18

votes

How does a ketogenic diet affect cortisol levels?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created November 04, 2011 at 5:20 AM

I've read on different blogs that intermittent fasting puts a strain on the adrenals since it requires them to release cortisol to maintain steady blood sugar levels. Since a ketogenic diet has a similar effect on the body as fasting, does this also strain the adrenals? Does this diet require the adrenals to release enough cortisol to break down our muscles to provide enough amino acids for use in gluconeogenesis? Or do cortisol levels remain stable since there aren't insulin spikes like there are when eating foods high in sugar or starch? I guess it comes down to this question: how much does gluconeogenesis rely on cortisol during a state of fasting or on a ketogenic diet?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 10, 2014
at 07:12 AM

although not on ketogenic diets, interestingly one of the studies you linked did find cortisol related differences between the sexes,

"CPR (cortisol production rate) and free cortisol levels were, however, significantly higher in men than women. In addition, 24-h plasma free cortisol levels were increased with age in association with increased CPR, independent of body size.

This increase in hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis activity may play a role in the alterations in body composition and central fat distribution in men vs. women and with aging" pubmed/14715862

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 10, 2014
at 07:08 AM

thx Ambimorph, did you find any differences between the sexes. i was just wondering this the other day...ie. you hear anecdotes of some women not 'handling' some forms of fasting as well as men, which made me wonder if anything similar applies to ketogenic diets.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on May 02, 2013
at 02:56 AM

Maybe you're not as advanced as you believe then. http://www.jackkruse.com/quantum-biology-4-metabolic-syndrome/

Medium avatar

(115)

on April 30, 2013
at 02:12 PM

Can you please hold that, while I'll go and get two PhDs degrees to understand what you wrote. Note, I'm pretty scientific to begin with. But this was just awkward.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 30, 2012
at 10:03 PM

6 0f one half dozen of another. With Keto/Low-carb Vs. Tuber Paleo. It's your metabolism that's broken not the food. If you try Keto while having poor fat burning potential it will be stressful. If you eat tubers and are broken you will have wild blood sugar swings and stalls. Pick one that is the most tasty, most easily scheduled and least stressful and stick with it combined with light exercise. This will take months, not days/weeks.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 05, 2012
at 02:00 AM

Thanks again Quilt. Always with the sharing. Maybe if we paid you $3000 you'd be more helpful.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 05, 2012
at 01:59 AM

Well isn't that special.

6e37f170409bc1b100c880c57508c5fd

on November 06, 2011
at 02:26 PM

Well, I did the normal Paleo for a few mths before tweaking since normal Paleo wasn't dropping the wt everyone raves about. Unfortunately, when you do down the Paleo path you don't read all your options in a nice organized manner. So when you read about IF, you try it! When you read about Primal workouts, you try it. Unfortunately, if you have existing cortisol or thyroid issue you aren't savvy about and don't realize VLC can adversely affect you, you end up trying crazy protocols.

241300786a83dcb0360f38414cf8d693

(146)

on November 06, 2011
at 02:29 AM

Thanks. I like your response for the same reason.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 05, 2011
at 05:22 PM

Sorry. Didn't mean to be weird (or rude for that matter). "Weight" just seems irrelevant here -- Sandra is winning, and it would be sad for her to miss that because of relying on a poor measurement.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 05, 2011
at 01:24 PM

Rose that is because you have likely retrained your arcuate nucleus. The leptin rx is for people who are just starting out who paleo 2.0 has just not worked. Its not for everyone its for those with problems. Look at every board.....they are everywhere.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 05, 2011
at 01:22 PM

Loon to answer you i believe their are other reasons for your issues and not your diet. Without testing its just guessing. Some people like guessing. I dont.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 05, 2011
at 01:09 AM

And there is Lex Rooker that has been 100% raw meat, 15% protein, 85% fat for over 5 years. http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/lex's-journal/1390/ He is doing just fine. He eats once a day about 11am. That is his only meal per day.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on November 05, 2011
at 01:05 AM

I'm not denying that some people have sleep problems and other issues on a keto diet, but I just want to make sure at least one person who hasn't had problems speaks up. I've been keto and ultra-keto (VLC/ZC) for over four years now, and the only times I've had health issues have been the few times I've experimented with adding carbs back. I sleep fine, and have plenty of energy, without thinking about timing my meals or anything like that.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:59 AM

And sleep problems abate pretty easily with the meal timing.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:59 AM

+1 Sandra, but weird comments, huh?

