5

votes

if inflammation is bad, and saturated fats are good, then...

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created July 16, 2012 at 3:13 PM

If inflammation is bad, and saturated fats are good-then why according to nutrition data.com are saturated fats like butter and coconut oil "highly inflammatory" and yet paleo dogma says they're good and anti-inflammatory?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 22, 2012
at 04:48 AM

Really? Huh. Darn.

D41bd7b3d3b962eb0146f471eb632f56

(2029)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:20 PM

On a separate note, Monica Reinagal has gone on to say in her podcasts that saturated fat consumption is not something to worry about. It's funny that this inflammation factor she designed breaks food down to their isolated nutrients, when in her podcasts she's usually pretty level-headed in saying that real food is more important than isolated nutrients. She ain't paleo , but she herself agrees that grains aren't necessary for a healthy diet, and the USDAs opinion on saturated fat is overblown.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 17, 2012
at 10:44 PM

I know that, and I wasn't going to. I was just thinking it was interesting, and myself I get very inflamed when I eat coconut, which is pure saturated, but not when I eat nuts, which even contain some of inflammatory omega 6 but offsetting omega 9 and other nutrients.

7660f5a0ec906d3922d79b20f3434ecc

(788)

on July 17, 2012
at 06:58 PM

Eddiosh, look at how he responds to all answers and you will see why there is bad karma. There is no point in asking a question if instead of learning you just want to put your hands over your ears and shot LA LA LA while arguing with everyone.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on July 17, 2012
at 05:13 PM

India has over a billion people in it, and there are surrounding areas with similar customs, especially with regard to ghee. I'm not using the existence of many cultures (India is not some monolithic culture but an agglomeration of many) to castigate epidemiology. Epidemiology castigates itself just fine, thank you. What I was doing was answering an idiotic question.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on July 17, 2012
at 04:35 PM

What makes nutritiondata.com trustworthy regarding its interpretation of inflammation rankings? What backs up its judgement?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on July 17, 2012
at 03:27 PM

Or better yet, put in fake blueberries in your crap-in-a-box product that sells for $12 a box, then advertise it as containing blueberries and mention how healthy those are. The cereal winds up costing less than the box it came in to manufacture. Yes, that's right, such garbage as fake blueberries exists and it's made of sugar and artificial coloring, with artificial flavor, **not** actual blueberries.

Medium avatar

(3213)

on July 17, 2012
at 01:09 PM

"Olive oil goes rancid above 350º" Lies!!!

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:52 PM

That was my thought, Karen, thus my trolling comment.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:31 PM

I'm totally fascinated by the OP selecting this as best answer. Maybe s/he did "just make this topic so you can argue with a bunch of people on the internet?" and got an enjoyable ride out of it.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on July 17, 2012
at 03:09 AM

alligator = razwell?

A08b210e4da7e69cd792bddc1f4aae4b

(1031)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:50 AM

Seems like a perfectly reasonable question. Why all the bad karma?

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:28 AM

That last line should say "I suspect most of us..."

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:27 AM

Data such that she cites should all be triangulated and not taken as "truth." Nutritiondata.self.com does have some uses, e.g. nutritional breakdown of a recipe (I haven't foud anything else similar), but the information as to what is inflammatory/anti-inflammatory is at best subjective. Their information is based on the USDA's current guidelines, which I most of us here would agree is total hogwash.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:17 AM

Well it really is hard to eat 0 fat but you sure as heck don't need much. Really, you could live off shellfish, fruit and tubers and have no health issues and very, very low fat intake - the sort ornish would wet himself to see.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:12 AM

It's been two years and I am up to almost 200lbs smaller and I ate/drank coffee, dark chocolate, a bit of fruit and a bit of yam, sometimes a lot more. I've never opted for lean meat, always ate all the yolks and got fat eating rice and beans as a vegan so yeah I don't get the whole SFA=scary.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:44 PM

Lastly, I would speculate that if you compared to how "inflammatory" saturated fat is compared to eating a comparable amount of wheat that the saturated fatty meat would look more like a small wave on the graph and the wheat would look like a mountain.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:42 PM

