4

votes

Why, oh why is the smallest amount of dairy doing this to me?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 28, 2012 at 4:02 AM

Over a year ago I was diagnosed as celiac and started eating a low carb grain free diet based sort of on WAP. It was paleo with lots of dairy. I was eating cheese or yogurt with every meal and in addition to feeling crappy in general, I started to develop huge sebaceaous (sp?) cysts in my groin area. I seriously have large discolored scars there because they kept growing and rupturing.

PHD convinced me to quit LC and that fixed many problems I was having except the cysts. About 9 months ago I quit all dairy 100% in an effort to improve hormonal balance, cholesterol and digestive issues (success) and hopefully some mild acne (did nothing for this). Interesting enough the cysts went away. I was hoping it wasn't the dairy, but about 6 months ago I had a few spoonfuls of ice cream with the family and I grew a cyst within two days. I couldn't believe it. I have not had any dairy since.

I never plan on eating dairy as a staple because my hormones and cholesterol do better without it, but I was hoping that I could have the rare slice of cheese on my burger or a couple of my favorite gluten free shortbread cookies that are made with butter, without it totally feaking my body out. So after 6 months of no dairy and no cysts, I sampled a small slice (1/4 oz.) of aged cheddar with the hope that the ice cream incident was a coincidence.

AND...

Two days later I have a small cyst in my groin. WTF?

What is it about butter and cheese that is causing this and why is it happening only "down there?" This never happened to me before I went low carb, gluten free and I ate cheese before, but not nearly as much as I did for the few months I was LC. Is it some kind of inflammatory or allergic reaction and is that sort of thing common, like lactose intolerance is? Could I be causing it by worrying so much about that cheese I ate? In other words, is it all in my head? Is it even possible to react suchly to cheese?

6fd9e7a17ba41241a2fd09ec38ae9bd1

(0)

on December 15, 2013
at 05:18 AM

Anyone care to comment on how these compare in quality terms with other city centreI can't remember the pattern but I do still remember what they look like.http://www.jamespersonaltailor.co.uk so you may want to look for a seamstress or tailor who works close to where you live or work

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 08, 2012
at 06:04 AM

diabetes as well, since most are diagnosed years after their condition. The most likely culprit is VLCing, which B preaches with religious conviction; it's all or nothing for him. Since Dr. B is a forthright and guileless individual, he openly wonders how often his patients become hypothyroid and develop myriad autoimmune conditions. Unfortunately, he is insular in his thinking and hasn't had the time to engage in much cross-pollination. All he cares is VLCing to maintain BG control, even though that could lead to conditions and complications possibly more serious than diabetes.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 08, 2012
at 05:58 AM

Here's how muddled your thinking is. All of B's patients are already diabetics doing VLC. They either all show up with 1 or more autoimmune conditions or develop 1 soon after. What are the odds that his patients were gluten and dairy free BEFORE seeing Dr. B, when he doesn't encourage it? What are the odds that they'd become autoimmune AFTER trying VLC? Everthhing else being equal don't you think the odds are heavier that VLC will induce autoimmunity, not consuming gluten and dairy, which virtually every American does unless they are overtly allergenic? The odds are stacked against

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on March 03, 2012
at 08:34 PM

Simply this: The minority of those 90% is LC in any way. It's sensible to assume that factors actually known to increase gut permeability, such as gluten and casein, contribute to autoimmune conditions like Hashimoto's. A quick search shows Bernstein's protocol to be recommending dairy products, soy, nuts (all excluded on a paleo autoimmune diet) and vegetables (think goitrogens) to people who already have diabetes. These are people already suffering from metabolic and hormonal imbalances. This isn't enough to draw any conclusions about VLC itself.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on March 03, 2012
at 08:31 PM

