3

votes

If carbs make you fat, why is this guy so lean?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 12, 2012 at 2:16 AM

This body builder - Derek Tresize - is in amazing shape. (See attached images.) He eats over 500 grams of carbs per day - and increases it when he is "cutting". (He lowers fat at this time, interestingly.)

He happens to be a vegan, but I'm just curious how he could be so lean if carbs supposedly make you fat. He eats tons of beans.

Matthew

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149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

If I have mistakenly maligned your character Foreveryoung...then I appologize. most earnestly. Your comment "In T2D, the cells are resistant to insulin. Dr B thinks these should have the same dietary intervention and that is stupid,"...I have reread that again. I am still under the impression that you are calling what Dr,. Bernstein says about treatment is 'stupid". Please educate me as to your real meaning if I am wrong. I have seen much on this blog where people who do not work in the field trash people who have come before them who do work in the field. It bores me and dissapoints me.

Medium avatar

(2422)

on January 12, 2013
at 03:26 AM

With just weight training, can't eat many carbs or ill feel like crap and look the same. If I rock climb or mountaineer for hours on end daily, I can eat more rice than a Chinese dockworker, and get super lean. Go figure.

Medium avatar

(2422)

on January 12, 2013
at 03:23 AM

My college roommate used to come home after a twelve pack or two of beer at the parties with us, sit down to a gallon of cheap ice cream at 2am, and proceed to eat every bite. He didn't train, and I've yet to see a man with a more cut midsection.

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on November 21, 2012
at 01:14 AM

Well primalpat, I am here because I eat a true paleo diet and I come here seeking testimonials to tweek my diet into what I find to be optimal. WHy are you here?? Let me add that you dont eat true paleo as I do, so maybe youre the one in the wrong place. I only eat wild fish because that's what true paleo means to me. Eating hybrid chickens, cows, and pigs is not at all paleo in my honest opinion. Were there chickens thousands of years ago? NO. Were there cows? NO. Were there disgusting pigs that spend their time in mud? NO. Were there WILD fish? YES. So seeing that you joined 6days ago...

74786bbe8254844304a33943290c4d6d

(1663)

on November 20, 2012
at 01:45 PM

Why are you here? Why do you feel the need to chastise meat eaters? No one likes death, of any kind, unless you are a blooming sociopath. Meat and fat sustains and nourishes and has for thousands of years, case closed. You have no moral high ground whatsoever just because you refuse to eat meat. Thanks for coming out.

74786bbe8254844304a33943290c4d6d

(1663)

on November 20, 2012
at 01:43 PM

Why are you here? Why do you feel the need to chastise meat eaters? No one likes death, of any kind, unless you are a bloom sociopath. Meat and fat sustains and nourishes and has for thousands of years, case closed. You have no moral high ground whatsoever just because you refuse to eat meat. Thanks for coming out.

C2ecbc6f2948c232d60a639c50b7f4f9

(504)

on October 05, 2012
at 08:10 PM

Hard work, dedication, and sacrifice gets you like that

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on October 03, 2012
at 08:40 PM

the muscles, i mean >.>

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:29 AM

Come on Matt this completely ignores metabolism, nutrient-density,...

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on August 01, 2012
at 05:25 AM

haha you people still eating cooked foods.....i only eat raw foods because they contain energy and enzymes. RAW fruits, leaves, milks, honey, nuts, and seeds. just keep eating animal flesh and support all the slaughterhouses and murder that goes on daily. oh and youre at least eating organic meat right? good heavens if you are not....but i mean antibiotics and steroids arent bad to eat through your food are they? i bet those can mess with your brain chemistry a lot more than any raw, natural foood can. but hey keep doing what youre doing...

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 31, 2012
at 06:22 PM

Why are you even on this website? Get a hobby

Baa413654789b57f3579474ca7fa43d7

(2349)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:18 PM

Is he Tebowing?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 26, 2012
at 08:43 AM

@thhq, what about all the evidence from HG/traditional societies that show that they don't expend significantly more calories than post-industrial westerners, e.g. kitavans and hadza

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 26, 2012
at 08:36 AM

It's far more than simply the case that 'you have to know the difference between your mouth and a vacuum cleaner.' There are significant numbers of people (lots on this site alone) who would feel compelled to 'vacuum' up food if the food in question was carbs and who happily stop eating if the food in question is high in fat, low in carbs. It would be fairer to say that carbs can have this effect in some people and don't have this effect in others.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 06:22 AM

(Actually concentrated milk sources like cheese would be better for tyrosine)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 03:07 AM

