3

votes

Got my VAP test results - now what?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created November 09, 2011 at 4:03 PM

If you recall, I'm the OP from the "Had a Heart Attack" thread. http://paleohacks.com/questions/68443/had-a-heart-attack-need-suggestions#axzz1Zimd5Kbd

Anyway, before going off on any of the suggestions, I thought a VAP might be helpful. Well, now I'm really unsure of what to do from here. I guess as suggested in the other thread I need to go down the Virus path and have that checked out. Anything else here that jumps out at you?

Glucose, Serum 95 mg/dL 65-99 01
Uric Acid, Serum 6.1 mg/dL 3.7-8.6 01
BUN 23 HIGH mg/dL 6-20 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.11 mg/dL 0.76-1.27 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 85 mL/min/1.73 >59 01
eGFR If Africn Am 98 mL/min/1.73 >59 01
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 21 HIGH 8-19 01
Sodium, Serum 138 mmol/L 135-145 01
Potassium, Serum 4.7 mmol/L 3.5-5.2 01
Chloride, Serum 102 mmol/L 97-108 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 23 mmol/L 20-32 01
Calcium, Serum 10.0 mg/dL 8.7-10.2 01
Phosphorus, Serum 3.4 mg/dL 2.5-4.5 01
Protein, Total, Serum 6.8 g/dL 6.0-8.5 01
Albumin, Serum 4.6 g/dL 3.5-5.5 01
Globulin, Total 2.2 g/dL 1.5-4.5 01
A/G Ratio 2.1 1.1-2.5 01
Bilirubin, Total 0.6 mg/dL 0.0-1.2 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 39 IU/L 25-150 01
LDH 113 IU/L 0-225 01
AST (SGOT) 19 IU/L 0-40 01
ALT (SGPT) 25 IU/L 0-55 01
GGT 7 IU/L 0-65 01
Iron, Serum 82 ug/dL 40-155 01
Cholesterol, Total 232 HIGH mg/dL 100-199 01
Triglycerides 188 HIGH mg/dL 0-149 01
HDL Cholesterol 34 LOW mg/dL >39 01
According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered a
negative risk factor for CHD.
LDL Cholesterol Calc 160 HIGH mg/dL 0-99 01
T. Chol/HDL Ratio 6.8 HIGH ratio units 0.0-5.0 01
TSH 1.300 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500 01
Thyroxine (T4) 8.3 ug/dL 4.5-12.0 01
T3 Uptake 35 % 24-39 01

Free Thyroxine Index 2.9 1.2-4.9 01
WBC 5.2 x10E3/uL 4.0-10.5 01
RBC 5.41 x10E6/uL 4.10-5.60 01
Hemoglobin 16.1 g/dL 12.5-17.0 01
Hematocrit 48.0 % 36.0-50.0 01
MCV 89 fL 80-98 01
MCH 29.8 pg 27.0-34.0 01
MCHC 33.5 g/dL 32.0-36.0 01
RDW 14.0 % 11.7-15.0 01
Platelets 267 x10E3/uL 140-415 01
Neutrophils 56 % 40-74 01
Lymphs 28 % 14-46 01
Monocytes 9 % 4-13 01
Eos 6 % 0-7 01
Basos 1 % 0-3 01
Immature Cells 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 3.0 x10E3/uL 1.8-7.8 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.4 x10E3/uL 0.7-4.5 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 x10E3/uL 0.1-1.0 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.3 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % 0-2 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1 01
Hematology Comments: 01
LDL Cholesterol 156 HIGH mg/dL <130 02
HDL Cholesterol 29 LOW mg/dL >=40 02
VLDL Cholesterol 50 HIGH mg/dL <30 02
Cholesterol, Total 235 HIGH mg/dL <200 02
Triglycerides 190 HIGH mg/dL <150 02
Non HDL Chol. (LDL+VLDL) 206 HIGH mg/dL <160 02
apoB100-calc 132 HIGH mg/dL <109 02
LDL-R (Real)-C 116 HIGH mg/dL <100 02
Lp(a) Cholesterol 4.0 mg/dL <10 02
IDL Cholesterol 36 HIGH mg/dL <20 02
Remnant Lipo. (IDL+VLDL3) 66 HIGH mg/dL <30 02
Probable Metabolic Syndrome Yes Abnormal No 02
HDL-2 (Most Protective) 5 LOW mg/dL >10 02
HDL-3 (Less Protective) 24 LOW mg/dL >30 02
VLDL-3 (Small Remnant) 30 HIGH mg/dL <10 02

LDL1 Pattern A 22.4 mg/dL 02
LDL2 Pattern A 10.9 mg/dL 02
LDL3 Pattern B 62.3 mg/dL 02
LDL4 Pattern B 20.5 mg/dL 02
LDL Density Pattern B Abnormal A 02

C-Reactive Protein, Cardiac 0.93 mg/L 0.00-3.00 01

Homocyst(e)ine, Plasma 4.4 umol/L 0.0-15.0 01

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Here is the meal plan I've come up with to implement Dr Quilts recommendation. Breakfast - full fat greek yogurt, spoonful coconut oil, handful of berries and flax seed. Lunch - salad with avocado, olive oil. Dinner - Salmon/Tuna/Shrimp with veggies. Does that fit the rx? Anything I'm missing? – berger6696 0 secs ago

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Thanks Travis. Like i said above, I dont feel like I have any intestinal or digestive problems. I dont think I have a leaky gut or intestinal permeability. Do my labs say otherwise? Maybe. I really dont know. It seems like they haven't gotten better, and I just feel like I'm pissing into the wind trying something new every month. What do you make of the drastic increase of TGs over the past 5 weeks? ApoE4?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 23, 2011
at 06:30 PM

I got another high reading (140/86) at lunch. I'll see what my FP says (fwiw, everytime I go to my cardio my reading is fine except once it was 136/82).

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:53 PM

Namby mentioned protein intake and I think the evidence is weak. Please see this prior thread at PH: http://paleohacks.com/questions/8040/protein-and-kidneys/8114#8114

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:52 PM

Hydration adequacy is important. Our kidneys do a good jib of excreting toxins and without fluids, this vital function can be imapired. Strong work! The 83 still appears midly high for your age, but as Namby says and I concur strongly stay chill. No worries.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 22, 2011
at 01:32 PM

Thanks grace! Made an appt with my FP to chat about my kidneys. Also, I did another BP test Sun and the reading was 117/83. Different machine, but it was after I'd sucked down quite a bit of water. Going to test it again today on my lunch (same machine that turned up the above bad #'s) and will make every effort to be well hydrated before I go.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:14 AM

omega 3 and meat act as ace inhibitors according to clinical trials. consider these BP before ever using a xenobiotic, eg pharmaceutical which are associated with numerous adverse effects. (google 'meat and omega 3 as ace inhibitor')

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:10 AM

See below for more info... Kruse has a list also of top ten supps is superb! http://www.baumancollege.com/pdfs/articles/MTCardioFinal.pdf

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:06 AM

Id concur with Namby's hypertension comments! With SAD damage, calcified fatty deposits occur in the vacsulature (high BP) kidney(elevated SCr, microalbuminuria), and liver (fatty liver). It is all reversible with time and repletion of lost and depleted nutrients and appropriate lifestyles to restore and optimize hormones (adrenal, thyroid, testosterone, dhea, preg, progesterone, etc). For BP consider the value of mag and omega3.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 20, 2011
at 02:56 AM

Thanks for ur response. Are there any residual T2DM complications? That hgba1c is impressive. Do you supplement Magnesium? Mag is lowered by vitamin D and exercise/sweating and dietary sources are not sufficient to meet needs imho despite paleo sources. Mag controls BP and impacts insulin when deficient... Mag also as ur probably aware improves constipation as well. Big C is a gut flora and mineral issue. Carbs change the gut flora obviously so that is great the impact was quick.Unfortunately VLC and/or ketosis does promote depletion of mag, which I dont really understand but is common.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 05:23 PM

U haven't been Paleoing for long, so I'd watch, not worry over, your lipids and inflammation markers for now. Focus on something that's been long-standing. Your hypertension is mild/moderate, not significantly elevated, but it seems to be long-standing, possibly resulting in your low kidney functions for your age. Give more time for Paleo; address your kidneys/BP and understand your genetic risk of CVD which may have a BP link.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 05:19 PM

And Dr. B has no solution for Big C, nor does low-carb gurus like Atkins, Rosedale, et al. There has been no real solution offered for continuing constipation from the VLC camp. Nada. The only relief I found is through 150g safe starches.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 05:17 PM

rificed BG control a bit, I'd do it. Try living w/constipation -- and I know this is at least as common as ApoE4, based on people who post about this. The quality of your life plummets when you have to contend with constipation everyday, trust me.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 05:16 PM

Grace, my A1c is fine, else I wouldn't be doing 150-200g carbs. I'm now at 5.5 and my A1c under ketogenic/VLC (50g) was 5.5-5.9. Lower FBG, perhaps somewwhat higehr PPs but about the same overall A1c. I'm not sure if I have adrenal or hormone issues, but I probably have had leaky gut since I have Sjogren's. I'm doing Robb Wolf's autoimmune diet w/no gluten, eggs, dairy, nuts, and nightshades. What did I gain w/safe starches of 150-200g? Better skin, no more constipation, moisture in my colon walls, esophagus, and mouth. If I can do all this w/o sacrificing BG control, or heck even if I sac-

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 04:54 PM

Everytime you test, sounds unlikely. But it's possible. There's a direct link betw hypertension & kidney function. But your hypertension could also result from, not result in, damaged kidneys. In other words, your kidneys could be the first mover. My guess is your hypertension consists your genetic risk of CVD (which may also include inflammatory markers like ferritin, fibrinogen, IL6). With your recent test, we excluded Lpa and homocysteine. That was very revealing. U also need a urinalysis. I'd go see a nephro for a checkup and he'll probably order an ultrascan and/or a 24H urinalysis.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 19, 2011
at 01:57 PM

Namby you are beyond helpful. Thanks for that. As far as the BP and kidney #'s go, could it just be slight dehydration? I'm not as diligent as I should be about drinking water. I'm going to be sure I am hydrated when I take my BP from here on out and see if that makes a difference. And for the kidney #'s, its possible its the same thing. These #'s are usually from a blood sample taken first thing in the morning after fasting 12+ hrs, and I'm sure before I've had any water.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 11:47 PM

I have a log of my BP readings when I was put on Lisinopril 20mg: 144/90; 140/100; 150/100; 130/90; 140/100; 130/90. U have my systolic but lower diastolic. But that's when I was 60 lbs. overweight. I pay $10/month for the drug.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 11:41 PM

U shoudln't think that all meds are bad; some are good ==> metformin and certain BP medications. I would first buy a cheap BP monitor and test myself 3x daily. Get the feel for your resting BP and pulse. Also, if you're IR or diabetic, u could also use something to protect kidneys

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 11:38 PM

Berger, u realize those are considered high: most docs will put people 140 on BP meds. U don't have any more weight to lose, so I think your hypertension needs to be addressed. U should be on something like Lisinopril 10mg; but your cardy and nephro should assess your circumstances w/regard to your last heart attack. BP meds are not like statins, which come w/a ton of side effects. After I lost 60 lbs. I still take 5mg of Lisinopril even though my BP never exceeds 120/80 to shield my kidneys. There r cheap generics available.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 18, 2011
at 09:51 PM

Cardiologist did tell me once to cut back on salt intake, which I told him its very little. Other than that he's never said anything about hypertension.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 18, 2011
at 09:50 PM

and these are the readings I have from that. 9/28/11 144/88, 11/15/11 147/82, 11/18/2011 136/83.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 18, 2011
at 09:47 PM

Thanks Namby. I appreciate you sticking with me here. I've spent all day, week, month (multiple) trying to get my head around this stuff. No, never seen a nephrologist. Cardiologist is the only doc I've seen in years. I really dont want to go see my family doc as I'm sure I'll just be put on meds and told to eat low fat high carb diet. I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but I do feel like I'm getting close to my wits end. I didn't start the paleo diet until July 2011, and the Bun hasn't really changed since then. I've been taking my BP at the little station at WalMart when I go (cont)

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 08:46 PM

Also u might want to get a full picture of what happened in 2009; you want to ask for all records, not just blood tests, which ur entitled to. It's possible that high fat/low carb/high protein Paleo is burdening your kidneys.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 08:41 PM

Berger, ever seen a nephrologist? Their job is to monitor hypertension and kidneys. Your docs must've told u if you have hypertension: the best way is to get a BP monitor for $29.99, measure everyday both arms 3x. Pick the lowest reading. The 2 most common ways of damaging kidneys are high BP and diabetes. If not, you need to explore more, ultrascan your kidneys. You've had suboptimal kidney functions for a long time; it's time to git to the bottom of it.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 18, 2011
at 01:10 PM