Simply this: The minority of those 90% is LC in any way. It's sensible to assume that factors actually known to increase gut permeability, such as gluten and casein, are responsible for autoimmune conditions like Hashimoto's. A quick search shows Bernstein's protocol to be recommending dairy products, soy, nuts (all excluded on a paleo autoimmune diet) and vegetables (think goitrogens) to people who already have diabetes. These are people already suffering from metabolic and hormonal imbalances. This isn't enough to draw any conclusions about VLC itself.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:41 AM

Now, if ur belssed with surgical reasoning skills, provide some rationale why u would make the opposite conclusion: that it is illogical to think that VLCing could be linked to hypothyroidism, or by extension, autoimmunity. I'm curious exactly how much u can bring to the table and not driven by an explicit agenda.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:39 AM

the two are probably linked, based on the anecdotal evidence provided by low-carb advocates like Dr. Bernstein, whose patients, as he freely admits, are virtually all autoimmune. Furthermore, they seem to develop additional autoimmune conditions (the piggyback phenomenon) as time passes (i.e., as they continue VLCing as they must if you wanna remain Dr. B's patient). Is it a coincidence? It could well be. But I think it's very probable that VLCing does contribute to the genesis of autoimmunity, just based on the shock to the system and metabological and hormonal imbalances it engenders.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:34 AM

Let me see if you can follow this. Do u realize that virtually all of hypothyroid cases are autoimmune? The causes are autoimmune and the percentage is something like 90% of all hypothyroid cases. Just google. Now, consider that autoimmunity has a very compelling, recent etiology as spelled out by Alessio Fasano: gut permeability. If the type of hypothyroid cases that predominate among VLCers is autoimmune, as it seems to be based both on preponderance and percentage, why is it farfetched to think that VLCing could induce autoimmunity? I don't know the mechanism but I hypothesized that

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:21 PM

Sorry, that's not how logic works.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on February 29, 2012
at 05:57 PM

Are you aware of many people who are hypothyroid that are not caused by Hashimoto's?

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on February 29, 2012
at 03:10 PM

What makes think you that VLC-associated hypothyroidism is Hashimoto's/autoimmune?

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:29 PM

I have some gluten test strips, but they only go down to 10ppm. I doubt the milk has that much gluten, but it would be interesting to test it, anyway. Good idea!

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on February 28, 2012
at 06:39 PM

Can you get some gluten test strips and test your milk?

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on February 28, 2012
at 06:12 PM

That first link is missing the "h" at the beginning. I apologize.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on February 28, 2012
at 06:11 PM

Heather, the FailSafe Diet blog might be of some use to you. Could be casein, lactose, amines, or who knows what. Here is the main link: ttp://failsafediet.wordpress.com/ And the page for super-responders: http://failsafediet.wordpress.com/the-rpah-elimination-diet-failsafe/advice-for-super-responders/ Page about gluten and casein: http://failsafediet.wordpress.com/the-rpah-elimination-diet-failsafe/gluten-and-casein-responders/ Hope this helps some. :)

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on February 28, 2012
at 03:24 PM

I used to be able to handle eggs until recently. Then I did some testing and sure enough, I could trace it to them, too.

75b3b900d09e555fc57b74ca24f7a76a

on February 28, 2012
at 03:04 PM

"Normal" may be an overstatement, as I still struggle with significant inflammation issues.

75b3b900d09e555fc57b74ca24f7a76a

on February 28, 2012
at 03:03 PM

Yes! I went gluten free and high Omega 3/low Omega 6 and felt so much better...but still very bad. Then dairy, nuts, nightshades, and finally eggs had to go before I felt normal. Any small lapses in any of these areas is felt 8-12 hrs later neurologically (neuropathy, neuralgia, brain fog, lack of coordination, exhaustion) On the bright side, I had immediate, clear improvements for each thing I cut out, so I knew for sure that my diet changes were making a difference.

Af3e3615beba642bcafd0f21d64d74f7

on February 28, 2012
at 05:18 AM

Could make a difference, but probably best to just say goodbye to dairy really.

