2

votes

Carnivore + Yams, what would I be missing

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 14, 2010 at 3:26 PM

Let's say

  • Grass Fed Steaks, Roasts, Ground Beef

  • Free Range Eggs

  • Salmon

  • Bacon, preserve free

  • Yams

  • Kerrygold or other Grassfed Butter

  • Coconut Oil

Avoiding the vegetable anti nutrients and nutrients, what mineral, vitamin deficiencies can you forsee?

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on December 27, 2012
at 06:19 AM

but if you want to add plant foods, i'd rather add yams/tubers than fibrous vegetables!

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on December 27, 2012
at 06:18 AM

i hate fiber, it screws up my gut health. i get diarrhea and i stay fat. i say carnivore diet all the way

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:12 AM

Insulin load is non-issue in healthy active people. What vitamins are "veggies" denser in than a yam? Why is chicken+ broccoli better than chicken and yam. You are repeating yourselves while not answering the question.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:08 AM

Well if this thread is any indication - Moral superiority.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 21, 2011
at 02:29 AM

What do they add that you aren't getting above? I haven't removed them, but it's hypothetical.

535633b57c4a4940d1e913e7a12ee791

(1013)

on April 21, 2011
at 02:14 AM

I see no benefit in taking out non-starchy vegetables

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on February 25, 2011
at 04:06 AM

I have almost the exact same diet.... when I do yams I mash them with equal parts sweet potatoe, add a ton of raw grass fed butter, and it tastes unbelievably good

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 16, 2010
at 03:41 PM

It's... So... FLUFFY!!!

Af842c68e3d07fa0e35b4274f3acaeec

on August 15, 2010
at 08:37 PM

Well, the costs of eating vegetables...small amounts of some compounds that can inhibit the absorption of certain minerals, slight insulin response. That's the only things I can think off that are detrimental;the toxin load can be dealt with my switching up the types of veggies, as Robb Wolf has recommended, and if you're eating tubers, you're already getting a much larger insulin load. The benefits of eating veggies: extremely high nutrient density, soluble fiber which promotes gut flora, anti-cancer attributes. I don't understand why you would completely take out non-starchy vegetables

8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 15, 2010
at 10:41 AM

Nuts are high in Vitamin E. They're not seeds, nuts are fruit (according to the botanical definition). Avocados apparently are a good source of Vitamin K. But menaquinone-4 (Vitamin K2) is in meat, eggs and dairy. Although maybe it's higher in grass-fed.

8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 15, 2010
at 10:40 AM

Nuts are high in Vitamin E. They're not seeds, nuts are fruit (according to the botanical definition). Avocados apparently are a good source of Vitamin K. But menaquinone-4 (Vitamin K2) is in meat, eggs and dairy so I wonder why it came up short on Fitday.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on August 15, 2010
at 05:20 AM

No interest in recreation. I'm very panu/evolutionary metabolism

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 15, 2010
at 02:10 AM

I htink the jury is still out on marrow. Fat would have been super impt to paleos as wild animals are lower in fat and native populations work hard to get fat. We know marrow is high in fat. We don't if it has lots of other things or not.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on August 15, 2010
at 12:28 AM

See above comment :)

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 14, 2010
at 10:21 PM

What evidence do you have that the benefits of eating vegetables outweigh the costs?

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6 Answers

4
9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

on August 14, 2010
at 08:38 PM

I think the diet you described would be just fine. I would personally include the occasional tongue, liver, heart, marrow and what not, for taste and nutrition.

To all of those calculating the fitday RDAs, you have to stay aware that the nutrient profile is often for grain-fed and factory produced food, which is very different than grass-fed beef, butter and eggs.

I tend to think that we probably put too much emphasis on variety. After all, some of the healthiest cultures had a diet with very few food items and they didn't have any problems even though they didn't have the occasional avocado or spinach.

If you eat liver once in a while and don't eat much carb otherwise, you'll get enough vitamin C.

As for calcium, it's more a matter of getting enough vitamin A, D and K2 which all work to utilize the calcium correctly. K2 levels are high in grass-fed butter, marrow, pastured eggs and liver, with butter and foie gras probably being the best sources. Weston A. Price found that cultures that had enough K2 didn't have bone or tooth problems.

Another indication of the importance of the fatty parts like marrow and brain is the fact that we went to such great length to get it when we often left the muscle meat for the dogs. Cats and dogs will always go for the brain and marrow first if they can get to it. It's sad that we don't really have data on the nutrient profile of marrow, we can only guess that it's some of the most nutrient-rich food available on earth.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 15, 2010
at 02:10 AM

I htink the jury is still out on marrow. Fat would have been super impt to paleos as wild animals are lower in fat and native populations work hard to get fat. We know marrow is high in fat. We don't if it has lots of other things or not.

3
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 14, 2010
at 05:42 PM

I plugged the following into ND:

  • 200g of beef liver
  • 4 xl eggs
  • 160g of pink salmon
  • can o' sardines (100g)
  • Quart of milk
  • 2 large sweet potatos (180g)

Super basic, covers almost everything except vit E & K, and it's only 1800 cals, so there's room for extra goodies. I have various permutations of this with different meats and seafood with roughly the same micronutrient profile. You'd prolly replace the liver if you don't like it and milk with cheese for calcium if you're afraid of it for whatever reason. Or you can eat a can of salmon with the bones (900mg of calcium).

If you're willing to tolerate say half a can of spinach (thanks David Moss!) it gets ridiculously easy to satisfy stuff like Mg, if you're lazy about choosing the proper animal products.

