4

votes

Paleo Summit Hack-a-thon: Matt Stone, 2/28

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 28, 2012 at 2:44 AM

What: The Paleo Summit (see also this post)

Who: Matt Stone ??? Independent Health Researcher

Topic: Matt Stone Debunks The Paleo Diet. Is the Paleo diet a short-term fix? Are there any long-term side effects stemming from this way of eating? Matt Stone thinks so. Find out why Matt believes that claims regarding carb-induced insulin resistance are no more than a ???scientific fairy tale???. And learn how Matt has been able to help people recover their health on a diet high in starches ??? sometimes with grains and refined sugars!.

What did you think of Matt's presentation?

3dc940ac9be21e45cf83207814c8cd46

(544)

on March 06, 2012
at 06:58 PM

Me too...re the dandruff! As well as no acid reflux and throbbing OA inflammation at all! :)

3dc940ac9be21e45cf83207814c8cd46

(544)

on March 06, 2012
at 06:49 PM

YES! well said!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:42 PM

@ Melissa - I have just checked out your website. I wanted to contact you but the page was closed. Anyway, please listen to me - DO NOT USE THAT ORANGE TEA KETTLE you are currently using. DO NOT HEAT ANY PLASTIC. DO NOT FREEZE ANY PLASTIC. Warning - breast cancer.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on March 01, 2012
at 11:41 PM

You have to look carefully at the studies and the sources of information. I have a MS in education and a great majority of the studies are "tweacked" and unreliable (and written by some big names too) - so you need to carefully examine the evidence and it takes oodles of time. I listened to a lecture by a Harvard professor (in human biology) on the role of nutrition, esp. cooking in brain development. Although I do not agree with 100% of everything he said, he made more logic than Matt.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on March 01, 2012
at 11:36 PM

I read John Hawks blog, does that make me an anthropologist?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on March 01, 2012
at 11:35 PM

Melissa - cultural or bio?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 01, 2012
at 10:20 PM

VB, I am in an anthropology grad program and the evidence is definitely uneven. It's kind of hilarious for you to tell me to look things up in a textbook, esp considering those are already outdated. I have hundreds of papers, some showing that ag transition led to worse health, but others are not so consistant and after the ag transition many populations enjoyed more robust health than in the Paleolithic.

C79a5b43dfc5749200bd9dcaa6bb0858

on March 01, 2012
at 10:15 PM

There is a low carb cruise? That defies all known laws of the universe.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 01, 2012
at 12:39 AM

hey wait, DFH, I'm one of those people.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 01, 2012
at 12:38 AM

+1 VB, best rant of the summit

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 29, 2012
at 07:27 PM

Yes, I did. And I am still upset about his ignorance.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 29, 2012
at 07:21 PM

To Dylan - anthropology is a theory of history? This is news to me. I always thought it was human biology. Every scientific hypothesis is just a theory till it is proven, even that 1+1 equals 2. There are enough fossils to prove things, there is enough evidence and even though there are some problems that are unanswered yet, but the same goes for math. After all, they are still working on Hilbert's problems and there are so many others. I am not saying I am right, but I want people to at least know the basics!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 29, 2012
at 07:13 PM

@ Meilissa - I am not an anthropologist (yet) but I did take courses and I still own the textbooks. I am going to list the textbooks with the answers so you can look it up if you want to. Anthropology by William Haviland, University of Vermont. Chapters 6 - 12, Chapter 17. Biological Anthropology by Stanford, Allen and Anton, Chapters 11- 15. The answer to your question is on page 505, "Agriculture and Nutritional Deficiency". I cannot give you a short summary of it, sorry. But believe me - the is enough evidence to conclude that agriculture caused nutritional stress.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 29, 2012
at 04:31 AM

I didn't mean to imply that she was on a paleo diet. No he never said that. He took someone who was 60 pound overweight and left her 60 pounds overweight and declared victory. That's the problem I have with him.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on February 29, 2012
at 04:15 AM

the person in this example may not have been eating a paleo diet- all he said is that she was low carb for 4 years and taking pharmaceuticals.