Just FYI, the 2009 #'s are from when I was in the hospital from my heart attack, they could have had me on something.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 18, 2011
at 07:33 AM

Good observations!! ive observed SCr normalize on paleo plus omega3. come on. the hdl for mr.berger was absolute rock bottom... time. time heals. if mr.berger does everything on the same track as now, i suspect BP should normalize in 2-4 wks to 100-110/60s-70s (as in the frasetto study)

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 18, 2011
at 07:29 AM

i appreciat ur feedbqck as ive read and love ur posts at ph. however what i notice is that many have more toxin damage like me and we are younger than some of the older healthier ph folks. im like kronk. if i do high carbs i would gain imperceptible visceral fat... my vap would be sh*t. 100 g is fine, dunno about 200. frasetto did the prospective paleo study on prehypertensives and though fasting insulin became quite good, the auc (area under the curve) for insulin was still relativey high on 200-220 paleo carbs daily. these were metsyn patients. id love to hear about ur biomarkers... hdl?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 18, 2011
at 07:23 AM

i concur NP that VLC and ketosis are not ideal metabolic states for eveyrone esp those woth compromised adrenal or thyroid function. brodq barnes avoided ketosis i his hypothyroid and adrenal patients. so how are ur a1c and postprandial glucose and fasting insulin values???? what exercise do u do and duration?? have u successfully reversed ALL diabetic complications? bernstein is also not necessarily VLC or ketotic in his approaches. my belief is that the carb spectrum should be dictated by glycolutic activity.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:29 AM

My aunt's Bun ~25/Cr 1.3 ==> GFR 50. Your GFR ==> 75-90. Someone healthy at prime should have GFR > 100 when in 30s. My 74Y old uncle has better #s than you.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:22 AM

My 70Y old aunt w/hypertension & HBV has BUN ~15, CR 1.3. She is Stage 3b CKD. Time to check out your kidneys and possible hypertension. A nephro may give you a typical warning about proteins damaging kidneys; in your case, you may have had slightly damaged goods b4 starting Paleo.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:19 AM

Berger, those #s are elevated except for 2009. Even 8/2007 # is high, considering you were 4 years younger. You're legit Stage 2 CKD, based on GFR. Din't your doc say they're out of the range? How's your BP? I would go see a nephro and check for hypertension (also get your A1c done). I would be cautious in eating more protein than your lean body mass. A 35Y old guy shouldn't have BUN > 20 or Cr > 1; I'm 47Y old, used to take 20mg of Lisinopril for hypertension, and T2 diabetic but my BUN never exceeds 15, my Cr is 0.8<.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 05:47 AM

Grace, I are a T2 diabetic and I do about 200g of carbs, no grains, just tubers (yams, sweet potatoes). My FBG is lower now with 200g carbs: I'm always between 90-100. This is the increased sensitivity to safe starch carbs that PHD talks about. The point is: safe starches are different from processed and refined carbs. They elicit an insulin response but they do not screw w/your metabolism, even for diabetics. I can't promise that for every diabetic, but I seem to be responding pretty well to higher carbs than when I as ketogenic, constipated and possibly hypothyroid.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 17, 2011
at 08:12 AM

i dunno... but one can never CHILL out too much! *smile*

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 16, 2011
at 01:29 AM

Aug07 Bun18 Cr1.1 Aug09 B10 C0.9 Mar11 B24 C1.3 Aug11 B21 C1.2 Nov11 B23 C1.1

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 16, 2011
at 01:26 AM

Date Bun Creatine 080207 18 1.1 083109 10 0.9 32111 24 1.3 81911 21 1.2 110411 23 1.1

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 16, 2011
at 12:44 AM

If you are going to do that stuff, a good quality lard would probably be the safest bet. I pretty much only eat flesh, tubers and fruit. No veggies as such.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 16, 2011
at 12:36 AM

so do you think I'm cool to chill or do I still need to look into thyroid and ana? what about the serious increase in tgs and ldl, just liver defatting or apoe? I'm kinda in a limbo state here, not sure if I should eat fats or not. Tonight was grilled salmon and broccoli. yummy!

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 16, 2011
at 12:34 AM

what about veggies, do you stir fry?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 11:13 PM

Strong abdominals and the labs will follow....!!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 11:13 PM

Ur a newbie and it does take time for the VAP to stabilize. younare gaining lean mass and that is the best sign. You do not appear to me to be a 'hard gainer' so again the track ur on seems totally awesome. Thyroid takes time to normalize as well after withdrawal of wheat, allergens, and exercise. Getting deficiencies replete will normalize thyroid and adrenals as well -- like nutrient dense organs, omega 3, mag, zinc, iodine, vitamins ADEK2' etc. Colds and sniffles elevate hscrp, so for repeats make sure u arent coming down with hay fever, sinusitis, post WOD or sick.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 15, 2011
at 09:03 PM

I've mostly moved away from frying and tend to lightly grill my meat these days.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Travis, if I may ask one more question. What should I be cooking in if not MCTs (olive and coconut oil). Or should I be baking more and frying less?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Travis, if I may ask one more question. What should I be cooking in if not MCTs (olice and coconut oil). Or should I be baking more and frying less?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:15 PM

Gotcha man. Thanks.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 15, 2011
at 05:20 PM

I've never come across a substantiated leaky gut-triglyceride connection anywhere, but if it somehow is the case, the obvious thing to do would be to avoid wheat, NSAIDs, probably lectin-bearing foods like beans etc. Since you're already doing that, you're fine. In general, as far as TGs go, you want to leave your liver alone as much as possible. This means no alcohol, fructose or MCTs.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 15, 2011
at 05:18 PM

Let's say your "healthy" TG production is X. Let's assume that production is higher than usual because of liver fat purging X+Y. Those TGs are just energy in your blood stream that needs to be oxidized. There's an amount of walking that will cancel out Y and bring your TGs down to the safe level X. You just need to do that amount of walking until your liver runs out of fat (and keep doing it after that for health). I see no reason why anything else you're doing is causing elevated VLDL synthesis.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 02:20 PM

I dont think they were, but I will check this when I get home. I dont have that info with me.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:29 PM

*blush* thanks for the kind words. No intestinal abnormalities whatsoever any time of the day. I really dont think I have leaky gut but if my labs and my idoctors say otherwise, then I'll treat for leaky gut.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:26 PM

No bloating, no intestinal discomfort, no diarrhea, no constipation, no acid reflux, nothing.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:23 PM

I was told by both LabCorp hsCRP is the same thing as cardio crp. Dunno, probably doesn't really matter. And I had a small cold the week I had my blood drawn.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:22 PM

I was told by both LabCorp hsCRP is the same thing as cardio crp. Dunno, probably doesn't really matter.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:55 AM

just untilthe gut lining is healed, sealed and the body is no longer generating autoantibodies and silent inflammation is squashed out.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:54 AM

is ur f*ckin fine 6 pack abs flat in the am but mildly distended, bloated at the end of the day in comparison?? if yes, this may indicate intestinal permeability which improves with paleo in 1-3 months unless underlying factors are not addressed (severe gut dysbiosis, food allergies like dairy, heavy metals or other toxins, unidentified parasited causing subclinical disease, etc). does that help? dont fret. ur on them right path. when u read robb's aitoimmune protocol he will suggest cutting out dairy temporarily. this would be considered prudent to think about imho. it is not forever.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:50 AM

ok, do you notice any bloating after food or beverages? is ur f

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:49 AM

omg ur hotter than i thought you'd be!!!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:49 AM

I personally dont like hscrp that much. if one sneezes then it goes up to 1.4 for some folks...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:48 AM

CRP is not as sensitive as 'higly sensitive CRP' eg hsCRP. BTW leaky gut is identical to intestinal permeability; they are interchangeable in Robb Wolf's book and most references. Pubmed terms are usually however 'intestinal permeability' phrased.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:38 AM

berger: As I stated before, I think your elevated triglycerides are probably the result of your liver purging a lifetime's worth of fat accumulation. This should take a while. Once that fat runs out, it's not going to package new fat as triglycerides unless you become obese or you you add a lot of fructose, MCTs or alcohol to a high fat diet. The suggestion to add more MCTs makes no sense at all for someone trying to reduce triglycerides. "Leaky gut" is a catch-all term used most by voodoo naturopaths. Intestinal permeability is a real thing...caused by wheat.

5a506bcfafe352e8fe11ebac285aa3e4

on November 15, 2011
at 01:33 AM

What if coconut oil causes nausea? How do you heal a leaky gut without coconut oil?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 15, 2011
at 12:53 AM

Berger, did you btw look at your past records and see if your BUN and creatine were elevated? That could have a bearing, too, combined with your low homocysteine. I'd think ensuring that your kidneys are healthy is the first order of bidness, rather than CRP.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 15, 2011
at 12:05 AM

I'm not saying you have to be nightshade or egg-free. Or even dairy- or gluten-free. My CRP was <0.3 even when I was eating low-carb lavash and bread. Just examine the autoimmune and hypothyroid angle, like mentioned above. Follow up with an ANA and a hypothyroid panel, including antibody tests for Hashimoto's and Grave's.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 15, 2011
at 12:03 AM

For an average person eating SAD, that's a good number. For someone doing Paleo, that has to be lower. Under 0.5 is representative for your diet and exercise. Member when Gary Taubes tested and his was like .75. People were saying, that's elevated for somone doing low carb. Well, Gary isn't gluten or dairy free (like I'm) -- perhaps it's low-grade inflammation that wheat promotes ... a la Track Your Plaque. Mine is <0.3 everytime I test. And I have an autoimmune disease and T2 diabetes. I eat 150g carbs but I'm gluten/dairy/nightshade/ and egg-free.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 14, 2011
at 07:22 PM

Please, please, please elaborate. I've misunderstood and fucked up enough already. I really just want someone to tell me what to eat. I'm growing really impatient with trying to decode what everyone says, let alone make sense of it all. All I know for sure right now is that I've basically done nothing right.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 14, 2011
at 07:22 PM

Please, please, please elaborate. I've misunderstood and fucked enough already. I really just want someone to tell me what to eat. I'm growing really impatient with trying to decode what everyone says, let alone make sense of it all. All I know for sure right now is that I've basically done nothing right.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 14, 2011
at 07:10 PM

Going off wheat cures most cases of intestinal permeability. Feel free to try this out and report back though.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 14, 2011
at 06:35 PM

Did I misunderstand quilt? Or do you disagree with leaky gut?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 14, 2011
at 06:23 PM

I'd be extremely surprised if coconut oil makes your TGs drop...I guess we'll find out though.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 13, 2011
at 03:11 PM

I'm confused. It looks like cardio crp is the same thing as hsCRP? So my hsCRP has gone from 1.2 in Aug to 0.93. This sounds good, no?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:48 PM

Grace, I'm not that thin, am I? http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6338238778/in/photostream/

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:32 PM

All cooking done in coconut oil. Maybe a spoonful before bed?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:31 PM

Just so I dont fuck this up here is the meal plan I've come up with to implement Dr Quilts recommendation. Breakfast - full fat greek yogurt, spoonful coconut oil, handful of berries and flax seed. Lunch - salad with avocado, olive oil. Dinner - Salmon/Tuna/Shrimp with veggies. Does that fit the rx? Anything I'm missing?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:32 PM

I've been taking 4000iu vit D for about 6 weeks.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:28 PM

Thanks quilt. That post is money.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:50 PM

Is the cardiac CRP (0.93) on my VAP test relevant at all here. How does that compare to hsCRP?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:35 PM

can someone help me out with LCSF? And any recommendations for breakfast food? Are eggs still good?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:41 AM

*curtsy dip* Why thank you Monsieur Quilt! I've been lucky to learn from all the MASTERS that I meet or read...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:27 AM

*haa ah!* Coz you have adrenals made of KEVLAR.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:36 AM

I got some good muscle and in winter I am Mr Ketone. LOL.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:33 AM

berger I will say a HS CRP of 1.2 is awfully high too me. With your history its really high. My own HS CRP is .002 I began at 3.97 If you ask me it is the key to optimal health. Become a master of lowering inflammation by any means possible. You will thank me if it becomes your lifes passion because you will add time to your sandglass.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:31 AM

Grace your making great clinical points that are lost on people who swim in research pools too often. Plus one!