This leaves Vit E and K (if you really hate veggies that much). In which case, I suppose grass-fed butter/dairy should cover you pretty well with K2. I'm not so sure about vit E. My example above had >50% of the RDA. Most sources of Vit E don't really fit your list of foods. Based on this wiki article (oh so scientific), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_E_deficiency I wouldn't bat an eyelid about it. So yeah, you're pretty much all set as long as you don't mind a little dairy and don't mind adding a little bit of seafood, which generally has superior nutrition.

On a related note, if you like oysters, those things are like a friggin' supplement.

8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 15, 2010
at 10:41 AM

Nuts are high in Vitamin E. They're not seeds, nuts are fruit (according to the botanical definition). Avocados apparently are a good source of Vitamin K. But menaquinone-4 (Vitamin K2) is in meat, eggs and dairy. Although maybe it's higher in grass-fed.

8287c6ddae0d78eae0a09fdd5999617c

(2581)

on August 15, 2010
at 10:40 AM

Nuts are high in Vitamin E. They're not seeds, nuts are fruit (according to the botanical definition). Avocados apparently are a good source of Vitamin K. But menaquinone-4 (Vitamin K2) is in meat, eggs and dairy so I wonder why it came up short on Fitday.

3
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 14, 2010
at 05:14 PM

If you take your items and plug them into a program like fitday (fitday.com) it will show you how you compared to the RDAs and what you are missing. However, I don't think RDAs necessarily apply to carnivores, because I think that eating carbs actually depletes nutrition, and so the RDAs are inflated.

For example, people who don't eat carbohydrates don't get scurvy, even if they don't meet the RDA for vitamin C. There is evidence that vitamin C competes with glucose for uptake, so that may be the mechanism.

Because of this, including yams might actually be a detriment to your total nutrient profile.

You might want to include some organs now and then. They are extremely vitamin rich.

ETA: There is a thread on getting all required nutrients on the Dirty Carnivore Forum that you might find interesting.

2
Af842c68e3d07fa0e35b4274f3acaeec

on August 14, 2010
at 05:21 PM

Tubers can contain some of the same antinutrients as other vegetables. Vegetables contain more than just tons of nutrients, they also contain phytonutrients, and other substances that promote health. Yes, some have certain levels of things like goitrogenic compunds, but the benefit to eating green vegetables FAR outweighs the costs. The best way to do this is do switch up the type of veggies you eat periodically, to diversify the toxin load(however low it may be) and to make sure you're not missing out on any nutrients.

As for vitamin/mineral deficiencies, I recommend you go to fitday.com and plug in your food to see any deficiencies.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 14, 2010
at 10:21 PM

What evidence do you have that the benefits of eating vegetables outweigh the costs?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on August 15, 2010
at 12:28 AM

See above comment :)

Af842c68e3d07fa0e35b4274f3acaeec

on August 15, 2010
at 08:37 PM

Well, the costs of eating vegetables...small amounts of some compounds that can inhibit the absorption of certain minerals, slight insulin response. That's the only things I can think off that are detrimental;the toxin load can be dealt with my switching up the types of veggies, as Robb Wolf has recommended, and if you're eating tubers, you're already getting a much larger insulin load. The benefits of eating veggies: extremely high nutrient density, soluble fiber which promotes gut flora, anti-cancer attributes. I don't understand why you would completely take out non-starchy vegetables

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 12, 2012
at 12:12 AM

Insulin load is non-issue in healthy active people. What vitamins are "veggies" denser in than a yam? Why is chicken+ broccoli better than chicken and yam. You are repeating yourselves while not answering the question.

0
1e68c6909db3ce6c272a7a0bf2c2978b

on August 15, 2010
at 10:03 AM

Definitely agree with the comments on organ meat from time to time, also bone broth might be a decent addition? Just keep the bones of all those fluffy animals you eat and make stock... makes the next bunch of fluffy animals even tastier!

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on August 16, 2010
at 03:41 PM

It's... So... FLUFFY!!!

0
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on August 15, 2010
at 03:01 AM

Prob is that most of the magnesium is boiled into the water when you cook spinach. Estimates are that 60 to 90 percent of magnesium ends up in the water (plus many other nutrients). Magnesium is very water soluable and even more so at higher temps. So you will need to drink the cooking water or do a soup with it. Or you could eat it raw, but then there is a lot of oxalic acid which binds to calcium and increases calcium needs and calcium intake may already be low on a paleo diet.

Of course, the salmon provides a fair amount of magnesium. But to get that much magnesium, ie to meet your mg RDAs, you might need to eat salmon and spinach daily and that would mean astronomically high amounts of vit A from the spinach, which might be a concern, since it supposedly competes with vit D. PLus eating liver would be even more vit A.

Really, the whole vitamin thing is so tricky and each vitamin and mineral interacts with the others. For you super nerds check out this pile of complexity: http://www.acu-cell.com/acn.html I don't think it's safe to say that we know for sure that paleo eaters need any more or less of any of the nutrients. The science is just not there. I read one article about some ancient innuit bodies that were discovered that had hardened arteries and osteoporosis.

Just because a group is able to survive and live fairly well and better than those of us on SAD does not mean that is the ideal diet for humans. If you look at the human body, it looks a lot more like a tropics based creature than a polar one. A tropical creature likely ate fruit and veggies along with meat. Besides, as far as I know, none of us will be replicating any of the ancient diets EXACTLY. Therefore, we could easily leave out a food item that added specific very much needed nutrients to that diet.

Also keep in mind that phytic acid is not the only thing that leaches calcium. Oxalic acid, like in chocolate, and phosphorous, like in a typical paleo diet, also pull calcium out of the system. And there are typically no obvious signs of calcium deficiency at first because the body just quietly removes calcium from the bones if it needs more. Therefore, I think it wise to keep calcium intake at decent levels. If you want to be fully paleo, you can easily do this by eating cartilage and small bones daily.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on August 15, 2010
at 05:20 AM

No interest in recreation. I'm very panu/evolutionary metabolism

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