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Paleo cure: bone on bone knee pain? Does one exist? Caused by diet?

Commented on January 26, 2014
Created January 19, 2014 at 12:08 AM

A 60 year old friend of mine has been experiencing very severe knee pain.

She went to the doctor, got an xray and was told that the cartilage is missing (or reduced) at several spots, and years from know, she'll be a candidate for knee replacements.

QUESTION: What causes this? She was never one to exercise or over-do it. She's not obese. Is there any connection to diet (in either causing it, or perhaps helping it?)

Any & all comments very much welcome,

Thanks,

Mike

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on January 26, 2014
at 03:42 AM

yes, she is still mobile, and you are right: she's not one apt to change :-)

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on January 20, 2014
at 08:58 PM

does this regrow cartilage or just help preserve what u got?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 20, 2014
at 02:58 AM

i know what you mean. tho technically these treatments are not 'alternative' medicine, they are just less common alternatives to surgery, but still implemented by conventional qualified doctors/surgeons. prp has been around for a while (check pubmed), stem cells for this sort of thing is fairly recent, there have been a few clinical trials. the stem cells are derived from the patients own fat

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on January 19, 2014
at 11:21 PM

Thanks daz: she is not into alternative / complimentary medicine. She thinks I'm a nut job because I think food matters, and I talk about paleo diet stuff. The odds of her doing anything are probably nil. Her answer: my sister has the exact same thing: it's hereditary - nothing can be done.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on January 19, 2014
at 11:20 PM

Great suggestions! So basically: diet does matter, and can effect cartilage: it's not just a mechanical problem. Good to know!

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 19, 2014
at 11:01 PM

if your friend has 'money to spare', the newer treatments to research are prp (platelet-rich plasma) injections and (the latest) stem cell therapy injections, or stem cells & prp together.

if you follow tennis, apparently Nadal has been having prp for a number of years (tho his knee injuries are not meniscus related afaik) & has added stem cell treatment more recently.

a couple of stem cell refs; #1 #2 (need to google translate #2 from Spanish...unless you can read Spanish).

(google for the prp info & more stem cell info)

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 19, 2014
at 10:53 PM

removing parts of the meniscus supposedly raises the odds you will get arthritis in the knee in the future

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on January 19, 2014
at 10:51 PM

some things to investigate possibly. given your xray comment, she may have a worn meniscus.

the meniscus can also tear, usually resulting in a clicking or locking knee. when this happens lots(?) of surgeons 'like' to remove some of the meniscus in mature patients because it is unlikely to heal (apparently) in older people, see Tear_of_meniscus. (this surgery is not a good idea in my view, unless a last resort to fix a badly clicking or locked knee)...

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3 Answers

0
Medium avatar

on January 21, 2014
at 06:45 AM

1. Do not buy Glucosamine Chondritin - there was a major recall / legal suit against companies selling GC as its recently been proven to not do anything positive for cartilage or synovial fluid. 2. Your friend could just have degenerative cartilage. I am 30 and was diagnosed with that when I was younger than 18, some people get it, others don't. It may not be bad diet, not sure why people immediately assume anyone that is not 100% healthy must be eating crap all day?? 3. Can your friend still walk? As long as you are mobile in some manner, it will help with the pain, sanity, and will keep you moving in the long run even if its painful. The absolute worst thing to do would be to stop moving. 4. X rays will not show all that is wrong. If your friend has insurance, request an MRI to get a full picture of what is going on. Most MDs will not give MRI's out unless its for a very good reason, but if you go to a specialist, you can get one ordered.

5. With your friend being 60, getting her to change her diet will be very hard. At this point, its more about keeping her comfortable and moving as much as possible.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on January 26, 2014
at 03:42 AM

yes, she is still mobile, and you are right: she's not one apt to change :-)

0
194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on January 20, 2014
at 07:37 PM

Look into knox (or great lakes) gelatin.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on January 20, 2014
at 08:58 PM

does this regrow cartilage or just help preserve what u got?

0
3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on January 19, 2014
at 11:13 PM

If her diet was bad all these years, then no wonder she sees so much wear and tear in her body. It's possible that there are other parts of her body falling apart, it's just that this one is the most "visible" one.

2.5+ years ago I fell into my mom's hallway and almost busted my right knee (her floors are extremely slippery because she uses very strong detergents -- just so you know if you ever visit ;-). It hurt really bad for a while afterwards and it still hurts occasionally, when my diet falls off a bit. However, during my more hard core Paleo times, there was never pain. I did the following to heal my knee (in addition to the rest of my body that was falling apart too):

1. Drank home-made grass-fed bone broth daily (either in food, or heated up with a bit of lemon on a cup). Slow cook for 24 hours with a pinch of apple cider vinegar or lemon juice, add veggies at the last 3 hours (carrots, celery, onion). Fill glass jars to keep in the fridge up to a week, or plastic bags to the freezer up to a month.

2. This: http://www.amazon.com/21st-Century-Glucosamine-Chondroitin-StrengthTablets/dp/B0044B7X8S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1390172527&sr=8-2&keywords=cartilage+vitamins

3. And this: http://www.amazon.com/youtheoryTM-Collagen-Advanced-Formula-Tablets/dp/B005ZZK6JU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1390172576&sr=8-2&keywords=collagen+supplements

4. Magnesium (2-3 times a week). Almost everybody in the Western world is deficient on it, because our soil is.

5. D3 1000 IU 2-3 times a week (and walking outside in the sun, with some exposed skin, DAILY). Sleeping by 10:30 PM.

6. CoQ10 Ubiquinol 2-3 times a week (I made sure it's not the cheaper, and less potent Ubiquinone).

And of course, I avoid the big three bad things on Paleo:

1. Glutenous grains + oats + GMO corn/soy (much faster healing, and way less inflammation).

2. Vegetable seed oils and margarine (go for coconut, olive, butter, animal fats).

3. Processed foods (this includes most GF baking goods too), and excessive consumption of sugar.

That's it, really. A balanced diet ("lite Paleo"): with lots of different veggies, good meats and eggs, fruits, *wild* fish/shellfish/sea-veggies, a few soaked nuts, properly prepared legumes (soaked for 24 hours and pressure cooked), home-made goat kefir, and these few supplements to specifically treat a busted knee.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on January 19, 2014
at 11:20 PM

Great suggestions! So basically: diet does matter, and can effect cartilage: it's not just a mechanical problem. Good to know!

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