3

votes

PH & Chicken Hate

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 03, 2012 at 12:01 PM

Why is PH against chicken? I can understand the hate if one is spending $7.99/lb on free range organic breast fillet. But whole chicken is so much cheaper & adds variety (especially soups). Trust me, I can live off lamb & yams. Red meat > white meat I like to throw in some roasted bird once or twice a month. Am I missing something with all this chicken hate?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 04, 2012
at 09:43 PM

Not really, Korion. We're just above room temperature and full of antioxidants.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 04, 2012
at 09:14 PM

Just because you feel good with chicken doesn't mean you feel good from omega-6, Diane. As far as I know chicken is still pretty low in PUFAs compared to nuts. You feel good with nuts? And Matt, won't the PUFAs oxidize in your body anyways?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 04, 2012
at 02:19 PM

What is excess, really? Without nuts and oils, you're not really going to get a PUFA ratio too skewed, maybe 10:1 towards omega-6, but it's the quality of the fat that matters as much as the ratio.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 04, 2012
at 02:18 PM

Agreed. Chicken is boring and bland, plus in terms of CAFO farming, I think poultry production is likely the worst.

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 04, 2012
at 12:27 AM

I don't believe it is problematic at all. I feel absolutely wonderful eating half a chicken once in a while or a large piece of pork. If I don't, my blood gets very thin from all this salmon and my mood gets very vulcan from all this beef. I truly believe this O6 thing from animal fats is a big mistake of paleo if for no other reason than my own personal experience with how wonderful and healthy I feel eating it. There's some knowledge left to be discovered here, I'm sure of it.

1e36119906da54831601a7c23674f581

(698)

on August 03, 2012
at 07:20 PM

Uh, Diane.. PUFAs differ yes, but they all contribute to an excess of arachidonic acid. Isn't that the entire reason we avoid it? I'm pretty sure pastured chickens have a vastly different fatty acid composition than the chickens sold in supermarkets. One which is considerably lower in linoleic acid. Like most things it seems PUFA is useful to some degree but an excess is problematic.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 03, 2012
at 06:35 PM

@Korion, the level of damage and oxidation.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 03, 2012
at 06:13 PM

It may have started with Dr. Kurt Harris and others recommending that eating (grass fed) ruminants is to be preferred for a more ideal n3/n6 ratio. Dr. Harris considers linoleic acid (n6) to be a Neolithic Agent of Disease (NAD).

85178e006119b00322a2401c494dd3a4

(644)

on August 03, 2012
at 05:10 PM

"poultry is the one meat that under no circumstance can be eaten raw or undercooked" ...What about pork?

724ac8ed9ddc603e87adf6cfb901a8d8

(325)

on August 03, 2012
at 04:13 PM

+1 for this answer...a free range bird is not even in the same culinary realm as a factory farmed chicken. The taste, texture and fat are practically from a different animal.

35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:20 PM

If you have a smoker, some time you should stuff a whole chicken full of onions and chile peppers and smoke it on the grill for a few hours. It's richly flavored, lovely and moist.

C4a0c9f9a748f1d3354055bc6d020c7e

(298)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:15 PM

Love it. I get whole free range birds for $11.50 and after 2 or 3 hours on the grill with a beer can up its arse it is one tasty meal that feeds the whole family.

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:14 PM

It's not the same saturated fatty acid in chicken as in soybean oil. The version in animals can be converted more easily to other essential fatty acids plus it is healthier to begin with, from what I recall reading. The knee-jerk reaction is absolutely nonsense. Eat your chicken and pork with gusto. Personally, I don't feel right without some chicken and port on occasion.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 03, 2012
at 01:00 PM

What's the difference between omega-6 in corn oil and omega-6 in avocados/chicken though?

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17 Answers

13
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 03, 2012
at 12:49 PM

Folks hate on the omega-6 fats found in chickens. Paleos have been conditioned into knee-jerk reactions against any and all omega-6s, as if that whole chicken or raw avocado you're eating is equivalent to to high-temperature, hexane extracted corn oil. That's pure nonsense.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 03, 2012
at 01:00 PM

What's the difference between omega-6 in corn oil and omega-6 in avocados/chicken though?

