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Calories in your coffee while fasted before training....not another mother may I question

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 25, 2012 at 11:43 PM

Bottom line, fasted means no calories. Anything otherwise is a rationalization.

Leangains, IFing, and fasted training are partaken by folks for different reasons and have different results depending on method of execution.

That being said, my goal is fat loss period. I use 16/8 IFing Leangains approach. My fat loss, lean preservation, and overall ripped state has been great. I awake at 5am, train at 11am, eat at 12pm, again at 7pm, sleep at 10pm.

I LOVE coffee. And I LOVE coconut milk in it. I dont enjoy it much black. But, having 40mL coconut milk in my system is not truly fasted training, AND, the fatty acids in my bloodstream interfere with stubborn fat releasing there stores to be burned.

So putting cream in my coffee reduces the effectiveness of fasting and fasted training to burn bodyfat (ESP stubborn kind), full stop.

I've read thru the forums and its always a "mother may I" sort of thing where "I want" and reality conflict, so rationalizations are made, choices are decided upon, and rhetorical questions are put on the forum to justify the user's desires.

So what am I doing/asking here?

I know calories/fat in my coffee reduces the effectiveness of my method of goal attainment.

What I'd like to know from those who may think similarly is to what extent!

Ideas?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on October 27, 2012
at 11:35 AM

@Matt, thanks for this, I'll try it today as it's my workout day.

06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on October 27, 2012
at 04:41 AM

In a nutshell, it reduces recovery time by helping the immune system deal with stress and also helps with muscle glycogen reloading post workout. There was also a link shown with between supplementation and circulating plasma growth hormone. I haven't taken the chance to really dig deep into all the studies but I figured it's enough to warrant some personal testing. Here's the link: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/how-glutamine-benefits-training.htm

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on October 26, 2012
at 02:30 PM

Matt, I do what you do, but why the Glutamine PWO? I generally use it to avoid sugar cravings or to fix gut issues when they happen. Does it do something beneficial PWO?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on October 26, 2012
at 02:28 PM

@animaleat - I find that bulletproof coffee works very nicely to suppress hunger and has a lot of flavor. I sometimes just used canned coconut milk instead (mostly if i wake up very early and don't want to turn on the blender to let everyone else sleep). I do use BCAA, I find I tend to lean out quicker with it for some reason, I'd expect the opposite effect, but so far that's been the result. Of course if you want to lean out the fat from the coffee does count, so limit fats at actual meals.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on October 26, 2012
at 12:17 PM

And thanks so much for sharing your ideas!

Medium avatar

(2417)

on October 26, 2012
at 12:16 PM

I add a bit of coconut milk for texture, palatability, and flavor enhancement of the coffee; not because I'm hungry or need anything to help me thru the fast. Actually, anything more than 40ml, or all that oil and butter, makes me HUNGRIER and makes the fast actually hard (it's easy otherwise). It also would add to my daily macro calorie totals, meaning I'd get to eat less food that day. Lastly, find all that oil or butter destroys the taste and enjoyment of the coffee, and I find I don't need BCAA. For now, i don't care about autophagy, but desire whatever aids pure stubborn fat burning!

Medium avatar

(2417)

on October 26, 2012
at 11:56 AM

I tend to like to let my body and system wake up for a few hours before having caffeine, to enjoy the pleasure but avoid using it to actually wake me up. This ends up being closer to training time. I do indeed IF on the same schedule daily and eat/train/sleep/wake on the same schedule 7 days a week. So if, for the purpose of fat burning, drinking the coffee and coconut cream much earlier than training is best for that goal, I could do that. Thanks for the perspective.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on October 26, 2012
at 11:47 AM

EXCELLENT answer and post. This is exactly the reason why I use this forum, and asked this kind of question here. I drink the coffee for the taste, the love of slowly grinding the beans by hand, making the coffee, enjoin it slowly, and being mentally stimulated and having my mood elevated all day from it. I do not need ANYTHING to wake my mind or body up, or to give me additional power or motivation to weight train. I have tons of natural energy and look forward to training. I enjoy the fat burning enhancement and stimulating effects of caffeine and coffee, as well as green tea.

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3 Answers

1
06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on October 26, 2012
at 03:02 AM

I'll give you my own experiences with IF ad coffee. My goals were body recomp (ie: build muscle, lose fat). I wake up @ 6:30, BFC with 3 tbs. MCT + 2 tbs grass-fed butter. On workout days I break the fast between 3-7 (depending on work schedule) with exercise. I supplement with BCAA's pre and post workout and Glutamine post workout. I then have my first meal of the day post workout with a high carb content(sweet potato, etc.) coupled with whatever protein is on the menu. I will then have another meal before bed.

On non workout days, I stay relatively low carb with only carb sources being non-starchy vegetables (spinach and broccoli).

I IF everyday but I typically throw an unplanned 24 hour fast in the mix once a week.

The Results: Drastic body recomp, much easier meal planning, strength increases (especially relative to weight) as strength went increased as weight decreased.

As a side note: I looked heavily into the effects of the BFC on ketosis and autophagy and it seems to be "cheating the system" as these processes do not seem to be interrupted by the coffee. From an anecdotal standpoint, the results have been great. This approach allowed me to break through a training plateau and is the current protocol I am following now.

