1

votes

Skyrocketing LDL at 313 - concerns?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 30, 2011 at 6:50 AM

I just got a call from my doctor blown away by cholesterol as I'm actually under weight.

Overall: 406 LDL: 313 HDL: 58 TRIG: 77

I haven't got previous figures to compare against but recall being tested 10 years ago and having the numbers declared excellent by the doctor.

This last six weeks I've been healing my gut by primarily eating extremely high fat bone broth, tallow and meat. I started gradually reintroducing vegetable and white rice over the last few days and all is going well.

Given the amount of fat I've been eating (which is probably as high as you can possibly go as my protein intake remained at maintenance levels) a high number is not a huge surprise.

I'm not overly concerned, should I be?

I should be able to bring it down a bit as I'm gradually replacing some of the fat with carbs. But should I seriously consider aiming for a much more moderate fat intake or keep it high as I like to?

How temporary are the numbers? I'm sure my pre-paleo numbers (3 months ago) would have been fine. If I went back to pre-paleo (not a serious consideration) would my numbers just as quickly return to what they were?

Needless to say my doctor is telling me I need statins.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on May 30, 2013
at 04:59 PM

Eating eggs or butter? Stop

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on October 01, 2011
at 02:27 AM

Thanks Quilt. It was hard enough to get my doctor to test for TSH with him telling me there was no way I had thyroid issues. I guess it's time to grab my results and travel long distances to find a doctor that will work with me. Thanks again.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on October 01, 2011
at 01:05 AM

Thyroid is the problem for sure......regardless of the tsh. T3 needsmwork make sure vitamin A is ok and cut all dairy.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:51 PM

According to the phone call with my doctor my TSH is fine but he didn't give me the number as the phone call understandably focused on my cholesterol.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Thanks. Yes, I've been reading Paul Jaminet's posts on this and am going to start supplementing as you've suggested. According to my doctor my TSH is fine but he didn't give me the number over the phone - I'll pick up copies of the results next week

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:46 PM

Thanks. Yeah, I would have liked a higher HDL reading there.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:45 PM

Primarily red meat and tallow. Plus sardines and mackerel. Basically replacing some of the fat with white rice.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:42 PM

Thanks Travis. I hope you're right. I did go from swimming in butter to drowning in other fats over that period. I'm starting to wonder if I've been consuming massive amounts more calories than I've been expending. Throughout my life I've had to overeat to keep my weight up and I think the fat took me by surprise in that I seem to be able to consume so much of it before having the full stomach to tell me to stop.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:34 PM

Thanks Dean. Lots of possibilities and maybe some connection there. The thing is I am now feeling so much better than when I made that original post.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:30 PM

I didn't discuss my diet. I live very remotely and have access to only one doctor. Thanks for the reply - my plan is six months.

0dbd7154d909b97fe774d1655754f195

(16131)

on September 30, 2011
at 01:51 PM

How is your thyroid. I have read that sometimes people with low thyroid (underweight people often have low thyroid) have high LDL.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on September 30, 2011
at 10:04 AM

What about fat and protein wise?

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:30 AM

I just found the Paul Jaminet post http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=2536 I am actually reading the Perfect Health Diet right now and maybe transitioning to something like that will be possible. It'll be interesting to see what difference that may make.

41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on September 30, 2011
at 07:29 AM

6 weeks might not be long enough dairy free to drop it down to a normal level. I'd think could still possibly be playing a roll. But he's the one with the theory on this, so I'll let him chime in. ...Travis?

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:29 AM

White rice, bananas, berries, and moderate vegetables. My digestion has always been delicate - I can't overdo the vegetables and can't handle safe starches other than rice.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:26 AM

I was high butter until about 6 weeks ago. Then I totally dropped dairy.

41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on September 30, 2011
at 07:17 AM

and this.. http://paleohacks.com/questions/36855/i-think-i-may-have-figured-out-why-some-of-us-have-really-high-ldl#axzz1NZ2Ngj3p

41dfb1a4fecb38d24075ff52f13ccb28

on September 30, 2011
at 07:16 AM

Are you eating butter? I think I remember Travis mentioning something similar happening to him when he was eating a lot of butter. See here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/62948/should-we-be-more-reluctant-to-have-a-heavy-butter-cream-intake#axzz1ZOpmuOMQ

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7 Answers

4
Medium avatar

on September 30, 2011
at 06:35 PM

Yeah, it's almost certainly the butter. I hit 393 total cholesterol with a heavy butter intake.

If it's that high after 6 weeks without it, you can be pretty sure that it was much higher before you stopped. Mine dropped 20-something% after 5-6 weeks without butter. You don't want your LDL to be that high because it's not really possible to turn the particles over fast enough before they become oxidized. This isn't going to kill you tomorrow, but you really don't want to simulate heterozygous familial hypercholesterolemia with butter.