Youll get more fat, more choline, more tryptophan and more tryrosine for your brain. Unless your also missing b12 (which is also probable), this is a vegatarian way of compensating for your lack of amino acid foods. Maybe add a vegan b12 supplement in there too. By the end of a few days of that (mega amounts of eggs + avocada + milk + some b12 supplements), theres a good chance your vague "light" distracted, memory low, mental state will evapourate (if thats indeed what you have, brain nutritional deficiences, but it certainly sounds like it)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 03:02 AM

Ground control to major tom! Not exactly good PR for what vegetarianism can do to your brain. If it werent for the eggs (dunno how many your eating, but your not eating choline or amino rich meat, so it would need to be alot to compensate), id suggest a lack of choline, which can produce a disassociative datura like state, vegans often confuse with spirituality. But just in case try this- eat five of those eggs for breakfast, and two for dinner, with an avocado or two, and a glass of milk over the next few days and see if it makes you feel less spaced out.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:54 AM

Mind you he's eating eggs, but hed need to eat alot to make up for the meat hes skipping. Certainly something weird is going on with his brain nutrients/aminos.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:48 AM

Is a lack of choline in the brain making this guy become disassociative? I notice that often happens with vegans etc. Its not too different from smoking datura. Ground control to major tom?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:45 AM

I cant eat carbs. They make me very sick. I cant have most dairy either. If I was vegetarian, I would probably die. Oh, and the God of the bible is the biggest serial killer there is. Fat lot of sense him telling us "thou shalt not kill" is. Id take that same advice about as seriously if it came from hilter.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:37 AM

Your brain needs de-cult-programming, if you beleive that "undigested meat" nonsense. Be a vegan for purely philosophical reasons (then again, even trees eat the dead, eating other beings is natures way of fighting entropy) if you so choose, but dont buy into all those nonsense myths.!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Undigested meat? What the? I would think thats what happens with all that plant cellulose the human cant digest because of our shrunken appendix, after all most plant matter digestion occurs in the bowel, and alot of it just comes out the other end. I dont see chunks of beef in my bowel movements, but I do see plants, especially things like corn (which i dont eat anymore) and nuts. Its plants that the human body has trouble with. Fat and protein we are made for. As far as slaughtering, i wouldnt mind learning to hunt and do it myself.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:25 AM

Breathe deep. Open wide and say ommmmmm. Let the kosher pastrami heal you.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:25 AM

Because of that its not really accurate to say smoking causes cancer, because not everyone gets that effect, even if they smoke their whole lives and live to 120. Its more like smoking raises you risk of cancer.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:24 AM

Basically its about your DNA getting messed up. Something that the body does its best to avoid via anti-oxidants, liver clearance and probably other things I am not aware of.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:22 AM

Re smoking, its because genotoxicity is generally protected against. There are some genotoxins in our food, so thats pretty important. It usually takes many many regular amounts of a genotoxin before in produces effects, and even then it wont do so in everyone, because some have better defenses against it. I know theres some guy who is 107 and has smoked and drunk all his life.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:22 AM

Your YELlING is making me FEARful paleo12. Fearful that you've been smoking too much of that hemp. You need a brainzzz transfusion maybe? Relax and have some pastrami. CLEANSE yourself of those rotting potatoes in your guts.

F5be4be097edc85690c12d67ee1a27c0

(1884)

on July 19, 2012
at 08:35 PM

Because they die from something else before they get it!

07f28815a1910a2efdd4e46df3cdc6b3

(120)

on July 19, 2012
at 08:34 PM

Along as we are talking about magical thinking, I might as well eat some lion hearts to counter the fear blood Im eating. Im trying to finish this elephant penis soup right now...

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 19, 2012
at 08:18 PM

If smoking causes lung cancer, why doesn't every smoker get it?

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 19, 2012
at 08:15 PM

Any argument that begins with "God intended us to eat" loses right off the bad. Funny, that in your bible, Jesus told Peter, to "rise, kill and eat"....and Jesus himself was not agains killing, but against Murder. There is a difference. Able's sacrifice was not excepted, but Cain's was.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 19, 2012
at 08:12 PM

Medium Rare all the way!

F5be4be097edc85690c12d67ee1a27c0

(1884)

on July 19, 2012
at 08:07 PM

I know my steak is just right when blood is consuming the plate it sits upon.

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 19, 2012
at 05:47 PM

I will admit that mainstream religion is fucked up and twisted. The catholic church has enough money to feed the whole world. However, our brother Jesus Christ knew how to live in a way that never disconnected him from God. The gospels have all be interpreted through many languages and rarely is there any true meaning in it all. But, the 4 things that Jesus definitely did preach and try to spread into our world were 1.) VEGETARIANISM, 2.) Fasting, 3.) Prayer, and 4.) Meditation. These are all very easy steps to connect back to your God-consciousness of all-that-is.