I'd guess if you just eat a well rounded diet of all sorts of plants and animals, you'd probably come out with a normalish amount of saturated fats by paleolithic era standards. I'm sure it's probably still high by today's generally accepted intake, but we have very little true data to go on by what a normal amount of intake would be. As far as them being highly inflammatory, that may or may not be true, I don't know the data and I don't want to claim to. In a rounded diet though, inflammatory food and anti-inflamatory should keep things in close proximity.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:39 PM

Perhaps eat as much as you need rather than as much as you want. These are not always the same thing :)

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:38 PM

Alright, while I don't have a study to support this, I highly doubt eating blueberries will promote inflammation regardless of the sugar. And I would hardly consider anything in blueberries "foreign".

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:37 PM

Eat as much as you need rather than as much as you want. These are not always the same thing.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:35 PM

This is where the check mark should've gone. As far as I can tell, eat real food. Plants, animals, maybe a little dairy, hell even a little honey or chocolate for a short burst of happieness and I'd bet dollars to donuts (I still wouldn't eat them of course) that you'd end up with a pretty freaking healthy outcome.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:29 PM

I give up. This is all so, so, so confusing! I'm going to go graze at the foot of the food pyramid where the USDA says it's totally safe.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:22 PM

Also, a quick google shows she has a Masters in Nutrition science but has never published or taken part in a study. Her "publishing" were pop-diet books, not research papers or journal articles.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:18 PM

@alligator - That isn't a reference to data, it's name dropping. References would show the data so it could be reviewed and critiqued. Because X says so is an argument from authority. It's saying she is right because she is who she is, not because the data supports her findings.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:16 PM

Given that they contain sugar it seems reasonable that they could be mildly inflammatory. We are putting foreign substances into our body, expect ever cell in our body to applaud seems unreasonable.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 10:05 PM

Derek, you are right and wrong. First, I am not trolling, liek Mathgirl72 beleives. It is a real question/concern of mine, and I knew it would stir up soem emotions beforeheand. I was hoping I would hear someonthing I haven't heard already, but I have not, and obviously what I've heard already did not fully convince me that it is okay to eat as much SFAs as one wants. But it is a good and funny answer nonetheless, and partly accurate as well. So chekc mark

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 16, 2012
at 10:03 PM

And don't put any blueberries on the cereal, that will make it less anti-inflammatory =P

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 16, 2012
at 09:12 PM

alligator is definitely trolling...

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 08:52 PM

I would speculate how much I know really depends on which website I'm on at the moment. . .

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 08:51 PM

I would speculate how much I know really depends on which website I'm citing at the moment. . .

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 08:20 PM

I think it is funny that it shows ruminants as anti-inflammatory and saturated fat as pro. Also grass fed and grain are going to be different anyway, as a side note.

6b365c14c646462210f3ef6b6fecace1

(1784)

on July 16, 2012
at 08:09 PM

no, no, no, we're supposed to come up with an answer that alligator likes. Don't you know ANYTHING??? ;-)

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 07:53 PM

You have to eat fats. If you stop eating fat you will die. Some fats are anti-inflammatory, some are pro. Some oxidize worse, some don't. I would not recommend getting rid of butter and saturated fats and replacing it with olive oil on everything. People on here might want too, but not I. I also understand the importance if dietary cholesterol on building muscle and hormones. Most foods that contain cholesterol contain saturated fats.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 07:50 PM

@stephen....thanks for pointing that out. I am sure she sold a lot of books. I thought the point of eating paleo was to eat natural foods our bodies were designed to eat. I didn't know everyday would be a matter of measuring macronutrients. micronutriens, vitamins, minerals, and now how inflammatory my food is. Its just too much.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 07:46 PM

@alligator...if you don't like butter, then don't eat it. I eat it quite a bit and will put my health against practically everyone on this board. There is NO perfect food. You limit the bad, enjoy what you eat, and you will be fine.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 16, 2012
at 07:01 PM

No, eating something that is inflammatory (but not chronic inflammation) daily would not necessarily make it chronic. Eating too much could. Take exercise, weight training increases acute inflammation (almost the definition of anaerobic exercise). However after recover, it has been shown to decrease oxidative inflammation. Eating good oils is a bit like that. You eat the oil and it does create an acute response, but over time it reduces chronic inflammation by enabling the body to better absorb the nutrients (as part of a health balance as Raise says).