Basically, don't eat any dairy fat for 3 months and re-test. Luckily now that you scared the hell out of your doctor, he'll be far more likely to run VAP tests etc. You will come back with a Type A particle size, which is better than if it were Type B, but at your level it's not "healthy" as some might tell you.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:42 PM

Thanks Travis. I hope you're right. I did go from swimming in butter to drowning in other fats over that period. I'm starting to wonder if I've been consuming massive amounts more calories than I've been expending. Throughout my life I've had to overeat to keep my weight up and I think the fat took me by surprise in that I seem to be able to consume so much of it before having the full stomach to tell me to stop.

2
2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on September 30, 2011
at 05:45 PM

A similar thing happened to me. My TC was 400. Considering that your other question is about SIBO and probably leaky gut, situations I also dealt with, I'm thinking there might be a connection. For example, bacteria might migrate from the intestines into the bloodstream and cause inflammation/atherosclerosis, which cholesterol would fight. Or there could be another chronic infection. A high fat diet might enable the body to create much higher levels of TC than usual, perhaps adequate to the onstorm of bacteria. It's just a theory, but maybe it could be tested with a course of antibiotics that is indicated anyways in SIBO. High iodine and selenium supplementation might help, both by fighting infection and helping the thyroid. Zinc can help heal leaky gut at high doses and anything strengthening the immune system ought to help.

Writings that helped put me somewhat at ease about high cholesterol include the book "Ignore the Awkward" and this short page. It might be better to fight any chronic infections than to fight high cholesterol.

What I wonder is if very high cholesterol on a high fat diet also happens to people in absolutely perfect health.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:34 PM

Thanks Dean. Lots of possibilities and maybe some connection there. The thing is I am now feeling so much better than when I made that original post.

1
76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on September 30, 2011
at 05:19 PM

I believe the general consensus is that high LDL on a paleo diet could be related to:

  1. Micronutrient deficiency (http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=2547)

  2. Low thyroid function (this probably overlaps with micronutrient deficiency)

  3. Eating lots of dairy fat (butter and cream)

  4. Whether you are currently in the process of losing weight/reversing metabolic damage.

I would probably not worry about it for now. Make sure you're getting adequate iodine, selenium, magnesium, zinc, vitamin D, etc. then maybe check again in a while. If LDL is still that high (or higher), I would experiment with eating less butter/cream or consider getting a thyroid panel done.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:49 PM

Thanks. Yes, I've been reading Paul Jaminet's posts on this and am going to start supplementing as you've suggested. According to my doctor my TSH is fine but he didn't give me the number over the phone - I'll pick up copies of the results next week

1
24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on September 30, 2011
at 10:51 AM

Did you discuss your diet with your doctor? Jimmy Moore's LDL went through the roof after his egg fast experiment. Granted that was a weight loss thing, but it was a very high fat diet. If you were eating a lot of fat and not a lot of carbs this doesn't surprise me. Should you be concerned? I wouldn't be for now. Check again in 6 months perhaps and see if things have settled down.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:30 PM

I didn't discuss my diet. I live very remotely and have access to only one doctor. Thanks for the reply - my plan is six months.

0
1ee7e1b0c35237ca2212ab2f7b25ce4d

on May 30, 2013
at 03:52 PM

I just experienced the same thing. I went on the AutoImmune Paleo protocol and had blood work done, and results were shocking. My LDL was high and a few other issues that I have NEVER had before. I get my blood checked yearly and my LDL has always been fantastic per the doctors. I am only 31 years old and I teach dance for a living (plus I have a busy-body 4 yr old to keep up with during the day). I only went on the AI diet to help get my mild eczema and asthma under control. I have not eaten dairy for the better part of 2 yrs after discovering that I am lactose intolerant, so I can tell you it is not due to butter. I just got the results yesterday, but I do have a theory. I think that I fundamentally changed the PH levels in my body as I was trying to heal my gut, which led to the increased levels of LDL and the other issues. LDL is the only one that has several possible causes, but the other conditions only have one reason- PH levels change causing bacterial overgrowth. I am going to my GI to request to be weened of of Prilosec and have my stomach acid levels checked. I am thinking that there is a strong possibility that my stomach acid is too low, which caused the whole PH change and led to the LDL and other issues.

Good luck!

0
E040cb40de8ffe5cd38ae53a7ce5c598

on September 30, 2011
at 05:08 PM

I don't recall what the "recommended" level of LDL is. However, the triglyceride count looks pretty damned low to me, which I recall Robb Wolf saying would indicate it's more of the relatively harmless large particle type LDL.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about the low HDL number, but I'd not go nuts over it.

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:46 PM

Thanks. Yeah, I would have liked a higher HDL reading there.

0
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:13 AM

That is high for sure... HDL is fine. I would make soem dietary changes for sure. Can you list what you are going to try eating instead?

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:29 AM

White rice, bananas, berries, and moderate vegetables. My digestion has always been delicate - I can't overdo the vegetables and can't handle safe starches other than rice.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on September 30, 2011
at 10:04 AM

What about fat and protein wise?

0e9ddbd345ed53954d2c3eb4edc954c9

(203)

on September 30, 2011
at 07:45 PM

Primarily red meat and tallow. Plus sardines and mackerel. Basically replacing some of the fat with white rice.

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