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:14 PM

It's not the same saturated fatty acid in chicken as in soybean oil. The version in animals can be converted more easily to other essential fatty acids plus it is healthier to begin with, from what I recall reading. The knee-jerk reaction is absolutely nonsense. Eat your chicken and pork with gusto. Personally, I don't feel right without some chicken and port on occasion.

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 04, 2012
at 12:27 AM

I don't believe it is problematic at all. I feel absolutely wonderful eating half a chicken once in a while or a large piece of pork. If I don't, my blood gets very thin from all this salmon and my mood gets very vulcan from all this beef. I truly believe this O6 thing from animal fats is a big mistake of paleo if for no other reason than my own personal experience with how wonderful and healthy I feel eating it. There's some knowledge left to be discovered here, I'm sure of it.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 04, 2012
at 02:19 PM

What is excess, really? Without nuts and oils, you're not really going to get a PUFA ratio too skewed, maybe 10:1 towards omega-6, but it's the quality of the fat that matters as much as the ratio.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 04, 2012
at 09:14 PM

Just because you feel good with chicken doesn't mean you feel good from omega-6, Diane. As far as I know chicken is still pretty low in PUFAs compared to nuts. You feel good with nuts? And Matt, won't the PUFAs oxidize in your body anyways?

1e36119906da54831601a7c23674f581

(698)

on August 03, 2012
at 07:20 PM

Uh, Diane.. PUFAs differ yes, but they all contribute to an excess of arachidonic acid. Isn't that the entire reason we avoid it? I'm pretty sure pastured chickens have a vastly different fatty acid composition than the chickens sold in supermarkets. One which is considerably lower in linoleic acid. Like most things it seems PUFA is useful to some degree but an excess is problematic.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 03, 2012
at 06:35 PM

@Korion, the level of damage and oxidation.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 04, 2012
at 09:43 PM

Not really, Korion. We're just above room temperature and full of antioxidants.

7
0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

on August 03, 2012
at 12:50 PM

PH doesn't hate chicken, individual PHers hate chicken.

For myself, it's simply the blandest boringest meat I've ever eaten. When I get in the mood for bird, I opt for turkey dark meat which at least has some flavor. Every time I eat chicken, by the time I've finished it I wonder why the heck I bothered.

Edited to add: I know the PUFA/Omega thing is important to a lot of people, for me it's just the pointless flavorlessness of the whole exercise.

35ba1f50dad25c85ac1aa2599fe5c5cb

(2485)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:20 PM

If you have a smoker, some time you should stuff a whole chicken full of onions and chile peppers and smoke it on the grill for a few hours. It's richly flavored, lovely and moist.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on August 04, 2012
at 02:18 PM

Agreed. Chicken is boring and bland, plus in terms of CAFO farming, I think poultry production is likely the worst.

5
7e1433afbb06c318c4d90860d493c49d

(5959)

on August 03, 2012
at 12:31 PM

I haven't noticed this chicken hate, but it probably has its origins in the high percentage of polyunsaturated fatty acids in chicken fat, especially with grain-fed chicken. The way I see it, PUFAs are ubiquitous in whole, natural foods, so in the context of whole, natural foods in a diet completely devoid of industrial seed oils, I don't worry about it. I'll eat the skin and chicken fat from pastured poultry, but with organic, grain-fed chicken, I generally limit myself to skinless breasts. On the rare occasions I do buy organic, grain-fed thighs or drumsticks, I bake or broil them such that the fat runs off and can be discarded.

3
Daf56fdc7582cca0f7f3b2ad6a5be798

(114)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:50 PM

I love chicken but factory farmed and even normal free range chicken is creepy and bland to me.

Where I live, truly pastured chicken ends up being more expensive than grass fed beef. I do end up buying a few whole chickens a month and stretch it to make bone broth, but that is all I can afford.

724ac8ed9ddc603e87adf6cfb901a8d8

(325)

on August 03, 2012
at 04:13 PM

+1 for this answer...a free range bird is not even in the same culinary realm as a factory farmed chicken. The taste, texture and fat are practically from a different animal.

3
Ef9f83cb4e1826261a44c173f733789e

on August 03, 2012
at 01:18 PM

I hate on chicken (and turkey) white meat because it's so dry and tasteless. I can choke it down if I dress it up enough.

Also, I still consider chicken to be sorta mundane compared to other meats because of my upbringing. It was cheap and we had it far more often than other meats. It's the last thing I would ever order in a restaurant no matter how it's prepared.