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc

(3280)

on February 29, 2012
at 02:01 AM

Right on, Nance!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 29, 2012
at 12:45 AM

@Caleb, I was pretty surprised when my dandruff went away, because I had had it so long and I was unaware that it might tie to something like wheat. I don't miss it at all!

464e1c66609d402615ae2b3cf72d53fb

(1472)

on February 29, 2012
at 12:42 AM

And Jimmy agrees with him. I had a bizarre email exchange with Mr. Moore and promptly cancelled my low carb cruise reservation right after that. Sorry, but you don't get to make up your own facts.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 29, 2012
at 12:15 AM

mhm. I was telling my mate that for a paleo scientist, the summit may not always offer a lot. But for a lay person, it can. Example, Dr. Bryan;s talk. Who knew that my dandruff may be related to my leaky gut still healing? Not so with Matt Stone, IMO.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:40 PM

A few moons ago, there was some religious dude on the Living La Vida Low Carb show, who claimed to debunk the Paleo Diet because the earth is only 5000 years old. I think I'd rather listen to him as he was a more entertaining source of fiction. :)

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:39 PM

A few moons ago, there was some religious dude on the Living La Vida Low Carb show, who claimed to debunk the Paleo Diet becaused the earth is only 5000 years old. I think I'd rather listen to him as he was more entertaining. :)

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:28 PM

Oops! I wanted to list Stanton there too. I've never read anything from these guys without learning and knowing I learned.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:26 PM

Yes, you make a strong point. There IS no stability going on here other than the avoidance of highly processed/refined foodlike products. Along with most, I've tweaked on about a monthly basis; in some cases, the tweak was a step back and I reversed myself but in others it was a big step forward. I like opposing views that make me think but I'm with you in preferring the Harris, Kresser, Masterjohn, Bryan, etc., style backed by evidence.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 28, 2012
at 10:35 PM

always well said, Nance. thanks.

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on February 28, 2012
at 09:31 PM

you must be very tired on paleo! Eat some pizza

22424c9eef944ade83d4e4ffda907056

(1402)

on February 28, 2012
at 08:53 PM

Anthropology and math are very different. Anthropology is theory of history and function based on currently existing artifacts and models. It is theoretical in nature and its utility should reflect that, meaning it should not be taken for truth. Math, on the other hand, is a practical application of measures that we created, there's not a whole lot of theory in the lower levels of math. I'm not saying you're wrong, but considering the possibility is a good idea.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 28, 2012
at 08:46 PM

So did you actually listen to it or not?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 28, 2012
at 08:45 PM

He is very biased, but as an anthropologist, don't you agree that the skeletal evidence surrounding the agricultural transition is not as clear-cut as people like Cordain portray it?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 28, 2012
at 08:10 PM

I think I am going to delete a couple of my answers later on... I am way too hyped up about it now. I apologize. I will tone down. But in the name of anthropology I had to say something. Sorry one more time. As for the new diet plan - I feel much better without the fruit, but I need to start making my own nut butters. I have read it somewhere it is okay for ulcer patients and I miss nuts like crazy. Thanks for asking.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 28, 2012
at 08:04 PM

Dylan, I do not care if I am right or wrong. But if somebody says something fundamentally wrong about the love of my life - anthropology, I get very upset. If you want to present an alternative approach - great, I am all for it. Say anything - I won't even make a comment, I will keep my mouth shut. I am pro-alternative. But to misquote basic anthropological research and present it as a sure thing - I am sorry, this is where I draw the line. What would a mathematician say, if somebody would come to him and say: you know, everybody thinks that 1+1 is 2, but I have an alternative approach. WTH?

22424c9eef944ade83d4e4ffda907056

(1402)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:37 PM

I don't understand why you're in such a huff over this. Matt Stone might not be right, but how can you be so certain that you are? He doesn't strike me as particularly righteous, he just wants to present an alternative approach.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:35 PM

Wher did you grow up VB, Tell us more here or on your Profile. Also:the new diet plan working?