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:30 AM

Grace is spot on APoE4 It allowed us to evolve from the equator and go north with lower Vitamin D levels. As we did so we ate a higher protein and fat diet and very low carb levels......see the Inuit. But when you venture away from the biologic directive and eat a mismatched diet you get fucked in a big way. this was precisely the point I made to Davis on his blog and he seemed clueless why ApoE4 was a competitive evolutionary advantage to northern and southern migration in human history. Its only a disease when you eat a mismatch diet. Today everyone with this genetic lineage does

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:25 AM

I would not even allow my ex wife on a statin and I dont like her. No human should take them in my view.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:23 AM

berger you need to defat the liver, eat MCT limit LCSF and eat a good amount of protein and watch the carbs and monitor the particle size but the single most important factor is makign sure your inflammation levels are low. This guarrantee's a plasma low in oxidation potential. You also must have High D3, K2, and your sex steroids and pregnenolone, DHEA must be top quartile of ranges.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:49 AM

are you avoiding ketosis? too much ketosis, fasting, or skipping meals stress out the adrenal glands which will pump out more cortisol and cause more insulinresistance. basically u don't want excessive cortisol which as Robb says 'cockblocks' muscle gain and fat loss (not that u need to worry about BF!!).

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:45 AM

I love Robb. he is easier to read than PB! both Sisson and Robb kill me with their humour!! Robb's book also has pictures ;)

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:43 AM

you do not exhibit skynhigh LDLs like Kronk or Culp. You may have one allelle because u have a family history somewhat rampant for heart disease and the LDL is not < 100. when u r healthier and off the statin, the LDL will be higher but still it probably will not go as high as Kronk's.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:40 AM

travis, cortisol causes leakyngut. so do antibiotics which kill off good protective flora. lectins like in many grains, beans, and gmo food crops cause leaky gut. there is ~20% lab error possible. the labs berger6696 reports are meaningless for several reasons.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:35 AM

...detectable benefits. CW does not know this but K2, D3 and a punch of sat fat and omega3 fish oil will save 1000 TIMES more lives than statins. the drug companies are not stupid. they try to discredit the value of fish oil or vit D by using synthetic or inferiormdosages or sources (like contaminated pcb- pesticide-laden fish oil). 400 iu vit D!!?? that is a neonatal dose! even 1 yr old children are advised 1000 iu daily of vitamin d!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:31 AM

pravastatin is one the least toxic statin vut that is like saying it is one of the least toxic type of asbestos out there. if youreallywant to read more about statins, read Dr.Briffa just google him and statin. i almost worked for BMS who made brand name Pravachol. the only rare times i heard of pts dying from a fatal drug reaction was from simvastatin 80 mg during my career. the statins PREVENT they appropriate formation of large buoyant LDL. Yes they lower LDL but they lower both the fluffy good stuff as well as a laughabe minor amount of sdLDL. the high risks do not outweigh the absence

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:03 AM

Baby aspirin. And 20mg pravistatin.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:55 PM

Consider it done. I'm almost finished with PB then I'll hit up paleo soln. Hopefully it has an audio version. I'm a slow reader. I am going to catch up on leaky gut. I'm chillin. And no doubt I've hit a gold mine here with an unbelievable amount of info that can be very overwhelming. I know I came off a little snappy at dex but I really didn't mean anything by it. ALL advice given here is more appreciated than I can express. Do you still think E4 is in play or am I strictly dealing with leaky gut here? I'm kinda confused on how I should proceed with my diet.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Losing fat should decrease TGs, not increase them. Fat is released from adipocytes in the form of FFAs attached to albumin, whereas TGs are from the liver and are attached to VLDL. Intestinal permeability is most often the result of gluten exposure and/or pain killer abuse. I don't see why it would affect VLDL synthesis. The defatting of the liver makes perfect sense. If you are purging a lifetime's worth of accumulation, it may take a while.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:38 PM

his own persoanl experience shows that LC increased lbLDL (and lowered sdLDL). it is not a good n=1 to report because he did not separate the sat fat factor out of the equation. He did have hugher sat fat, THAT IS REFERRED TO AS BURNING ONE'S BUTT FAT. The guy likeDavis and CW conveniently ignore the studies showing sat fat lowering sdLDL when combined with lower carbish diets, esp the Dreon Krauss one.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:19 PM

omron makes some good and some bad devices. this one looks ok but the range it can measure is 5-50% BF and like any lab or device the error range is probably ~20% and worse at the extremes of the ranges. u are so THIN omg. The current BF u reported is at the extreme so the device may not be that reliable.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:15 PM

20 ++ Namby but minus 10 for glucose toxicity rx.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:14 PM

I concur with Namby and Dex and Quilt!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:00 PM

You take NSAIDS daily? Only baby aspirin or additionally something else??? NSAIDs are the worse offenders for the gut...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:59 PM

Namby. do u read Peter at Hyperlipid??

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:58 PM

SAFE/SAGE... not.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:57 PM

OMG namby 200 grams of sage carbs would make me diabetic! Nuts!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:56 PM

I met Dr Goldstrich at Davis site and he has never reversed his calcium coronary score. I think he is full of baloney personally. he takes and promotes a lot of palm oil and mixed tocopherols which studies show are disease protective, hoever. I do agree that vit Es are overlook; they provide the antioxidant power for regeneration in LDL particles and HDL particles. I noted that Dr Eades had no cooments to that guy's attempt at spamming the proteinpower blog.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:52 PM

Quilt, the honor is mine!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:51 PM

Peter was absolutely correct; every study I've reviewed confirms it. I am a big fan of highest quality molecularly distilled omega-3 fish oil. It is one of the few things on earth in clinical studies that reverses plaque, decreases sdLDL and reduces PGE 2 series related inflammation tha causes cancer and many other inflammatory diseases. It also treats at a high enough dose brain and mental disorders.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:47 PM

Masterjohn gave the 'AHS talk'.... sorry about the typo!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:47 PM

Petwr was the first to give me an aha moment -- excessive carbs decrease the good lbLDL. Excessive carbs also raise TG, sdLDL and lower HDL.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:44 PM

So sat fats typically also raise HDL and this is excellent as an indicator of health. C. Masterjohn (THE MASTER) pointed this out in his HDL talk that HDL has a vital role in clearing out microbial endotoxins. HDLs are in fact critical for longevity in every lipid study that I've seen. We need a decent bunch of Goodnhappy HDLs for immunity, preventing cancer, cardiac disease, and to fight patogens and parasites which early hominids and primates were riddled with.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:39 PM

Yes, Have u read Peter at Hyperlipid, the Master??! Sat fats raise large buoyant LDL and large buoyant HDL. On a CW lipid panel, this will make often the LDL and HDL appera to go up. This freaks CW docs out to see LDL go up (and maybe Mr.Culp?). If inflammation is controlled, this is of insignificance. LDL also goes up with with low thyroid/adrenal function, which are inflammatory states.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:35 PM

Kronk, BTW Congrats with ur paleo BABBY on the way!!!!! I am so excited for u and ur wife!!

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:04 PM

Just read the leaky gut article linked above. From the part "LEAKY GUT ASSOCIATIONS:" A:a little dairy, B: no, C: a 16oz coffee each morning D:very little alcohol and no antibiotics, E:Daily NSAID, F: no mercury or toxins that I know of, G:no altered consciousness, H:no known food allergies or poisons. Other than my low HDL, what makes this a likely cause?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:55 PM

Just checked it, shows 6.8%. I'm going to say this is not liver defatting anymore. So I guess that leaves E4 and leaky gut.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:22 PM

Grace - that is very interesting. This means that even the "safe starches" like you say in your comment really could be what is raising my sdLDL.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:08 PM

Will that tell me something different than the heart cath did? Two days after my nstemi I had a heart cath and the cardio said there was no damage and no blockage.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:07 PM

"The type of fat also matters.....i forgot to mention this but I have mentioned it to Mr Kronk." What type of fats are good/bad?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:06 PM

It sounds like you think ApoE4? But you also think leaky gut. Are you ruling out the liver defatting at this point?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:03 PM

Quilt - I'm sorry, I must have missed what you told me on Dr Davis blog. Do you recall which post?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 11, 2011
at 05:12 PM

The type of fat also matters.....i forgot to mention this but I have mentioned it to Mr Kronk.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 11, 2011
at 05:11 PM

The calcium index score is a test that tells you how much damage has already accumulated in the coronaries. This quantifies it and then you can make changes and adjust. You can also do a CIMT of the carotids to see how they look. There are a few ways to treat this.....Dr Davis has his way and others have their's. Its paramount that the person feel comfortable with the doc and understand the issues that surround the biochemistry and the diet.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 11, 2011
at 04:49 PM

Grace I am glad we are working together because you get it.......leaky gut specifically, bad endotoxic clearance at the protal circulation is the key to this bio hack.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 11, 2011
at 04:46 PM

An ApoE4 patient must eat fat but keep inflammation extremely low. That is the key. I have told you that here and on Davis blog. I just dont think you like the implications of what I told you but it is important to understand. The elevated TG levels tell you their is a gut problem.....liver is not clearing endotoxins so plasma is more oxidized and not reduced and this is what causes the sdLDL to oxidize. It walks with low testosterone estrogen and vitamin D pregnenolone and progesterone and DHEA. You can draw all your labs but it requires a doc who understands how to interpret it for Tx.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:39 PM

I have one of these. http://tecsenhomecare.com/?taxonomy=post_tag&term=fat-analyzer-scale Crap I know. If memory serves I believe it said 6% or 7% about a month ago.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:37 PM

There is no PILL for apo E4. It's a genetic legacy and just another trait for surviving under different (non-modern) times. Studies confirm it is a risk factor in modern times concerning dental amalgams, aluminum, high carb/GI diets, and lack of exercise.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:34 PM

It is not super accurate but it can approx the lean mass gains if u can not fathom the improvements. I dont't VAPs because they do not tell much unless things are way WAY off. Hormone panels and DNA stool analyses are far more accurate bioindicators for modern Wastern Civ diseases in my personal experience. I've seen hundred of VAPs with Dr Davis and he fails to clue into gut issues and hormone optimization (dhea, progesterone, estrogen dominance, cortiosol, adrenal hypothalamus, etc) and root causes. There is no pharmaceutical for leaky gut or the hormones in 98% of cases FYI.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:28 PM

I think if u rbhaving body fat recompositiong, then, the labs are unreliable during the transition until stabilized. Thanks for the update. Kronk I believe is a different story in that he reported no BF changes and contrasting with ur diet, a signif higher carb diet 150 grams daily for an apparently stable period of time. the important characteristic I believe however that both of u two share is that both you two have signif inflammatory conditions in ur respective family trees which extrapolates the risks IMHO (Jack, cancer and silent heart disease). Do u have a Tanita scale for body fat?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:19 PM

Robb is mod to high sat fat. My honey calc was wrong. Sorry!

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:44 PM

Jack - re the hsCRP. I didn't start eating paleo until mid July so that test was only a month in.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:06 PM

I think a Tsp of honey is 5g carbs, tbsp is 15g. I eat about 1/4-1/2 cup of berries so maybe another 5ish. Wait, are you talking about calories or carbs?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:02 PM

"However ignore the saturated fat and LDL goals. I talked to Robb and gave him sh*t, and this is entirely inconsistent with him, his talks, his blog, his philosophy" What do you mean by this?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:01 PM

Thanks grace. I've been on his Robb Wolfs website, but haven't read his book yet. As far as gaining mass, I thought about this quite a bit last night. I have lost weight in the last 6 months. I've gone from a size 30 or 31 waist to 28's fitting loose. My wedding ring nearly falls off my finger. I've lost about 10 lbs over this time. One possibility I'm beginning to consider is that maybe I've lost significant fat (15-20 lbs?) and have put on 5-10 lbs of muscle. Not sure how to verify this. But this would go with Dr Davis suggesting lipids do not stabilize until weight does.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:34 AM

Namby do you think LDL makes a difference? For E4, the quality and atherogenicity is what makes the biggest difference. What do you think of this article by Krauss Dreon et al? 'Plenty of safe starches' essential will raise sdLDL. I disagree with you. IMHO this is not good for Mr. Berger6696 particularly if he carries E4 alleles, the most HG genes out there. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7749804

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:27 AM

1 Tbs honey is 3 x 1 tsp = 3 x 15 grams = 45 grams. Berries 1 cup is 15 grams. FYI! Whipping cream has WAY more calories than 1/2-1/2. Calories when insulin resistance is present in most folks (not everyone) can make a difference. Also unless it is raw, industrial mass-produced whipping cream and half-half are problematic due to being ultra-/pasteurized, homogenized with chemicals and lacking probiotics... Most people w/leaky gut will have undisputable intolerance to dairy as it is one of the most immunogenic proteins (egg whites as well, until intestinal permeability is resolved).