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 16, 2012
at 07:01 PM

Mark Sisson has a biology degree, not that having an english degree precludes you from offering sound health advice.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:53 PM

A lot of "they" (who are they, you are referring?) are probably medical doctors and/or have achieve their Master's in something relating to biology, chemistry,statistics and epidemiology, etc. Last time I checked Mark Sison has a BA in English and Tabues has his masters Journalism. "They" are the most popular paleo/primal low carb advocates.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:49 PM

@ Miked- Yet another biased and unscientific answer. Thank you for not providing anything useful.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:28 PM

I'm fed up with the don't cook with olive oil crowd. I understand that it smokes easily but there are a LOT of people who cook with it seemingly without problems. I don't think it's a huge problem compared to people just eating proper amounts of food and being more active. Olive oil heating is a mere detail

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:24 PM

There's one. One. Butter is not inherently unhealthy but that doesn't mean that there's many healthy populations who consume a lot of it. Too many in this site castigate epidemiology then go on to use the same reasoning in supporting their chosen beliefs.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:12 PM

So many things wrong with your response. First you say there are no references, and then you go on to site M Reinegal. Who do you think she is? That is their reference. Also, if you know nothing about nutrition, it would be important to say that she's notable if she has published books and journals, and has appeared on national television. It's not Joe Dirt researching out of his trailer home btu some one with real credentials. You ask questions, but then you look no further- you have not gone to read any of her work, you are going by a summary of the person they are references.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:08 PM

^ Karen thanks for providing that, it is the only good answer as of yet.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Yeah, their algorithm is faulty. They do count sugars as inflammatory but can't factor in the other things that make blueberries anti-inflammatory. They're using a very incomplete formula.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:03 PM

Pre-industrialized food Swiss villages.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:01 PM

^You must have misread. I asked for "healthy culture"

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:00 PM

The algorithm that nutrition data figures saturated fat as inflammatory. That does not actually mean that it is inflammatory. It's quite likely that their data is based on lumping processed saturated fats (transfats) in with naturally occurring and untampered with saturated fats.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on July 16, 2012
at 05:47 PM

India. It is where ghee comes from.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 05:29 PM

could you just give me one example of a healthy culture that consumes large amounts of butter?

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 05:03 PM

Oh, biased by science then. On the site it shows grains as inflammatory. Fruits and vegetables and ruminant animals and fish are anti-inflammatory.

6135c6d0f4ee97d5e2cc90b33ab9fd79

(38)

on July 16, 2012
at 04:51 PM

"Butter, without salt. The bad: This food is very high in Saturated Fat." Not biased towards low fat, you say? Moreover, the inflammation scores come from the site inflammationfactor, which states "there’s no reason to avoid wholesome foods like fruits and grains". I would hardly call this biased towards paleo.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 04:40 PM

@ RAise- you seem to know your stuff well, but not eating butter or coconut oil does not necessitate eating seed oils. What I am saying is it seems wiser not to eat butter and coconut oil.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 16, 2012
at 04:33 PM

There's no magic number over which an oil oxidizes. Olive oil is fine to cook with.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 04:22 PM

Go eat as much seed oils, and see what happens to your inflammation.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 04:21 PM

you are also eating anti-inflammatory foods every day. If you had a high amount of Omega-3 and low levels of Omega-6 you would have issues also. Balance is the key.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 04:20 PM

True...butter and coconut oil should not make up the majority of your calories.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 04:04 PM

Please do not make things up to prove a point. It makes you look silly. The site is not biased towards low fat, grains, or legumes. On the contrary, chicken breast, wheat, corn, oats, and some legumes all have high inflammatory scores. However, beef, salmon/fatty fish, fruits, vegetables, and most nuts have ANTI-inflammatory scores. If anythings, it is biased towards paleo (but not primal).

