1

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Leangains vs. PWO Meal?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created September 15, 2012 at 4:56 PM

Hey Guys,

I??m doing Paleo Leangains since about 5 to 6 weeks now (Paleo for over a year), feeling pretty good with it. I have a 8 hour training window, train fasted, then eat HCLF on training days with lots of starchy Veggies, Bananas and such, I try to hit 120 g Protein and not more than 50g Fat, so pretty much clean Leangains Macros, on rest days pretty Low Carb, High Fat, Protein always moderate to high.

My training consists of HIIT, Kettlebell Training, Crossfit-type stuff like thrusters with Kettlebells, Turkish Getups and such, often Zuzana-like Workouts (Bodyrock-type), normally I train about 20-25 minutes.

BTW I??m 5,74", 134 lbs, 23 years old, female. I have seen improvements in Body Composition and Muscle toning, but I am kind of a perfectionist and geek and I wonder:

Is it really neccessary for my kind of training to go HCLF the whole training day or would it be even more beneficial to load the Carbs after the workout (I got a lot more stronger and leaner at the same time with Carbs after training, love it!) and eat normal (low to moderate Carbs, higher fat) the Rest of the day?

I??m trying to get a bit stronger and maybe loose that last bit of lower belly fat that??s clinging so dearly to my body ;)

Thanks in advance!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:36 PM

@Severine - Lot of ways to slice it. It is just that super low carb, and lean gains, and high intensity will probably drive your cortisol thru the roof. Remember Zuzanna had recipes for oatmeal and stuff with apples etc... If you love the HIT stuff or crossfit add some yam and low-fructose fruit and maybe if you aren't stressed play with the leangains. BUT. If you do HIT without carb your body will breakdown muscle because it can't burn fat during HIT. HIT+Carb or BB+VLC are both fine.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:32 PM

@Wisper - Do some research, you don't know what you are talking about. Women preferentially store fat on their legs and butt and their are ways to address this via hormone modulation. The same thing is true regarding Cortisol. Try it. Go VLC, drop calories to 1000 per day and then do crossfit 5x a week. You will almost certainly develop a little gut. It's a normal response to stress.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:22 AM

You can gett here with chicken as well.

Fc891327db916c10347b008acde0daca

(1022)

on September 16, 2012
at 08:46 AM

Thanks for the answer, I think I´ll stick to hclf the whole day then, I eat about 30g of Fat, but will definately look into that, if more fat would be okay also, cause I find it hart to eat that much protein through whole foods without the fat, always tuna is kind lame...

Fc891327db916c10347b008acde0daca

(1022)

on September 16, 2012
at 08:45 AM

Okay, so Bodyrock-type training would be anti-beneficial for me? I always lift weights as well, almost every training day Kettlebell Swings, Thrusts oder so! Interesting thing with the Cortisol, will look into that..

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 16, 2012
at 12:44 AM

Spot fat reduction is a myth.

  • Fc891327db916c10347b008acde0daca

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4 Answers

1
9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 15, 2012
at 06:58 PM

You say "load the Carbs after the workout and eat normal the Rest of the day". But since you train fasted, all your eating on training days is PWO by necessity, so not sure what you're asking. In case you're referring to the anabolic feeding window after training, it lasts for more than one meal or few hours (which is a common myth), and lasts up to 36 hours IIRC.

One of the the main points of LG is to indeed load the carbs after workout. You have the 8-hour (or whatever) window to eat those carbs, but the most important and biggest meal is the one after workout.

Note that low fat in LG terms is 15-30g PWO. I did an experiment comparing less than 30g and 70-90g PWO fat consumption last time I did LG recomp, and didn't see a difference in fat loss. So now I'm not too strict on the low fat part. YMMV. But for your goals (getting stronger) you might benefit from higher fat content than 30g or so due to its hormonal benefits.

37, male, 183cm, 75kg, 15% bf, back on recomp to cut to below 10%. Paleo for over a year, LG for a year.

Fc891327db916c10347b008acde0daca

(1022)

on September 16, 2012
at 08:46 AM

Thanks for the answer, I think I´ll stick to hclf the whole day then, I eat about 30g of Fat, but will definately look into that, if more fat would be okay also, cause I find it hart to eat that much protein through whole foods without the fat, always tuna is kind lame...

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:22 AM

You can gett here with chicken as well.