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:29 PM

So much for the "Independant Health Researcher!" :)

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:27 PM

A wise history professor once told me "Beware of people who are always right, even when they completely change their minds..." Maybe Stone is one of those people.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:19 PM

Wrong about what, exactly? See my answer below. Not ONE of his so-called facts make sense if you actually took an course in anthropology. I can provide sources in APA format. As for paleo isn't a re-enactment... Korion, I like you but if somebody is going to say this one more time, I am going to shoot you. Why? Because TEN THOUSANDS people around the world still live like that. I know millions of farmers who are actually farmers/gatherers. I live in a country like that. I grew up like that. Don't tell me that MY CHILDHOOD was a re-enactment.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:02 PM

I love Lyle McDonald and have worked some of his programs.

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on February 28, 2012
at 06:36 PM

Lyle Mcdonald has written about the impact of various dietary approaches to weightloss and his basic conclusion was that everything has an equal potential to work, metabolism be damned, until a certain range of BF% (I think around 30 for women and 20 for men) is reached. If you have X amount to lose it may not matter what you do to lose it--up to a point. He also wrote a book promoting low-fat, low-cal keto for rapid weight loss so caveat emptor.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:45 PM

I think that many are so focused on weight loss to the exclusion of all else that it can be problematic but had I been asked to spend a year or three getting my body temp at some level he approved of and my insulin resistance apparently corrected by reaching some magic number but was left weighing 300 lbs I know for certain I would not have considered myself healthy or a success. I'm also pretty sure I never would have lasted a year or three working on getting lab numbers in some range but without any weight loss. THAT is what would be hard for me to stick to.

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on February 28, 2012
at 04:29 PM

time preference: wanting weight-loss now does not equal keeping that weight loss later. Doesn't he say that you have to be able to eat to satiety AND lose weight in order to for it to 'stick.' (if that is at all possible.)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 28, 2012
at 03:38 PM

don't forget folks, if you post an answer without listening to the actual presentation, I will delete your answer.

E34fbfa1bca9ae970c9c7313bf9de9f8

(1436)

on February 28, 2012
at 02:35 PM

wrong about what, exactly? I'm still listening to it, but he makes a lot of sense so far.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on February 28, 2012
at 01:16 PM

I have't seen the presentation yet, but to answer your question : paleo isn't about re-enactment... Natural ≠ Optimal

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17 Answers

14
98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

on February 28, 2012
at 04:20 PM

Perfect illustration of the problem of Matt Stone's philosophy (paraphrasing):

Matt: See I fixed her and now she's perfect! Sean: But she's still 60 lbs overweight Matt: That's ok. She's perfectly healthy and all her other numbers are perfect so I have fixed her. Yay me!

If you are o.k. with working hard to become "perfectly healthy" but remaining significantly overweight or becoming even more overweight than when you started and can be brainwashed into thinking that the extra weight doesn't matter then I think I think he may be a good option for you. Otherwise I'm not so sure.

Matt seems to be a decent guy who is passionate about his beliefs and truly wants to help people. He seems to be a very likeable guy. I just think he's misguided.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:45 PM

I think that many are so focused on weight loss to the exclusion of all else that it can be problematic but had I been asked to spend a year or three getting my body temp at some level he approved of and my insulin resistance apparently corrected by reaching some magic number but was left weighing 300 lbs I know for certain I would not have considered myself healthy or a success. I'm also pretty sure I never would have lasted a year or three working on getting lab numbers in some range but without any weight loss. THAT is what would be hard for me to stick to.

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on February 28, 2012
at 04:29 PM

time preference: wanting weight-loss now does not equal keeping that weight loss later. Doesn't he say that you have to be able to eat to satiety AND lose weight in order to for it to 'stick.' (if that is at all possible.)

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 29, 2012
at 04:31 AM

I didn't mean to imply that she was on a paleo diet. No he never said that. He took someone who was 60 pound overweight and left her 60 pounds overweight and declared victory. That's the problem I have with him.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on February 29, 2012
at 04:15 AM

the person in this example may not have been eating a paleo diet- all he said is that she was low carb for 4 years and taking pharmaceuticals.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:02 PM

I love Lyle McDonald and have worked some of his programs.