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:58 AM

Loon, it seems that with a ketogenic and the Leptin Reset meal timing to correspond with circadian rhythm, all those problems you experienced would abate. Granted, if not enough protein is consumed to make ketones to fuel the brain, then there are initial problems,,,but easily handled with protein and a little bit of yam or sweet potato...but not much.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:17 AM

...thats sleeplessness. Guess even people who are 100% correct can do typos ;-)

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:15 AM

while on Schwarzbein, moods and stress level were great, but it made me flabby. With Rosedale, anxiety, sleeplessness and rapid weight loss, but the first couple of days are really stressful and then it evens out to a much better place. But I think if you are on the edge with sleep dep, keto can put some people over the edge.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:12 AM

..I am just finding it hard reconciling all this with what Dr. Schwarzbein says on the subject. Perhaps you are both seeing a different subset of people? Or do you think it is because she NEVER allows ketosis and so hasn't explored the territory extensively?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:04 AM

@quilt, this explanation leaves me flat, since my own N=1 is that the keto diet, at least initially, leads to problems. And, extreme stress and the sleepness that sometimes accompanies it can be immediately fixed by a bunch of carbs. Could it be that there is a huge difference in response depending on whether one is keto-adapted or not?

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:54 PM

Gee,where are all the haters today? Not one evidence based medicine citation! The Quilt must not know what he is talking about.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:08 PM

The more rostral centers however will react to balance the reaction unless the stimulus of the release exceeds capacity of the brains hormonal response. This can be measured by HRV, bioimpedence, biofeedback and by hormone panels. This is precisely what happens in LR......it leads to massive adrenal resistance because it over comes the brains ability to respond due to magnitude or the chronicity of the stimulus. Timing is a huge factor in all cortisol disease pathology. This context is a prerequisite to understanding how 2 interpret the labs and hormonal response. It took me 10 yrs to get

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:03 PM

Cranial sympathetic release is most rostral in the CNS. Where are adrenally driven release is most distal in the body. There is alot in between. Sympathetic pain called causalgia is another condition with huge distal cortisol release around the IMLCC in the spinal cord.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:01 PM

Chris the pathway is the same but where the signal comes from is not the sympathetic centers in the brain. In other words the cortisol can be gut derived in dysbiosis. When the brain is on a ketogenic fuel source I am telling the adrenals are not being burnt out. This is a total myth. But one can be on a ketogenic diet and have huge cortisol spikes.....see a pituitary patient, morbidly obese person, A person with an autoimmune disease that is not brain based, kidney disease, liver disease......etc.

Medium avatar

on November 04, 2011
at 08:40 PM

You mention cortisol being driven higher by pathways other than the sympathetic NS, but what are those pathways and how are they affected differently by a ketogenic diet vs a diet higher in carbs?

Medium avatar

on November 04, 2011
at 08:38 PM

Thanks for your detailed answer Dr. K. I'm with you on most of the biochem, but are you saying that by producing more ROS, glucose, and therefore a non-ketogenic diet, is more inflammatory and requires more cortisol to reduce the inflammation? Basically it seems you're saying that the answer is either you're LR or LS, and if you're the latter then your mitochondria are efficient enough on a ketogenic diet to produce energy without having blood glucose levels fluctuate significantly and thus leave the adrenals unaffected.

C0fcb48d7da4f76fac17318efd2cd6b8

(4069)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:39 PM

I like it because of ain't and adrenals in the same sentence.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:58 PM

Whoa! You lost size and you're still concerned about weight? I couldn't care less about my scale weight except as a poor proxy for fat mass. What do you think makes you look hotter: a slimmer waist or a lower scale weight? Isn't your size the whole point?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:13 PM

Its an organ that makes up 2% of our weight and pulls 20% of our cardiac output. It is the quintesential energy hog. Anything that spares it energy makes it work better. And this biochemical truth is laid out above and is well known. Another myth out there is the brain needs exogenous glucose. No it does not ever. It runs perfectly fine on a complete ketogenic diet. In fact all mental functions improve on it because of how it uncouples CMRO2 from CBF. The brain can still draw any glucose it might use from the liver. P

