2

votes

Is Coconut oil / milk the result of a Fermentation process?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 12, 2012 at 3:16 PM

After reading a description of how coconut oil is processed (at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_oil ) it left me with more questions than answers.

I'm doing a 30 day low-histamine paleo diet and I'm supposed to avoid fermented products. The wikipedia article mentions a variety of processing methods, including fermentation.

I normally buy virgin, unrefined coconut oil. Would the refined coconut oil be less likely to contain histamines?

Do you think butter is less likely to contain histamine (a result of fermentation and/or spoilage?)

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

PS: anyone aware of any histamine specific support forums or groups on the internet?

D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on July 10, 2012
at 10:00 PM

By the way - hexane has already been commented on - not really an issue: http://paleohacks.com/questions/131740/does-hexane-free-really-matter/131817#131817

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on July 10, 2012
at 09:04 PM

@Kelly- It's easy to make your own out of dried coconut and boiling water. I don't have a link handy, but it's similar to making nut milks or whatever. (Add however much water you like.) I get the Let's Do Organic shredded unsweetened coconut or Bob's Red Mill coconut flakes. That way you don't get BPA, guar gum, or preservatives.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 13, 2012
at 12:09 AM

@Kelly: I just up a can of Aroy-D coconut Milk at an Asian grocery store. The ingredients are listed only as: "coconut extract 60% water" www.thaiagri.com email: [email protected] (I haven't contacted to see if this is just a language labeling omission. It cost the same $1.59 / can so there wasn't a purity premium.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 12, 2012
at 11:02 PM

@kelly Here is the reference I was thinking of earlier: Histamine sensitive people should avoid: Tartrazine and other artificial food colors, and Preservatives, esp. benzoates, sulfites and BHA, BHT

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 12, 2012
at 07:04 PM

@ddibwynt what's the best fat to use during an elimination diet? (actually, that's such a good question, I'll post that as a separate question!)

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on June 12, 2012
at 06:17 PM

Oh and butter-wise - I still react very badly to butter. I believe it contains yeast and therefore contains histamine or produces a histamine reaction in those with yeast sensitivity. I did some research to find that significant amounts of yeast are present in dairy - especially dairy fat, surprisingly - which does make sense, considering that lacto-fermentation happens spontaneously with dairy and it spoils so easily. I would absolutely avoid butter and all dairy (including ghee) if you're doing elimination.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on June 12, 2012
at 06:13 PM

However, just to throw it in there - my tolerance to other things is improved by strictly avoiding histamines (as much as possible) and now when I do on very rare occasions eat cheese, it doesn't seem nearly as bad as before (asthma and looking like I had a full-blown cold). I do think one can hope for improvement with avoidance.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on June 12, 2012
at 06:11 PM

I have a huge problem with histamines and a huge problem with virgin, unrefined coconut oil (Nutiva is what I used to buy). However, I have a problem with salicylates, which are a thing with coconuts - and they're fat-soluble, so the salicylate/fat combo is deadly for me. I'm also starting to think that carboxylic acids in general are problematic for me, though. I think I have a TRP over-activation/expression problem, which may be different from others - meaning I have reactions to a wide swathe of chemicals, not just histamine. If you don't have a problem with salicylates you might be fine.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on June 12, 2012
at 06:08 PM

doesn't sound possible. Would be cool, as I miss wine, but...

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on June 12, 2012
at 05:47 PM

Thansk for the suggestion about the preservatives. It's hard to find preservative-free coconut milk, but I'll definitely keep that in mind.

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on June 12, 2012
at 05:45 PM

Why would that be?

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 12, 2012
at 04:53 PM

@Roth: if the qty & total fat/cals remained the same between brands, that's pretty compelling!

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on June 12, 2012
at 04:44 PM

I can definitely vouch for the preservatives and a negative reaction. Recently bought a coconut milk with sodium metabisulfite and I thought I was going to puke for about 6 hours after I ate it. I was burping uncontrollably. I eat coconut oil daily with no problem and have eaten whole coconuts with no problem. The next day I had another coconut milk can (I bought several, stupid me) and lo and behold same reaction. Aroy-D coconut milk (without metabisulfite gave me no such negative reaction)

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 12, 2012
at 04:32 PM

Thanks @Kelly. I've been doing an insane qty. of research on this whole histamine thing. I don't have it handy but I do recall that some of the preservatives that might be common in canned goods can provoke a histamine reaction. Maybe it isn't the meat/pulp but one of the preservatives.

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8 Answers

best answer

1
D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on July 10, 2012
at 09:47 PM

Short answer - no.

I'm a convert to refined coconut oil - unless you like the coconut aroma so much. Some guys get a reaction to the traces of aromatics that remain in the virgin oil. Most people who have issues with the unrefined oil do fine with the refined version.

If there are TRACES of hexane, I'm not at all concerned, it's reasonably benign. In any case, other less toxic extractants, are preferred, if used at all. Refined oil is usually expeller extracted - solvents add cost to the process.