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 19, 2012
at 05:43 PM

Are you guys AFRAID of change?? It seems to me like you are....hmmm I think im smelling the FEAR through my compute. Or maybe thats just my body detoxing all the old gross animal blood that ive consumed for 20 years of my life... not certain.

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 19, 2012
at 05:41 PM

By all means continue to let animal carcasses rot in your ass-holes until you get colon cancer like every one else in this country. im just expressing what god channels me to say and thats all we can do as the SPIRIRUAL BEINGS we are. If you wanna live like animals and kill, then be my guest. Im only offering words to the wise. But if you dont have ears to listen or eyes to see then i guess this will be fairly meaningless to you.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 19, 2012
at 03:59 PM

The ten commandments don't mention animal friends in the part about thou shalt not kill either. This is edging towards a Monty Python-ish Life of Brian style of religion. I'm tempted to vote you up on the grounds of pure Dada. But to be truly dada you'd recognize the importance of veal....

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 19, 2012
at 03:54 PM

-1. I love a good vegan speed rap, but the Hebrew God loves the smell of burnt meat. What part of kosher are you having a problem with?

A7925ab8ea44e6d4d5d7c6f202632c6c

(404)

on July 19, 2012
at 06:55 AM

"God intended us to eat" ----- this is where i stopped reading: if someone starts to utilize some unidentified entities like god, aliens, angry gremlins or whatever, any discussion with such a person becomes meaningless...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 15, 2012
at 01:54 PM

Good point foreveryoung. I have the same problem with the Sisson surfer image thing for the same reason. While a paleo may have better reasons to be fit than a vegan - you don't need a build like this to pull carrots - bodybuilding culture is a Neolithic thing no matter who's doing it.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 15, 2012
at 01:48 PM

Life is just one big multifactorial experiment. Sometimes that includes a bowl of cherries.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on July 15, 2012
at 11:31 AM

Lawn looks like it's damaged by dogs. Thinner at edges where dogs run back and forth. Dead spots where dogs defecate/urinate. High green grass just out side the dead spots where the nitrogen is higher, but not so high that it killed the grass. .... Oh the guy? Genetics, hard work.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 10:00 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is something I do not quite relish. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having benefited from liberal arts education. Cheers

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 09:59 PM

@ Chimene- I do not relish trying to reason illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having benefited from liberal arts education. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 09:56 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having benefited from liberal arts education. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 08:07 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having received a high quality, liberal arts education. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 08:02 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having received a high quality, liberal arts education. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 07:49 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your reasoning, it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside of personal training, your area of expertise.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 07:35 PM

@ Andre CHIMENE-Off of the top of my head there are at least a half dozen things you would need to improve upon in order to make your argument approach respectable and cogent. However, offering these would be a waste of my time not only because your ad hominem retorts do nothing to dispense either knowledge or fact, but also because you apparently lack the reading comprehension skills necessary for us to effectively communicate via writing. I guess that's not your area of expertise though- personal training is-and by your logic that would excuse from one knowing anything else. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 07:34 PM

@ Andre CHIMENE-Off of the top of my head there are at least a half dozen things you would need to improve upon in order to make your argument approach respectable and cogent. However, offering these would be a waste of my time not only because your ad hominem retorts do nothing to dispense either knowledge or fact, but also because you apparently lack the reading comprehension skills necessary for us to effectively communicate via writing. I guess that's not your area of expertise though- personal training is-and by your logic that would excuse from knowing anything else. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 07:30 PM

@ Andre CHIMENE-Off of the top of my head there are at least a half dozen things you would need to improve upon in order to make your argument half way respectable and cogent, but offering these would be a waste of my time. Not only is this because your ad hominem retorts do nothing to dispense either knowledge or fact, but also because you apparently lack the reading comprehension skills that would be necessary for us to effectively communicate via writing. I guess that's not your area of expertise though- personal training is-and by your logic that would excuse from knowing anything else.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 13, 2012
at 03:29 PM

Andre my recommendation to you is to delete all your comments. Besides bad spelling (its break, not brake), you have attacked, apologized (you did owe it) and then retracted your apology. You come across as self-righteous, judgmental, petty and angry in this thread. I hope that you are not. Not only that - why are you so defensive? Why not just share in a mature manner what you like about Dr. B. Given your comments and style here, you are not somebody who I would ever seek out or to refer for professional services. You have your name and business advertised here. Think about it

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 13, 2012
at 03:26 PM

Andre my recommendation to you is to delete all your comments. Besides bad spelling, you have attacked, apologized (you did owe it) and then retracted your apology. You come across as self-righteous, judgmental, petty and angry. Not only that - why are you so defensive. Why not just share in a mature manner what you like about Dr. B. Given your comments and style here, you are not somebody who I would ever seek out or to refer for professional services. You have your name and business advertised here. Think about it.