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:09 PM

If the liver is also LS and not LR there is no gluconeogenic signal of hypoglycemia and the adrenals are not run ragged. If you are LR or you are overtraining and driving your cortisol up via another pathway then you may cause trouble. I see many believe that ketogenic diets cause adrenal problems. I dont see it and I have a ton of people on them who are LR too. People who believe this seem to forget that their are other pathways that can drive cortisol higher besides the central sympathetic pathways. Ketogenic diets are energy sparing and this is why the brain works better on them.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:03 PM

Cortisol can be elevated for many reasons but the key point when considering a diets effect on the brain is about what is happening at the inner mitochondrial membrane. This ultimately will determine the gene transcription (epigenetic swtiches) and the hormone response. Central effects of a ketogenic diet is to decrease sympathetic outflow.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:59 PM

I disagree with this too.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:58 PM

I disagree with this.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:59 PM

A ketogenic diet decrease the energy mismatch and it lowers the sympathetic outflows out of the brain that innervate the adrenal gland. These do not stimulate the adrenals, they infact protect them at a resting state.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:29 PM

instead of trying weird protocols why dont you just do normal paleo i.e. 3 consistent meals made up of fruit, meat, tubers etc. All the fasting and restriction isn't helping imo

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8 Answers

best answer

11
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:58 PM

Chris excellent question. Plus one for it. In the brain, Neurons determine how much CBF they need based upon their own metabolic demands. CBF is tightly coupled to CMRO2 given the wide variations in blood pressures. A ketogenic diet works by uncoupling CBF from CMRO2! This means that eating a ketogenic diet allows a higher CBF while having a lower resting cerebral metabolism. Carbohydrates and proteins have never shown this benefit in any study I know of testing cerebral autoregulation. This means that a low carb, high MCT fat diet confers a significant metabolic advantage to the brain at all times. The brain directly controls all efferent and afferent pathways of metabolism via its leptin receptor stimulation. The implications are big if that receptor is not functioning because the outflow of that stimulus will not match the desired response of the 20 trillion cells it controls. This is what people refer to as LR. I don't. LR for me is a receptor dysfunction issue. Remember that food is really only a substrate source of electrons for our mitochondria???s electron transport chain in organic chemistry terms. This also means that somehow the electrons that come from these ketone bodies affects the neuronal ATP requirement of cerebral mitochondria.

Matt Lalonde and Lucas Tafur have posted on this topic as well. During oxidative phosphorylation, almost all of the reducing equivalents produced by glucose metabolism in the Krebs cycle are in the form of NADH with the exception of the succinate dehydrogenase step, which takes place in mitochondrial complex II and makes FADH2. Metabolism of one molecule of glucose produces an NADH:FADH2 ratio of 5:1 whereas fatty acid metabolism in beta oxidation and the Krebs cycle will produce a ratio of ???3:1 depending on the length of the fatty acid. NADH is oxidized only in mitochondrial complex I whereas FADH2 is oxidized only in complex II. Complex I produces more reactive oxygen species than complex II. As such, production of a specific number of ATP molecules from glucose has the potential to generate more reactive oxygen species compared to the generation of the same number of ATP molecules from fatty acids.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:17 AM

...thats sleeplessness. Guess even people who are 100% correct can do typos ;-)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:03 PM

Cortisol can be elevated for many reasons but the key point when considering a diets effect on the brain is about what is happening at the inner mitochondrial membrane. This ultimately will determine the gene transcription (epigenetic swtiches) and the hormone response. Central effects of a ketogenic diet is to decrease sympathetic outflow.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 02:59 PM

A ketogenic diet decrease the energy mismatch and it lowers the sympathetic outflows out of the brain that innervate the adrenal gland. These do not stimulate the adrenals, they infact protect them at a resting state.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:09 PM

If the liver is also LS and not LR there is no gluconeogenic signal of hypoglycemia and the adrenals are not run ragged. If you are LR or you are overtraining and driving your cortisol up via another pathway then you may cause trouble. I see many believe that ketogenic diets cause adrenal problems. I dont see it and I have a ton of people on them who are LR too. People who believe this seem to forget that their are other pathways that can drive cortisol higher besides the central sympathetic pathways. Ketogenic diets are energy sparing and this is why the brain works better on them.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 04:13 PM