07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

(3162)

on February 28, 2012
at 05:15 AM

Yea, I became hypothyroid on 50 grams a day. Actually, my health completely tanked which was very frustrating after having a couple of weeks of being newly gluten free and feeling well for the first time I can remember. Then I watched Fathead, read taubes and decided carbs were bad, hahahaha...damn. Well I'm fine without cheese, just don't take away my eggs and nightshades! I've had no reactions to them yet.

07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

(3162)

on February 28, 2012
at 05:01 AM

Maybe I will try again in a few weeks with goat cheese.

07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

(3162)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:58 AM

Raw, organic, but not grass fed.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:44 AM

I don't do cheese but to sub for cream, I do coconut milk that come in a can (not in a carton). They're ok for coffee.

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10 Answers

4
3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

on February 28, 2012
at 04:37 AM

I used to be able to handle dairy fine. In fact, I practically grew up on Cocoa Puffs and Fuit Loops. Without Product 19 and whole milk I would not have made it through college. What seems to have happened is that once you're inflicted with autoimmunity, your gut lining becomes permeable to a whole hierarchy of antigens: first gluten, then dairy, then eggs, then nightshades, then soy, then legumes, then nuts ...

Gluten is the battering ram, then dairy starts seeping out ... the exact order of antigens seems to be highly personal. For me, nightshades aren't as bad as dairy nor eggs.

My own theory, based on anecdotal evidence here and my owne experience, is that VLCing, that is, ketogenic carb restriction, will accelerate and even spark autoimmune symptoms. Just observe how frequently those who VLC become hyothyroid. Well, the mechanism is pretty much autoimmune: Hashimoto's. If the same mechanism underlies it all, then it's very plausible that other autoimmune diseases could piggyback. Very few people have only 1 autoimmune disease. You probably have more than one (the most frequently-occuring being psoriasis); you just haven't been tested for it.

So once your gut becomes permeable, that's when weird allergies start to show up, and you become intolerant of things that even used to be your staple foods. That's my impression.

75b3b900d09e555fc57b74ca24f7a76a

on February 28, 2012
at 03:03 PM

Yes! I went gluten free and high Omega 3/low Omega 6 and felt so much better...but still very bad. Then dairy, nuts, nightshades, and finally eggs had to go before I felt normal. Any small lapses in any of these areas is felt 8-12 hrs later neurologically (neuropathy, neuralgia, brain fog, lack of coordination, exhaustion) On the bright side, I had immediate, clear improvements for each thing I cut out, so I knew for sure that my diet changes were making a difference.

07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

(3162)

on February 28, 2012
at 05:15 AM

Yea, I became hypothyroid on 50 grams a day. Actually, my health completely tanked which was very frustrating after having a couple of weeks of being newly gluten free and feeling well for the first time I can remember. Then I watched Fathead, read taubes and decided carbs were bad, hahahaha...damn. Well I'm fine without cheese, just don't take away my eggs and nightshades! I've had no reactions to them yet.

75b3b900d09e555fc57b74ca24f7a76a

on February 28, 2012
at 03:04 PM

"Normal" may be an overstatement, as I still struggle with significant inflammation issues.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on February 28, 2012
at 03:24 PM

I used to be able to handle eggs until recently. Then I did some testing and sure enough, I could trace it to them, too.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on February 29, 2012
at 03:10 PM

What makes think you that VLC-associated hypothyroidism is Hashimoto's/autoimmune?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on February 29, 2012
at 05:57 PM

Are you aware of many people who are hypothyroid that are not caused by Hashimoto's?