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on July 13, 2012
at 11:19 AM

As far as reclining in a hammock...yes, I take a brake now and then. However, I have dedicated my life to helping diabetics heal. I work with Dr. Ron Rosedale and I have spent the last 5 years in India doing my field work...on top of the 25 years in the health field. I have now reread your response where you say you meant to call Dr. B's methods stupid. I now retract my apology.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 13, 2012
at 06:23 AM

Raise, yes I did the "scenery" too. :) I commute up to CU in Boulder and wish I were as outdoorsy as many of those folks, as it is gorgeous, uh, scenery, but I spose I'm one of the poser paleos who mostly focus on diet. But in spite of Boulder's very paleo active-outdoorsiness, being vegetarian or vegan is incredibly trendy. Oh well.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 05:17 AM

I disagree. I would consider bodybuilding more of an art than a sport, where the canvas is your body. weight lifting is sport. strong man is a sport. bodbybuilding/physique/figure is an art.

E3267155f6962f293583fc6a0b98793e

(1085)

on July 13, 2012
at 12:58 AM

Who knows if I'll be here in another 20 years as I am 61 now. I know I'll be in better shape in 20 years eating fewer carbs than I would eating 200 or 300 grams a day. But I feel infinitely better physically eating much less carbs than I have in the last 45 years.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 13, 2012
at 12:25 AM

Sure that's not the dainty pose he's doing?

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:50 PM

Soft as in delicate-looking...but he may still be lurking around here and the rest of him could kick my ass...

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:40 PM

his skin is awesome, too.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 10:31 PM

I am only 5'7" 144. not that big, but a little bulky for climbing, for sure.

0361cceaf703c92f99848b078bfc9f67

(225)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:46 PM

Such a sad, uninformed answer.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:39 PM

@thhq, soft in the ankles, meaning?

Medium avatar

(2422)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:21 PM

I don't do rotten, but raw meat is my top calorie source ;)

Medium avatar

(2422)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:19 PM

Raise, youre a big guy for a climber. Nice route though. All that muslcle must make you like those big, juggy overhangs ;)

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:51 PM

Look at dudes on steroids and then this guy. Totally different. This guy looks great. Natural, fit body. He doesn't look dehydrated at all either. Stop knocking this guy. He lifts, is prolly pretty active, watches what he eats, etc. why attack him?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:20 PM

Enough with the bold type. Seriously, don't make me smack you.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:14 PM

There's definitely some "juicing" in there somewhere.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:13 PM

Ha, ha, ha! Love it thhq!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:10 PM

@muzzle, they lose at the same rate.

99ac392257e444e014be6d4da6a900e4

(1036)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:02 PM

Not sure if folks are being serious here or not but I've seen the same people at the gym EVERYDAY for the last 15 years and their body comp doesn't change. And I see guys who never set foot in a gym yet are lean and strong yet drink beer and eat fast food. You think genetics don't play a roll in body composition? C'mon. I'd add that the appearance of MOST competitive bodybuilders, fitness models, etc are a result of chemicals and supplements.

D05e94d3fa7fbf32eb56445ad932f654

(773)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:04 PM

Let's say two identical guys eat the same below-maintenance calories per day. One eats lots of carbs, and the other mostly fats instead of carbs. Will one lose fat quicker?

F5be4be097edc85690c12d67ee1a27c0

(1884)

on July 12, 2012
at 06:19 PM

Ugh, why are his legs so underdeveloped?

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on July 12, 2012
at 05:56 PM

Excellent answer.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 05:48 PM

Love the water depleted lawn comment!

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 05:48 PM

agreed, that he doesn't look un natural. He has good musculature, nothing excessive. Props to him for working hard.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 05:47 PM

@Matt....probably so.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 05:44 PM

It is sad that people automatically assume steroids. I don't know nor do I care, but he is innocent until proven guilty.

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:24 PM

Regardless, it would be great if there was a paleo bodybuilding role model out there. Everything sports related in the paleo world is either endurance or cross-fit based.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:18 PM

^ Thhq that is wonderful to hear. Good job and keep up the good work.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:34 PM

Just because I haven't saved lives like Dr. Bernstein does not mean I make no contribution to society.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:18 PM

Doesn't look water depleted at all in the first pic (unless you're talking about his lawn in the background). The second pic doesn't look particularly dehydrated either, no vasculature showing, few striation in musculature...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:15 PM

Not to take credit for that one, I think that's paraphrasing Robb Wolf.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:12 PM

Have you been to Nigeria or do you know anything about medical treatment fascilities there? If so then I'm sure you're aware that they are very underprivilaged relative to affluent nations. Well, fortunately now at least one trauma unit in Nigeria now has an electronic database to keep track of and compile records of patients. This will be benefecial in the long run not only to the orginization of the hospital, but for information on where resources could be better allocated, and making it easier to gather epidemiological evidence. Do you know who built that (redcap) database for them?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:39 PM

@ ANDRE CHIMENE- I see you accused me of being an "armchair health expert," and just now glancing at your profile picture, I see that you are the one reclining in a hammock and I am the one rowing a boat and busting my ass. Just saying.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:25 PM

@Lyndsay - You're eyes got all the way down to his calves? Wow, you are a master of temptation!