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:24 AM

Thanks for confirming. You mentioned not gaining lean mass, correct? This is highly suggestive of leaky gut -- nutrients are not being effectively broken down for assimilation, absorption and growth. Read Robb Wolf. Have you read the Paleolithic Solution yet? However ignore the saturated fat and LDL goals. I talked to Robb and gave him sh*t, and this is entirely inconsistent with him, his talks, his blog, his philosophy.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 11, 2011
at 04:38 AM

I'd keep a watch on your WBC and CRP~1. Lowish / low-normal WBC ~5.5 is typical for autoimmune conditions and hypothyroidism. See if it stays lowish.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 02:24 AM

Only other WBC I have is from 3/19/2011 - WBC was 8.74.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:11 AM

I now see that WBC is low, Haev you always had 5ish WBC? Do examine the ANA and hypothyroid angle, like Grace says below.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:06 AM

3 more things to consider for Berger: give this some more time -- it's possible that as your liv enzymes go down, your Tg will go down, esp. if you had fatty liver; do examine the ANA angle -- CRP is elevated for someone eating like u & there could be some cryptoautoimmune disease we haven't uncovered yet; even if ur E4, it's a bit unusual for your bodytype ...

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:34 PM

berger: 1.2 is a bit elevated. A lot of this talk about switching to high fat diet and seeing LDL and even sdLDL go up really resonates with me too. Don't worry about Dex offending you. He gave me the same crap a while back and I told him and the good Doc that it's insulting and annoying as hell. Apparently he hasn't gotten the message. Probably 2 important things for us to check into are ApoE4 and calcium CT scan (as moentioned throughout this thread). It is my understanding the neither will be the end all be all, but at least it will give some additional insight into the mystery of it all.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:23 PM

Yah. ApoE4 is like a "riddle me this" diagnosis at the moment. Why doesn't anyone understand what to tell an ApoE4 person?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:54 PM

Thanks Eric. I dont drink much (if any) milk and the cream I put in my coffee does not spike my BG. I confirmed this with a BG meter a few times.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 06:02 PM

I had hsCRP tested in August. It was 1.2

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:54 PM

Sorry for the insult. I always look at food as being the medicine for the body and when the body is expressing a less than optimal condition, I think poor medicine (nutrients) either now or in the past. It took a lot of years to get to your condition and I don't think a 6 mo to a year into paleo with huge amount of CAD is going to reverse the trend of deterioration immediately. A coronary calcium score would give you a baseline from which to work from. No dietary change is going to help if you have systemic infection. A Highly sensitive CRP would reveal that condition.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:46 PM

But I confess, I do not know what he means when he says limit fat and carbs. Not good if you also have kidney issues. My best interpretation is: go easy on SaFA and no processed carbs (for all diets); do about 200g of safe starch carbs.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:21 PM

Here's some research showing that the same diet doesn't work for ApoE4s: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19761888 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20643407

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:14 PM

Dextery. I'm a little offended by your above comment. I have done a complete 180 on my diet. No grain, VLC, lots of meat fish eggs and veggies for the past 6 months or so. Before that I was eating the typical SAD diet. I'm not sure why you would say I'm resistant to diet change. Regarding the CT scan, I will definitely consider it. My only reservation is that following my NSTEMI I did have a heart cath done and the cardiologist said there was "no damage and no blockage".

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:12 PM

For 75%, doing high fat vastly or somewhat improve their lipids. For 25%, it worsens and in some, it's disastrous. You're not disastrous; just worse than when you were doing SAD (high carb & low fat?). The solution is something in the middle: lean meats and fish, do plenty of safe starches, go easy on dairy/eggs. Essentially, you have to do a hedge.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:03 PM

HDL would increase becuz of Paleo lifestyle but they both result in high TC, which would trigger alarm bells from Mr. Conventional Medicine. Look around and see how many people post about this. This is not an isolated phenomenon: it's a 25% phenomenon.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:02 PM

It's a problem and you see this more and more with people who Paleo. That is, 25% of people who do Paleo or Low-Carb end up with high TC, primarily due to increased LDL. In your case, it's both LDL and Trigs. You can easily understand this if you recongize this as an allele phenomemon. 65% have ApoE3, which is normal; 10% have ApoE2. 25% ApoE4. If you're E4, Sat Fat could up your LDL, and HDL.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 02:53 PM

Kidneys would be higher up than lower back. If you consistently had high numbers as before, I would go see a nephro. It seems like an ApoE issue. ApoE4 (or could also ApoE2 given prior attack). You're certainly no ApoE3. The problem is there's controversy as to which course to take even if ur found to be ApoE4.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 10, 2011
at 02:46 PM

Why don't you get a cornary calcium CT scan done for $200 at the Ross Instutute at OSU? http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/heart/conditions/Pages/Tests/CoronaryCTCalciumScan.aspx You seem resistant to dietary change to improve your condition so maybe a CT scan will tell you where you are at. Then you can follow Dr Davis and his dietary recs. And then get another CT scan in a year and see if your score decreases.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 01:19 PM

I'm really thinking AopE4. Comparing my 9/30 lab to this one done on 11/4 my ldl and trigs are up 60%. Only changes were eating more (trying to gain a little weight) which means eating more fat, switched from half and half to whipping cream in my coffee, and easing down a little on exercise intensity (per the recommendation in the other thread).

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 01:13 PM

Regarding symptoms - I dont know. Minor lower back pain when I first wake in the morning. Like with my first few deep breaths. Dark(er) urine throughout the morning.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 01:03 PM

Yes 12+ hour fast.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:05 AM

Milk will spike insulin as if you ate sugar. LDL bathed in insulin become vLDL. Not good. Coconut should raise HDL.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:38 AM

Also, I would go easy on B12, as your homocysteine is coming down too low. U wanna be between 6-10.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:35 AM

Your kidneys and elevated trigs (for a Paleo guy) are probably separate issues. Your trigs seem to be related to ApoE, high IDL, B100, etc. Thankfully, you have no Lpa issue. Your CRP is also quite high for Paleo.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:32 AM

What symptoms ru experiencing? Review your prior tests and see if BUN and creatinine were elevated. They're both high now - for a 35Y old guy, your GFR is only 80, qualifying you for CKD Level 2. If they were lower before, I wouldn't worry.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 01:17 AM

Six weeks ago my TGs were 120. I'm not sure what my gmother could have done to make them go up to 190 over that time.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 11:55 PM

You also have the genes of your grandmother...what she ate and how she lived her life....which were passed onto your mother. If your gmother was exposed to pesticides prior to or during gestation of your mother..those environmental toxins can be passed generational. My father said he and his sister and his parents sprayed their apple orchards with arsenic of lead to keep the pests down. They never thought about problems...no spray suits or respirators. His sister died of unknown causes...it just happens. So those genes can be cut short. Perhaps look to your genetic past.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 11:30 PM

Hi Dextery. I agree my diet over my first 34 years was not optimal. But I have a hard time believing I ate worse than the 99% of the population that does not have a NSTEMI at 34. I have never been over 160 lbs. I have almost always exercised. My inflammatory markers were good on the VAP test. And no, I have not yet gone down the infectious disease path yet, but it is now looking very likely (due to the lack of explanation of my TGs going up 50% in a month despite eating VLC paleo). I cant make heads or tails of this.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 10:35 PM

Yes, but your leaky gut as indicated by very low HDL may be one of the triggers causing your problems. http://jackkruse.com/?s=leaky+gut I would submit what you have put into your body over your 34 years has turned on the epigenetic switches in your genes to express them as heart disease...which includes bacteria and virus inflammatory problems. It is known that copious use of coconut oil is anti inflammatory and it helps with leaky gut. Did you ever seek out an infectious disease specialist that Paul Jaminet advised?

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 09:35 PM

Yes, but your leaky gut as indicated by very low HDL may be one of the triggers causing your problems. jackkruse.com/?s=leaky+gut I would submit what you have put into your body over your 34 years has turned on the epigenetic switches in your genes to express them as heart disease...which includes bacteria and virus inflammatory problems. It is known that copious use of coconut oil is anti inflammatory and it helps with leaky gut. Did you ever seek out an infectious disease specialist that Paul Jaminet advised?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 08:52 PM

I thought so. I know I'm reaching at this point, but my TGs havent been this high in over a year. A google search of high triglycerides turned up this http://www.buzzle.com/articles/high-triglyceride-symptoms.html which mentions kidney disease as a possible cause of high tgs, which with the high BUN level and some possible subtle symptoms makes me consider it. Do you think there's anything to this?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 09, 2011
at 08:23 PM

Yeah, here ya go: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/11/3379.short You'd be a lot worse off if you used table sugar instead of honey.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 09, 2011
at 08:21 PM

Nah, I doubt those would make a difference. I think I've read where the fructose in honey doesn't really cause hypertriglyceridemia due to some properties that honey has that HFCS for example wouldn't have.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 07:30 PM

One other source of the TGs you mentioned above - MCTs. I use whipping cream (just switched to this within the last month) in my coffee. I just read milkfat is a source of MCTs. Again, the amount seems negligible, maybe .5tsp.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 07:18 PM

Ok, so is it likely the Honey and berries are causing this? I consume them daily. Would it be beneficial to use table sugar (or stevia or something) in place of the honey in my coffee and not eat the berries with breakfast? I assumed since it was such a small amount of each and didn't cause a spike in BG, that they would have no effect on my TGs. I also haven't had beer in months only a glass of red wine here and there (also very little over the past few months). I'm not sure what you mean by a pathological storage of fat, but I only weigh 135-140 lbs, the least I've weighed in decades.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 09, 2011
at 06:59 PM

No, TGs come from excess fructose, but also from excess body fat, which puts more free fatty acids in the bloodstream and makes your liver package them as TGs. Anything that has a high liver priority like fructose, ethanol and MCTs will influence TG output. Additionally, if you have a pathological storage of fat and you address the underlying cause, the liver will release that fat as TGs because it no longer views it as necessary. Assuming that's the case here, your TGs would be a lot higher if you were sedentary.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 06:53 PM

This is where I'm confused. Dont tgs come from excess carbs? If I'm not eating excess carbs (as suggested by the BG levels) then how could my trigs have possibly shot up like that? They were 120 (and appeared to be declining) a month ago.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 09, 2011
at 05:01 PM

That BG range is normal, especially for someone eating low-carb. Nothing else really jumps out at me.The apoB100 is high because of the TG issue, so that too will be corrected when you correct the TGs. Honestly, were I you I would just keep eating your current diet, walk as much as possible, especially fasted and re-test in 30-90 days.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:58 PM

Travis, I am beyond confused. I bought a glucose meter a few days before my VAP (as suggested by DR Davis in one of his TYP articles last week) and spent a day measuring my BG every hour. It was 102 when I woke (high, I know, but have no idea why) 126 after breakfast, then averaged 95 until 9:30pm. I dont think those numbers are excessive, esp enough to cause my TGs to be that high. And yes, I worked out fasted and did some extra walking per your recommendation. On the other hand my other markers (CRP, Lp(a), and homeositine) look pretty good, no?

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:45 PM

Yes, but your leaky gut as indicated by very low HDL may be one of the triggers causing your problems. http://jackkruse.com/?s=leaky+gut

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:37 PM

I started eating reducing wheat and carbs in May. In July I started eating VLC (<50g/day) and my trigs are higher now then they were when I was eating cereal, cold meat sandwiches, and pasta. Its not my diet. If anything the Paleo/Primal diet is making things worse.

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10 Answers

2
3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

on November 10, 2011
at 03:40 PM

See my post regarding this frequent phenomemon:

http://paleohacks.com/questions/50789/why-does-ldl-skyrocket-when-doing-paleo-it-could-be-apoe#axzz1d1hMxqRR

Here's what the ApoE4 theorist (Joel Goldstrich from Michael Eades's blog) says about the best way to diet if you're ApoE4:

I believe the low carb, higher fat diet is the best diet for around 75% of the population. However, about 25% of the population carry the Apo E4 allele. These individuals will increase their LDL-C, LDL-P and sdLDL as they increase their fat intake. I am Apo E3/4 and have been eating low carb for the past 5 years and at the same time struggling with LDL issues. I recently began limiting fat (especially saturated fat) as well as carbs and lost approximately 15 pounds over a 10 week period while concomitantly cutting my LDL-P and sdLDL in half with little change in my LDL-C. My LDL particles got bigger and hopefully less atherogenic. My weight has now stabilized. One diet apparently doesn???t fit all.

One size does not fit all. We find this over and over again. That's why there's so much strife among us. High fat Paleo might not work for some people.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:57 PM

OMG namby 200 grams of sage carbs would make me diabetic! Nuts!

