I wouldn't suggest supplementing melatonin every night, but maybe 3-4 nights a week could be beneficial and not have the effect of suppressing your endogenous production. Too much light exposure (specifically blue light light that from screens) will prevent your brain from producing melatonin, so I would attack that first.

Before messing around with supplements, you need to look at your sleep habits. Don't look at computer, phone, or TV screens within an hour of bedtime (or ideally at all after dark). Slee in a completely dark room. Get into a certain routine you do every night before bed. Do something relaxing (reading) for the hour before you go to bed. Getting exposed to some bright sunlight and having a high protein meal right when you wake up and also help you normalize your circadian rhythms.

I don't know much about rhodiola or ginseng, but I'm fairly certain both are useful for increasing energy. Common sense dictates you Not take them near bedtime. Also nothing you mentioned gives me any thought of a thyroid issue.

5c6c6bb2bf7021e15222d9deaf341afc

(0)

on May 23, 2013
at 03:49 PM

But the thing is that my morning level is just on the border of the minimum of expected values for morning levels and in night just on the top border of the expected values for night levels. So I am at the bottom of the bottom and the top of the top if you understand what I mean.

5c6c6bb2bf7021e15222d9deaf341afc

(0)

on May 23, 2013
at 03:51 PM

Mistake, I meant to say top of the expected levels for morning and button of expected levels for nights.

5c6c6bb2bf7021e15222d9deaf341afc

(0)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:36 PM

I think it is too high and too low, that is what I am saying :). It is not just a problem that I can not fall into sleep. Sometimes I fall into sleep and suddenly wake up 1 or 2 hours latter.

2edfcc5c8044bbb4f22ba6ea4289f592

(1398)

on May 23, 2013
at 04:17 PM

If I am correct in understanding what you are saying, your cortisol is still high in the morning and low at night correct? Generally? In general, this is what we want to see. I would look at your sleep habits and overall nutrition before messing with supplements and worrying about this stuff. You could also take some magnesium before bed (natural calm or zma) which can help with relaxation and sleep.

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