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:21 PM

Sorry, that's not how logic works.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:41 AM

Now, if ur belssed with surgical reasoning skills, provide some rationale why u would make the opposite conclusion: that it is illogical to think that VLCing could be linked to hypothyroidism, or by extension, autoimmunity. I'm curious exactly how much u can bring to the table and not driven by an explicit agenda.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on March 03, 2012
at 08:34 PM

Simply this: The minority of those 90% is LC in any way. It's sensible to assume that factors actually known to increase gut permeability, such as gluten and casein, contribute to autoimmune conditions like Hashimoto's. A quick search shows Bernstein's protocol to be recommending dairy products, soy, nuts (all excluded on a paleo autoimmune diet) and vegetables (think goitrogens) to people who already have diabetes. These are people already suffering from metabolic and hormonal imbalances. This isn't enough to draw any conclusions about VLC itself.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:34 AM

Let me see if you can follow this. Do u realize that virtually all of hypothyroid cases are autoimmune? The causes are autoimmune and the percentage is something like 90% of all hypothyroid cases. Just google. Now, consider that autoimmunity has a very compelling, recent etiology as spelled out by Alessio Fasano: gut permeability. If the type of hypothyroid cases that predominate among VLCers is autoimmune, as it seems to be based both on preponderance and percentage, why is it farfetched to think that VLCing could induce autoimmunity? I don't know the mechanism but I hypothesized that

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:39 AM

the two are probably linked, based on the anecdotal evidence provided by low-carb advocates like Dr. Bernstein, whose patients, as he freely admits, are virtually all autoimmune. Furthermore, they seem to develop additional autoimmune conditions (the piggyback phenomenon) as time passes (i.e., as they continue VLCing as they must if you wanna remain Dr. B's patient). Is it a coincidence? It could well be. But I think it's very probable that VLCing does contribute to the genesis of autoimmunity, just based on the shock to the system and metabological and hormonal imbalances it engenders.

2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on March 03, 2012
at 08:31 PM

Simply this: The minority of those 90% is LC in any way. It's sensible to assume that factors actually known to increase gut permeability, such as gluten and casein, are responsible for autoimmune conditions like Hashimoto's. A quick search shows Bernstein's protocol to be recommending dairy products, soy, nuts (all excluded on a paleo autoimmune diet) and vegetables (think goitrogens) to people who already have diabetes. These are people already suffering from metabolic and hormonal imbalances. This isn't enough to draw any conclusions about VLC itself.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 08, 2012
at 06:04 AM

diabetes as well, since most are diagnosed years after their condition. The most likely culprit is VLCing, which B preaches with religious conviction; it's all or nothing for him. Since Dr. B is a forthright and guileless individual, he openly wonders how often his patients become hypothyroid and develop myriad autoimmune conditions. Unfortunately, he is insular in his thinking and hasn't had the time to engage in much cross-pollination. All he cares is VLCing to maintain BG control, even though that could lead to conditions and complications possibly more serious than diabetes.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on March 08, 2012
at 05:58 AM

Here's how muddled your thinking is. All of B's patients are already diabetics doing VLC. They either all show up with 1 or more autoimmune conditions or develop 1 soon after. What are the odds that his patients were gluten and dairy free BEFORE seeing Dr. B, when he doesn't encourage it? What are the odds that they'd become autoimmune AFTER trying VLC? Everthhing else being equal don't you think the odds are heavier that VLC will induce autoimmunity, not consuming gluten and dairy, which virtually every American does unless they are overtly allergenic? The odds are stacked against

2
7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on February 28, 2012
at 01:13 PM

I also have celiac disease and lately I've really been wondering about the ability of gluten to get through to the milk. I've read case studies of allergenic proteins (usually peanut agglutinin, since that gets studied more) getting through to breast milk and semen. And many breastfeeding mothers report their infants reacting to the breast milk if mom ate something allergenic to the baby. So it at least seems there is some evidence in humans, though the findings are complicated by leaky gut issues. I haven't yet seen any studies of this on cows, though.

Like you, I've had paradoxical responses to dairy. Sometimes I can handle it ok, and other times not. The strangest to me is that I can usually tolerate ice cream ok, and butter is usually almost as bad as straight milk. Since I usually get hippy dippy ice cream from grass fed cows, I wonder if somehow bits of gluten are present in the milk I do react to, from grain-fed cows: not enough to be a full blown celiac reaction, but enough to cause gut disturbance. So I guess my bottom line is, once you've been off dairy for a little while again, maybe do a trial with dairy you know is from cows that don't eat any gluten, to test this hypothesis.