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:46 PM

But I confess, I do not know what he means when he says limit fat and carbs. Not good if you also have kidney issues. My best interpretation is: go easy on SaFA and no processed carbs (for all diets); do about 200g of safe starch carbs.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:56 PM

I met Dr Goldstrich at Davis site and he has never reversed his calcium coronary score. I think he is full of baloney personally. he takes and promotes a lot of palm oil and mixed tocopherols which studies show are disease protective, hoever. I do agree that vit Es are overlook; they provide the antioxidant power for regeneration in LDL particles and HDL particles. I noted that Dr Eades had no cooments to that guy's attempt at spamming the proteinpower blog.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:38 PM

his own persoanl experience shows that LC increased lbLDL (and lowered sdLDL). it is not a good n=1 to report because he did not separate the sat fat factor out of the equation. He did have hugher sat fat, THAT IS REFERRED TO AS BURNING ONE'S BUTT FAT. The guy likeDavis and CW conveniently ignore the studies showing sat fat lowering sdLDL when combined with lower carbish diets, esp the Dreon Krauss one.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:58 PM

SAFE/SAGE... not.

2
Medium avatar

on November 09, 2011
at 04:43 PM

I don't quite understand why your TGs are so high when your bodyfat is so low and your diet, as posted in the other thread, doesn't really contain anything that would spike it (I doubt 1 TBSP of honey is going to do it). Combining a high fat diet with fructose, ethanol, or MCTs seems to have the ability to spike TGs, especially if one is sedentary, but you don't match that profile at all, as far as I can tell.

I suppose you could be right about the reversal of fatty liver occurring, which should purge all of that fat into the blood stream as TGs.

VAPs usually take a couple weeks to come back, so I'm guessing that you hadn't been doing too much of the fasted walking before this test. I think it's important to do it, even if it's something of a crutch that simply depletes TGs that are being generated from some underlying problem. Either way you need to keep them around 50 or so, so this would be the best route.

Your diet is so low in carbohydrates that you shouldn't be encountering any fuel selection issues with your muscle mitochondria. As such, they will readily accept and oxidize VLDL-TGs.

The good news is that the reason your HDL is so low is that your TGs are so high. In manufacturing VLDL, the liver soaks up so much cholesterol that it impacts HDL production. When you solve the TG problem (which may simply be a matter of time) you will solve the HDL problem as well. Should shift your LDL particle pattern to "A" as well since the VLDL production is soaking up cholesterol from LDL production as well.

As a side note, the slightly elevated TSH might mean that iodide and selenium supplementation are in order. You could just do small doses like 100mcg of iodide and 100mcg of selenium per day. T4 is in range, so you may have low T3, which would probably be a selenium deficiency.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 09, 2011
at 06:59 PM

No, TGs come from excess fructose, but also from excess body fat, which puts more free fatty acids in the bloodstream and makes your liver package them as TGs. Anything that has a high liver priority like fructose, ethanol and MCTs will influence TG output. Additionally, if you have a pathological storage of fat and you address the underlying cause, the liver will release that fat as TGs because it no longer views it as necessary. Assuming that's the case here, your TGs would be a lot higher if you were sedentary.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 08:52 PM

I thought so. I know I'm reaching at this point, but my TGs havent been this high in over a year. A google search of high triglycerides turned up this http://www.buzzle.com/articles/high-triglyceride-symptoms.html which mentions kidney disease as a possible cause of high tgs, which with the high BUN level and some possible subtle symptoms makes me consider it. Do you think there's anything to this?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 09, 2011
at 08:23 PM

Yeah, here ya go: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/132/11/3379.short You'd be a lot worse off if you used table sugar instead of honey.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:58 PM

Travis, I am beyond confused. I bought a glucose meter a few days before my VAP (as suggested by DR Davis in one of his TYP articles last week) and spent a day measuring my BG every hour. It was 102 when I woke (high, I know, but have no idea why) 126 after breakfast, then averaged 95 until 9:30pm. I dont think those numbers are excessive, esp enough to cause my TGs to be that high. And yes, I worked out fasted and did some extra walking per your recommendation. On the other hand my other markers (CRP, Lp(a), and homeositine) look pretty good, no?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:38 AM

Also, I would go easy on B12, as your homocysteine is coming down too low. U wanna be between 6-10.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 06:53 PM

This is where I'm confused. Dont tgs come from excess carbs? If I'm not eating excess carbs (as suggested by the BG levels) then how could my trigs have possibly shot up like that? They were 120 (and appeared to be declining) a month ago.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 09, 2011
at 05:01 PM

That BG range is normal, especially for someone eating low-carb. Nothing else really jumps out at me.The apoB100 is high because of the TG issue, so that too will be corrected when you correct the TGs. Honestly, were I you I would just keep eating your current diet, walk as much as possible, especially fasted and re-test in 30-90 days.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:35 AM

Your kidneys and elevated trigs (for a Paleo guy) are probably separate issues. Your trigs seem to be related to ApoE, high IDL, B100, etc. Thankfully, you have no Lpa issue. Your CRP is also quite high for Paleo.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 07:30 PM

One other source of the TGs you mentioned above - MCTs. I use whipping cream (just switched to this within the last month) in my coffee. I just read milkfat is a source of MCTs. Again, the amount seems negligible, maybe .5tsp.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 02:53 PM

Kidneys would be higher up than lower back. If you consistently had high numbers as before, I would go see a nephro. It seems like an ApoE issue. ApoE4 (or could also ApoE2 given prior attack). You're certainly no ApoE3. The problem is there's controversy as to which course to take even if ur found to be ApoE4.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 01:13 PM

Regarding symptoms - I dont know. Minor lower back pain when I first wake in the morning. Like with my first few deep breaths. Dark(er) urine throughout the morning.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 07:18 PM

Ok, so is it likely the Honey and berries are causing this? I consume them daily. Would it be beneficial to use table sugar (or stevia or something) in place of the honey in my coffee and not eat the berries with breakfast? I assumed since it was such a small amount of each and didn't cause a spike in BG, that they would have no effect on my TGs. I also haven't had beer in months only a glass of red wine here and there (also very little over the past few months). I'm not sure what you mean by a pathological storage of fat, but I only weigh 135-140 lbs, the least I've weighed in decades.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 01:19 PM

I'm really thinking AopE4. Comparing my 9/30 lab to this one done on 11/4 my ldl and trigs are up 60%. Only changes were eating more (trying to gain a little weight) which means eating more fat, switched from half and half to whipping cream in my coffee, and easing down a little on exercise intensity (per the recommendation in the other thread).

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 09, 2011
at 08:21 PM

Nah, I doubt those would make a difference. I think I've read where the fructose in honey doesn't really cause hypertriglyceridemia due to some properties that honey has that HFCS for example wouldn't have.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:03 PM

Quilt - I'm sorry, I must have missed what you told me on Dr Davis blog. Do you recall which post?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:32 AM

What symptoms ru experiencing? Review your prior tests and see if BUN and creatinine were elevated. They're both high now - for a 35Y old guy, your GFR is only 80, qualifying you for CKD Level 2. If they were lower before, I wouldn't worry.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:06 PM

It sounds like you think ApoE4? But you also think leaky gut. Are you ruling out the liver defatting at this point?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:23 PM

Yah. ApoE4 is like a "riddle me this" diagnosis at the moment. Why doesn't anyone understand what to tell an ApoE4 person?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 11, 2011
at 05:12 PM

The type of fat also matters.....i forgot to mention this but I have mentioned it to Mr Kronk.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 11, 2011
at 04:46 PM

An ApoE4 patient must eat fat but keep inflammation extremely low. That is the key. I have told you that here and on Davis blog. I just dont think you like the implications of what I told you but it is important to understand. The elevated TG levels tell you their is a gut problem.....liver is not clearing endotoxins so plasma is more oxidized and not reduced and this is what causes the sdLDL to oxidize. It walks with low testosterone estrogen and vitamin D pregnenolone and progesterone and DHEA. You can draw all your labs but it requires a doc who understands how to interpret it for Tx.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:23 AM

berger you need to defat the liver, eat MCT limit LCSF and eat a good amount of protein and watch the carbs and monitor the particle size but the single most important factor is makign sure your inflammation levels are low. This guarrantee's a plasma low in oxidation potential. You also must have High D3, K2, and your sex steroids and pregnenolone, DHEA must be top quartile of ranges.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Here is the meal plan I've come up with to implement Dr Quilts recommendation. Breakfast - full fat greek yogurt, spoonful coconut oil, handful of berries and flax seed. Lunch - salad with avocado, olive oil. Dinner - Salmon/Tuna/Shrimp with veggies. Does that fit the rx? Anything I'm missing? – berger6696 0 secs ago

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:07 PM

"The type of fat also matters.....i forgot to mention this but I have mentioned it to Mr Kronk." What type of fats are good/bad?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:32 PM

All cooking done in coconut oil. Maybe a spoonful before bed?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:28 PM

Thanks quilt. That post is money.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 01:35 PM

can someone help me out with LCSF? And any recommendations for breakfast food? Are eggs still good?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:31 PM

Just so I dont fuck this up here is the meal plan I've come up with to implement Dr Quilts recommendation. Breakfast - full fat greek yogurt, spoonful coconut oil, handful of berries and flax seed. Lunch - salad with avocado, olive oil. Dinner - Salmon/Tuna/Shrimp with veggies. Does that fit the rx? Anything I'm missing?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:38 AM

berger: As I stated before, I think your elevated triglycerides are probably the result of your liver purging a lifetime's worth of fat accumulation. This should take a while. Once that fat runs out, it's not going to package new fat as triglycerides unless you become obese or you you add a lot of fructose, MCTs or alcohol to a high fat diet. The suggestion to add more MCTs makes no sense at all for someone trying to reduce triglycerides. "Leaky gut" is a catch-all term used most by voodoo naturopaths. Intestinal permeability is a real thing...caused by wheat.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 14, 2011
at 06:23 PM

I'd be extremely surprised if coconut oil makes your TGs drop...I guess we'll find out though.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 15, 2011
at 05:20 PM

I've never come across a substantiated leaky gut-triglyceride connection anywhere, but if it somehow is the case, the obvious thing to do would be to avoid wheat, NSAIDs, probably lectin-bearing foods like beans etc. Since you're already doing that, you're fine. In general, as far as TGs go, you want to leave your liver alone as much as possible. This means no alcohol, fructose or MCTs.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 14, 2011
at 06:35 PM

Did I misunderstand quilt? Or do you disagree with leaky gut?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 14, 2011
at 07:10 PM

Going off wheat cures most cases of intestinal permeability. Feel free to try this out and report back though.

5a506bcfafe352e8fe11ebac285aa3e4

on November 15, 2011
at 01:33 AM

What if coconut oil causes nausea? How do you heal a leaky gut without coconut oil?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 14, 2011
at 07:22 PM

Please, please, please elaborate. I've misunderstood and fucked up enough already. I really just want someone to tell me what to eat. I'm growing really impatient with trying to decode what everyone says, let alone make sense of it all. All I know for sure right now is that I've basically done nothing right.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Travis, if I may ask one more question. What should I be cooking in if not MCTs (olice and coconut oil). Or should I be baking more and frying less?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 08:58 PM

Travis, if I may ask one more question. What should I be cooking in if not MCTs (olive and coconut oil). Or should I be baking more and frying less?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 14, 2011
at 07:22 PM

Please, please, please elaborate. I've misunderstood and fucked enough already. I really just want someone to tell me what to eat. I'm growing really impatient with trying to decode what everyone says, let alone make sense of it all. All I know for sure right now is that I've basically done nothing right.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Thanks Travis. Like i said above, I dont feel like I have any intestinal or digestive problems. I dont think I have a leaky gut or intestinal permeability. Do my labs say otherwise? Maybe. I really dont know. It seems like they haven't gotten better, and I just feel like I'm pissing into the wind trying something new every month. What do you make of the drastic increase of TGs over the past 5 weeks? ApoE4?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 15, 2011
at 05:18 PM

Let's say your "healthy" TG production is X. Let's assume that production is higher than usual because of liver fat purging X+Y. Those TGs are just energy in your blood stream that needs to be oxidized. There's an amount of walking that will cancel out Y and bring your TGs down to the safe level X. You just need to do that amount of walking until your liver runs out of fat (and keep doing it after that for health). I see no reason why anything else you're doing is causing elevated VLDL synthesis.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:15 PM

Gotcha man. Thanks.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 15, 2011
at 09:03 PM

I've mostly moved away from frying and tend to lightly grill my meat these days.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 16, 2011
at 12:44 AM

If you are going to do that stuff, a good quality lard would probably be the safest bet. I pretty much only eat flesh, tubers and fruit. No veggies as such.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 16, 2011
at 12:34 AM

what about veggies, do you stir fry?

2
3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:30 PM

Your LDL is predominently small dense LDL pattern B meaning you have the type of LDL that causes heart disease.

Your triglycerides are quite high at 190. Should be at 60 or under. Again this is a marker of heart disease.

And your HDL is quite low. For a man should be above 70...This indicates you have a leaky gut meaning toxins you take into your gut are leaking past the junctions in the lining of the gut and get into your blood vascular system.

Heart disease has nothing to do with high total cholesterol....it is the subfractions that are important.