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on February 28, 2012
at 06:36 PM

Lyle Mcdonald has written about the impact of various dietary approaches to weightloss and his basic conclusion was that everything has an equal potential to work, metabolism be damned, until a certain range of BF% (I think around 30 for women and 20 for men) is reached. If you have X amount to lose it may not matter what you do to lose it--up to a point. He also wrote a book promoting low-fat, low-cal keto for rapid weight loss so caveat emptor.

13
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 28, 2012
at 08:18 PM

It seems legit to offer my n=1 responses; many are diametrically opposed to his "outcomes" talking points of what supposedly happens after 6 months of paleo:

  • paleo did not shut down my ability to think outside the box; if anything, it set it free
  • my ability to recognize and listen to my body's signals exploded in intensity rather than fading
  • his statement that we should use more than just evolutionary info is fine and I think we already do
  • he seems to think change always equals improvement; I don't, otherwise why do we say it's important to lose from your mistakes?
  • my dark, puffy eye circles went away
  • my sleep improved
  • no return of (my many documented) autoimmune issues after 10 months
  • hands and feet are finally warm for the first time
  • for the first time I am NOT suffering from anxiety in the absence of acute stress
  • (I agree some diets work short term but may fail over the long haul)

I found his "listen to your body" piece the most valid and had no serious disagreements and I basically agree with his warning to avoid evangelism/dogmatism--but I'm not sure he's following his own advice.

I was ready to stop listening at the 12-minute mark but forced myself to keep going. He never came out and said so but I think he believes that short-term improvements are really hormesis and not directly due to what you're eating since he believes that you can reverse the changes later and achieve positive reactions again.

Current evidence does support his statement that it's possible to be both overweight and healthy, but the odds of being in the healthy group aren't that great as I understand it. I also agree that "dieting" is neutral at best and harmful at worst--but that's not what we do here. We preach against it. And he seems positively inclined toward IF.

I STRONGLY disagree that you have to get healthy before you can lose weight; that may be partially true to avoid rebound weight gain though--I think you need to lose and work toward health simultaneously. I also don't agree that you should avoid forcing your fat off--forcing isn't the word I choose but I do think you need to "shake up" or "shock" your metabolism (think IF, ADF, leptin reset, etc.) to reset it for sustained weight loss.

Okay, he's still got 20 minutes to go and I just can't do any more. Over and out.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 28, 2012
at 10:35 PM

always well said, Nance. thanks.

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc

(3280)

on February 29, 2012
at 02:01 AM

Right on, Nance!

3dc940ac9be21e45cf83207814c8cd46

(544)

on March 06, 2012
at 06:49 PM

YES! well said!

10
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:14 PM

Okay, as a person who has took a bunch of anthropology courses and continues to read on the subject (biological anthropology to be exact), MATT STONE has no leg to stand on.

The problem is that he is not just wrong. We all can be wrong about a thing or two, that does not really matter. The problem is HE IS FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG.

I am sorry, I try not to be negative, but my blood boils when I think of this guy. And just to think that we are all listening to this [email protected]???

Okay, let me spell it out for you:

  1. He is wrong about the way he presents human evolution.
  2. He is wrong about the cause of the advent of the agriculture.
  3. He is wrong about animal protein consumption that lead to development of our species.
  4. He is wrong how he presents the use of fire and the ramifications of that. Neanderthals used fire. He cannot claim things he does not know without citing legitimate sources!!!
  5. He is wrong about the reasons why people are tall now and got shorter when the agriculture was developed.
  6. He is wrong about the population explosion when humans became farmers. He does not name the real reason for it. This is like Anthopology 101!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Basic stuff!!!!!
  7. He is wrong about Weston Price research. Has he even read Weston Price or is it a deliberate lie?

I can write a paper 100 pages long stating the obvious facts that he is wrong about. But I don't have the time in my life for this.