Also, if you wanted to rule out a lactose reaction, you could try taking milk with lactaid to see if that prevents the cysts.

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on February 28, 2012
at 06:39 PM

Can you get some gluten test strips and test your milk?

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:29 PM

I have some gluten test strips, but they only go down to 10ppm. I doubt the milk has that much gluten, but it would be interesting to test it, anyway. Good idea!

1
Ef089e1180f240aa9fd2d089f7f38b45

(279)

on February 28, 2012
at 10:30 AM

What happens if you supplement on lactase? From reading forums, it seems some users can overcome lactose intolerance with it. However, the lactose might not be the cause of your response to dairy. As suggested in other posts, I would also experiment with goat milk and grass-fed only dairy.

1
Af3e3615beba642bcafd0f21d64d74f7

on February 28, 2012
at 04:35 AM

RAW grassfed dairy or just any old store bought cheese/dairy/yogurt?

07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

(3162)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:58 AM

Raw, organic, but not grass fed.

Af3e3615beba642bcafd0f21d64d74f7

on February 28, 2012
at 05:18 AM

Could make a difference, but probably best to just say goodbye to dairy really.

1
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:19 AM

Have you tried goat/sheep dairy instead of cow? Many people who are intolerant to cow lactose/casein, can tolerate lactose-free sheep/goat dairy (e.g. hard cheeses that have almost no lactose left, and home-made probiotic goat/sheep yogurt fermented for 24 hours until most lactose is gone -- most commercial yogurt is only fermented for 4 hours).

07c86972a3bea0b0dc17752e9d2f5642

(3162)

on February 28, 2012
at 05:01 AM

Maybe I will try again in a few weeks with goat cheese.

0
9a19846adfae25b2e17c32d9af386f02

(151)

on December 14, 2013
at 11:30 PM

Same problem for me - all types of dairy cause the cysts for me, mostly on the back of my neck/shoulders and right at my pant line. I've tried only organic,grassfed,and goat's to no avail.

I can get away with small amounts of hard cheese, but I go pretty much dairy free because it's just not worth it.

0
C74e7d0a2207c75e4ab986aaa44fa367

on November 08, 2012
at 04:19 PM

Make sure the cheese you are consuming is made from ANIMAL RENNET. If you've bought from Whole Foods, another health food store, or if it says "VEGETARIAN" anywhere on the package, it's more likely they've used vegetable (corn, soy, etc.) derived Rennet and/or enzymes.

0
8e60d876ee5c7501c42e61d5f36682e7

(0)

on November 08, 2012
at 12:33 PM

It took years and self-diagnosis for me to determine that cysts I developed were directly related to dairy consumption... but they grow on my bum, not groin. Dermatologist said "dry skin", Internal Med Doc said "over-active oil glands". Finally I started paying attention as to when they developed, and it didn't take long since I consumed dairy sporadically. I told my doc that it was dairy, and he just looked at me funny. I just avoid it now, or expect a cyst if I do have any.. I assume it's just because humans shouldn't have cows milk anyway :). I have ab- blood type, and wonder if that has something to do with it, since no one seemed to have a clue. ab- is new on the scene of blood types, just 200+/- years old, and still rare. So, what's your blood type??

0
63a390e394971bd87e12b706fdb8456e

(309)

on June 23, 2012
at 12:10 AM

Heather, have you continued to experience the connection with dairy? I recently developed a cyst a week ago in my groin and ive been paleo (including organic grass-fed yogurt & a small piece of aged cheese everyday) for six months with great results. I never really had much dairy in my diet prior to eating this way, so your post has me very interested as I've never had any kind of cyst on my body before.

0
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on February 29, 2012
at 08:25 AM

Caseine is likey reacting in a similar way to gluten for you.

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