It is no wonder you have had previous heart events.

What to do.

I would recommend you immediately read and follow Dr Kruse's Leaky Gut Posting as well as follow his Leptin Reset protocol. Especially following a strict ketogenic diet with almost zero carbs. http://www.jackkruse.com Dr Kruse would prescribe for your to purchase either Sisson's Primal Blueprint book, or Robb Wolf's The Paleo Solution.

You can change all of your markers of heart disease. You can get to all large bouyant LDL particles...the good kind and you can reduce your triglycerides and you can raise your HDL, but you must be very strict in your elimination of all wheat products and sugar products and you must fuel your body with copious amounts of coconut oil and moderate protein.

The supplements talked about on the other thread are fine...but all the supplements will not do a thing for you if you do not alter your diet. Supplements are great to assist your diet in your goal to reducing your markers for heart disease.

With the markers you have, you are living on borrowed time.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:45 PM

Yes, but your leaky gut as indicated by very low HDL may be one of the triggers causing your problems. http://jackkruse.com/?s=leaky+gut

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 09:35 PM

Yes, but your leaky gut as indicated by very low HDL may be one of the triggers causing your problems. jackkruse.com/?s=leaky+gut I would submit what you have put into your body over your 34 years has turned on the epigenetic switches in your genes to express them as heart disease...which includes bacteria and virus inflammatory problems. It is known that copious use of coconut oil is anti inflammatory and it helps with leaky gut. Did you ever seek out an infectious disease specialist that Paul Jaminet advised?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:14 PM

Dextery. I'm a little offended by your above comment. I have done a complete 180 on my diet. No grain, VLC, lots of meat fish eggs and veggies for the past 6 months or so. Before that I was eating the typical SAD diet. I'm not sure why you would say I'm resistant to diet change. Regarding the CT scan, I will definitely consider it. My only reservation is that following my NSTEMI I did have a heart cath done and the cardiologist said there was "no damage and no blockage".

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 06:02 PM

I had hsCRP tested in August. It was 1.2

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:37 PM

I started eating reducing wheat and carbs in May. In July I started eating VLC (<50g/day) and my trigs are higher now then they were when I was eating cereal, cold meat sandwiches, and pasta. Its not my diet. If anything the Paleo/Primal diet is making things worse.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 10, 2011
at 02:46 PM

Why don't you get a cornary calcium CT scan done for $200 at the Ross Instutute at OSU? http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/heart/conditions/Pages/Tests/CoronaryCTCalciumScan.aspx You seem resistant to dietary change to improve your condition so maybe a CT scan will tell you where you are at. Then you can follow Dr Davis and his dietary recs. And then get another CT scan in a year and see if your score decreases.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 11:55 PM

You also have the genes of your grandmother...what she ate and how she lived her life....which were passed onto your mother. If your gmother was exposed to pesticides prior to or during gestation of your mother..those environmental toxins can be passed generational. My father said he and his sister and his parents sprayed their apple orchards with arsenic of lead to keep the pests down. They never thought about problems...no spray suits or respirators. His sister died of unknown causes...it just happens. So those genes can be cut short. Perhaps look to your genetic past.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 09, 2011
at 10:35 PM

Yes, but your leaky gut as indicated by very low HDL may be one of the triggers causing your problems. http://jackkruse.com/?s=leaky+gut I would submit what you have put into your body over your 34 years has turned on the epigenetic switches in your genes to express them as heart disease...which includes bacteria and virus inflammatory problems. It is known that copious use of coconut oil is anti inflammatory and it helps with leaky gut. Did you ever seek out an infectious disease specialist that Paul Jaminet advised?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:44 PM

Jack - re the hsCRP. I didn't start eating paleo until mid July so that test was only a month in.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 09, 2011
at 11:30 PM

Hi Dextery. I agree my diet over my first 34 years was not optimal. But I have a hard time believing I ate worse than the 99% of the population that does not have a NSTEMI at 34. I have never been over 160 lbs. I have almost always exercised. My inflammatory markers were good on the VAP test. And no, I have not yet gone down the infectious disease path yet, but it is now looking very likely (due to the lack of explanation of my TGs going up 50% in a month despite eating VLC paleo). I cant make heads or tails of this.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 01:17 AM

Six weeks ago my TGs were 120. I'm not sure what my gmother could have done to make them go up to 190 over that time.

3a567c1637db69f1455ce35e78201a2c

(1054)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:54 PM

Sorry for the insult. I always look at food as being the medicine for the body and when the body is expressing a less than optimal condition, I think poor medicine (nutrients) either now or in the past. It took a lot of years to get to your condition and I don't think a 6 mo to a year into paleo with huge amount of CAD is going to reverse the trend of deterioration immediately. A coronary calcium score would give you a baseline from which to work from. No dietary change is going to help if you have systemic infection. A Highly sensitive CRP would reveal that condition.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:03 AM

Baby aspirin. And 20mg pravistatin.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:11 AM

I now see that WBC is low, Haev you always had 5ish WBC? Do examine the ANA and hypothyroid angle, like Grace says below.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 11, 2011
at 04:38 AM

I'd keep a watch on your WBC and CRP~1. Lowish / low-normal WBC ~5.5 is typical for autoimmune conditions and hypothyroidism. See if it stays lowish.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 02:24 AM

Only other WBC I have is from 3/19/2011 - WBC was 8.74.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:34 PM

berger: 1.2 is a bit elevated. A lot of this talk about switching to high fat diet and seeing LDL and even sdLDL go up really resonates with me too. Don't worry about Dex offending you. He gave me the same crap a while back and I told him and the good Doc that it's insulting and annoying as hell. Apparently he hasn't gotten the message. Probably 2 important things for us to check into are ApoE4 and calcium CT scan (as moentioned throughout this thread). It is my understanding the neither will be the end all be all, but at least it will give some additional insight into the mystery of it all.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 11, 2011
at 05:11 PM

The calcium index score is a test that tells you how much damage has already accumulated in the coronaries. This quantifies it and then you can make changes and adjust. You can also do a CIMT of the carotids to see how they look. There are a few ways to treat this.....Dr Davis has his way and others have their's. Its paramount that the person feel comfortable with the doc and understand the issues that surround the biochemistry and the diet.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:06 AM

3 more things to consider for Berger: give this some more time -- it's possible that as your liv enzymes go down, your Tg will go down, esp. if you had fatty liver; do examine the ANA angle -- CRP is elevated for someone eating like u & there could be some cryptoautoimmune disease we haven't uncovered yet; even if ur E4, it's a bit unusual for your bodytype ...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:00 PM

You take NSAIDS daily? Only baby aspirin or additionally something else??? NSAIDs are the worse offenders for the gut...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:14 PM

I concur with Namby and Dex and Quilt!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:31 AM

pravastatin is one the least toxic statin vut that is like saying it is one of the least toxic type of asbestos out there. if youreallywant to read more about statins, read Dr.Briffa just google him and statin. i almost worked for BMS who made brand name Pravachol. the only rare times i heard of pts dying from a fatal drug reaction was from simvastatin 80 mg during my career. the statins PREVENT they appropriate formation of large buoyant LDL. Yes they lower LDL but they lower both the fluffy good stuff as well as a laughabe minor amount of sdLDL. the high risks do not outweigh the absence

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:32 PM

I've been taking 4000iu vit D for about 6 weeks.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:15 PM

20 ++ Namby but minus 10 for glucose toxicity rx.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:08 PM

Will that tell me something different than the heart cath did? Two days after my nstemi I had a heart cath and the cardio said there was no damage and no blockage.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:35 AM

...detectable benefits. CW does not know this but K2, D3 and a punch of sat fat and omega3 fish oil will save 1000 TIMES more lives than statins. the drug companies are not stupid. they try to discredit the value of fish oil or vit D by using synthetic or inferiormdosages or sources (like contaminated pcb- pesticide-laden fish oil). 400 iu vit D!!?? that is a neonatal dose! even 1 yr old children are advised 1000 iu daily of vitamin d!

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:04 PM

Just read the leaky gut article linked above. From the part "LEAKY GUT ASSOCIATIONS:" A:a little dairy, B: no, C: a 16oz coffee each morning D:very little alcohol and no antibiotics, E:Daily NSAID, F: no mercury or toxins that I know of, G:no altered consciousness, H:no known food allergies or poisons. Other than my low HDL, what makes this a likely cause?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:25 AM

I would not even allow my ex wife on a statin and I dont like her. No human should take them in my view.

1
7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

on November 11, 2011
at 01:40 PM

I dont want this to get buried in a reply (that was cut short) so tell me what you think of this.

I have lost weight in the last 6 months. I've gone from a size 30" pants to 28" pants fitting loose. My wedding ring nearly falls off my finger. I've lost about 10-15 lbs over this time. One possibility I'm beginning to consider is that maybe I've lost significant fat (15-20 lbs?) and have put on 5-10 lbs of muscle. While losing 10lbs is probably not considered "significant" losing 20lbs of fat might be. I would have started eating paleo in the 145-150lb range. I seem to have hit a bottom in the last week or so around 136.

This answer would seem to make sense of all the suggestions below, and maybe explain Kronks situation as well.

Thoughts?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:30 AM

Grace is spot on APoE4 It allowed us to evolve from the equator and go north with lower Vitamin D levels. As we did so we ate a higher protein and fat diet and very low carb levels......see the Inuit. But when you venture away from the biologic directive and eat a mismatched diet you get fucked in a big way. this was precisely the point I made to Davis on his blog and he seemed clueless why ApoE4 was a competitive evolutionary advantage to northern and southern migration in human history. Its only a disease when you eat a mismatch diet. Today everyone with this genetic lineage does

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:28 PM

I think if u rbhaving body fat recompositiong, then, the labs are unreliable during the transition until stabilized. Thanks for the update. Kronk I believe is a different story in that he reported no BF changes and contrasting with ur diet, a signif higher carb diet 150 grams daily for an apparently stable period of time. the important characteristic I believe however that both of u two share is that both you two have signif inflammatory conditions in ur respective family trees which extrapolates the risks IMHO (Jack, cancer and silent heart disease). Do u have a Tanita scale for body fat?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:37 PM

There is no PILL for apo E4. It's a genetic legacy and just another trait for surviving under different (non-modern) times. Studies confirm it is a risk factor in modern times concerning dental amalgams, aluminum, high carb/GI diets, and lack of exercise.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:55 PM

Just checked it, shows 6.8%. I'm going to say this is not liver defatting anymore. So I guess that leaves E4 and leaky gut.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:33 AM

berger I will say a HS CRP of 1.2 is awfully high too me. With your history its really high. My own HS CRP is .002 I began at 3.97 If you ask me it is the key to optimal health. Become a master of lowering inflammation by any means possible. You will thank me if it becomes your lifes passion because you will add time to your sandglass.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:39 PM

I have one of these. http://tecsenhomecare.com/?taxonomy=post_tag&term=fat-analyzer-scale Crap I know. If memory serves I believe it said 6% or 7% about a month ago.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Losing fat should decrease TGs, not increase them. Fat is released from adipocytes in the form of FFAs attached to albumin, whereas TGs are from the liver and are attached to VLDL. Intestinal permeability is most often the result of gluten exposure and/or pain killer abuse. I don't see why it would affect VLDL synthesis. The defatting of the liver makes perfect sense. If you are purging a lifetime's worth of accumulation, it may take a while.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:34 PM

It is not super accurate but it can approx the lean mass gains if u can not fathom the improvements. I dont't VAPs because they do not tell much unless things are way WAY off. Hormone panels and DNA stool analyses are far more accurate bioindicators for modern Wastern Civ diseases in my personal experience. I've seen hundred of VAPs with Dr Davis and he fails to clue into gut issues and hormone optimization (dhea, progesterone, estrogen dominance, cortiosol, adrenal hypothalamus, etc) and root causes. There is no pharmaceutical for leaky gut or the hormones in 98% of cases FYI.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:40 AM

travis, cortisol causes leakyngut. so do antibiotics which kill off good protective flora. lectins like in many grains, beans, and gmo food crops cause leaky gut. there is ~20% lab error possible. the labs berger6696 reports are meaningless for several reasons.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:19 PM

omron makes some good and some bad devices. this one looks ok but the range it can measure is 5-50% BF and like any lab or device the error range is probably ~20% and worse at the extremes of the ranges. u are so THIN omg. The current BF u reported is at the extreme so the device may not be that reliable.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:31 AM

Grace your making great clinical points that are lost on people who swim in research pools too often. Plus one!

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 13, 2011
at 03:11 PM

I'm confused. It looks like cardio crp is the same thing as hsCRP? So my hsCRP has gone from 1.2 in Aug to 0.93. This sounds good, no?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:41 AM

*curtsy dip* Why thank you Monsieur Quilt! I've been lucky to learn from all the MASTERS that I meet or read...