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:57 PM

...that doesn't seem biased to me.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:56 PM

where does it say cholesterol is bad? Seafood is anti-inflammatory, oats, wheat, and legumes are consistently labeled to have a a high inflammatory score

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:54 PM

right, but if you're eating them daily, wouldn't that be chronic, low level inflammation?

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:52 PM

That site also says that food high in cholesterol is bad for you. They are a widely used public site that is not going to contradict 'conventional wisdom' or the current nutritional paradigm. In other words, they will favor low fat, healthy whole grains, legumes, etc.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:45 PM

Agree. But most primal's follow the advice of Sisson and Taubes and Jamiet, who say you can eat as much saturated fat as you want.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:23 PM

... It would reason that if either of those are making up the majority of your calories, you'd be setting up an unfavorable internal environment chronically.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:21 PM

Yes, but apparently butter and coconut oil (two primal favorites), are inflammatory.

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15 Answers

best answer

20
4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 07:50 PM

Maybe I'm just being kind of a dick, but if you're going to slam every reasonable/logical answer given. Why did you bother asking the question? Did you just make this topic so you can argue with a bunch of people on the internet? Obviously there's no 100% clear cut answer yet on this topic. Otherwise it wouldn't even be debatable. Nutritiondata.com definitely has what seems to be a reputable sounding name. No question. I can go to an appalling number of websites with reputable sounding names that claim facts on their topic that are nothing more than backed up than by some dude behind a keyboard. Not everything on the internet is true. Even the "facts" we all agree on today aren't always true tomorrow (ie. the world is flat). Otherwise I could lose 9lbs by this afternoon on a crash diet and have sex with at least 30,000 super hot single chicks living in my town alone, all while having my debt cleared away and I'd be leaving on my free vacation by the week's end.

6b365c14c646462210f3ef6b6fecace1

(1784)

on July 16, 2012
at 08:09 PM

no, no, no, we're supposed to come up with an answer that alligator likes. Don't you know ANYTHING??? ;-)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:37 PM

Eat as much as you need rather than as much as you want. These are not always the same thing.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:42 PM

I'd guess if you just eat a well rounded diet of all sorts of plants and animals, you'd probably come out with a normalish amount of saturated fats by paleolithic era standards. I'm sure it's probably still high by today's generally accepted intake, but we have very little true data to go on by what a normal amount of intake would be. As far as them being highly inflammatory, that may or may not be true, I don't know the data and I don't want to claim to. In a rounded diet though, inflammatory food and anti-inflamatory should keep things in close proximity.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 08:52 PM

I would speculate how much I know really depends on which website I'm on at the moment. . .

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 16, 2012
at 09:12 PM

alligator is definitely trolling...

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:31 PM

I'm totally fascinated by the OP selecting this as best answer. Maybe s/he did "just make this topic so you can argue with a bunch of people on the internet?" and got an enjoyable ride out of it.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 08:51 PM

I would speculate how much I know really depends on which website I'm citing at the moment. . .

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:44 PM

Lastly, I would speculate that if you compared to how "inflammatory" saturated fat is compared to eating a comparable amount of wheat that the saturated fatty meat would look more like a small wave on the graph and the wheat would look like a mountain.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:39 PM

Perhaps eat as much as you need rather than as much as you want. These are not always the same thing :)

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 10:05 PM

Derek, you are right and wrong. First, I am not trolling, liek Mathgirl72 beleives. It is a real question/concern of mine, and I knew it would stir up soem emotions beforeheand. I was hoping I would hear someonthing I haven't heard already, but I have not, and obviously what I've heard already did not fully convince me that it is okay to eat as much SFAs as one wants. But it is a good and funny answer nonetheless, and partly accurate as well. So chekc mark

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:52 PM

That was my thought, Karen, thus my trolling comment.

14
121a16aded2bed8dca492d3c9662ef4c

on July 16, 2012
at 05:57 PM

There is one problem with nutritiondata.com:

There are no references.

How am I supposed to know if what they claim there is on the level? If you are going to claim that something is inflammatory, then back it up. Coconut milk is inflammatory? According to whom?