Dear Beth,

Next time you want me to go into a deep rage, please post something by David Wolfe.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 28, 2012
at 08:04 PM

Dylan, I do not care if I am right or wrong. But if somebody says something fundamentally wrong about the love of my life - anthropology, I get very upset. If you want to present an alternative approach - great, I am all for it. Say anything - I won't even make a comment, I will keep my mouth shut. I am pro-alternative. But to misquote basic anthropological research and present it as a sure thing - I am sorry, this is where I draw the line. What would a mathematician say, if somebody would come to him and say: you know, everybody thinks that 1+1 is 2, but I have an alternative approach. WTH?

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:27 PM

A wise history professor once told me "Beware of people who are always right, even when they completely change their minds..." Maybe Stone is one of those people.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 28, 2012
at 08:45 PM

He is very biased, but as an anthropologist, don't you agree that the skeletal evidence surrounding the agricultural transition is not as clear-cut as people like Cordain portray it?

22424c9eef944ade83d4e4ffda907056

(1402)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:37 PM

I don't understand why you're in such a huff over this. Matt Stone might not be right, but how can you be so certain that you are? He doesn't strike me as particularly righteous, he just wants to present an alternative approach.

22424c9eef944ade83d4e4ffda907056

(1402)

on February 28, 2012
at 08:53 PM

Anthropology and math are very different. Anthropology is theory of history and function based on currently existing artifacts and models. It is theoretical in nature and its utility should reflect that, meaning it should not be taken for truth. Math, on the other hand, is a practical application of measures that we created, there's not a whole lot of theory in the lower levels of math. I'm not saying you're wrong, but considering the possibility is a good idea.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 29, 2012
at 07:13 PM

@ Meilissa - I am not an anthropologist (yet) but I did take courses and I still own the textbooks. I am going to list the textbooks with the answers so you can look it up if you want to. Anthropology by William Haviland, University of Vermont. Chapters 6 - 12, Chapter 17. Biological Anthropology by Stanford, Allen and Anton, Chapters 11- 15. The answer to your question is on page 505, "Agriculture and Nutritional Deficiency". I cannot give you a short summary of it, sorry. But believe me - the is enough evidence to conclude that agriculture caused nutritional stress.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on March 01, 2012
at 10:20 PM

VB, I am in an anthropology grad program and the evidence is definitely uneven. It's kind of hilarious for you to tell me to look things up in a textbook, esp considering those are already outdated. I have hundreds of papers, some showing that ag transition led to worse health, but others are not so consistant and after the ag transition many populations enjoyed more robust health than in the Paleolithic.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 01, 2012
at 12:38 AM

+1 VB, best rant of the summit

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 29, 2012
at 07:21 PM

To Dylan - anthropology is a theory of history? This is news to me. I always thought it was human biology. Every scientific hypothesis is just a theory till it is proven, even that 1+1 equals 2. There are enough fossils to prove things, there is enough evidence and even though there are some problems that are unanswered yet, but the same goes for math. After all, they are still working on Hilbert's problems and there are so many others. I am not saying I am right, but I want people to at least know the basics!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on March 01, 2012
at 11:36 PM

I read John Hawks blog, does that make me an anthropologist?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on March 01, 2012
at 12:39 AM

hey wait, DFH, I'm one of those people.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on March 01, 2012
at 11:35 PM

Melissa - cultural or bio?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:42 PM

@ Melissa - I have just checked out your website. I wanted to contact you but the page was closed. Anyway, please listen to me - DO NOT USE THAT ORANGE TEA KETTLE you are currently using. DO NOT HEAT ANY PLASTIC. DO NOT FREEZE ANY PLASTIC. Warning - breast cancer.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on March 01, 2012
at 11:41 PM

You have to look carefully at the studies and the sources of information. I have a MS in education and a great majority of the studies are "tweacked" and unreliable (and written by some big names too) - so you need to carefully examine the evidence and it takes oodles of time. I listened to a lecture by a Harvard professor (in human biology) on the role of nutrition, esp. cooking in brain development. Although I do not agree with 100% of everything he said, he made more logic than Matt.

5
Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 28, 2012
at 10:30 PM

Okay, I'll add my two bits. I applaud Sean for having an alternative. For those of us hoping to never be paleovangelists, I think it is good to hear alternative arguments.