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 02:50 PM

Is the cardiac CRP (0.93) on my VAP test relevant at all here. How does that compare to hsCRP?

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 12, 2011
at 07:48 PM

Grace, I'm not that thin, am I? http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6338238778/in/photostream/

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:54 AM

is ur f*ckin fine 6 pack abs flat in the am but mildly distended, bloated at the end of the day in comparison?? if yes, this may indicate intestinal permeability which improves with paleo in 1-3 months unless underlying factors are not addressed (severe gut dysbiosis, food allergies like dairy, heavy metals or other toxins, unidentified parasited causing subclinical disease, etc). does that help? dont fret. ur on them right path. when u read robb's aitoimmune protocol he will suggest cutting out dairy temporarily. this would be considered prudent to think about imho. it is not forever.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:50 AM

ok, do you notice any bloating after food or beverages? is ur f

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:29 PM

*blush* thanks for the kind words. No intestinal abnormalities whatsoever any time of the day. I really dont think I have leaky gut but if my labs and my idoctors say otherwise, then I'll treat for leaky gut.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 11:13 PM

Strong abdominals and the labs will follow....!!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:48 AM

CRP is not as sensitive as 'higly sensitive CRP' eg hsCRP. BTW leaky gut is identical to intestinal permeability; they are interchangeable in Robb Wolf's book and most references. Pubmed terms are usually however 'intestinal permeability' phrased.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:55 AM

just untilthe gut lining is healed, sealed and the body is no longer generating autoantibodies and silent inflammation is squashed out.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:23 PM

I was told by both LabCorp hsCRP is the same thing as cardio crp. Dunno, probably doesn't really matter. And I had a small cold the week I had my blood drawn.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:26 PM

No bloating, no intestinal discomfort, no diarrhea, no constipation, no acid reflux, nothing.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:49 AM

omg ur hotter than i thought you'd be!!!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 06:49 AM

I personally dont like hscrp that much. if one sneezes then it goes up to 1.4 for some folks...

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 01:22 PM

I was told by both LabCorp hsCRP is the same thing as cardio crp. Dunno, probably doesn't really matter.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 15, 2011
at 11:13 PM

Ur a newbie and it does take time for the VAP to stabilize. younare gaining lean mass and that is the best sign. You do not appear to me to be a 'hard gainer' so again the track ur on seems totally awesome. Thyroid takes time to normalize as well after withdrawal of wheat, allergens, and exercise. Getting deficiencies replete will normalize thyroid and adrenals as well -- like nutrient dense organs, omega 3, mag, zinc, iodine, vitamins ADEK2' etc. Colds and sniffles elevate hscrp, so for repeats make sure u arent coming down with hay fever, sinusitis, post WOD or sick.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 16, 2011
at 12:36 AM

so do you think I'm cool to chill or do I still need to look into thyroid and ana? what about the serious increase in tgs and ldl, just liver defatting or apoe? I'm kinda in a limbo state here, not sure if I should eat fats or not. Tonight was grilled salmon and broccoli. yummy!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 17, 2011
at 08:12 AM

i dunno... but one can never CHILL out too much! *smile*

1
3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:33 AM

Were you fasting for this lab for 12 hrs?

if not, some are irrelevant (LDL, TG HDL).

To me the labs indicate insulin resistance (mildly hypothyroid, mildly elevated liver enzymes, high TG/HDL ratio, pattern B). Extra energy whether fat or carb can increase TGs sometimes.

In addition to the potential viral component, consider an autoimmune panel (ESR, hsCRP, ANA, etc) and a FULL THYROID panel (anti thyroid antibodies, free T3, free T4, etc).

You mentioned stress right? How is your sleep? Energy? Digestion? Your doc probably isn't aware but you may self order a cortisol salivary x4 to determine how the adrenal gland is functioning. Low adrenal function is caused by stressors over time or acute stresses and it's very common in this day and age (esp if you crossfit, do ketosis or do intermittent fasting or are sleep deprived or 'stressed' to any degree). ZRT offers the cortisol x4. Low cortisol can cause low thyroid, insulin resistance and high TG/low HDL patterns. It happens in both skinny and fat folks... no one is immune.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 01:03 PM

Yes 12+ hour fast.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:06 PM

I think a Tsp of honey is 5g carbs, tbsp is 15g. I eat about 1/4-1/2 cup of berries so maybe another 5ish. Wait, are you talking about calories or carbs?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:24 AM

Thanks for confirming. You mentioned not gaining lean mass, correct? This is highly suggestive of leaky gut -- nutrients are not being effectively broken down for assimilation, absorption and growth. Read Robb Wolf. Have you read the Paleolithic Solution yet? However ignore the saturated fat and LDL goals. I talked to Robb and gave him sh*t, and this is entirely inconsistent with him, his talks, his blog, his philosophy.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:27 AM

1 Tbs honey is 3 x 1 tsp = 3 x 15 grams = 45 grams. Berries 1 cup is 15 grams. FYI! Whipping cream has WAY more calories than 1/2-1/2. Calories when insulin resistance is present in most folks (not everyone) can make a difference. Also unless it is raw, industrial mass-produced whipping cream and half-half are problematic due to being ultra-/pasteurized, homogenized with chemicals and lacking probiotics... Most people w/leaky gut will have undisputable intolerance to dairy as it is one of the most immunogenic proteins (egg whites as well, until intestinal permeability is resolved).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 11, 2011
at 04:49 PM

Grace I am glad we are working together because you get it.......leaky gut specifically, bad endotoxic clearance at the protal circulation is the key to this bio hack.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:52 PM

Quilt, the honor is mine!

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:02 PM

"However ignore the saturated fat and LDL goals. I talked to Robb and gave him sh*t, and this is entirely inconsistent with him, his talks, his blog, his philosophy" What do you mean by this?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 03:19 PM

Robb is mod to high sat fat. My honey calc was wrong. Sorry!

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:01 PM

Thanks grace. I've been on his Robb Wolfs website, but haven't read his book yet. As far as gaining mass, I thought about this quite a bit last night. I have lost weight in the last 6 months. I've gone from a size 30 or 31 waist to 28's fitting loose. My wedding ring nearly falls off my finger. I've lost about 10 lbs over this time. One possibility I'm beginning to consider is that maybe I've lost significant fat (15-20 lbs?) and have put on 5-10 lbs of muscle. Not sure how to verify this. But this would go with Dr Davis suggesting lipids do not stabilize until weight does.

1
7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

on November 10, 2011
at 02:21 AM

What about ApoE4? Over the past month or so I have started eating more (and consequently more fat) in an attempt to gain a little weight.

According to Dr Davis "Apo E4???If Frustrated has one or two apo E4 genes, then increased dietary fat will serve to exaggerate measures like small LDL despite the reduction in carbohydrates, LDL particle number, and triglycerides. This is a tough situation, since small LDL particles and high triglycerides signal carbohydrate sensitivity, while apo E4 makes this person, in effect, unable to deal with fats and dietary cholesterol. It gives me the creeps to talk about reducing fat intake, but this becomes necessary along with carbohydrate restriction, else statin drugs will come to the ???rescue.???"

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:21 PM

Here's some research showing that the same diet doesn't work for ApoE4s: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19761888 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20643407

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:02 PM

It's a problem and you see this more and more with people who Paleo. That is, 25% of people who do Paleo or Low-Carb end up with high TC, primarily due to increased LDL. In your case, it's both LDL and Trigs. You can easily understand this if you recongize this as an allele phenomemon. 65% have ApoE3, which is normal; 10% have ApoE2. 25% ApoE4. If you're E4, Sat Fat could up your LDL, and HDL.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:12 PM

For 75%, doing high fat vastly or somewhat improve their lipids. For 25%, it worsens and in some, it's disastrous. You're not disastrous; just worse than when you were doing SAD (high carb & low fat?). The solution is something in the middle: lean meats and fish, do plenty of safe starches, go easy on dairy/eggs. Essentially, you have to do a hedge.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 08:34 AM

Namby do you think LDL makes a difference? For E4, the quality and atherogenicity is what makes the biggest difference. What do you think of this article by Krauss Dreon et al? 'Plenty of safe starches' essential will raise sdLDL. I disagree with you. IMHO this is not good for Mr. Berger6696 particularly if he carries E4 alleles, the most HG genes out there. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7749804

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on November 11, 2011
at 06:22 PM

Grace - that is very interesting. This means that even the "safe starches" like you say in your comment really could be what is raising my sdLDL.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:47 PM

Petwr was the first to give me an aha moment -- excessive carbs decrease the good lbLDL. Excessive carbs also raise TG, sdLDL and lower HDL.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:05 AM

Milk will spike insulin as if you ate sugar. LDL bathed in insulin become vLDL. Not good. Coconut should raise HDL.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:35 PM

Kronk, BTW Congrats with ur paleo BABBY on the way!!!!! I am so excited for u and ur wife!!

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 10, 2011
at 03:03 PM

HDL would increase becuz of Paleo lifestyle but they both result in high TC, which would trigger alarm bells from Mr. Conventional Medicine. Look around and see how many people post about this. This is not an isolated phenomenon: it's a 25% phenomenon.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:51 PM

Peter was absolutely correct; every study I've reviewed confirms it. I am a big fan of highest quality molecularly distilled omega-3 fish oil. It is one of the few things on earth in clinical studies that reverses plaque, decreases sdLDL and reduces PGE 2 series related inflammation tha causes cancer and many other inflammatory diseases. It also treats at a high enough dose brain and mental disorders.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:47 PM

Masterjohn gave the 'AHS talk'.... sorry about the typo!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:39 PM

Yes, Have u read Peter at Hyperlipid, the Master??! Sat fats raise large buoyant LDL and large buoyant HDL. On a CW lipid panel, this will make often the LDL and HDL appera to go up. This freaks CW docs out to see LDL go up (and maybe Mr.Culp?). If inflammation is controlled, this is of insignificance. LDL also goes up with with low thyroid/adrenal function, which are inflammatory states.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:44 PM

So sat fats typically also raise HDL and this is excellent as an indicator of health. C. Masterjohn (THE MASTER) pointed this out in his HDL talk that HDL has a vital role in clearing out microbial endotoxins. HDLs are in fact critical for longevity in every lipid study that I've seen. We need a decent bunch of Goodnhappy HDLs for immunity, preventing cancer, cardiac disease, and to fight patogens and parasites which early hominids and primates were riddled with.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:59 PM

Namby. do u read Peter at Hyperlipid??

1
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:53 PM

You could try a little coconut oil and a little less dairy.

EDIT:

Milk will spike insulin as if you ate sugar. LDL bathed in insulin become vLDL. Not good. Coconut should raise HDL.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:54 PM

Thanks Eric. I dont drink much (if any) milk and the cream I put in my coffee does not spike my BG. I confirmed this with a BG meter a few times.

0
7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

on November 14, 2011
at 06:14 PM

Just wanted to put this up here to those who asked. My cardio CRP (which from what I can tell is the same thing as hsCRP) is 0.93 on the VAP test in the OP. Is this a pretty good drop from the 1.2 in August? does this change the leaky gut rx?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 15, 2011
at 12:53 AM

Berger, did you btw look at your past records and see if your BUN and creatine were elevated? That could have a bearing, too, combined with your low homocysteine. I'd think ensuring that your kidneys are healthy is the first order of bidness, rather than CRP.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 15, 2011
at 12:05 AM

I'm not saying you have to be nightshade or egg-free. Or even dairy- or gluten-free. My CRP was <0.3 even when I was eating low-carb lavash and bread. Just examine the autoimmune and hypothyroid angle, like mentioned above. Follow up with an ANA and a hypothyroid panel, including antibody tests for Hashimoto's and Grave's.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 15, 2011
at 12:03 AM

For an average person eating SAD, that's a good number. For someone doing Paleo, that has to be lower. Under 0.5 is representative for your diet and exercise. Member when Gary Taubes tested and his was like .75. People were saying, that's elevated for somone doing low carb. Well, Gary isn't gluten or dairy free (like I'm) -- perhaps it's low-grade inflammation that wheat promotes ... a la Track Your Plaque. Mine is <0.3 everytime I test. And I have an autoimmune disease and T2 diabetes. I eat 150g carbs but I'm gluten/dairy/nightshade/ and egg-free.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 15, 2011
at 02:20 PM

I dont think they were, but I will check this when I get home. I dont have that info with me.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 16, 2011
at 01:29 AM

Aug07 Bun18 Cr1.1 Aug09 B10 C0.9 Mar11 B24 C1.3 Aug11 B21 C1.2 Nov11 B23 C1.1

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 16, 2011
at 01:26 AM

Date Bun Creatine 080207 18 1.1 083109 10 0.9 32111 24 1.3 81911 21 1.2 110411 23 1.1

