0

votes

Has anyone fixed their rising LDL by supplementing choline, inisitol, zinc, selenium, & copper?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 09, 2012 at 2:09 PM

So I'm 3 months paleo now. I take my cholesterol every 2 weeks with a CardioChek machine. My TG are fairly stable around 85-95 (unless I've been binging on nuts in which they jump to 130 for a day or two). My HDL is pathetic as always staying stuck around 30-34. But my LDL has shot up from 75-80 to 126! This happened in only 2.5 weeks from March 15 - April 5 on my third month of eating Paleo. WTF?! Now my HDL/LDL ratio is terrible. It was already bad to begin with because I've never had HDL higher than a 36 in my life (genetic?)

So I've been reading about what might be causing the LDL to rise. I'm hearing things from too many dietary saturated fats, not enough carbs, to micronutrient deficiencies like choline, inisitol, zinc, selenium, and copper. I know I'm already sub-clinical hypothyroid. My TSH is always between 4.8 - 7. I tried levothyroxine once and I thought I was going to have a heart attack on it - I reacted terribly with high blood pressure spikes and chest tightness. So I'm not taking anything for it now. Iodine scares me because some people say it can make hypothyroidism worse - not better. In fact, I've been taking fucoxathin which for the past couple months too and that already contains iodine so....

Since so many of you here have had the same problem of LDL going up, have any of you been able to fix it with supplements like choline, inisitol, zinc, selenium, & copper? Any recommendations?

I don't want to give up eating Paleo. For the first time in my life, I can fit into size 30 Levi Skinnys! But having high LDL and stubborn HDL stuck in the 30s isn't a long term solution either.

Please Help! :-)

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on May 07, 2012
at 05:49 PM

Yeah -- that's why I said even worrying about the particle size is more trouble than it's worth. Bottom line: eat the foods you know you should, avoid the ones you shouldn't, and things should generally be good to go. I'm with ya though -- the deeper we dig into all this, the more confusing it gets. FOREST>trees.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on May 07, 2012
at 05:47 PM

I second your comment, Amy, about the LDL particle size. D.K., if your carb intake is low then you probably don't need to worry too much about your rising LDL's.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on May 07, 2012
at 05:13 PM

For what it's worth, I believe that short and intense exercise has helped boost my HDL. I'm not sure if the science backs that up or not, but my HDL literally doubled in a matter of weeks when I started with HIIT and paleo eating. Surely the HIIT contributed.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on May 07, 2012
at 04:56 PM

Chris Masterjohn has recently stated that particle size tests aren't ready for prime time. (see, e.g., http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2012/02/my-cholesterol-101-q-podcast-on-ask-low.html) So I don't know what the hell to think anymore.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 07, 2012
at 04:36 PM

@Jay, but those are whole food sources of omega-6s. He'd be hard-pressed to overeat them to the point that the omega-6 content becomes problematic. Certainly white fish like talapia and avocados aren't high in omega-6s. Nuts can be a bit high, but as long as he's not gorging on them, it shouldn't be a problem.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:52 PM

Dave got a good point. The numbers can lead to bad health, but do you really think bringing it down with artificial stuff is going to solve everything, especially as nutrition science still doesn't know the causes of many things?

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 10, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Yeah, mackerel sounds good. I also love sardines (the high quality kind). I've been told my HDL is a genetic problem. I've literally tried every conceivable supplement to try and boost it with no luck. So while this paleo diet has lowered by blood pressure from 150/90 to 115/75 in three months, and the fact that I've lost 21 pounds of belly fat in the same time period, I'm pretty upset that my LDL is climbing up and leaving my HDL behind. Could it be too early to assume this is permanent?

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 10, 2012
at 12:30 AM

I don't think it's overkill. :-) You may want to switch it up with another good fatty fish like mackerel for variety. Also consider sardines and smelts!

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 09, 2012
at 08:35 PM

Would eating wild salmon 4 times a week (or every other day) be overkill?

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 09, 2012
at 08:06 PM

Avocados (like olives/olive oil) have a reasonable 6:3 ratio compared to overall amount, since the vast majority of the fat is MUFA. However, I generally agree with @Jay's sentiment. Shame you can't eat avocados! If you do go for salmon, make sure to get wild caught and not farmed that are fed corn (seriously).

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on April 09, 2012
at 07:17 PM

You eat too much omega 6 in my opinion. Talapia, avocado, and nuts are all high omega 6 foods.

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 09, 2012
at 03:08 PM

I eat mushrooms and fish nearly every day. I might cut back the tilapia and mahi and focus more on salmon so I get even more Omega 3's, but I'm already supplementing with 2G a day of omega 3s in capsule form. I can't eat avocados though - gives me gas, bloating, and pain. I "feel" fantastic so far, but I don't want to develop heart disease or clogged arteries all because of this diet spiking up my LDL.

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 09, 2012
at 03:04 PM

Because the numbers can lead to bad health later down the road.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on April 09, 2012
at 02:23 PM

Why do you insist on treating a number instead of your health?

  • 531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

    asked by

    (1205)
  • Views
    3.8K
  • Last Activity
    1282D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

4 Answers

2
Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on May 07, 2012
at 04:37 PM

Have you looked into your LDL particle size at all?

More and more evidence seems to be emerging that it's not total LDL that you should be concerned with, but rather the particle size. You want to aim for more of what they call the "large fluffy" type and not the "small dense."