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:22 PM

The Swiss Twin study shows that overall health and factors like obesity is only 25% genetics. The remaining 75% is determined by lifestyle. I do not like body building. I think it is silly, non-functional, and somewhat homoerotic but that is my opinion. I cannot deny/somewhat admire their dedication and the sacrifices they make to achieve an ideal.

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:16 PM

I think that being that low of a BF% is 'unnatural'. Most athletes hover in the 15-20% body fat range. I think that his size is within normal range. His chest is probably overdeveloped for a 'natural' build but I imagine that 'cave' men would have had well developed musculature. Obviously people are bigger now due to calorie abundance (average height has steadily increased in first world countries). Either way, I admire his dedication and will to achieve such a physical ideal.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:09 PM

As I read in another blog years ago "lady put down that cookie".

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:05 PM

Most people here use food reward as a way to find the most distasteful thing they could possibly eat. The point - that there's too much easy reward out there - is lost on them, as they go on searching for new ways to make themselves miserable.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:03 PM

Of course I'm talking about hypothetical scenarios. Where would our ancestors find pure protein in the absence of any fat or carbohydrate? If they did and consumed maintenance calories on it, they'd die of renal failure before they had time get fat

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:01 PM

Unless you eat an all-fat diet...which is hypothetical in the extreme...where would our ancient ancestors find all that fat...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:54 PM

@ thq- Actually I think that dietary fat alone is the only thing that cannot make you gain weight, at is the only class of macronutrients that does not illicit an insulin response. However, if for some other reason you have elevated insulin levels besides from consuming protein and/or carbs, then that fat could be stored as adipose tissue, which is one of the roles of insulin within the body.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:41 PM

... I really do welcome your criticisms and critiques on my views, but you went for my character instead. Why? I'll be the first to admit I'm not a perfect person, but I do not actually think I am making anyone's life worse off. I have already done and continue to make valuable contributions to a sector of economics informing public policy on the ramifications of certain financial regulations on social welfare. I published my first paper when I was 20. I am 22, but if you google my name you would see that I am 4th hit and the first image.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:39 PM

Running usually fixes the problem better than FODMAPS.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:37 PM

You think he looks natural? I dont think youll find a hunter gatherer that looks like that, personally. Id be interested in being proven wrong..

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:37 PM

Real paleos ate uncooked carrion....maybe a rotten vegetable too...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:35 PM

My job as a paleo is to be active. Meat's important but definitely secondary in importance.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:34 PM

Can we give you another 20 years, Deb? Just to see if you're in the same shape you are now. Reality check: nobody is immune to aging and gradual degeneration.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:33 PM

The muscle mass gives you the metabolic advantage. People who lived in paleo times were metabolically robust enough to eat whatever they found. They weren't the picky eaters that we developed into in Neolithic times.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:32 PM

@raisefitness, I'd wager most bodybuilders in the off season are in better shape than 90% of paleos. Stronger too.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:31 PM

But alas, I will not dispense that information to a stranger who criticizes me online because I disagree with an expert. WHo knows, maybe my contributions in thus far and in the future could inform public policy to the point that it has a direct positive influence on your welfare.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:30 PM

Michael phelps eats a lot of carbs - and crappy ones at that - and he is quite lean. He also eats a lot of calories. But I ain't Michael Phelps, so I don't care what he does. If I eat all those pancakes and waffles, I will balloon up and feel like crap. Meat and veg make me feel good - that's all that matters to me.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:29 PM

@thhq, exactly, you just have to know the difference between your mouth and a vacuum cleaner. :)

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:27 PM

But he looks healthy and I bet he feels great, that's all that matters, right? That's the paleo standard right there. ;)

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:26 PM

It's fine though. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the best person to have graced the planet, but I'm not actively making it worse for others and I'm sure I've made it better for at least someone. I also contribute fairly heavily to a certain sector of economics community, having published my first paper when I was 20 and having been payed by the Koche Foundation for my time and research on public policy and ramifications certain regulations placed upon the financial sector. You could google my name and see that I am 4th hit and the first image.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:26 PM