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 18, 2011
at 07:33 AM

Good observations!! ive observed SCr normalize on paleo plus omega3. come on. the hdl for mr.berger was absolute rock bottom... time. time heals. if mr.berger does everything on the same track as now, i suspect BP should normalize in 2-4 wks to 100-110/60s-70s (as in the frasetto study)

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:19 AM

Berger, those #s are elevated except for 2009. Even 8/2007 # is high, considering you were 4 years younger. You're legit Stage 2 CKD, based on GFR. Din't your doc say they're out of the range? How's your BP? I would go see a nephro and check for hypertension (also get your A1c done). I would be cautious in eating more protein than your lean body mass. A 35Y old guy shouldn't have BUN > 20 or Cr > 1; I'm 47Y old, used to take 20mg of Lisinopril for hypertension, and T2 diabetic but my BUN never exceeds 15, my Cr is 0.8<.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:29 AM

My aunt's Bun ~25/Cr 1.3 ==> GFR 50. Your GFR ==> 75-90. Someone healthy at prime should have GFR > 100 when in 30s. My 74Y old uncle has better #s than you.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 06:22 AM

My 70Y old aunt w/hypertension & HBV has BUN ~15, CR 1.3. She is Stage 3b CKD. Time to check out your kidneys and possible hypertension. A nephro may give you a typical warning about proteins damaging kidneys; in your case, you may have had slightly damaged goods b4 starting Paleo.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 18, 2011
at 01:10 PM

Just FYI, the 2009 #'s are from when I was in the hospital from my heart attack, they could have had me on something.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 08:46 PM

Also u might want to get a full picture of what happened in 2009; you want to ask for all records, not just blood tests, which ur entitled to. It's possible that high fat/low carb/high protein Paleo is burdening your kidneys.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 18, 2011
at 09:51 PM

Cardiologist did tell me once to cut back on salt intake, which I told him its very little. Other than that he's never said anything about hypertension.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 11:38 PM

Berger, u realize those are considered high: most docs will put people 140 on BP meds. U don't have any more weight to lose, so I think your hypertension needs to be addressed. U should be on something like Lisinopril 10mg; but your cardy and nephro should assess your circumstances w/regard to your last heart attack. BP meds are not like statins, which come w/a ton of side effects. After I lost 60 lbs. I still take 5mg of Lisinopril even though my BP never exceeds 120/80 to shield my kidneys. There r cheap generics available.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 08:41 PM

Berger, ever seen a nephrologist? Their job is to monitor hypertension and kidneys. Your docs must've told u if you have hypertension: the best way is to get a BP monitor for $29.99, measure everyday both arms 3x. Pick the lowest reading. The 2 most common ways of damaging kidneys are high BP and diabetes. If not, you need to explore more, ultrascan your kidneys. You've had suboptimal kidney functions for a long time; it's time to git to the bottom of it.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 04:54 PM

Everytime you test, sounds unlikely. But it's possible. There's a direct link betw hypertension & kidney function. But your hypertension could also result from, not result in, damaged kidneys. In other words, your kidneys could be the first mover. My guess is your hypertension consists your genetic risk of CVD (which may also include inflammatory markers like ferritin, fibrinogen, IL6). With your recent test, we excluded Lpa and homocysteine. That was very revealing. U also need a urinalysis. I'd go see a nephro for a checkup and he'll probably order an ultrascan and/or a 24H urinalysis.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 11:47 PM

I have a log of my BP readings when I was put on Lisinopril 20mg: 144/90; 140/100; 150/100; 130/90; 140/100; 130/90. U have my systolic but lower diastolic. But that's when I was 60 lbs. overweight. I pay $10/month for the drug.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 18, 2011
at 09:50 PM

and these are the readings I have from that. 9/28/11 144/88, 11/15/11 147/82, 11/18/2011 136/83.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 18, 2011
at 09:47 PM

Thanks Namby. I appreciate you sticking with me here. I've spent all day, week, month (multiple) trying to get my head around this stuff. No, never seen a nephrologist. Cardiologist is the only doc I've seen in years. I really dont want to go see my family doc as I'm sure I'll just be put on meds and told to eat low fat high carb diet. I'm not throwing in the towel yet, but I do feel like I'm getting close to my wits end. I didn't start the paleo diet until July 2011, and the Bun hasn't really changed since then. I've been taking my BP at the little station at WalMart when I go (cont)

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 11:41 PM

U shoudln't think that all meds are bad; some are good ==> metformin and certain BP medications. I would first buy a cheap BP monitor and test myself 3x daily. Get the feel for your resting BP and pulse. Also, if you're IR or diabetic, u could also use something to protect kidneys

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 19, 2011
at 01:57 PM

Namby you are beyond helpful. Thanks for that. As far as the BP and kidney #'s go, could it just be slight dehydration? I'm not as diligent as I should be about drinking water. I'm going to be sure I am hydrated when I take my BP from here on out and see if that makes a difference. And for the kidney #'s, its possible its the same thing. These #'s are usually from a blood sample taken first thing in the morning after fasting 12+ hrs, and I'm sure before I've had any water.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:53 PM

Namby mentioned protein intake and I think the evidence is weak. Please see this prior thread at PH: http://paleohacks.com/questions/8040/protein-and-kidneys/8114#8114

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 05:23 PM

U haven't been Paleoing for long, so I'd watch, not worry over, your lipids and inflammation markers for now. Focus on something that's been long-standing. Your hypertension is mild/moderate, not significantly elevated, but it seems to be long-standing, possibly resulting in your low kidney functions for your age. Give more time for Paleo; address your kidneys/BP and understand your genetic risk of CVD which may have a BP link.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:10 AM

See below for more info... Kruse has a list also of top ten supps is superb! http://www.baumancollege.com/pdfs/articles/MTCardioFinal.pdf

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:06 AM

Id concur with Namby's hypertension comments! With SAD damage, calcified fatty deposits occur in the vacsulature (high BP) kidney(elevated SCr, microalbuminuria), and liver (fatty liver). It is all reversible with time and repletion of lost and depleted nutrients and appropriate lifestyles to restore and optimize hormones (adrenal, thyroid, testosterone, dhea, preg, progesterone, etc). For BP consider the value of mag and omega3.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 22, 2011
at 01:32 PM

Thanks grace! Made an appt with my FP to chat about my kidneys. Also, I did another BP test Sun and the reading was 117/83. Different machine, but it was after I'd sucked down quite a bit of water. Going to test it again today on my lunch (same machine that turned up the above bad #'s) and will make every effort to be well hydrated before I go.

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 23, 2011
at 06:30 PM

I got another high reading (140/86) at lunch. I'll see what my FP says (fwiw, everytime I go to my cardio my reading is fine except once it was 136/82).

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:14 AM

omega 3 and meat act as ace inhibitors according to clinical trials. consider these BP before ever using a xenobiotic, eg pharmaceutical which are associated with numerous adverse effects. (google 'meat and omega 3 as ace inhibitor')

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 22, 2011
at 11:52 PM

Hydration adequacy is important. Our kidneys do a good jib of excreting toxins and without fluids, this vital function can be imapired. Strong work! The 83 still appears midly high for your age, but as Namby says and I concur strongly stay chill. No worries.

0
3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:29 PM

Homework for you Berger6696:

  • Read paleo soln by Robb Wolf.
  • Watch AHS presentations by both Mathieu Lalonde and Robb Wolf. Leaky gut exists despite what Ignorant CW purport.... please fast forward to the 21st century of science.
  • Read the 'leaky gut' and 'gut brain' tagged PH relevant posts and the info, resouces and ideas. They are treasures. A lot of peeps at PH have overcome leaky gut to resolve their respective health condition, what ever the condition was, no matter how severe! PH is awesome!
  • Do not fret.
  • Time heals. UR on the right track and I see few reasons u would not reach ur health goals. (btw, i believe Dex cares a ton; I think few give their time and thoughts as stellar as Dexter's.)

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:43 AM

you do not exhibit skynhigh LDLs like Kronk or Culp. You may have one allelle because u have a family history somewhat rampant for heart disease and the LDL is not < 100. when u r healthier and off the statin, the LDL will be higher but still it probably will not go as high as Kronk's.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on November 12, 2011
at 04:36 AM

I got some good muscle and in winter I am Mr Ketone. LOL.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 06:27 AM

*haa ah!* Coz you have adrenals made of KEVLAR.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:45 AM

I love Robb. he is easier to read than PB! both Sisson and Robb kill me with their humour!! Robb's book also has pictures ;)

7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

(245)

on November 11, 2011
at 11:55 PM

Consider it done. I'm almost finished with PB then I'll hit up paleo soln. Hopefully it has an audio version. I'm a slow reader. I am going to catch up on leaky gut. I'm chillin. And no doubt I've hit a gold mine here with an unbelievable amount of info that can be very overwhelming. I know I came off a little snappy at dex but I really didn't mean anything by it. ALL advice given here is more appreciated than I can express. Do you still think E4 is in play or am I strictly dealing with leaky gut here? I'm kinda confused on how I should proceed with my diet.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 12, 2011
at 12:49 AM

are you avoiding ketosis? too much ketosis, fasting, or skipping meals stress out the adrenal glands which will pump out more cortisol and cause more insulinresistance. basically u don't want excessive cortisol which as Robb says 'cockblocks' muscle gain and fat loss (not that u need to worry about BF!!).

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 18, 2011
at 05:47 AM

Grace, I are a T2 diabetic and I do about 200g of carbs, no grains, just tubers (yams, sweet potatoes). My FBG is lower now with 200g carbs: I'm always between 90-100. This is the increased sensitivity to safe starch carbs that PHD talks about. The point is: safe starches are different from processed and refined carbs. They elicit an insulin response but they do not screw w/your metabolism, even for diabetics. I can't promise that for every diabetic, but I seem to be responding pretty well to higher carbs than when I as ketogenic, constipated and possibly hypothyroid.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 18, 2011
at 07:29 AM

i appreciat ur feedbqck as ive read and love ur posts at ph. however what i notice is that many have more toxin damage like me and we are younger than some of the older healthier ph folks. im like kronk. if i do high carbs i would gain imperceptible visceral fat... my vap would be sh*t. 100 g is fine, dunno about 200. frasetto did the prospective paleo study on prehypertensives and though fasting insulin became quite good, the auc (area under the curve) for insulin was still relativey high on 200-220 paleo carbs daily. these were metsyn patients. id love to hear about ur biomarkers... hdl?

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 20, 2011
at 02:56 AM

Thanks for ur response. Are there any residual T2DM complications? That hgba1c is impressive. Do you supplement Magnesium? Mag is lowered by vitamin D and exercise/sweating and dietary sources are not sufficient to meet needs imho despite paleo sources. Mag controls BP and impacts insulin when deficient... Mag also as ur probably aware improves constipation as well. Big C is a gut flora and mineral issue. Carbs change the gut flora obviously so that is great the impact was quick.Unfortunately VLC and/or ketosis does promote depletion of mag, which I dont really understand but is common.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 05:19 PM

And Dr. B has no solution for Big C, nor does low-carb gurus like Atkins, Rosedale, et al. There has been no real solution offered for continuing constipation from the VLC camp. Nada. The only relief I found is through 150g safe starches.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on November 18, 2011
at 07:23 AM

i concur NP that VLC and ketosis are not ideal metabolic states for eveyrone esp those woth compromised adrenal or thyroid function. brodq barnes avoided ketosis i his hypothyroid and adrenal patients. so how are ur a1c and postprandial glucose and fasting insulin values???? what exercise do u do and duration?? have u successfully reversed ALL diabetic complications? bernstein is also not necessarily VLC or ketotic in his approaches. my belief is that the carb spectrum should be dictated by glycolutic activity.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 05:17 PM

rificed BG control a bit, I'd do it. Try living w/constipation -- and I know this is at least as common as ApoE4, based on people who post about this. The quality of your life plummets when you have to contend with constipation everyday, trust me.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5147)

on November 19, 2011
at 05:16 PM

Grace, my A1c is fine, else I wouldn't be doing 150-200g carbs. I'm now at 5.5 and my A1c under ketogenic/VLC (50g) was 5.5-5.9. Lower FBG, perhaps somewwhat higehr PPs but about the same overall A1c. I'm not sure if I have adrenal or hormone issues, but I probably have had leaky gut since I have Sjogren's. I'm doing Robb Wolf's autoimmune diet w/no gluten, eggs, dairy, nuts, and nightshades. What did I gain w/safe starches of 150-200g? Better skin, no more constipation, moisture in my colon walls, esophagus, and mouth. If I can do all this w/o sacrificing BG control, or heck even if I sac-

0
7b91be6e22d4e2960f40935e306bdee5

on November 10, 2011
at 03:51 PM

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