Its an organ that makes up 2% of our weight and pulls 20% of our cardiac output. It is the quintesential energy hog. Anything that spares it energy makes it work better. And this biochemical truth is laid out above and is well known. Another myth out there is the brain needs exogenous glucose. No it does not ever. It runs perfectly fine on a complete ketogenic diet. In fact all mental functions improve on it because of how it uncouples CMRO2 from CBF. The brain can still draw any glucose it might use from the liver. P

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:01 PM

Chris the pathway is the same but where the signal comes from is not the sympathetic centers in the brain. In other words the cortisol can be gut derived in dysbiosis. When the brain is on a ketogenic fuel source I am telling the adrenals are not being burnt out. This is a total myth. But one can be on a ketogenic diet and have huge cortisol spikes.....see a pituitary patient, morbidly obese person, A person with an autoimmune disease that is not brain based, kidney disease, liver disease......etc.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:04 AM

@quilt, this explanation leaves me flat, since my own N=1 is that the keto diet, at least initially, leads to problems. And, extreme stress and the sleepness that sometimes accompanies it can be immediately fixed by a bunch of carbs. Could it be that there is a huge difference in response depending on whether one is keto-adapted or not?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:15 AM

while on Schwarzbein, moods and stress level were great, but it made me flabby. With Rosedale, anxiety, sleeplessness and rapid weight loss, but the first couple of days are really stressful and then it evens out to a much better place. But I think if you are on the edge with sleep dep, keto can put some people over the edge.

Medium avatar

on November 04, 2011
at 08:40 PM

You mention cortisol being driven higher by pathways other than the sympathetic NS, but what are those pathways and how are they affected differently by a ketogenic diet vs a diet higher in carbs?

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:58 AM

Loon, it seems that with a ketogenic and the Leptin Reset meal timing to correspond with circadian rhythm, all those problems you experienced would abate. Granted, if not enough protein is consumed to make ketones to fuel the brain, then there are initial problems,,,but easily handled with protein and a little bit of yam or sweet potato...but not much.

Medium avatar

on November 04, 2011
at 08:38 PM

Thanks for your detailed answer Dr. K. I'm with you on most of the biochem, but are you saying that by producing more ROS, glucose, and therefore a non-ketogenic diet, is more inflammatory and requires more cortisol to reduce the inflammation? Basically it seems you're saying that the answer is either you're LR or LS, and if you're the latter then your mitochondria are efficient enough on a ketogenic diet to produce energy without having blood glucose levels fluctuate significantly and thus leave the adrenals unaffected.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 05, 2011
at 01:22 PM

Loon to answer you i believe their are other reasons for your issues and not your diet. Without testing its just guessing. Some people like guessing. I dont.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:54 PM

Gee,where are all the haters today? Not one evidence based medicine citation! The Quilt must not know what he is talking about.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:08 PM

The more rostral centers however will react to balance the reaction unless the stimulus of the release exceeds capacity of the brains hormonal response. This can be measured by HRV, bioimpedence, biofeedback and by hormone panels. This is precisely what happens in LR......it leads to massive adrenal resistance because it over comes the brains ability to respond due to magnitude or the chronicity of the stimulus. Timing is a huge factor in all cortisol disease pathology. This context is a prerequisite to understanding how 2 interpret the labs and hormonal response. It took me 10 yrs to get

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on November 05, 2011
at 01:05 AM

I'm not denying that some people have sleep problems and other issues on a keto diet, but I just want to make sure at least one person who hasn't had problems speaks up. I've been keto and ultra-keto (VLC/ZC) for over four years now, and the only times I've had health issues have been the few times I've experimented with adding carbs back. I sleep fine, and have plenty of energy, without thinking about timing my meals or anything like that.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 05, 2011
at 01:24 PM

Rose that is because you have likely retrained your arcuate nucleus. The leptin rx is for people who are just starting out who paleo 2.0 has just not worked. Its not for everyone its for those with problems. Look at every board.....they are everywhere.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:59 AM

And sleep problems abate pretty easily with the meal timing.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 11:03 PM

Cranial sympathetic release is most rostral in the CNS. Where are adrenally driven release is most distal in the body. There is alot in between. Sympathetic pain called causalgia is another condition with huge distal cortisol release around the IMLCC in the spinal cord.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:12 AM

..I am just finding it hard reconciling all this with what Dr. Schwarzbein says on the subject. Perhaps you are both seeing a different subset of people? Or do you think it is because she NEVER allows ketosis and so hasn't explored the territory extensively?

