8

votes

more carbs, less carbs for immune health

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 10, 2012 at 9:47 PM

so jaminet & others say some amount of carbs (glucose) is needed for immune health. we all know that active people need more carbs, and probably even plenty of fructose to stay healthy.

yes, ray peat makes plenty of sense when you try out his ideas, and practically they are not that far off from what kresser, jaminet, and some others think. (offal, shellfish, coconut oil, grass fed meats & broths, fat soluble vitamins, pro-anabolic/youth hormones anti-stress pro-thyroid pro-immune system)

(lustig doesn't count in my book because i can't take anti-sugar advice from an obese man)

jaminet also says that ketosis is useful for some problems, and that only by seeing how you feel during ketosis will give a level of diagnosis about what possible infections you may have.

my question is, if carbs help the immune system, and ketosis also seems to help the immune system in some cases, do we as a culture have a list of what kinds of health issues are helped by ketosis, and which are helped by more carbs?

is there a useful list of types of chronic infections somewhere? can we generate a useful list?

6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

(1169)

on June 20, 2013
at 08:21 AM

Lustig is not obese. Do a google search of images of him. Looks slim to me. http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://secondopinion-tv.org/panelist/robert-h-lustig-md&h=0&w=0&sz=1&tbnid=0y9AdlURzhwJVM&tbnh=251&tbnw=201&zoom=1&docid=8E9QpAfdricIEM

97c04f87a752ff0a5cf6be9d806c0334

(888)

on July 13, 2012
at 03:06 PM

Where is this data coming from? Just go on reddit.com/r/keto and you'll see plenty of cases where people have cut their body fat well below 20%. I'm going to continue low carbing for the rest of my life because I don't fancy overworking my pancreas until I have to start injecting myself with insulin. There are certainly anecdotes about people who do keto and fail to see results. We're all different. So far there is no cure for insulin sensitivity, but I think low-carb/keto is definitely a step in the right direction for those suffering from it.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:49 PM

until what point? if someone is like, 50% bodyfat, then loweringa carbs will probably work well down to about maybe 25% bodyfat. something around there. but there are so many anectdotes about people who go very low carb, enough to be ketogenic, and do not lose any more weight, feel rubbish etc. i agree that low carb is probably necessary for very obese people. but ppl still need to retrain insulin sensitivity, not villify carbs forever. there are plenty of diabetics who smartly cured themselves using carbs.

97c04f87a752ff0a5cf6be9d806c0334

(888)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:44 AM

Not 100%, but it's a way to get around and treat type 2 diabetes by switching to fat for most of your energy rather than carbs. Can you show me more evidence to support your second assertion? So many people, including myself, have found success with low carbing for weight loss.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:32 AM

right, having 2 chins is totally not obese.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:31 AM

do you actually think low carbing prevents diabetes? sorry man, youre mistaken. perhaps low carbing does help people lose lots of water weight and some minimal fat weight until the honeymoon is over, and then your thyroid down regulates and holds onto weight.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on July 11, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Lustig is not obese!

7e13e284a1bafd7b4de14a50ee96140c

(322)

on July 10, 2012
at 11:48 PM

I recently did keto-paleo for 2 months and i got toe nail fungus back :O Now back to paleo with moderate carbs and my mood is so much better.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on July 10, 2012
at 10:20 PM

Some very interesting stuff here http://www.lucastafur.com/search/label/Nutritional%20immunotherapy

3ab5e1b9eba22a071f653330b7fc9579

(2262)

on July 10, 2012
at 09:55 PM

I have never heard about the immune/carb paradox before, I do not have an answer for you but I am extremely interested to see what other people come up with

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3 Answers

1
97c04f87a752ff0a5cf6be9d806c0334

(888)

on July 10, 2012
at 10:13 PM

I'm actually very curious about this as well. Right now I'm doing the Keto diet, and have been generally low-carbing for the past year. I've also recently been diagnosed with Tinea Versicolor, a skin fungus. Apparently this fungus thrives on ketones for energy, which explains why low-carb dieters are sometimes afflicted with fungal issues. But it could also be because the immune system does prefer glucose rather than ketones, which could allow the fungus to overpower the immune system in keto/low-carb environment.