Bottom line - get the refined oil - it's also several times cheaper - here in Germany I buy blocks,"non-hydrogenated", wrapped like butter - 200gm costs only EU0.79 - that's less than EU4.00/kg !!

This stuff is too good for you to be missed!

D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on July 10, 2012
at 10:00 PM

By the way - hexane has already been commented on - not really an issue: http://paleohacks.com/questions/131740/does-hexane-free-really-matter/131817#131817

0
7eba3d743671649c1e06cacce0ba4e77

(1423)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:11 AM

There are many ways of making coconut oil, and I have tried the fermentation process at home myself. It produces an oil that smells weird lol. You can also use heat and boil the coconut milk to leave the oil remaining. Most companies don't use the fermentation method(and if they did I'm sure they would refine it or deodourize it). Some companies dry the coconut meat and then extract the oil(some dry over smoke and it smells vile). I would not suggest buying the refined stuff because you wouldn't be able to smell for rancidity, dirty extraction processes etc. Buy Virgin coconut oil and if it smells like fresh coconuts, then almost 100% chance its not a result of fermentation. I know for sure Nutiva doesn't use this method and that's the brand I buy, I doubt you would get a reaction on that brand. Several other brands are "Organika" and "Garden of Life".Good Luck!

0
4b57d65782a349c39e0d8a1de294958d

on July 10, 2012
at 09:14 PM

Nevermind.

Nevermind.

Nevermind.

0
2e5dc29c61f97d335ffb990508424719

on June 12, 2012
at 04:44 PM

Off topic but Chianti and Sangavese red wines do not contain histamine. Just about all other red wines do.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on June 12, 2012
at 06:08 PM

doesn't sound possible. Would be cool, as I miss wine, but...

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on June 12, 2012
at 05:45 PM

Why would that be?

0
78fcdeee6ac4ee7d071bbac56b9e359f

(1025)

on June 12, 2012
at 04:37 PM

I recently bought a jar of "now foods" brand coconut oil, and it definitely had a different, funkier taste that what I was used to from nutiva or trader joe's coconut oil. Did a little googling and someone on an amazon review mentioned it might be traditionally processed, aka fermented.

0
F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on June 12, 2012
at 04:12 PM

I have histamine issues that i'm dealing with, and I use (virgin, unrefined) coconut oil liberally without problems. It's not fermented. Neither is regular butter. I do have some digestive issues when I consume cocount milk or coconut butter, so I attribute that to the meat/pulp.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on June 12, 2012
at 04:44 PM

I can definitely vouch for the preservatives and a negative reaction. Recently bought a coconut milk with sodium metabisulfite and I thought I was going to puke for about 6 hours after I ate it. I was burping uncontrollably. I eat coconut oil daily with no problem and have eaten whole coconuts with no problem. The next day I had another coconut milk can (I bought several, stupid me) and lo and behold same reaction. Aroy-D coconut milk (without metabisulfite gave me no such negative reaction)

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 12, 2012
at 11:02 PM

@kelly Here is the reference I was thinking of earlier: Histamine sensitive people should avoid: Tartrazine and other artificial food colors, and Preservatives, esp. benzoates, sulfites and BHA, BHT

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 12, 2012
at 04:32 PM

Thanks @Kelly. I've been doing an insane qty. of research on this whole histamine thing. I don't have it handy but I do recall that some of the preservatives that might be common in canned goods can provoke a histamine reaction. Maybe it isn't the meat/pulp but one of the preservatives.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 12, 2012
at 04:53 PM

@Roth: if the qty & total fat/cals remained the same between brands, that's pretty compelling!

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on June 12, 2012
at 05:47 PM

Thansk for the suggestion about the preservatives. It's hard to find preservative-free coconut milk, but I'll definitely keep that in mind.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on June 13, 2012
at 12:09 AM

@Kelly: I just up a can of Aroy-D coconut Milk at an Asian grocery store. The ingredients are listed only as: "coconut extract 60% water" www.thaiagri.com email: [email protected] (I haven't contacted to see if this is just a language labeling omission. It cost the same $1.59 / can so there wasn't a purity premium.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on July 10, 2012
at 09:04 PM

@Kelly- It's easy to make your own out of dried coconut and boiling water. I don't have a link handy, but it's similar to making nut milks or whatever. (Add however much water you like.) I get the Let's Do Organic shredded unsweetened coconut or Bob's Red Mill coconut flakes. That way you don't get BPA, guar gum, or preservatives.

0
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on June 12, 2012
at 03:25 PM

DO NOT buy or consume the refined coconut oil. Like most plant and fruits oils, the refined versions are usually exposed to hexane to assist in the oil extraction process. You do not want to consume that stuff.

As for the unrefined oil, that is what I prefer. However, if you are avoiding histamines, you may want to simply cut out coconut for now -- it is a very common allergen (although I cannot attest to specific histamine levels).

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