13

votes

Is rejection of the lipid hypothesis (while not yet rejecting grains) a step forward or a terrible mistake?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 23, 2011 at 12:49 AM

I have seen a lot of non-paleo "mom" or cooking blogs* lately advocating the use of fats - lard, coconut oil, etc. They may make a token statement that fat is not really the enemy, or even go so far as to link to the Weston A. Price foundation website. Meanwhile, these bloggers will often combine these elements, say, with white flour or other whole wheat flour. (One I know even has a wheat grinder to grind her own flours!) In other words, I'm seeing evidence in non-paleo blogs that the lipid hypothesis is being rejected, but I haven't yet seen these bloggers give any thought to giving up grains, or wheat/gluten.

What do you think? Are these bloggers on the right path and due to their willingness to flout conventional wisdom will probably one day foresake their grains? Or is this a terribly misguided new stance - accepting healthy fats while retaining their use in combination with grains - from which they are unlikely to progress? What are the potential impacts of these bloggers' published food choices on their readership (which in many cases numbers in the thousands or tens of thousands)?

*ETA: To avoid confusion, in this case, I'm not referencing traditional cooking blogs which feature thorough adaptation of WAPF principles (like soaking/fermentation of grains before cooking).

0c0c5c65612425e497b7231c21516943

(1354)

on January 24, 2011
at 02:32 AM

I am pretty sure that it had something to do with hardening of the arteries/cholesterol issues - bad LDLs - perhaps the particle sizes?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 24, 2011
at 01:53 AM

I think my concern stems from the idea that when they are mixing the high fat with the grains it is creating exceptionally high calories and bad nutrition to boot.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on January 24, 2011
at 01:00 AM

I'm not sure of the extent of potential issues - that's why I was posting the question! Hoping that others could enlighten me with details/linkes/studies as to the theoretical dangers of high fat + grains - leaky gut of course included.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 24, 2011
at 12:52 AM

but why? ive heard arguments FOR a high (safe) carb, high (safe) fat diet with low protein as well... the only unsafe potential I can see is leaky gut issues. is that the only concern?

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on January 23, 2011
at 10:19 PM

Yes, this potential issue was a sticking point for me too in pondering the good fats + grains dilemma.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 23, 2011
at 08:31 PM

See, this is what I thought, that it's a super bad combo.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 23, 2011
at 04:44 PM

Unless leaky gut is a concern. Then the risks are high either way.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on January 23, 2011
at 02:44 AM

Well, you're giving lots of credit to the bloggers I'm referencing, but...the one I specifically remember linking to WAPF (to explain the use of Esskay lard) was doing a recipe for doughnuts, including bleached flour and sugar! ;) Another two blogs I'm thinking about have advocated coconut oil as a healthy fat but use unsoaked/unsprouted/unfermented commercial or home-ground wheat-based flours (whole grain or standard) in their sites' featured recipes.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on January 23, 2011
at 02:41 AM

Well, you're giving lots of credit to the bloggers I'm referencing, but...the one I specifically remember linking to WAPF (to explain the use of Esskay lard) was doing a recipe for doughnuts, including standard white flour and sugar! ;)

95f407502f92a7bc460e8f83652341de

(288)

on January 23, 2011
at 02:26 AM

I don't think those bloggers are pushing the SAD or processed wheat. They are traditional foodist who generally soak, sprout and ferment as a rule. They are definitely moving in the right direction, they just haven't gone far enough back in history to find a truly appropriate diet for humans. They are still stuck in agrarian mindset. The "grains are bad in general" info is just getting out. They feel that by preparing them the way they do, they are healthful. As long as Sally Fallon is head of WAPF there will be emphasis on grains. WAP himself did not support eating them.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 23, 2011
at 02:10 AM

I was really surprised that it wasn't that hard for me. I was the Fiber Queen for years and ate WHOLE GRAIN everything. Beans too, I made black bean fudge and brownies and all kinds of crazy things. I totally bought into the try Paleo for 30 days thing and loved it. I guess I was just lucky.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on January 23, 2011
at 02:05 AM

Yep, it tweaks your brain into making lame excuses for it, just like any other drug. It's much easier to alter one's diet to include more fat, which is tasty and the body naturally likes it, then to give up an addictive drug. One way is adding tasty food and the other is substracting it.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 23, 2011
at 01:25 AM

Great question! A lot of my gym "friends" are totally half-assing Paleo and it makes me wonder if that is bad for them or if it is at least somewhat better than eating SAD.

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6 Answers

8
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on January 23, 2011
at 01:44 AM

50% wrong is still better than 100% wrong.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 23, 2011
at 04:44 PM

Unless leaky gut is a concern. Then the risks are high either way.

5
95f407502f92a7bc460e8f83652341de

on January 23, 2011
at 02:27 AM

Their ingestion of good fats will at least help to manage the blood sugar spikes they will experience from grains, as well as the gut damage, nutrient deficiency, and tooth decay.