I've read that some people have had success with Tinea by consuming varying amounts of glucose or fructose. Of course this isn't an option for people like me who are low-carbing for weight-loss or diabetes prevention.

To answer your question, maybe it has something to do with keto-adaptation or fat-burning-adaptation? Perhaps once our bodies become adapted to the diet, our immune system does as well and learns to become more effective with fat rather than glucose. But whether or not it would be strong enough to defeat a ketone loving fungus? I hope it can be!

7e13e284a1bafd7b4de14a50ee96140c

(322)

on July 10, 2012
at 11:48 PM

I recently did keto-paleo for 2 months and i got toe nail fungus back :O Now back to paleo with moderate carbs and my mood is so much better.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:31 AM

do you actually think low carbing prevents diabetes? sorry man, youre mistaken. perhaps low carbing does help people lose lots of water weight and some minimal fat weight until the honeymoon is over, and then your thyroid down regulates and holds onto weight.

97c04f87a752ff0a5cf6be9d806c0334

(888)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:44 AM

Not 100%, but it's a way to get around and treat type 2 diabetes by switching to fat for most of your energy rather than carbs. Can you show me more evidence to support your second assertion? So many people, including myself, have found success with low carbing for weight loss.

97c04f87a752ff0a5cf6be9d806c0334

(888)

on July 13, 2012
at 03:06 PM

Where is this data coming from? Just go on reddit.com/r/keto and you'll see plenty of cases where people have cut their body fat well below 20%. I'm going to continue low carbing for the rest of my life because I don't fancy overworking my pancreas until I have to start injecting myself with insulin. There are certainly anecdotes about people who do keto and fail to see results. We're all different. So far there is no cure for insulin sensitivity, but I think low-carb/keto is definitely a step in the right direction for those suffering from it.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:49 PM

until what point? if someone is like, 50% bodyfat, then loweringa carbs will probably work well down to about maybe 25% bodyfat. something around there. but there are so many anectdotes about people who go very low carb, enough to be ketogenic, and do not lose any more weight, feel rubbish etc. i agree that low carb is probably necessary for very obese people. but ppl still need to retrain insulin sensitivity, not villify carbs forever. there are plenty of diabetics who smartly cured themselves using carbs.

0
D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on August 26, 2013
at 06:57 AM

I'm also interested in this angle. Up 1. Aside from the increased incidence of hypothyroid symptoms while doing ketosis, could there possibly be immune related aspects? I'm hearing about the high incidence of immunoglobulin deficiency in certain ketogenic dieters. Also that they tend to catch autoimmune diseases more often. Also, that the very low triglycerides, lower than, say 40, is possibly a biomarker of autoimmune pathogenesis.

Just wondering. Could be completely unrelated. But I've been wondering about the low trigs in those who develop autoimmune diseases for a while now. Their levels drop very low, like to 30, which you frequently see in zero-carb dieters. But these are people who're not restricting carbs.

What mechanism could be behind this phenomenon?

0
6fece842bd1bcf5724f458a302a2156e

on June 20, 2013
at 08:26 AM

I virtually never catch germs as I always eat well. I have given up fruit and now have the worst cold I have had for 5 years. I can barely function and it is almost a week into it - stuffed running nose, sore throat, can hardly open my eyes, cannot breath through my nose, asleep by 9 every night and in bed over 10 hours, trying to struggle through work but hardly able to do much, absolutely dreadful.

You would have thought my immunity would be much better these last 4 weeks not worse. Is it something I am missing from the fruit? I am getting a lot of fresh air, sunshine (i.e. vit D), loads of water to drink, masses of sleep and no sugar, dairy, wheat, rice. I am not hungry and not in ketotis (have tested with strips). I am not having no carb as I still have swede, courgettes, peppers, butternut squash etc

First of all I had 3 really dire awful weeks of candida die off which was at its worst on day 21 of no fruit/chocolate and then very shortly after I am now iller with a proper cold germ for the last week. I don't want to introduce fruit again yet until I've stabilised and feel better nor add back sweet potato.

I would be very disappointed if going lower carb (to lose 30 pounds) means I am less healthy and catch every germ going.

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