0
2a845342e3fe499afe0826749c39d4a6

on September 16, 2012
at 09:32 AM

maybe this one can help! http://julialadewski.com/2012/04/carb-back-loading-explained-faq-and-is/

  • Skip breakfast, except for coffee/cream and possibly coconut oil in the morning. If having breakfast, protein and fat.
  • Low carb throughout the day. Load up on good meats and veggies and good fats for lunch and snacks.
  • Push any other carbs until post-workout (after 6pm-ish… which works well for busy moms who just want normal family dinners.) Again, even if you’re training in the morning, or you aren’t training at all that day, you would still see results just by pushing carbs back until evening. I know, because I’ve done it all.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 15, 2012
at 07:26 PM

This seems to be a trend. HIT workouts are not great for fat loss around the middle. If your bum and thighs were a problem you might be able to ride that pony but driving cortisol up with HIT, driving cortisol up with LG, driving cortisol up with low carb etc...just seems to be digging a hole.

If you are gonna do LG do it as prescribed...do VLC on non-workout days, HC on workout days and lifting some weights. The heavy lifting will send an anti-catabolic signal to your muscles, HIT will really do the opposite.

I can say for myself that HIT+HC+LG works. BB+LC+LG works. HIT+VLC+LG=muscle loss, fat gain on the stomach etc...

Another reasonable option would be cyclic ketogenic with 2x a week carb refeed plus 2 heavy lifting and 1 HIT style workout a week. Tapper calories, add caffeine or nicotine to help with leaning out.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on September 16, 2012
at 12:44 AM

Spot fat reduction is a myth.

Fc891327db916c10347b008acde0daca

(1022)

on September 16, 2012
at 08:45 AM

Okay, so Bodyrock-type training would be anti-beneficial for me? I always lift weights as well, almost every training day Kettlebell Swings, Thrusts oder so! Interesting thing with the Cortisol, will look into that..

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:32 PM

@Wisper - Do some research, you don't know what you are talking about. Women preferentially store fat on their legs and butt and their are ways to address this via hormone modulation. The same thing is true regarding Cortisol. Try it. Go VLC, drop calories to 1000 per day and then do crossfit 5x a week. You will almost certainly develop a little gut. It's a normal response to stress.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on September 16, 2012
at 10:36 PM

@Severine - Lot of ways to slice it. It is just that super low carb, and lean gains, and high intensity will probably drive your cortisol thru the roof. Remember Zuzanna had recipes for oatmeal and stuff with apples etc... If you love the HIT stuff or crossfit add some yam and low-fructose fruit and maybe if you aren't stressed play with the leangains. BUT. If you do HIT without carb your body will breakdown muscle because it can't burn fat during HIT. HIT+Carb or BB+VLC are both fine.

0
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on September 15, 2012
at 05:30 PM

NO, it is definitely not necessary to go HCLF for an entire training day. I train 6 days per week and only do 1-2 high carb days per week. My other days I keep starchy carbs to either in the morning or directly post workout, and do not consume more than 45 grams in total day. My other meals are salads with meat or fish and nuts.

What works for is to do 0.3 * bodyweight (or desired body weight) to give you the grams of carbs to eat on lower carb days. For me, that's no more than 45 grams (typically keep between 30-45g). FOr you, that would be roughly 40 grams of starchy carbs (any vegetable that grows beneath the ground should be counted as carbs as ...even carrots and beets... no need to add up non starchy, above ground vegetables because the carbs are indigestible for humans...don't eat fruit either, as it doesn't replenish muscle glycogen efficiently)

Then do a carb reefed day only 1-2x per week with grams of carbs at 1 * body mass (OR desired body mass). For you that's around 120-130 grams. For me that is 155 grams for maintenance. Keep protein at 1-2g per/lb of lean body mass, and then add in fats to meet your caloric goals on both low carb and high carb days.

If you are aiming for fat loss or lean muscle gain at the expense of fat, I would minimize all fruit consumption, and if you are going to consume it, leave it to first thing in the morning or post workout. Do 4-5 lower carb days followed by 1 high carb day, then repeat. If you're really needing to drop that muffin-top, then you can consider some supplements and fasted bilk walks in the mornings. Take 0.5-2g l-carnitine and possibly yohimbe (if you tolerate it...most women do not) prior to your workouts. THis assists in the mobilization of fat. ALso, consider taking r-ALA (100-300) with your post workout carbs. This helps transport the carbs into the muscles, where you want them.

Hope that helps.

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