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 05, 2011
at 01:09 AM

And there is Lex Rooker that has been 100% raw meat, 15% protein, 85% fat for over 5 years. http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/journals/lex's-journal/1390/ He is doing just fine. He eats once a day about 11am. That is his only meal per day.

Medium avatar

(115)

on April 30, 2013
at 02:12 PM

Can you please hold that, while I'll go and get two PhDs degrees to understand what you wrote. Note, I'm pretty scientific to begin with. But this was just awkward.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on May 02, 2013
at 02:56 AM

Maybe you're not as advanced as you believe then. http://www.jackkruse.com/quantum-biology-4-metabolic-syndrome/

6
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:23 PM

There is a detailed question and answer about this topic here.

5
Medium avatar

on November 04, 2011
at 02:44 PM

Keto per se is an adrenals stressor. That doesn't make keto bad; not all "adrenal stress" is problematic. There's a ratcheting effect, in both directions. Add insufficient sleep/rest to keto and you can skirt cortical overload. Adequate sleep, rest, serene time, will mitigate stress including adrenal. There are very few unlinear causal chains that exist outside of the mind's desire to postulate them. Which is to say: causality is almost always invariably multifactorial.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:58 PM

I disagree with this.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 05, 2012
at 01:59 AM

Well isn't that special.

3
D89511137c1849427593b3ef172578cb

(395)

on November 05, 2011
at 11:49 AM

To Sandra Brigham (and others):

You are on a road to big FAIL if you keep fasting when having thyroid issues. I've went through the same.

You should have a minimum, I repeat, a minimum of 3 meals a day not to further screw up your thyroid and adrenals. And understand this: it's the calories, not the fasting, there is nothing magical going on.

Even though meal frequency does not affect body composition (looking good naked), it can affect your health. Less frequent meals and fasting push up your cortisol even though some people may say it doesn't, much like Martin Berkhan cherry picking studies stating cortisol doesn't elevate with IF, to support his whole fan boy base.

Remember there's money to be had with sites, people, supps and consultations and communities like our own. I'm not here to take away your money, just making sure you don't end up doing the mistakes I did.

0
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on February 10, 2014
at 04:04 AM

Zooko and I have written a new post on this topic. The Ketogenic Diet's Effect on Cortisol Metabolism.

"Summary

There is some reason to believe that cortisol dysregulation is a key underlying factor in metabolic syndrome [10], [11]. The dysregulation has a particular pattern that seems to be caused by a tissue-specific expression of the enzyme 11β-HSD1.

There is a belief among some researchers that ketogenic diets worsen cortisol metabolism (which could lead to metabolic syndrome and heart disease), but an examination of the specific pattern of cortisol metabolism related to metabolic sydrome shows the opposite.

This is what should have been expected in the first place, since ketogenic diets have already been shown to improve insulin sensitivity (the defining symptom of metabolic syndrome) in repeated randomized controlled trials.

One mechanism by which keto diet improves metabolic syndrome may be its beneficial effect on cortisol metabolism."

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 10, 2014
at 07:08 AM

thx Ambimorph, did you find any differences between the sexes. i was just wondering this the other day...ie. you hear anecdotes of some women not 'handling' some forms of fasting as well as men, which made me wonder if anything similar applies to ketogenic diets.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on February 10, 2014
at 07:12 AM

although not on ketogenic diets, interestingly one of the studies you linked did find cortisol related differences between the sexes,

"CPR (cortisol production rate) and free cortisol levels were, however, significantly higher in men than women. In addition, 24-h plasma free cortisol levels were increased with age in association with increased CPR, independent of body size.

This increase in hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis activity may play a role in the alterations in body composition and central fat distribution in men vs. women and with aging" pubmed/14715862

0
Cf938ac46500e200c97f6adbb3365f64

(324)

on April 05, 2012
at 08:01 PM

is there ever a situation where the cortisol/adrenal stress of a ketogenic diet may in fact be a helpful balance to someone who may have lazy adrenals does the term lazy adrenals exist because i know you can almost use the prefix hypo or hyper to most anything in science and i think balance is the key.

this is compared to the above a very layman post i will admit but less science more understanding of the real life picture can provide useful indeed.

ive read about carbs being parasympathetic in general and that parasympathetic dominant types would get a parasympathetic overload when ingesting carbs compared to sympathetic types.

