3

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Does anyone know the conversion rates of:?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 15, 2013 at 3:42 PM

Vitamin A from plants -> Retinol and Vitamin k1 -> K2?

I've had some real trouble finding the k1->k2 conversion rate, the best I found was Mark Sisson saying it's 10:1 but he didn't cite any of it so I'm left dubious.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on April 22, 2013
at 03:56 PM

Also very low doses of k2 are needed in the body. And that k2 isn't necessarily needed in the liver. Just because the liver doesn't use much k2 doesn't mean the body doesn't get enough of k2 from k1?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on April 22, 2013
at 03:53 PM

Lol, Mercola. But yes, I'm definitely aware that EVERYONE says that the k1->k2 converstion rate is insufficient. I just can't find any clinical evidence of this. It just seems to be a persistent rumor from what I can see. The best I've found is a study that showed supplemental k1 vs supplemental k2 in rats. The k2 was protective but they were giving 50mg of k2 vs 5 mg of k1. But I can't find anything that's not just hearsay on the conversion rate, especially from whole foods, which I'd like to think would be different than straight vitamin supplementation.

582e89904fef55ad5c7dac673653ef8c

(281)

on April 21, 2013
at 09:09 PM

"Although your body can convert K1 into K2, studies show that the amount of K2 produced by this process alone is insufficient. Even if you are consuming enough K1, your body uses most of it to make clotting factors, leaving little remaining for your bones. In other words, your liver preferentially uses vitamin K1 to activate clotting factors, while most of your other tissues preferentially use K2." http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/08/26/this-could-be-even-bigger-than-the-vitamin-d-discovery.aspx I pulled it straight from that.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:33 PM

if our livers prefer k1, why is the conversion of k2 insufficient? isn't it meant to be low. I'm not positive, but i think you may be conflating "low" with "insufficient"

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:29 PM

What I would like to know if people with caretosis turn orange because they've ALREADY converted all the beta carotene to retinol that is needed, or because it's just not converting. My guess is the former because people with caretosis get it from eating huge amounts of carotene rich foods (carrots, squash particularly)...plus we're primates,.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:28 PM

What I would like to know if people with caretosis turn orange because they've ALREADY converted all the beta carotene to retinol that is needed, or because it's just not converting. My guess is the former because people with caretosis get it from eating huge amounts of carotene rich foods (carrots, squash particularly).

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on April 20, 2013
at 12:52 PM

Yea I've read tons about k2, you can see on my profile I've asked questions about k2 since I first created my account 6+ months ago. However, in the source you just cited, it showed high k1 and k2 both had the same effect in rats... I haven't found any data on conversion rates in humans from k1 supplementation or from natural food sources. However I have seen evidence that green leafy vegetables decrease risk of CHD by 23% per serving per day. Which to me screams vitamin k. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11412050

582e89904fef55ad5c7dac673653ef8c

(281)

on April 20, 2013
at 11:26 AM

I think we read different things but, inefficient conversion seems to be the consensus.

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3 Answers

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2
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

Pretty freakin' variable, hard to narrow it down I would think. Interdependent on other nutrients as well. Studies on BC to VA showed that the conversion rate was largely dependent on VA levels in the body. VA (retinol) also decreased BC to VA conversion.

I imagine that K1 to K2 is a similar situation.

1
582e89904fef55ad5c7dac673653ef8c

(281)

on April 20, 2013
at 10:06 AM

All vitamins have variable conversion rates specific to the individual. The only thing I've read regarding the K1 to K2 rate was that your liver prefers K1 to stay as K1 and the conversion to K2 is insufficient. You'll have to look that up, I read it too long ago to remember the source.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 20, 2013
at 04:33 PM

if our livers prefer k1, why is the conversion of k2 insufficient? isn't it meant to be low. I'm not positive, but i think you may be conflating "low" with "insufficient"

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on April 22, 2013
at 03:53 PM

Lol, Mercola. But yes, I'm definitely aware that EVERYONE says that the k1->k2 converstion rate is insufficient. I just can't find any clinical evidence of this. It just seems to be a persistent rumor from what I can see. The best I've found is a study that showed supplemental k1 vs supplemental k2 in rats. The k2 was protective but they were giving 50mg of k2 vs 5 mg of k1. But I can't find anything that's not just hearsay on the conversion rate, especially from whole foods, which I'd like to think would be different than straight vitamin supplementation.

582e89904fef55ad5c7dac673653ef8c

(281)

on April 21, 2013
at 09:09 PM

"Although your body can convert K1 into K2, studies show that the amount of K2 produced by this process alone is insufficient. Even if you are consuming enough K1, your body uses most of it to make clotting factors, leaving little remaining for your bones. In other words, your liver preferentially uses vitamin K1 to activate clotting factors, while most of your other tissues preferentially use K2." http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/08/26/this-could-be-even-bigger-than-the-vitamin-d-discovery.aspx I pulled it straight from that.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on April 22, 2013
at 03:56 PM

Also very low doses of k2 are needed in the body. And that k2 isn't necessarily needed in the liver. Just because the liver doesn't use much k2 doesn't mean the body doesn't get enough of k2 from k1?

0
Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

on April 20, 2013
at 11:00 AM

Re k1 and k2, here is a S.Guyanet quote I dug up from a while back:

'Humans don't seem to be very good at making the conversion from K1 to K2 MK-4 (at normal intakes; there are suggestions that at artificially large doses we can do it). That means we need to ensure an adequate K2 MK-4 intake to prevent or reverse arterial calcification'

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com.au/2008/11/can-vitamin-k2-reverse-arterial.html

Beyond this I don't think I've read anything about specific conversion rates; have read that it's pretty inefficient though like Myth said (maybe we read the same thing ...?;) )

582e89904fef55ad5c7dac673653ef8c

(281)

on April 20, 2013
at 11:26 AM

I think we read different things but, inefficient conversion seems to be the consensus.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on April 20, 2013
at 12:52 PM

Yea I've read tons about k2, you can see on my profile I've asked questions about k2 since I first created my account 6+ months ago. However, in the source you just cited, it showed high k1 and k2 both had the same effect in rats... I haven't found any data on conversion rates in humans from k1 supplementation or from natural food sources. However I have seen evidence that green leafy vegetables decrease risk of CHD by 23% per serving per day. Which to me screams vitamin k. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11412050

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