If you don't strive you're only a superficial paleo. Hunt-and-gather every day. This vegan is more paleo than most paleos.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:25 PM

Unnatural? He's not even that ripped, where's the visible vasculature? He's somewhere in the 7-10% bodyfat range, off-season conditioning for bodybuilders.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:23 PM

Paleos are big on dietary supplements too. I consider that cheating.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:20 PM

The guy looks soft in the ankles...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:18 PM

Update: carbs and fat CAN make you fat but they don't have to.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:16 PM

Restricting carbs helped me get rid of T2. It took a lot of exercise to get rid of the underlying obesity. Once insulin sensitivity returned there was no need to restrict carbs any more.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:16 PM

@ Andre. Stupid was a poor choice of words, perhaps. Maybe I should have just written I disagree. I'm allowed to disagree, right? For instance, Mark Sisson is an English major and yet publishes online daily his disagreements with modern medicine and what other physicians are recommending. Somehow it's okay for him to do so, but not me? I have strong opinions on things even where they are not my expertise, sure, I'll admit that. Sure, they're probably often wrong too, but why not just point out where they're wrong, instead of attacking my character?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:15 PM

@ Andre. Stupid was a poor choice of words, perhaps. Maybe I should have just written I disagree. I'm allowed to disagree, right? For instance, Mark Sisson is an English major and yet publishes online daily his disagreements with modern medicine and what other physicians are recommending. Some how it's okay for him to do so, but not me? I have strong opinions on things even where they are not my expertise, sure, I'll admit that. Sure, they're probably often wrong too, but why not just point out where they're wrong, instead of attacking my character?

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:12 PM

You can get enough nutrients to look like this, provided you do the work. Even a paleo could do this.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:09 PM

This guy and Jack Lalanne are an inconvenient truth that demonstrates that it's not about diet at all. The obesity epidemic is a Sedentism epidemic.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:05 PM

Genes and diet have so little to do with it. Unless those genes and diet lead you to want to live in a gym...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:00 PM

The only macro that won't lead to fat is protein. And building yourself this way points towards killing bears, not pulling carrots. This guy is practicing paleo hunt-and-gather but is misguided on paleo intent.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:00 PM

Incidious weight gain occurs when eating 100-400 grams of FAT AND ON TOP OF THAT eating 400 grams of Fructose/Glucose. Use your critical thinking skills. And double those #'s for the typical fat a%%.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:48 AM

You can really say that about every food. Who knows your meat intake might kill you 2 years from now.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:08 AM

Looks natural to me.

153c4e4a22734ded15bf4eb35b448e85

(762)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:53 AM

Robert cheeke has really bad stomach problems, has had them for years, but I do agree that he looks great, and he's a really nice person.

153c4e4a22734ded15bf4eb35b448e85

(762)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:52 AM

I don't know about the steroids, he's not that big, and he doesn't have those steroid "monkey" facial features steroid users get.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:18 AM

I guess, but then wouldn't reducing carbs be the same as running away from your problems?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:13 AM

Still doesn't address the graph at Mark's daily apple ('incidious weight gain') or Lustigs theory ('fructose is a toxin'), or Taubes theory ('insulin is the devil'). There's something seriously wrong with all those.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:58 AM

Man, he looks so unnatural and wrong (more in the second pic than the first). At least he doesnt look as bad as some other body builders I suppose. Theres still some semblance of a human being in there, however unhealthy. But, being vegan AND artificially composed AND ultra low in body fat.... I wonder how long it would take him to die in the wild....He'd be just fascinating to watch on survivor, or better yet, just dropped in the amazon with a camera and satallite link up ...right after hes done "cutting".

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:58 AM

Man, he looks so unnatural and wrong (more in the second pic than the first). At least he doesnt look as bad as some other body builders I suppose. Theres still some semblance of a human being in there, however unhealthy. But, being vegan AND artificially composed AND ultra low in body fat.... I wonder how long it would take him to die in the wild....He'd be just fascinating to watch on survivor, or better yet, just dropped in the amazon with a camera and satallite link up ...right after hes done cutting before a comp.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:40 AM

That dude is so yellow/orange. He looks like a shiny carrot, or a tall ompah-lumpa.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:37 AM

Man, he looks so unnatural and wrong. Like some kind of cartoon. At least he doesnt look as bad as some other body builders I suppose. Theres still some semblance of a human being in there, however unhealthy. But, being vegan AND artificially composed AND ultra low in body fat.... I wonder how long it would take him to die in the wild....He'd be just _fascinating_ to watch on survivor, or better yet, just dropped in the amazon with a camera and satallite link up.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:32 AM

Man, that looks _so_ unnatural. At least he doesnt look as bad as some other body builders I suppose. But, being vegan AND artificially composed AND ultra low in body fat.... I wonder how long it would take him to die in the wild....