adopting this cns/ans approach to ketogenic diets seems to explain why carbs make me sleepy all the time and a ketogenic diet makes me feel like i just drank eight cups of coffee.

but i would like to hear from the scientist on this one it just seems that to say these cortisol related issues are bad which occur on a ketogenic diet may actually be beneficial to someone who needs such an effect to balance out their already low cortisol i mean it has some use or it wouldn't even exist. and most things in the body revolve around finding balance so i thought i would inquire along these purely non scientific speculative ramblings

0
6e37f170409bc1b100c880c57508c5fd

on November 04, 2011
at 12:18 PM

Good question. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. I've been gaining weight not losing! The only thing I hadn't given up was dairy (I had given up milk though). So after 10 mths Archevore, I stopped dairy and in 2 wks lost 4 lbs and then stalled for 2 more wks. I reintroduced dairy and have not gained back. Dr. Kruse suggested thyroid issues might be at work. I've been reading the pop thyroid and adrenal books, websites, etc. and I'm very much concerned about stressing my adrenals too. I feel much better eating 50-75g protein within 3 hrs of waking and am sated until dinner at 6:30. I had been IF using a window from 2pm to 7pm but I found myself stressing physically. I was also VLC to LC and just started increasing at dinner time to see if I'd feel better. Also gave up my Primal beginner workouts as I gained weight in the following wks! I was doing 2 twenty minute WOs/wk, then cut it to once a week and even that fatigued me for a whole wk after. It gets soooo complicated...and I know my docs would never entertain my musings with Paleo, thyroid, adrenals, underlying immune issues, etc. Can't afford to see my neuropath either. Not sure how we recommend Paleo to anyone if we can't get it to work for us...I only had 20 lbs to lose and I gained 4; albeit it may all be muscle as body measurements keep going down. But trying to understand muscle gain is as complicated as trying to understand underlying thyroid, adrenal, immune issues on Paleo.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on November 04, 2011
at 12:29 PM

instead of trying weird protocols why dont you just do normal paleo i.e. 3 consistent meals made up of fruit, meat, tubers etc. All the fasting and restriction isn't helping imo

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 04, 2011
at 05:58 PM

Whoa! You lost size and you're still concerned about weight? I couldn't care less about my scale weight except as a poor proxy for fat mass. What do you think makes you look hotter: a slimmer waist or a lower scale weight? Isn't your size the whole point?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 05, 2011
at 05:22 PM

Sorry. Didn't mean to be weird (or rude for that matter). "Weight" just seems irrelevant here -- Sandra is winning, and it would be sad for her to miss that because of relying on a poor measurement.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on November 05, 2011
at 12:59 AM

+1 Sandra, but weird comments, huh?

6e37f170409bc1b100c880c57508c5fd

on November 06, 2011
at 02:26 PM

Well, I did the normal Paleo for a few mths before tweaking since normal Paleo wasn't dropping the wt everyone raves about. Unfortunately, when you do down the Paleo path you don't read all your options in a nice organized manner. So when you read about IF, you try it! When you read about Primal workouts, you try it. Unfortunately, if you have existing cortisol or thyroid issue you aren't savvy about and don't realize VLC can adversely affect you, you end up trying crazy protocols.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 30, 2012
at 10:03 PM

6 0f one half dozen of another. With Keto/Low-carb Vs. Tuber Paleo. It's your metabolism that's broken not the food. If you try Keto while having poor fat burning potential it will be stressful. If you eat tubers and are broken you will have wild blood sugar swings and stalls. Pick one that is the most tasty, most easily scheduled and least stressful and stick with it combined with light exercise. This will take months, not days/weeks.

0
241300786a83dcb0360f38414cf8d693

(146)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:28 AM

I have no categorical proof, but I guarantee if you are in keto, your adrenals ain't exactly relaxed.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 04, 2011
at 03:59 PM

I disagree with this too.

C0fcb48d7da4f76fac17318efd2cd6b8

(4069)

on November 04, 2011
at 06:39 PM

I like it because of ain't and adrenals in the same sentence.

241300786a83dcb0360f38414cf8d693

(146)

on November 06, 2011
at 02:29 AM

Thanks. I like your response for the same reason.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 05, 2012
at 02:00 AM

Thanks again Quilt. Always with the sharing. Maybe if we paid you $3000 you'd be more helpful.

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