That said, Mr Stone made me raise my eyebrows. Anyone who says "obviously" and "clearly" that much seems to be wanting things to be clear or obvious when they maybe aren't. Example, from around 10 minutes in, (paraphrasing) "Obviously having agriculture when things weren't going so well was a good thing" -- without considering that it may have been a steady food source, but that doesn't mean it is a good food source.

Secondly, the problems he says he's seen with patients -- body temperature, autoimmune issues, etc -- I only see anecdotal evidence. Personally, I'd like science. Someone like Dr. O'Bryan was able to point to studies. (I actually want to contact him to find some of these papers on gluten issues to pass on to family).

Third, paleo ideology is very in-line with a lot of what I already think. It's also lowered my BS meter even further. I get that for some of us that it is a part of identity, but I don't see how that it leads to not making adjustments to diet "six months in". How many of us have fiddled around with the amount of carbs, or types of fat, etc, so that we keep feeling our best?

Fourth, I question his understand of epigenetics or genetics. Yes, we can adapt. But just because we can adapt doesn't mean we should adapt, to a point. We were adapted to SAD, but it wasn't ideal. Here, like with my other points, correlation does not imply causation.

I don't mind paleo criticism, but personally, I'd like some sounder logic. It seems to me that he has an overly simplistic view of paleo as something static, rather than a dynamic, day-in, day-out approach to what we put in our bodies.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 29, 2012
at 12:45 AM

@Caleb, I was pretty surprised when my dandruff went away, because I had had it so long and I was unaware that it might tie to something like wheat. I don't miss it at all!

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:28 PM

Oops! I wanted to list Stanton there too. I've never read anything from these guys without learning and knowing I learned.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:26 PM

Yes, you make a strong point. There IS no stability going on here other than the avoidance of highly processed/refined foodlike products. Along with most, I've tweaked on about a monthly basis; in some cases, the tweak was a step back and I reversed myself but in others it was a big step forward. I like opposing views that make me think but I'm with you in preferring the Harris, Kresser, Masterjohn, Bryan, etc., style backed by evidence.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 29, 2012
at 12:15 AM

mhm. I was telling my mate that for a paleo scientist, the summit may not always offer a lot. But for a lay person, it can. Example, Dr. Bryan;s talk. Who knew that my dandruff may be related to my leaky gut still healing? Not so with Matt Stone, IMO.

3dc940ac9be21e45cf83207814c8cd46

(544)

on March 06, 2012
at 06:58 PM

Me too...re the dandruff! As well as no acid reflux and throbbing OA inflammation at all! :)

5
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on February 28, 2012
at 10:29 PM

I lasted 10 min. Won't waste my time.

3
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 29, 2012
at 02:07 PM

OMG, I just couldn't take another minute listening to this crap after he got into the story of the woman who was doing so well, but still was 60 lbs overweight, but hey, that's OK cause she's "healthy". People can fault Kruse and Jaminet for pulling stuff out of their a$$es, and they might not agree with them, but at least you can tell that they have both thought hard about it. Rather than hearing Matt go on and on about her, I kept drifting to the imaginary presentation where either Jaminet or Kruse would talk about their recommendations for this woman. My attention never returned to this presentation.

3
A0f2f0f632d42215944a798486bddde1

(1377)

on February 29, 2012
at 01:41 AM

I (for one, it seems) got a lot out of his presentation. He essentially encouraged an open mind and paying attention to your body; most of his "debunking Paleo" was aimed at the tenets of low-carb Paleo, which certainly doesn't include all of us here. The only other "anti-Paleo" idea he put out there was that eliminating certain foods isn't always necessary and may sometimes be detrimental. He even advocated low-carb and IF near the end.

There are a bunch of small statements you could quibble with, but for the most part what he's saying isn't too radical. Here are the points I agreed with:

  • Pay attention to your body; don't let the logic (or dogma) of a diet overrule your individual response.
  • Short-term weight loss protocols often lead to stress & re-gaining weight. Focus on optimizing your health, then chose safe, slow methods to eliminate excess weight.
  • Eliminating large food groups from the diet can cause personal and social stress, which can exacerbate health problems.
  • Carbohydrates can be beneficial, while low-carb can be harmful in the long run. (Kurt Harris & the Jaminets have educated us about the benefits of starches, which Stone recommends over grains, and there is a lot of data out there showing negative long-term consequences of low-carb dieting)
  • There are positive aspects to both low-carb and high-carb diets, especially when used in the short term.