Matt
PhysiqueRescue.com

Medium avatar

(2417)

on October 26, 2012
at 12:17 PM

And thanks so much for sharing your ideas!

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on October 26, 2012
at 02:28 PM

@animaleat - I find that bulletproof coffee works very nicely to suppress hunger and has a lot of flavor. I sometimes just used canned coconut milk instead (mostly if i wake up very early and don't want to turn on the blender to let everyone else sleep). I do use BCAA, I find I tend to lean out quicker with it for some reason, I'd expect the opposite effect, but so far that's been the result. Of course if you want to lean out the fat from the coffee does count, so limit fats at actual meals.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on October 26, 2012
at 02:30 PM

Matt, I do what you do, but why the Glutamine PWO? I generally use it to avoid sugar cravings or to fix gut issues when they happen. Does it do something beneficial PWO?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on October 27, 2012
at 11:35 AM

@Matt, thanks for this, I'll try it today as it's my workout day.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on October 26, 2012
at 12:16 PM

I add a bit of coconut milk for texture, palatability, and flavor enhancement of the coffee; not because I'm hungry or need anything to help me thru the fast. Actually, anything more than 40ml, or all that oil and butter, makes me HUNGRIER and makes the fast actually hard (it's easy otherwise). It also would add to my daily macro calorie totals, meaning I'd get to eat less food that day. Lastly, find all that oil or butter destroys the taste and enjoyment of the coffee, and I find I don't need BCAA. For now, i don't care about autophagy, but desire whatever aids pure stubborn fat burning!

06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on October 27, 2012
at 04:41 AM

In a nutshell, it reduces recovery time by helping the immune system deal with stress and also helps with muscle glycogen reloading post workout. There was also a link shown with between supplementation and circulating plasma growth hormone. I haven't taken the chance to really dig deep into all the studies but I figured it's enough to warrant some personal testing. Here's the link: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/how-glutamine-benefits-training.htm

1
68294383ced9a0eafc16133aa80d1905

(5795)

on October 26, 2012
at 12:10 AM

Good question. I'll add two thoughts. Then I'll address the scientific take.

  1. Timing matters MOST. People obsess over WHAT they eat. Sure, that's a big factor. However, WHEN you eat is something that very few people think about. To address your specific example, here's my thought. If you are training at 11 AM and waking up at 5 AM, coffee right after waking, even with some coconut milk, is going to be easily processed metabolically when you work out. If you adhere to a 16/8 approach every day, your body has become adapted to that. It can shift efficiently back into a stored fatty-acid oxidation mode and this only improves the longer you adhere to the program. Google metabolic flexibility. It will give you insight on why many are starting to think that it isn't necessarily how you get energy, but how flexible you are in doing so.

  2. What are you using the coffee for? Is the coffee used because you like the taste? Does it enhance your ability to training harder at 11 AM? If it's the latter, then it's very possible that the benefits of the caffeine may enhance your training to the point that it is more beneficial even with the coconut milk. For instance, I've been tinkering with Expresso as a pre-workout supplement. I usually throw in a little Whey protein and MCT oil into this. My goal is not to burn fat so I am not concerned with the idea of calories coming in right before training, but I CAN say that the boost I get in-terms of training capacity and endurance are worth it. For someone looking to simply burn fat, you would simply want to weigh this type of thing.

When you look at the actual biochemistry, the coconut milk, if made from a quality source, is going to be nearly 95% fat. It will not be as high in MCT's as coconut oil, but it's pretty close. The carbohydrate and protein in coconut milk, especially if you're only having 40 mL, which is the equivalent of about half a serving or 1/6 of a cup. Given the heavy load of MCT's and the negligible carbohydrate and protein, you are NOT going to disrupt Ketosis. You can argue that even far more coconut fat wouldn't interrupt Ketosis either. Where you DO get into a slippery slope are the other benefits of fasting. If your goal is strictly burning fat, you should be fine, especially if you adhere to what I discussed earlier and pay attention to timing. In-terms of the other benefits, you WILL have a Cortisol response from the coffee and certain enzymes will be produced in digestion and a hormonal response from ingestion of the macro-nutrients.

Not sure if you have read much about him, but for this topic I would recommend reading more by Jeff Volek. He addresses this specific issue many times in various resources.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on October 26, 2012
at 11:47 AM

EXCELLENT answer and post. This is exactly the reason why I use this forum, and asked this kind of question here. I drink the coffee for the taste, the love of slowly grinding the beans by hand, making the coffee, enjoin it slowly, and being mentally stimulated and having my mood elevated all day from it. I do not need ANYTHING to wake my mind or body up, or to give me additional power or motivation to weight train. I have tons of natural energy and look forward to training. I enjoy the fat burning enhancement and stimulating effects of caffeine and coffee, as well as green tea.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on October 26, 2012
at 11:56 AM

I tend to like to let my body and system wake up for a few hours before having caffeine, to enjoy the pleasure but avoid using it to actually wake me up. This ends up being closer to training time. I do indeed IF on the same schedule daily and eat/train/sleep/wake on the same schedule 7 days a week. So if, for the purpose of fat burning, drinking the coffee and coconut cream much earlier than training is best for that goal, I could do that. Thanks for the perspective.

-1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on November 27, 2012
at 06:19 PM

I recommened Organo gold. Try organo gold Coffee. should help you.. http://mycapturepage.com/cp23.php?id=470

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