In fact -- that's a great idea! while we're here, let's take a look at where this information comes from.

clicks link

Hmnn...

The IF Rating??? System

Monica Reinagel, a noted nutritional researcher, is the creator of the IF (Inflammation Factor) Rating??? system. Before creating her system, she spent years studying systemic inflammation, and compiled data from hundreds of different research studies. Her system considers the inflammatory and anti-inflammatory effects of more than 20 separate nutrients. In Nutrition Data's opinion, this rating system is the most sophisticated approach to date for predicting the inflammatory effects of foods.

Early in 2006, Monica authored the book The Inflammation Free Diet Plan, which provides simple guidelines for using her system to plan your diet, and includes IF Ratings for 1,500 common foods. Nutrition Data recommends this book to anyone considering using the advice of the IF Rating??? system. You can also learn more by visiting InflammationFactor.com.

The first warning sign is language like this:

"Monica Reinagel, a noted nutritional researcher..."

If you have to tell people you're notable, you aren't. (The moment I read something along the lines of "...has appeared on CNN, MSNBC, Fox, [insert cable channel desperate to fill airtime here]", I move on.)

"Before creating her system, she spent years studying systemic inflammation, and compiled data from hundreds of different research studies."

Hundreds and hundreds, for years... and years and years. Maybe two? Maybe ten? In a lab, or in the den?

It gets better:

"Her system considers the inflammatory and anti-inflammatory effects of more than 20 separate nutrients. In Nutrition Data's opinion, this rating system is the most sophisticated approach to date for predicting the inflammatory effects of foods."

Right, thanks for the tip! I'll be sure to add Nutrition Data to my list of journals to read.

"Early in 2006, Monica authored the book The Inflammation Free Diet Plan, which provides simple guidelines for using her system to plan your diet, and includes IF Ratings for 1,500 common foods. Nutrition Data recommends this book to anyone considering using the advice of the IF Rating??? system. You can also learn more by visiting InflammationFactor.com."

Houston, the Benjamin has landed! Nice work, Ms. Reinagel!

I have found that asking a lot of questions in general is useful in life. It saves me time and money.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:28 AM

That last line should say "I suspect most of us..."

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:12 PM

So many things wrong with your response. First you say there are no references, and then you go on to site M Reinegal. Who do you think she is? That is their reference. Also, if you know nothing about nutrition, it would be important to say that she's notable if she has published books and journals, and has appeared on national television. It's not Joe Dirt researching out of his trailer home btu some one with real credentials. You ask questions, but then you look no further- you have not gone to read any of her work, you are going by a summary of the person they are references.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:22 PM

Also, a quick google shows she has a Masters in Nutrition science but has never published or taken part in a study. Her "publishing" were pop-diet books, not research papers or journal articles.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 17, 2012
at 02:27 AM

Data such that she cites should all be triangulated and not taken as "truth." Nutritiondata.self.com does have some uses, e.g. nutritional breakdown of a recipe (I haven't foud anything else similar), but the information as to what is inflammatory/anti-inflammatory is at best subjective. Their information is based on the USDA's current guidelines, which I most of us here would agree is total hogwash.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:18 PM

@alligator - That isn't a reference to data, it's name dropping. References would show the data so it could be reviewed and critiqued. Because X says so is an argument from authority. It's saying she is right because she is who she is, not because the data supports her findings.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 07:50 PM

@stephen....thanks for pointing that out. I am sure she sold a lot of books. I thought the point of eating paleo was to eat natural foods our bodies were designed to eat. I didn't know everyday would be a matter of measuring macronutrients. micronutriens, vitamins, minerals, and now how inflammatory my food is. Its just too much.

D41bd7b3d3b962eb0146f471eb632f56

(2029)

on October 21, 2012
at 03:20 PM

On a separate note, Monica Reinagal has gone on to say in her podcasts that saturated fat consumption is not something to worry about. It's funny that this inflammation factor she designed breaks food down to their isolated nutrients, when in her podcasts she's usually pretty level-headed in saying that real food is more important than isolated nutrients. She ain't paleo , but she herself agrees that grains aren't necessary for a healthy diet, and the USDAs opinion on saturated fat is overblown.