That's the "what not do to" section; as for the "what to do" section, he seemed to focus mainly on rebuilding metabolism, although he didn't get into specifics (I assume that's where the book comes in). I'm not 100% sold on the theory, mainly because I didn't get much data to back it up, but there seem to be a few prominent people in the post-Paleo community championing the thyroid/metabolism idea, so there's probably something to it. As he says near the end, it can't hurt to give it a shot. Despite the fact that Matt Stone would personally profit from us buying his book (just like most people on the summit), he came across as well-spoken, well-intentioned, and very reasonable (although his blog may be a different story). I'm glad he was a part of the convention.

3
E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on February 28, 2012
at 12:32 PM

Stone is wrong.

How did this guy makes the speakers list?

Paleo people ate refined sugar too? We are adapted to thrive on what Matt Stone says?

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:29 PM

So much for the "Independant Health Researcher!" :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:35 PM

Wher did you grow up VB, Tell us more here or on your Profile. Also:the new diet plan working?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on February 28, 2012
at 01:16 PM

I have't seen the presentation yet, but to answer your question : paleo isn't about re-enactment... Natural ≠ Optimal

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 28, 2012
at 08:46 PM

So did you actually listen to it or not?

E34fbfa1bca9ae970c9c7313bf9de9f8

(1436)

on February 28, 2012
at 02:35 PM

wrong about what, exactly? I'm still listening to it, but he makes a lot of sense so far.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:19 PM

Wrong about what, exactly? See my answer below. Not ONE of his so-called facts make sense if you actually took an course in anthropology. I can provide sources in APA format. As for paleo isn't a re-enactment... Korion, I like you but if somebody is going to say this one more time, I am going to shoot you. Why? Because TEN THOUSANDS people around the world still live like that. I know millions of farmers who are actually farmers/gatherers. I live in a country like that. I grew up like that. Don't tell me that MY CHILDHOOD was a re-enactment.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 28, 2012
at 08:10 PM

I think I am going to delete a couple of my answers later on... I am way too hyped up about it now. I apologize. I will tone down. But in the name of anthropology I had to say something. Sorry one more time. As for the new diet plan - I feel much better without the fruit, but I need to start making my own nut butters. I have read it somewhere it is okay for ulcer patients and I miss nuts like crazy. Thanks for asking.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 29, 2012
at 07:27 PM

Yes, I did. And I am still upset about his ignorance.

2
37d5f39209d102473197de2943a70904

(130)

on July 11, 2012
at 01:31 AM

The problem with Stone is that part of his "schtick" is his being haughtily dismissive of all other diets, approaches, labels, names, etc, save a few. As someone noted above, when it came down to it, very few of his "paleo myths" addressed anything authentically paleo and in the end agrees with much. And this, thus, is what bugs me about Mr Stone and few others in the blogosphere: what contribution they may make/could make is greatly overshadowed by the ill-will, unproductive controversy, and confusion they seem determined to create simply to increase traffic and carve their niche.

2
E33964ac61c76f5d606ba1200bb3add9

on March 01, 2012
at 10:09 PM

I agree with Dan. Matt's presentation was interesting, informative and made good points. Further research on his website interested me enough to buy his ebook (only $20). I'm a fast reader and am almost finished. My take away is that he's a Paleo advocate but rather than going 80/20, he prefers 60/40. I've actually come to find some of the problems he's descirbed (I've been Paleo for a few years with period breaks due to being out at sea for the summers) and have had some of negative side effects. I'm not going to start chowing down on bagels and pasta tomorrow, but it's definitely knocked me out of my 'Paleo is perfect' attitude. Back to Kurt Harris' agnostic ways.