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:40 AM

Whether this guy's on steroids or not, Lustigs theory could be totally wrong, I personally believe so, because I think Ray Peats theories are much more sound. I get fat or lean based on temperature, not based on caloric intake or macronutrient ratios, though low-carb lowers my temperature and tends to make me less lean than on a high-fruit diet.

9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

(15833)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:37 AM

I had the same thought.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:17 AM

Andre Andre Andre. If you are going to attack someone for what they wrote then at least get it straight. I read what foreveryoung wrote and what you are attacking him for is not what he said. He said that using the same dietary intervention for T1 and T2 diabetes is stupid. You are actually proud of your "vent", like its mild. You are attacking someone you don't know and making assumptions about someone you know nothing about, and it would be more vitriolic if you weren't a "ketone burner". Does that make you better than others? I don't think so.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:01 AM

Andre Andre Andre. You are proud of your vent here? REally? Criticizing someone you don't know and making all kinds of assumptions is something you are proud of!? Oh and because you are a ketone burner! Awesome and BFD. Anyway, I read what forever young wrote and what you are attacking him for is not even what he wrote. He said treating Type 1 and Type 2 with the same dietary interventions is stupid.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 12, 2012
at 06:51 AM

THANK YOU ANIMALCULE.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 12, 2012
at 06:49 AM

highly insulin sensitive? Is that code for "he's on steriods?" lol. simmer down. Im joking. Sorta. Random u.a. time?

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on July 12, 2012
at 06:24 AM

I love a person like you "foreveryoung" when you say the diet intervention of Dr. Bernstein's is "stupid"> You, who have done nothing to make the world or humanity a better place, slap down a man who has spent his life battling the ADA etc. and saved countless livess. You are an arm chair health expert who dishes out health advice as if you have been in the trenches and made a difference. This vent is as bad as it gets from me because I am a ketone burner. ..."be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for manking"...

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on July 12, 2012
at 06:11 AM

Could be. Some people claim that there is a small segment of the population who do find carbs to be isocalorically fattening and that controlled trials only show the mean and not the outliers. It's all speculation, including my comment.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on July 12, 2012
at 05:54 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2613405 That's not the greatest evidence because it's not calorie-controlled, but a gradual reintroduction of carbs preventing the yo-yoing, suggesting that a dramatic increase in carbs after low carbohydrate dieting triggers yo-yoing. Whether it be mediated by calories or metabolic rate, I can't say.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on July 12, 2012
at 05:50 AM

How would they know that carbs made them fat without restricting carbs first? -- In any case the yo-yo effect is well documented. It usually has to do with calories but people swear that they don't increase total calories so it might be a unique effect of carbohydrate restriction like with caloric restriction. People restrict calories and store more energy when they start eating more calories, far more than they would be expected to. Same thing might be true with low carb. A protein sparing modified fast is both and people find that they don't yo-yo as hard if they increase carbs incrementally

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:19 AM

Or perhaps those on low-carb are on low-carb because they realized that carbs make them fat?

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:18 AM

You can not get all your nutrition from a vegan diet. I'd be willing to bet that there are fat people who are nutrient deficient. Same thing applies to "in shape" vegans and vegetarian.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 03:56 AM

Your very welcome.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:54 AM

..the reason he is not fat despite eating carbs is because his muscle cells are highly insulin sensitive.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:47 AM

Why, thank you for that picture, RaiseFitness. That's some awful nice scenery ;)

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:37 AM

That's a darn good question.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:26 AM

..and that picture is fucking awesome, Dude. Wish I were that good at climbing.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:21 AM

Theres HG populations with very high carb intake both sugars and starch, and they arent fat.

26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21

(5798)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:21 AM

He does need to water that shit... nice calves, though

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:20 AM

I'm 5'9 or 10", 5% bodyfat.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:17 AM

Nice. Bodybuilding is silly.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:16 AM

I actually I agree that Cheeke does not have an admirable physique to me. BUt I also think that competitive bodybuilding is silly.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 03:16 AM

Practical muscle is better. I was heavier during this pic. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cXazIz_f1nc/TCi_UKsMrnI/AAAAAAAAAZE/QgYEMFTalTI/s1600/super+best+friends+12b.JPG From 3 yrs ago.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:15 AM

I imagine it might have something to do with excercise? And who says carbs make you fat? Theres HG populations with very high carb intake both sugar and starch, and they arent fat. Carbs might make you insulin resistant with other factors, but they dont by default make you fat...