9
5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 16, 2012
at 08:10 PM

How to game the nutritiondata.com system.

  • Manufacture a whole wheat breakfast cereal.
  • Load it up with vitamins A, C & E
  • Don't worry about the gluten, because that apparently isn't in the algorithm
  • Don't worry about other factors, because ND's algorithm weights the anti-inflammatory properties of the artificially added, probably not absorbable vitamins very highly.
  • Enjoy the anti-inflammatory status of the manufactured garbage you're selling.

Bonus: The breakfast cereal you sell will rank really, really well on the ND Nutritional Target Map too.

Remember with glee that computers aren't actually smart.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 16, 2012
at 10:03 PM

And don't put any blueberries on the cereal, that will make it less anti-inflammatory =P

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on July 17, 2012
at 03:27 PM

Or better yet, put in fake blueberries in your crap-in-a-box product that sells for $12 a box, then advertise it as containing blueberries and mention how healthy those are. The cereal winds up costing less than the box it came in to manufacture. Yes, that's right, such garbage as fake blueberries exists and it's made of sugar and artificial coloring, with artificial flavor, **not** actual blueberries.

7
C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 03:18 PM

First off, not all inflammation is bad, your body requires it. What is bad is systemic low chronic inflammation. Secondly, not all fats are good. And just calling "saturated fats" inflammatory is not quite accurate. There are different breakdowns of saturated fats, some are and some aren't.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 22, 2012
at 04:48 AM

Really? Huh. Darn.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:23 PM

... It would reason that if either of those are making up the majority of your calories, you'd be setting up an unfavorable internal environment chronically.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 04:20 PM

True...butter and coconut oil should not make up the majority of your calories.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:21 PM

Yes, but apparently butter and coconut oil (two primal favorites), are inflammatory.

5
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 16, 2012
at 05:48 PM

That site is wack. It also says blueberries are "mildy inflammatory". I would not use it to determine which foods are inflammatory.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:16 PM

Given that they contain sugar it seems reasonable that they could be mildly inflammatory. We are putting foreign substances into our body, expect ever cell in our body to applaud seems unreasonable.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Yeah, their algorithm is faulty. They do count sugars as inflammatory but can't factor in the other things that make blueberries anti-inflammatory. They're using a very incomplete formula.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:38 PM

Alright, while I don't have a study to support this, I highly doubt eating blueberries will promote inflammation regardless of the sugar. And I would hardly consider anything in blueberries "foreign".

5
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on July 16, 2012
at 05:21 PM

In addition to the other good answers here, I also want to add that most of the agencies giving advice don't actually know what saturated fat is. That is, they know the definition, but they don't know real world examples. They'll point to a burger and fries and say that it is full of saturated fat and will kill you. But most of what would be in a typical burger is vegetable oil and carbs. So when "they" say that saturated fat is bad, they actually aren't pointing to saturated fat.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:24 PM

There's one. One. Butter is not inherently unhealthy but that doesn't mean that there's many healthy populations who consume a lot of it. Too many in this site castigate epidemiology then go on to use the same reasoning in supporting their chosen beliefs.

D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on July 17, 2012
at 03:09 AM

alligator = razwell?

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:03 PM

Pre-industrialized food Swiss villages.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 07:46 PM

@alligator...if you don't like butter, then don't eat it. I eat it quite a bit and will put my health against practically everyone on this board. There is NO perfect food. You limit the bad, enjoy what you eat, and you will be fine.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 05:29 PM

could you just give me one example of a healthy culture that consumes large amounts of butter?