Kind of like how we used to look at total cholesterol and freak out before the scientific community understood more about LDL, HDL, and trigs. Don't sweat your total LDL if you don't know your particle breakdowns. (And I would even say don't sweat that too much, either. The cortisol from stressing over the minutia will probably do you more damage than anything from the blood lipids anyway!) ;-)

Generally speaking, people who eat relatively fewer carbohydrates have low trigs and their LDL is mostly the large, fluffy type. They seem to go hand in hand.

Re: low thyroid function -- I have to look around for a good source, but I remember reading that high LDL usually goes along with hypothyroid b/c you need thyroid hormone for proper functioning of the LDL receptor. (Again, not sure of the details. I'll try to find a citation somewhere.)

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on May 07, 2012
at 05:49 PM

Yeah -- that's why I said even worrying about the particle size is more trouble than it's worth. Bottom line: eat the foods you know you should, avoid the ones you shouldn't, and things should generally be good to go. I'm with ya though -- the deeper we dig into all this, the more confusing it gets. FOREST>trees.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on May 07, 2012
at 04:56 PM

Chris Masterjohn has recently stated that particle size tests aren't ready for prime time. (see, e.g., http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2012/02/my-cholesterol-101-q-podcast-on-ask-low.html) So I don't know what the hell to think anymore.

782d92f4127823bdfb2ddfcbcf961d0e

(5231)

on May 07, 2012
at 05:47 PM

I second your comment, Amy, about the LDL particle size. D.K., if your carb intake is low then you probably don't need to worry too much about your rising LDL's.

0
17a97e09a1b23bc733ae22880a961b59

on August 11, 2012
at 09:32 PM

I've had high LDL for a long time then finally noticed that I had a manganese deficiency (7.3 whole blood manganese) and after treating that (up to 12.3 now, taking Mn 50mg/day) the LDL has started coming down. In just the past 5 months its come down from 140 to 84 and has dropped over 20 points in just the past month alone. All without any change in diet, and I don't exercise.

0
C3fcf981139cc68a016ecbbe4f784155

on July 22, 2012
at 11:32 AM

Perhaps consider doing megadose full-flush, immediate-relased niacin (nicotinic acid). It increased my HDL from 39 to 68 and tripled the protective HDL2b subfraction? Get your liver monitored if you do niacin and start at a small dose (50mg or so) then work your way up to 1,500-3,000mg. Not everyone can tolerate high-dose niacin but for those who can it has incomparable results. It also lowered my LDL from 135 to 74 (you need to take over 2,000, i think, for the LDL-lowering benefits; apparently one gets the full HDL-raising benefits at around 1,500). Do see a doctor if you go this route.

0
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 09, 2012
at 02:48 PM

How is your diet in respect to HDL raising foods?

Avocadoes? Olive oil? Niacin in fish and mushrooms? All good for getting a better ratio.

... but I have to second @Dave S's comment - it's fun to track stats and changes, but worry about your actual health and how you feel first.

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 09, 2012
at 08:35 PM

Would eating wild salmon 4 times a week (or every other day) be overkill?

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 09, 2012
at 03:08 PM

I eat mushrooms and fish nearly every day. I might cut back the tilapia and mahi and focus more on salmon so I get even more Omega 3's, but I'm already supplementing with 2G a day of omega 3s in capsule form. I can't eat avocados though - gives me gas, bloating, and pain. I "feel" fantastic so far, but I don't want to develop heart disease or clogged arteries all because of this diet spiking up my LDL.

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on April 10, 2012
at 03:05 PM

Yeah, mackerel sounds good. I also love sardines (the high quality kind). I've been told my HDL is a genetic problem. I've literally tried every conceivable supplement to try and boost it with no luck. So while this paleo diet has lowered by blood pressure from 150/90 to 115/75 in three months, and the fact that I've lost 21 pounds of belly fat in the same time period, I'm pretty upset that my LDL is climbing up and leaving my HDL behind. Could it be too early to assume this is permanent?

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 09, 2012
at 08:06 PM

Avocados (like olives/olive oil) have a reasonable 6:3 ratio compared to overall amount, since the vast majority of the fat is MUFA. However, I generally agree with @Jay's sentiment. Shame you can't eat avocados! If you do go for salmon, make sure to get wild caught and not farmed that are fed corn (seriously).

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on April 10, 2012
at 12:30 AM

I don't think it's overkill. :-) You may want to switch it up with another good fatty fish like mackerel for variety. Also consider sardines and smelts!

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on April 09, 2012
at 07:17 PM

You eat too much omega 6 in my opinion. Talapia, avocado, and nuts are all high omega 6 foods.

Da3d4a6835c0f5256b2ef829b3ba3393

on May 07, 2012
at 05:13 PM

For what it's worth, I believe that short and intense exercise has helped boost my HDL. I'm not sure if the science backs that up or not, but my HDL literally doubled in a matter of weeks when I started with HIIT and paleo eating. Surely the HIIT contributed.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on May 07, 2012
at 04:36 PM

@Jay, but those are whole food sources of omega-6s. He'd be hard-pressed to overeat them to the point that the omega-6 content becomes problematic. Certainly white fish like talapia and avocados aren't high in omega-6s. Nuts can be a bit high, but as long as he's not gorging on them, it shouldn't be a problem.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!