8

votes

Hack my ignorance re: Apo E4

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 01, 2011 at 4:22 AM

This came up in my Google Reader feed, and now I'm all paranoid: http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2011/07/the-exception-to-low-carb.html.

I want to run out and get my genes examined, but I don't know the first thing about Apo E4. My last blood work results were fine, so I should just calm down. Then again, that was two years ago, and I've been eating plenty o' fat in the meantime.

Where's a good place to start? Wikipedia met with limited success.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:17 PM

Well, I'm pretty happy with 23andMe. I'm not a software engineer, and they make things easy; some other labs seem to think you might want to write your own dang analysis program. I signed up when they had a sale -- they waived the $99 if you joined their site for $10/month, which I would have done anyway. By chance, I have a coupon for $50 off this week, which they say I can share with as many people as I like, so Jack, you or anyone else who wants one can email me at roseannamsmith AT gmail dot com.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:12 PM

Do I have to sign up with them for $99 to get my genome? That's really what I wonder... is what is the best way to go before I take the plunge and shell out coin somewhere, or is it basically just go with whoever and don't worry about researching it too much?

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 01, 2011
at 09:08 PM

There are several companies out there, Jack. I used 23andMe.com, but I've since learned that different labs have different "slants," or are best at different things. FamilyTreeDNA specializes in genetic genealogy, 23andMe is more medical with some ancestry, and so on. Once you have your genome, you can do cool things with it on sites like gedmatch, or see how Neandertal you are here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/52325/how-neanderthal-are-you-and-what-is-your-ideal-diet-like#axzz1TnS1rKdf

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:55 PM

how do i get my genome Rose?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:23 PM

It’s pretty scary for me to think that maybe I am not supposed to be eating very much saturated fat. If it’s true that is unbelievably lame. This is why I’m thinking I need to check to see if I am ApoE4. (How do I test for that?) If I am, then it may explain why, even on a Paleo diet, my LDL is mostly small dense. Are you suggesting that if I keep PUFA very low, like cut out my only remaining source (almonds/pecans), that this could be a key to producing more pattern A LDL? (By the way… I have chosen to eliminate all nuts and nut butters, regardless).

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:19 PM

Am I understanding correctly that Apo E4 is most common in people of northern European ancestry? I'm puzzled by this since we would have had higher animal fat and protein intake once our ancestors moved to that area than those in more temperate climates. Is there an advantage to Apo E4 before and during reproductive years in cold climates? If not, why didn't that gene variation die off? I too experience depression on low fat diets - this doesn't seem conducive to either reproduction or caring for young.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on August 01, 2011
at 12:12 PM

And I totally disagree with him on Saturated fats......Dr Davis that is. Sat fat does not cause heart disease and never has.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:39 AM

I also worry about information like this possibly being used against us for things like life insurance. Until we know how to intelligently apply the information from genetic testing, ignorance may be bliss, at least when it comes to your pocketbook.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:36 AM

That I do not know. I have the gene, and when I cut out grain and sugar from my diet my triglycerides go down, when I add them they go back up, so I've just been using triglyceride numbers to track insulin resistance.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:16 AM

If you follow the link I lay out my train wreck of an experience with the Berkeley Heart Labs recommended diet for having an apo e4 allele. First you have to jump through the lipid hypothesis hoop if you are going to worry about what they are saying. Secondly, you would have to believe lower ldl at all costs = a better quality of life. I went from being a normal happy person to near suicidal in 8 weeks. I'm going with the Quilt's interpretation of apo e4 in regards to vitamin d synthesis and telling you how far north your ancestors migrated.

B0454de6d4f4cdd9ca2e59021dc105bf

(606)

on August 01, 2011
at 07:46 AM

Please elaborate HN.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:24 AM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/50789/why-does-ldl-skyrocket-when-doing-paleo-it-could-be-apoe#axzz1TkbYKSU8 Personally, I think the Apo E research has been misused or at least misunderstood by many researchers.