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:49 PM

@ Miked- Yet another biased and unscientific answer. Thank you for not providing anything useful.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on July 16, 2012
at 05:47 PM

India. It is where ghee comes from.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:53 PM

A lot of "they" (who are they, you are referring?) are probably medical doctors and/or have achieve their Master's in something relating to biology, chemistry,statistics and epidemiology, etc. Last time I checked Mark Sison has a BA in English and Tabues has his masters Journalism. "They" are the most popular paleo/primal low carb advocates.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:01 PM

^You must have misread. I asked for "healthy culture"

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 16, 2012
at 07:01 PM

Mark Sisson has a biology degree, not that having an english degree precludes you from offering sound health advice.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on July 17, 2012
at 05:13 PM

India has over a billion people in it, and there are surrounding areas with similar customs, especially with regard to ghee. I'm not using the existence of many cultures (India is not some monolithic culture but an agglomeration of many) to castigate epidemiology. Epidemiology castigates itself just fine, thank you. What I was doing was answering an idiotic question.

5
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on July 16, 2012
at 04:51 PM

What does this term 'highly inflammatory' mean? We know and understand the inflammatory potential of Omega-6, for instance, because of the role they play with the prostaglandins.
What is the mechanism by which butter and coconut oil contributes to inflammation?

And, of course, I am walking around in a body has responded very favorably to butter, ghee, and saturated fat in general, though not coconut oil because I seem to be allergic to one of the transporter proteins.

To go further, properly speaking, the paleo 'dogmatists', if there are any, would be researchers like Eaton, and Cordain. I don't think they recommend butter at all, and I recently heard Eaton recommend staying away from red meat, favoring meat sources that had less saturated fat in it. You are hearing ardent, pro-saturated fat from the people who aren't dogmatists but pracitioners- i.e. we have tried it and it is good. If you are really going to throw around religious terms us ardently pro-saturated fat types are probably better termed paleo-heretics.

4
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:24 PM

What's the alternative? The issue isn't what food is perfect, it's what combination of foods are best. The fact is that no single food is ideal for us, we are obligate omnivores and our bodies cope with moderate amounts of toxins with little difficulty. So we need a dense calorie source to keep us moving, SFAs are bad you say? What's the alternative? PUFA for liver damage? Sugar? AGEs. Give us your better answer....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:12 AM

It's been two years and I am up to almost 200lbs smaller and I ate/drank coffee, dark chocolate, a bit of fruit and a bit of yam, sometimes a lot more. I've never opted for lean meat, always ate all the yolks and got fat eating rice and beans as a vegan so yeah I don't get the whole SFA=scary.

4303a65967884e68bfae59817c227351

(1881)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:35 PM

This is where the check mark should've gone. As far as I can tell, eat real food. Plants, animals, maybe a little dairy, hell even a little honey or chocolate for a short burst of happieness and I'd bet dollars to donuts (I still wouldn't eat them of course) that you'd end up with a pretty freaking healthy outcome.

1
Medium avatar

(3213)

on July 17, 2012
at 01:15 PM

So, go eat a PB and J whole wheat sandwich. According to MD it has a mildly anti-inflammatory score. You cannot judge food just by it's inflammatory factor

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 17, 2012
at 10:44 PM

I know that, and I wasn't going to. I was just thinking it was interesting, and myself I get very inflamed when I eat coconut, which is pure saturated, but not when I eat nuts, which even contain some of inflammatory omega 6 but offsetting omega 9 and other nutrients.

1
194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:55 AM

For what it's worth, coconut oil makes my rheumatoid arthritis flare up like crazy.

0
5cb72179fcddcee6a6b570dc80269a1a

(78)

on July 06, 2013
at 08:25 PM

Dunno why all the bad mojo. It's a valid question. No need to get snippy or defensive. You need only stroll through paleohacks and see that people do consume a significant amount of calories from fats like butter and coconut oil, and I'm not talking about "Simply what is needed to cook food" stuff either.

It's like anything that comes remotely close to contradicting, challenging, questioning ancestral practices or paleo nutrition is attacked in a childish way.

0
4f72498f91f4a607d900d77a681a8c5d

on July 06, 2013
at 10:23 AM

2 question:

1: where are the studies/references that say that saturated fat is anti-inflammatory? 2: are there another websites like nutrion.com?

