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Is Ketosis still possible with 200-300 grams post workout

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 27, 2012 at 12:21 AM

I've been eating one meal per day about (6-8pm) after my workout. Potatoes are my staple and I eat a lot of them (with plenty of fat---olive oil, bacon, eggs ect) The thing is I don't get hungry during the day and my workouts are amazing even after not eating for over 20 hrs. How is this possible when I'm eating so much carbs?

Is fasting for ~21 hours a bad idea with this amount of carbs? Why do I feel so good?

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on October 28, 2012
at 05:19 PM

fair point. here's a good post about potatoes. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/paleo-potatoes/#axzz2AcCTUwyt

0b4326a4949718451a8571b82558dc10

(2349)

on October 28, 2012
at 03:53 PM

I eat yams, sweet potatoes, and white potatoes...but I don't worry about white potatoes when i'm eating at night or post workout.

0b4326a4949718451a8571b82558dc10

(2349)

on October 28, 2012
at 03:49 PM

really? maybe i over estimated. I stuff myself with potatoes PWO but i'm not pretty sure i'm not eating that much.

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on October 27, 2012
at 09:48 PM

200 grams of carbs = 5.5 large potatoes weighing 370 grams each. It's pretty hard to eat that many potatoes in one sitting. If you're only eating one meal, that's 1,000 calories with 20g of protein and 200g of net carbs. If that's all you eat, you could conceivably become ketogenic toward the end of your fast. Those who overfast (16-24 hours) for blood tests often show ketones even though they're not eating low-carb. At 1,000 calories or a bit above, you could become ketogenic. I see that there are some people who advocate VLC diets who can't even do calorie counting properly.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 03:02 AM

I still say +1 for your thoroughness which I tend to lack these days....

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 02:58 AM

Yes he will enter fat burning (long as calories are low enough) with our with out those carbs.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 02:58 AM

....quoted. 4. You are right. This is the hot topic, because in this individual I think his metabolic flexibility will be excellent. BUT, that does not mean he will be entering ketosis or relying significantly on ketones for an energy source in the brain and other tissues that have the option. He just isn't likely to cross that threshold into that particular adaptive state. Does not mean I find his WOE lacking.......It is just not ketosis (well not likely..unless we get some tests done.).

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 02:54 AM

The problem components become 3 and 4 primarily. Your 1 is fine...2 becomes a sliding scale, but there is a point that the body will not go bellow (keto adapted individuals still don't go bellow 1/2 full capasity). 3. Well even at high intensity its tough to run through much muscle glycogen...it takes moderate to high intensity over significant time to do a depletion workout. Otherwise supposing that you burn much more than 100 grams (I said 60 based on a Volek report that I "think" I recall but don't have in front of me.......so lets round up to a number I'm sure is higher than they....

06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on October 27, 2012
at 02:54 AM

Couldn't have said it any better.

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5 Answers

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2
3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 12:40 AM

If your gonna eat that much carbs it would actually be optimal to 1.) eat em post work out and 2.) eat em all at once. Actually its the persistent raised glucose and insulin rollercoaster of several carby meals and snacks throughout the day that is not so hot.

So in essence your plan is optimal.

I mean...I personally could never eat that much potato, but hey....to each their own.

Oh...Is ketosis possible part. Probably not. I mean even working hard for an hour you only burn like 60 grams of carbohydrate. So I'm just gonna go with NO on the keto bit. You may get back into keto near the end of your 21 hour fast though. I'm not certain. Depends on you and your circumstances.

2
68294383ced9a0eafc16133aa80d1905

(5795)

on October 27, 2012
at 02:40 AM

To break this down, lets look at a few things.

1. Glycogen Storage. There is some conflicting science out there on Glycogen storage, and like calories stored/burned, protein synthesis and many other things, we can't treat them like a simple equation. However, we can use some rough estimates. According to this link, Glycogen Storage & Athletic Performance, the average person can store 400 grams in muscle tissue and another 100 grams in the liver. The more muscle mass, the greater capacity of Glycogen storage, which makes sense given that it takes excess water to store each additional gram of Glycogen. This is why low-carb generally produces a loss of water weight up front.