2
0c0c5c65612425e497b7231c21516943

(1354)

on January 23, 2011
at 08:12 PM

I know that I have read somewhere around the low-carb paleo community that mixing high fat and high carbs is a recipe for disaster. If you are going to be high carb with grains, you are better off with low fat. I wish that I could remember where I heard/read this, but I warn my husband all the time that he can't have it both ways. I eat high fat and low carbs.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on January 23, 2011
at 10:19 PM

Yes, this potential issue was a sticking point for me too in pondering the good fats + grains dilemma.

0c0c5c65612425e497b7231c21516943

(1354)

on January 24, 2011
at 02:32 AM

I am pretty sure that it had something to do with hardening of the arteries/cholesterol issues - bad LDLs - perhaps the particle sizes?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 23, 2011
at 08:31 PM

See, this is what I thought, that it's a super bad combo.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 24, 2011
at 12:52 AM

but why? ive heard arguments FOR a high (safe) carb, high (safe) fat diet with low protein as well... the only unsafe potential I can see is leaky gut issues. is that the only concern?

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 24, 2011
at 01:53 AM

I think my concern stems from the idea that when they are mixing the high fat with the grains it is creating exceptionally high calories and bad nutrition to boot.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on January 24, 2011
at 01:00 AM

I'm not sure of the extent of potential issues - that's why I was posting the question! Hoping that others could enlighten me with details/linkes/studies as to the theoretical dangers of high fat + grains - leaky gut of course included.

2
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on January 23, 2011
at 01:34 AM

The word is barely starting to get out there about wheat products. Just look at the hundreds of bread loaves on the supermarket shelf. And look at the bakery products loaded with flour and sugars.

Those bloggers still push the Standard American Diet of processed wheat and are telling their readership to slowly kill themselves. And slowly cause the deterioration of their health...which costs billions of dollars in healthcare costs.

Wheat products are so pervasive in our culture that "they must be alright. I have been eating bread all my life." They cannot fathom that wheat products and sugar has caused the obesity epidemic.

Look at black and white group company photos/pictures from back in the dark ages of 1940-1960s. One never sees a obese employee in the photo. But now 60% are obese and another 25% are overweight. Look around the mall or WalMart.

Healthy fat is great. But eat your healthy flour is a disaster.

Dr Davis says that modern hybridization of wheat yields varieties that have 20,000 chromosomes that he calls "dwarf mutant" strains. Original Eikorn wheat has 14 chromosomes and only elevates blood sugar mildly as opposed to the dwarf mutant that can spike the blood sugar a 100 points or more.

95f407502f92a7bc460e8f83652341de

(288)

on January 23, 2011
at 02:26 AM

I don't think those bloggers are pushing the SAD or processed wheat. They are traditional foodist who generally soak, sprout and ferment as a rule. They are definitely moving in the right direction, they just haven't gone far enough back in history to find a truly appropriate diet for humans. They are still stuck in agrarian mindset. The "grains are bad in general" info is just getting out. They feel that by preparing them the way they do, they are healthful. As long as Sally Fallon is head of WAPF there will be emphasis on grains. WAP himself did not support eating them.

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on January 23, 2011
at 02:41 AM

Well, you're giving lots of credit to the bloggers I'm referencing, but...the one I specifically remember linking to WAPF (to explain the use of Esskay lard) was doing a recipe for doughnuts, including standard white flour and sugar! ;)

D30ff86ad2c1f3b43b99aed213bcf461

on January 23, 2011
at 02:44 AM

Well, you're giving lots of credit to the bloggers I'm referencing, but...the one I specifically remember linking to WAPF (to explain the use of Esskay lard) was doing a recipe for doughnuts, including bleached flour and sugar! ;) Another two blogs I'm thinking about have advocated coconut oil as a healthy fat but use unsoaked/unsprouted/unfermented commercial or home-ground wheat-based flours (whole grain or standard) in their sites' featured recipes.

1
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on January 24, 2011
at 01:05 AM

This is pretty common here in Brooklyn. You'll see pie doughs made with white flour and lard. And one of my favorite restaurants has bacon doughnuts. I guess the rising tide floats all ships and makes it easier to get lard and bacon for everyone, but I have to wonder what sort of Triglycerides and stuff people get from eating this stuff. I've met some restaurateurs who use tons of lard, but normal flour, and they look terrible.

1
531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

on January 23, 2011
at 02:03 AM

The stuff's a drug. Tough to give it up.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 23, 2011
at 02:10 AM

I was really surprised that it wasn't that hard for me. I was the Fiber Queen for years and ate WHOLE GRAIN everything. Beans too, I made black bean fudge and brownies and all kinds of crazy things. I totally bought into the try Paleo for 30 days thing and loved it. I guess I was just lucky.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on January 23, 2011
at 02:05 AM

Yep, it tweaks your brain into making lame excuses for it, just like any other drug. It's much easier to alter one's diet to include more fat, which is tasty and the body naturally likes it, then to give up an addictive drug. One way is adding tasty food and the other is substracting it.

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