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4 Answers

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4
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on August 01, 2011
at 12:11 PM

I think the ApoE4 story is an interesting one and one I briefly touched upon in my AD blog.......I will revisit it.......but ultimately I dont think it is that important if you live an optimal life from 20-60. ApoE4 means much if you make poor epigenetic choices. I think people who come here do do what the rest of America does.

The other reason I think it means little is the epidemiology of ApoE4 in those over 80 yrs old. It does not have any major impact on healthy aging once you get to old age. That tells me that the epigenetic signals need also be present for it to matter.

ApoE4 is dynamite.......and High insulin and high PUFA consumption are the major lit matches. If they exist by themselves they are harmless......but if they are brought together you are going to get heart disease and AD early and get taken out.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on August 01, 2011
at 12:12 PM

And I totally disagree with him on Saturated fats......Dr Davis that is. Sat fat does not cause heart disease and never has.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:23 PM

It’s pretty scary for me to think that maybe I am not supposed to be eating very much saturated fat. If it’s true that is unbelievably lame. This is why I’m thinking I need to check to see if I am ApoE4. (How do I test for that?) If I am, then it may explain why, even on a Paleo diet, my LDL is mostly small dense. Are you suggesting that if I keep PUFA very low, like cut out my only remaining source (almonds/pecans), that this could be a key to producing more pattern A LDL? (By the way… I have chosen to eliminate all nuts and nut butters, regardless).

1
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on September 16, 2011
at 05:30 AM

I found this article to be very interesting in regards to Apo E4. Maybe I just like it because it lays out why it is so awesome. Does come with a cautionary note about Apo E4 folks lacking the ability to detoxify from heavy metals as easily as other folks (Yikes! Damn these amalgam fillings!) because of a lack of cysteine. I wonder if that explains why I need NAC? Anyway, have a looksie if your docs have you scared about hypercholesterolemia, you'll feel better.

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com/2011/06/ancestral-allele-apoe4-super-brain.html

1
B0454de6d4f4cdd9ca2e59021dc105bf

on August 01, 2011
at 07:53 AM

I read Dr. Davis' post today as well and having APO E4 would certainly be a reason to rethink how much saturated fats you can safely eat. Elsewhere, I read that people with high LDL and triglycerides that stay high even after making dietary changes should consider being tested for APO E4. So by that logic, if you had low triglycerides, do you think it would be unlikely that you have this gene?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:36 AM

That I do not know. I have the gene, and when I cut out grain and sugar from my diet my triglycerides go down, when I add them they go back up, so I've just been using triglyceride numbers to track insulin resistance.

1
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:26 AM

Yep, you need your genes assayed to know whether you're APO E4 or not. If you've got your genome handy, here's the chart for determining your APOE type:

rs429358+rs7412

??2 = T + T

??3 = T + C

??4 = C + C

We've each got two copies of this allele, so you can be an ??3/??3, or an ??3/??4, or some other combination (the fourth possible allele, CT, has never been observed, according to 23andMe).

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 01, 2011
at 08:55 PM

how do i get my genome Rose?

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 01, 2011
at 09:08 PM

There are several companies out there, Jack. I used 23andMe.com, but I've since learned that different labs have different "slants," or are best at different things. FamilyTreeDNA specializes in genetic genealogy, 23andMe is more medical with some ancestry, and so on. Once you have your genome, you can do cool things with it on sites like gedmatch, or see how Neandertal you are here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/52325/how-neanderthal-are-you-and-what-is-your-ideal-diet-like#axzz1TnS1rKdf

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:17 PM

Well, I'm pretty happy with 23andMe. I'm not a software engineer, and they make things easy; some other labs seem to think you might want to write your own dang analysis program. I signed up when they had a sale -- they waived the $99 if you joined their site for $10/month, which I would have done anyway. By chance, I have a coupon for $50 off this week, which they say I can share with as many people as I like, so Jack, you or anyone else who wants one can email me at roseannamsmith AT gmail dot com.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:12 PM

Do I have to sign up with them for $99 to get my genome? That's really what I wonder... is what is the best way to go before I take the plunge and shell out coin somewhere, or is it basically just go with whoever and don't worry about researching it too much?

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