2. Glycogen Starting Point, Depletion & Refilling. Again, we can't be exact like a simple math equation, but for purpose of explanation, lets just assume you're average, with the numbers above (400g muscle + 100g liver, 500g maximum total Glycogen storage). The liver uses Glycogen to maintain blood sugar levels, and the muscle Glycogen is going to be depleted during exercise. You have determine here where you are starting. If you're starting at 500g and intake is 200-300 grams of carbohydrate per day, you're going to see a slow drop in starting point. The average replenishment of Glycogen to max out in a 24-hour period is consumption of 25 grams of Glucose per hour, or 600 grams per day. Lets assume you're getting 300 per day, if the replenishment rate stays consistent, you're going to only replenish half of this after each day. This is going to be even greater if you're around the 200 gram/day point, and even lower depending on how much of that 200 grams is from Fructose. Fructose will ONLY contribute to replenishing liver Glycogen, which as we stated, is capped at 100 grams.

3. Activity Level. The above-mentioned calculation is NOT factoring in exercise. If you're doing high-intensity cardio such as sprinting or something of that nature, you will deplete Glycogen rapidly. If your activity is strength-based, you will be using less Glycogen, but even with this, some will still be lost over the next 24-48 hours. If high-amounts of ONLY protein is consumed after a workout, which is standard for most strength athletes, protein synthesis is activated with the loss of muscle Glycogenwhen it is broken down. Obviously maximum Glycogen would be lost during a very long steady-state cardio session.

4. Metabolic Flexibility. This is a hot topic. I've posted a lot about it lately. It basically comes down to how quickly and efficiently one is able to switch energy sources. Some people get become very flexible and get into Ketosis rather easily. For others, it takes longer.

Lots to consider here, but I think it's fair to say that after a few cycles of this and very low starting Glycogen levels, you're going to have the ability to become very flexible and quite possibly get into Ketosis within that fasting time of 21 hours. If you are doing the 200-300 grams per day of carbohydrate, I'd see it to be very unlikely that you really ever tap much into your stored body fat, but I DO think you can get some of the benefits of Ketosis by doing something like this. I think by maybe doing it every other day, you may even have more control over whatever results you might want.

06ca9c524c28bc3fba95d4d90f8f43c6

on October 27, 2012
at 02:54 AM

Couldn't have said it any better.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 03:02 AM

I still say +1 for your thoroughness which I tend to lack these days....

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 02:58 AM

Yes he will enter fat burning (long as calories are low enough) with our with out those carbs.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 02:58 AM

....quoted. 4. You are right. This is the hot topic, because in this individual I think his metabolic flexibility will be excellent. BUT, that does not mean he will be entering ketosis or relying significantly on ketones for an energy source in the brain and other tissues that have the option. He just isn't likely to cross that threshold into that particular adaptive state. Does not mean I find his WOE lacking.......It is just not ketosis (well not likely..unless we get some tests done.).

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 27, 2012
at 02:54 AM

The problem components become 3 and 4 primarily. Your 1 is fine...2 becomes a sliding scale, but there is a point that the body will not go bellow (keto adapted individuals still don't go bellow 1/2 full capasity). 3. Well even at high intensity its tough to run through much muscle glycogen...it takes moderate to high intensity over significant time to do a depletion workout. Otherwise supposing that you burn much more than 100 grams (I said 60 based on a Volek report that I "think" I recall but don't have in front of me.......so lets round up to a number I'm sure is higher than they....

1
B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 27, 2012
at 12:33 PM

I honestly don't think so. It depends whether you believe the "Selfish Brain Theory" or not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selfish_brain_theory

The SFB states that the brain meets it's own energy requirement first, sucking up 120g of glucose before replenishing depleted glycogen supplies. Even if your muscles and liver are completely glycogen depleted, you'll knock yourself out of ketosis as soon as you eat the carbs.

You don't say what sort of workout you are doing, by 200g of carbs looks like a lot. I bet your liver is pretty full of glycogen. What do the ketostix say?

1
Medium avatar

(2338)

on October 27, 2012
at 01:02 AM

i agree with jayjay on most points however, i would have to disagree with ketosis not being possible. i think it's very likely that if you are in a carb depleted state most of the time and you eat your carbs post workout that they will all go to 1. your brain and 2. your muscles will eat up whatever is left over. i think most of the carbs you eat post workout will go towards refilling glycogen stores and your body will continue to burn fat once you digest your meal.

0
F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on October 27, 2012
at 02:38 PM

I didn't think potatoes were all that Paleo. Could you substitute with yams, sweet potatoes and squashes instead?

0b4326a4949718451a8571b82558dc10

(2349)

on October 28, 2012
at 03:53 PM

I eat yams, sweet potatoes, and white potatoes...but I don't worry about white potatoes when i'm eating at night or post workout.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on October 28, 2012
at 05:19 PM

fair point. here's a good post about potatoes. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/paleo-potatoes/#axzz2AcCTUwyt

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