2
7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on August 03, 2012
at 01:57 PM

A chicken bit me when I was a youngster. It hurt. I'm just sayin' - thats why I hate them.

1
74d3afd30ebc0d604d56c6de897bb9a8

(100)

on August 22, 2012
at 06:47 PM

chicken can have fluorine in it, because of the fluorine-based pesticides in their feed. Like, ridiculously high levels, especially in the skin, bones, and fat.

1
0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

on August 03, 2012
at 06:08 PM

Chicken is so boring. the flavor is bland. The only part of the chicken worth eating in my opinion are the livers and the heart. Chicken hearts are my favorite organ meat. The rest of the chicken is bland and I'm not too wild about the texture of cooked chicken.

1
7b9b5de13a30c823dae64a971cb14add

on August 03, 2012
at 04:53 PM

I pretty much only eat chicken thighs now for the flavor quotient. If I cook a whole chicken, the breast has to be disguised in something like tacos or something with sauce for it to be exciting.

1
5495f20862fee8ca6a3d6cf6ece99356

(387)

on August 03, 2012
at 01:03 PM

Beer can chicken on the grill, no hate here.

C4a0c9f9a748f1d3354055bc6d020c7e

(298)

on August 03, 2012
at 02:15 PM

Love it. I get whole free range birds for $11.50 and after 2 or 3 hours on the grill with a beer can up its arse it is one tasty meal that feeds the whole family.

1
9beda76f4e91faedc8fa70ecdc01251e

(298)

on August 03, 2012
at 12:46 PM

Well, we raise meat birds almost every summer, so we usually have a freezer full of whole chickens. I get tired of them, I'll admit, but no chicken hate here. They do eat grain, but also a whole lot of bugs and some greens and flowers.

0
Cc3ce03985eac5ebcbb95fc2329f13b0

on August 03, 2012
at 07:06 PM

I haven't noticed chicken hate. I eat chicken. Not as much as beef or pork, but I eat it.

0
61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on August 03, 2012
at 05:47 PM

I like chicken! Chicken and kale soup is one of my favorite things ever. Sure, there's the whole o6-o3 ratio thing, but if you're eating Paleo you're way ahead of the game and the thing about ratios is that you don't have to cut down on one side to even it out; you can just add to the other.

I do notice that grocery store chickens make terrible broth though. Greasy and bland. Don't blame anyone who finds chicken, especially the grocery store ones, to be blah. But anything blackened is amazing, so there is always that option.

0
4b05d725a8332e8e917a4ca58b6e8a1e

(1239)

on August 03, 2012
at 05:10 PM

I'm going a little against the PH grain here to say that I don't eat chicken because after raising hens for years, I just can't bring myself to eat it much anymore. Now, I never liked it much to begin with, but now that I've experienced what dynamic, curious, interesting creatures they are, I have a hard time dealing with them on my plate. It's odd because I do NOT have the same reaction to beef (I used to live on an uncle's farm each summer and even helped with slaughter), pork, or any of the hunted meat I've consumed over the years. I do appreciate all animals that my meat comes from, but chickens are the only ones that I flat-out don't want to kill and eat.

0
2336245491a87ee15d4fb8f8f8283909

(1173)

on August 03, 2012
at 04:04 PM

I think slow cooked chicken is great...We eat quite a bit of it.

0
361bc16cfdad25411a6f93e10c45aadc

on August 03, 2012
at 01:24 PM

Chicken = boring unless prepared well

Something like a chicken curry or crockpot stew can be delicious (specially with bacon added)

I don't get crazy about some omega 6 if the rest of my diet is dialed, who knows maybe I'm even getting a good little hormetic stress from it?

0
63a390e394971bd87e12b706fdb8456e

(309)

on August 03, 2012
at 01:21 PM

Aside from chicken being the most flavorless of all the meat options... I have to say it grosses me out to know that poultry is the one meat that under no circumstance can be eaten raw or undercooked. Beef, salmon, eggs, lamb, oysters, etc can all be successfully eaten raw when from a trusted source. The idea that poultry has such a high risk of contamination really turns me off to it, so it only shows up on my grocery list for about 1 recipe a week.

85178e006119b00322a2401c494dd3a4

(644)

on August 03, 2012
at 05:10 PM

"poultry is the one meat that under no circumstance can be eaten raw or undercooked" ...What about pork?

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