2

votes

Hack this article, mummies with clogged arteries?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 11, 2013 at 2:53 AM

This article found evidence that mummies had clogged arteries? Does this help or refute the paleo argument? Did these mummies live off of grains probably anyway since they were part of a civilized diet?

http://download.thelancet.com/flatcontentassets/pdfs/S014067361360598X.pdf

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on March 22, 2013
at 04:23 AM

What's funny is dogs have a terrible diet courtesy of industrial, processed pet foods we feed them daily. Yet from what I understand, dogs rare suffer heart attacks. But they do become diabetic frequently. I'd be curious to know if they have atherosclerosis. I suspect they do but never severe enough to require stents!

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:06 AM

Nah, not really. I dont' think there really is a diet that keeps plaques away 100%. Some vegetarians and vegans believe that but I don't think that's the case. It's like the graying of your hair or skin wrinkles.

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:00 AM

Nah, not really. From what I understand the Inuits also have atheroscelorosis. What it shows is that plaques may be inevitable. As long as you keep inflammation under control, however, and you're don't have FH, you should be ok. It's true that plaques are the underlying reason for heart attacks and stroke. But inflammation is the catalyst. Without that, your plaques probably will not break off and cause thrombosis, unless your atherosclerosis is out of control.

5dd50f78f47b8848d93724d6eb38d4c1

(907)

on March 12, 2013
at 06:22 AM

Cordains selling point of his diet on heard disease is kind of insane. I mean, wouldn't it be a better idea would be to adopt a diet that that prevents or reverses atherosclerosis?

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on March 12, 2013
at 04:31 AM

A lot of wild animals have been shown to develop athersclerosis.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on March 12, 2013
at 04:20 AM

Not for the Unganan, who were hunter/gatherers though. These were using their ancestral Paleolithic Inuit diet at the time of their death (no introduction to Western foods or grains, these came later).

68655ec9711d207d69a63ebf96b37573

on March 11, 2013
at 11:45 AM

Helps the paleo argument, because the Egyptian society was Neolithic, not paleolithic (which was totally over by 8,000 BC at the latest, earlier in the levant and middle east) Paleolithic = nomadic hunter-gatherers small groups, limited technology, neolithic = sedentary agrarian societies, towns, pottery, more technology etc. etc. etc.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on March 11, 2013
at 02:54 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_cuisine

Frontpage book

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7 Answers

3
D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on March 11, 2013
at 06:30 AM

This is what people have been saying for years. Atherosclerosis isn't really the problem, unless you have too much of it; inflammation is. Atherosclerosis AND inflammation are required to precipitate a heart attack or stroke. This is why being less anal about atherosclerosis and focusing more on manifestations of inflammation is the right approach. Processsed carbs, PUFA, trans fats, stress, autoimmunity, gut permeability, and raised cortisol all cause inflammation.

We've known for years that the Inuits suffered from atherosclerosis. Yet they rarely suffered heart attacks. Why? Loren Cordain spoke about this. Because they don't have much inflammation.

Now if you have familial hypercholesterolimia, your atherosclerosis could become severe enough, resulting in stenosis. Or you could be ApoE4 and you might have to be on higher carb Paleo. That's a long-term risk factor to contend with. But then it's your genes. The vast majority of coronary events are not caused by out of control atherosclerosis; the vast majority are caused by a blood clot resulting from inflammation. The fat guy on a 500 gram processed carb diet or an Alberto Salazar who runs a marathon every week will have enough inflammation to have a coronary. But not Joe Sixpack who's LDL may be 150 but has trigs at 60.

The recent shift in thinking among certain people who believe that all atherosclerosis should be avoided is wrongheaded. LDL-P is no more important that your HS CRP or ESR. This is also the reason why your [Total Cholesterol / HDL] and [Trigs / HDL] are still the most important biomarkers of cardiovascular health, not LDL-P.

Atherosclerosis is unavoidable in many cases. As the article says, it is probably due aging. But it will not necessarily kill you. It's inflammation that will kill you. To have a C (Coronary), you need A (Atherosclerosis) and B (Inflammation). And this is no breaking news. We've known this for a long time.

5dd50f78f47b8848d93724d6eb38d4c1

(907)

on March 12, 2013
at 06:22 AM

Cordains selling point of his diet on heard disease is kind of insane. I mean, wouldn't it be a better idea would be to adopt a diet that that prevents or reverses atherosclerosis?

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on March 18, 2013
at 02:06 AM

Nah, not really. I dont' think there really is a diet that keeps plaques away 100%. Some vegetarians and vegans believe that but I don't think that's the case. It's like the graying of your hair or skin wrinkles.

3
Medium avatar

on March 11, 2013
at 05:13 AM

Found the paper in question and added to the OP. Not just Egyptians, apparently. Hard to draw conclusions based on the fact that for the hunter-gatherers, heavy life-long smoke inhalation was the norm.

2
5dd50f78f47b8848d93724d6eb38d4c1

on March 11, 2013
at 06:25 AM

It doesn't help or refute. People will draw their own conclusions based on their agendas.

Vegans will say it was from the animal products. The paleo crews will say it was from the bread. yawn.

2
B864abcd8213344e4b6273ec3cbd11ee

on March 11, 2013
at 03:04 AM

helps. main source of calories in the diet was bread.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on March 12, 2013
at 04:20 AM

Not for the Unganan, who were hunter/gatherers though. These were using their ancestral Paleolithic Inuit diet at the time of their death (no introduction to Western foods or grains, these came later).

0
7714bf431a963b7eb1e13d6646a3b4c4

on March 12, 2013
at 04:06 AM

It's sex hormones. Women lose estrogen and men lose testosterone as they age. Both are protective and in abundance during reproductive years. Human primates and some non-human primates are the only species on the planet that get to enjoy living past reproductive age where both of those hormones are in decreased quantities. In the book "Lights Out" (which is a very good read and advocates low-carb, paleo types of diets), they say nature tries to figure out a way to "take you out" past reproductive age since in most instances, you're a liability to the species and to the natural balance.

0
4e184df9c1ed38f61febc5d6cf031921

(5005)

on March 11, 2013
at 08:51 AM

I'd be really interested to know if other mammals, living to old age, develop atherosclerosis - or is it just humans? If they do - then I'd say it is an ageing process and to a large extent, inevitable.

If they DON"T, then I'd want to know the main thing we eat which is different to other mammals. And the answer would surely be - cooked food?

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on March 12, 2013
at 04:31 AM

A lot of wild animals have been shown to develop athersclerosis.

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on March 22, 2013
at 04:23 AM

What's funny is dogs have a terrible diet courtesy of industrial, processed pet foods we feed them daily. Yet from what I understand, dogs rare suffer heart attacks. But they do become diabetic frequently. I'd be curious to know if they have atherosclerosis. I suspect they do but never severe enough to require stents!

0
Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 11, 2013
at 04:19 AM

Yea, ancient Egyptians also knew cancer an diabetes and ate significant portions of bread. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/27/ancient-egyptian-mummy-hand-schuller-christian-disease_n_1459929.html . I'd say it helps.

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