2
1805757a5926dffa9ef875a81725e078

(20)

on February 28, 2012
at 09:53 PM

It's great to be skeptical, but he makes broad, sweeping statements apparently based on what? Theres is certainly lots of room for critique in the paleo world and I'm comfortable with the questions he asks. I'm less excited with the answers he feels compelled to provide based on his personal observations. As I said in the Paleo Summit comments, I sometimes get the feeling (from some glimpses at his website) that he's more of a contrarian than and genuinely innovative thinker.

1
F4d04667059bc682540fdfd8b40f13a7

on March 08, 2012
at 11:01 PM

I've just listed to this tslk - I forced myself to listen to the whole thing. The other talks have had science, logic and studies to back-up their findings. Matt Stone just seems to have anecdotal "evidence".

He seems to be debunking Paleo as a diet that adheres to strict macro nutrient ratios (mainly low-carb); I just don't think that is what Paleo is. None of the Paleo folk I;ve met are that dogmatic about their diet.

Come back with science, logic and a proposed "alternative" to Paleo - and I'll listen.

1
3dc940ac9be21e45cf83207814c8cd46

(544)

on March 06, 2012
at 08:29 PM

It seems to me that what we have here is a young guy, trying to find his niche in the health services world, which means for any entrepreneur, being different, having a different perspective.

I am a 60 year old professional person who only discovered in her 59th year that her now-throbbing OA and digestive issues are grain-related and sugar-related. I continue to have dairy and have the ideal local source of the best in milk, yogurt and Gouda cheese, so I keep it in my foodway and try not overdo it (struggle=issue?). Like everyone in these discussions, this is what I need and what works for me personally. I haven't checked but I have not heard any reports where, for example, replacing grains and legumes with a variety of other plant foods is unhealthy. Another anecdote: A few people have asked me about what I did re the OA and when I told them about food changes I've made, they decided to try it too. Each person has experienced notable lessening of inflammation.

I am still on a journey to feeling fully healthy (sinusitis!), and I thank the communities of people on this and MDA for helping me to re-think my choices and to find my own path to being where I am now.

1
B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on February 29, 2012
at 04:23 AM

another talk filled with "ya know". the message i took from him is that low carb is bad and people should not be too invested in how they approach eating because their needs will continually change. oddly, he seems very invested in "low carbs is bad".

1
24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 28, 2012
at 01:19 PM

Dunno if I'll get to live blog on this one. It's quite long too -- kudos to Sean for airing an alternate view.

I think it's worth a listen. The best part was Matt discussing how this fallacy that carbs cause IR has been perpetuated. I just wish he had backed that with some of the evidence rather than an anecdotal account.

Matt's gone a little woo woo of late with the RBTI stuff. Thankfully that is not discussed here.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:39 PM

A few moons ago, there was some religious dude on the Living La Vida Low Carb show, who claimed to debunk the Paleo Diet becaused the earth is only 5000 years old. I think I'd rather listen to him as he was more entertaining. :)

464e1c66609d402615ae2b3cf72d53fb

(1472)

on February 29, 2012
at 12:42 AM

And Jimmy agrees with him. I had a bizarre email exchange with Mr. Moore and promptly cancelled my low carb cruise reservation right after that. Sorry, but you don't get to make up your own facts.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on February 28, 2012
at 11:40 PM

A few moons ago, there was some religious dude on the Living La Vida Low Carb show, who claimed to debunk the Paleo Diet because the earth is only 5000 years old. I think I'd rather listen to him as he was a more entertaining source of fiction. :)

C79a5b43dfc5749200bd9dcaa6bb0858

on March 01, 2012
at 10:15 PM

There is a low carb cruise? That defies all known laws of the universe.

0
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on February 29, 2012
at 07:59 AM

Hard to click on the button to watch this one. However my take away is I may visit Ray Peats web site a bit more.

0
725220a3fc595fbb5d96e71bfd690695

(254)

on February 28, 2012
at 09:04 PM

Meh.....yawn, yawn!

35a8b223ae5d863f17a8c9e3a8eed5eb

(571)

on February 28, 2012
at 09:31 PM

you must be very tired on paleo! Eat some pizza

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