0
49139bfce4d9e12e7bdadc792bac4cdf

on October 21, 2012
at 03:01 PM

Doesn't the existing condition of the person eating the various fats matter, for example someone who is in ketosis or someone not in ketosis who regularly eats a high carb diet in a hot climate? What about an obese, leptin, and insulin resistant person? If someone's hormones are completely wack, wouldn't that affect short term results? What about the notion that ketones made from fat are less oxidative to mitochondria than glucose?

Are seed oils all the same? Lots of seed oils are extremely high in polyunsaturates which can promote inflammation. Macadamia, Avocado oil which is NOT a seed oil, and arguably, sweet almond and high oleic sunflower/safflower oils are not brimming with inflammatory polyunsaturates. Grassfed cow butter contains menatetrenone, A, E, D, B's, folate, carotenoids, butyrate and other health promoting factors which may confound inflammation. Coconut oil is hailed by most as being metabolized for quick energy instead of padding adipose tissue.

I know I have seen abstracts/articles which say proper high fat diets which can include saturated fats contribute to lower triglyceride levels. Livestrong says that in starvation mode, which I think of as ketosis, LDL is metabolized as an energy source.

0
F69da86ad5ad986a09c73abd757863a1

(127)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:43 PM

The Paleo Diet doesn't recommend eating excess coconut oil. It just serves its purpose for cooking better than other oils. It does not go rancid when cooked over high head. Most ignorant Americans cook with olive oil -- what they don't know is olive oil goes rancid above 350*, creating free radicals.

Don't be afraid of fat, but don't go crazy with it either...

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 04:22 PM

Go eat as much seed oils, and see what happens to your inflammation.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 07:53 PM

You have to eat fats. If you stop eating fat you will die. Some fats are anti-inflammatory, some are pro. Some oxidize worse, some don't. I would not recommend getting rid of butter and saturated fats and replacing it with olive oil on everything. People on here might want too, but not I. I also understand the importance if dietary cholesterol on building muscle and hormones. Most foods that contain cholesterol contain saturated fats.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:45 PM

Agree. But most primal's follow the advice of Sisson and Taubes and Jamiet, who say you can eat as much saturated fat as you want.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 17, 2012
at 12:17 AM

Well it really is hard to eat 0 fat but you sure as heck don't need much. Really, you could live off shellfish, fruit and tubers and have no health issues and very, very low fat intake - the sort ornish would wet himself to see.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 16, 2012
at 04:33 PM

There's no magic number over which an oil oxidizes. Olive oil is fine to cook with.

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 04:40 PM

@ RAise- you seem to know your stuff well, but not eating butter or coconut oil does not necessitate eating seed oils. What I am saying is it seems wiser not to eat butter and coconut oil.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 16, 2012
at 06:28 PM

I'm fed up with the don't cook with olive oil crowd. I understand that it smokes easily but there are a LOT of people who cook with it seemingly without problems. I don't think it's a huge problem compared to people just eating proper amounts of food and being more active. Olive oil heating is a mere detail

Medium avatar

(3213)

on July 17, 2012
at 01:09 PM

"Olive oil goes rancid above 350º" Lies!!!

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:30 PM

Chronic inflammation is bad. Not all foods that are inflammatory cause chronic inflammation.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 16, 2012
at 07:01 PM

No, eating something that is inflammatory (but not chronic inflammation) daily would not necessarily make it chronic. Eating too much could. Take exercise, weight training increases acute inflammation (almost the definition of anaerobic exercise). However after recover, it has been shown to decrease oxidative inflammation. Eating good oils is a bit like that. You eat the oil and it does create an acute response, but over time it reduces chronic inflammation by enabling the body to better absorb the nutrients (as part of a health balance as Raise says).

3a9d5dde5212ccd34b860bb6ed07bbef

(1782)

on July 16, 2012
at 03:54 PM

right, but if you're eating them daily, wouldn't that be chronic, low level inflammation?

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 16, 2012
at 11:29 PM

I give up. This is all so, so, so confusing! I'm going to go graze at the foot of the food pyramid where the USDA says it's totally safe.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 16, 2012
at 04:21 PM

you are also eating anti-inflammatory foods every day. If you had a high amount of Omega-3 and low levels of Omega-6 you would have issues also. Balance is the key.

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