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 03:13 AM

Bodybuilders aren't good role models anyway. They drop to unhealthy levels of bodyfat for competition, and most have show muscles but are not very strong in movement or lifting. They portray a false image that graces the covers of magazines and makes people want to achieve what they themselves only achieve for a few weeks a year.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:12 AM

Type 2DM and T1DM are different things. In T1 the pancreas does not produce its own insulin. In T2D, the cells are resistant to insulin. Dr B thinks these should have the same dietary intervention and that is stupid, because in T2DM that is just masking the symptoms and doing nothing to reverse the illness. In fact, it is exacerbating the illness. T2DM is reversible- people just do not think they have the will power and do not want to put in the effort to rid themselves of it. The truth often hurts, and that is why people don't like hearing that

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:10 AM

*never won* I meant.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:10 AM

Not at all impressed by this physique (go ahead and down vote me for my haughtiness). Myself and several of my friends all looked infinitely better than this when we did bodybuilding in our teens (completely drug free). Maybe there's a better photograph of him out there (I'll Google later), but this just does not impress. By the way, in the competitions I did/went to vegan bodybuilders never one, and DESPITE what durianrider and company might say, it had nothing to do with steroids (they were all taking them, even the vegans).

37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

(222)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:08 AM

Very committed to eating "whole foods"...

37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

(222)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:07 AM

True, he doesn't eat much of processed anything. I believe he even avoids oils...

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 03:06 AM

I don't think he has low T, but it would surely be higher than it is if his diet were different. Props to him for swimming upstream. I can assure you it is easier to get that cut on Paleo though. Not sure what the average reader looks like, but I am more ripped on a smaller frame. 5'7" 144, 5% bodyfat, and bench 1RM 305

A9007c998e3b924deebbe9ebb98d4db6

(340)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:59 AM

No matter what he eats or what genes he got, it takes a lot of work to look that lean and cut.

A9007c998e3b924deebbe9ebb98d4db6

(340)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:57 AM

Good question regarding long term. That is where a vegan diet usually falls short.

C0fcb48d7da4f76fac17318efd2cd6b8

(4069)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:56 AM

His lawn looks bad.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:42 AM

Type 2DM and T1DM are different things. Dr B thinks they should have the same dietary intervention which is stupid, because in T2DM that is just masking the symptoms and doing nothing to reverse the illness. In fact, it is exacerbating the illness. T2DM is reversible- people just do not think they have the will power and do not want to put in the effort to rid themselves of it. The truth often hurts, and that is why people don't like hearing that.

37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

(222)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:33 AM

In reading about him, I've wondered about his testosterone, too - it can't be low. As far as most vegans not looking this way, do you think most Paleohacks readers do? I'd be curious to see if the average reader was this muscular...

37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

(222)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:32 AM

In reading about his testosterone, too - it must be high. As far as most vegans not looking this way, do you think most Paleohacks readers do? I'd be curious to see if the average reader was this muscular...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:30 AM

Can you have low T and be that jacked? I didn't think it would be physiologically possible.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:29 AM

You can't be that well muscled and lean and have low testosterone levels. I don't think it's physiologically possible.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on July 12, 2012
at 02:26 AM

This is just mild diabetes. I find it hard to discount entirely Dr Bernstein's work with lower carb, Type 1 and Type 2.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:25 AM

http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM197103112841004

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:25 AM

http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM197103112841004

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:22 AM

That is one example of many.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:22 AM

YEah I bet that guy just sits on his all day and eats crap. LMFAO

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38 Answers

23
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on July 12, 2012
at 02:20 AM

Carbs do not at all make you fat. Being insulin resistant makes you fat.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:25 AM

http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM197103112841004

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on July 12, 2012
at 02:26 AM

This is just mild diabetes. I find it hard to discount entirely Dr Bernstein's work with lower carb, Type 1 and Type 2.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:12 AM

Type 2DM and T1DM are different things. In T1 the pancreas does not produce its own insulin. In T2D, the cells are resistant to insulin. Dr B thinks these should have the same dietary intervention and that is stupid, because in T2DM that is just masking the symptoms and doing nothing to reverse the illness. In fact, it is exacerbating the illness. T2DM is reversible- people just do not think they have the will power and do not want to put in the effort to rid themselves of it. The truth often hurts, and that is why people don't like hearing that

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:01 AM

Andre Andre Andre. You are proud of your vent here? REally? Criticizing someone you don't know and making all kinds of assumptions is something you are proud of!? Oh and because you are a ketone burner! Awesome and BFD. Anyway, I read what forever young wrote and what you are attacking him for is not even what he wrote. He said treating Type 1 and Type 2 with the same dietary interventions is stupid.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:15 PM

@ Andre. Stupid was a poor choice of words, perhaps. Maybe I should have just written I disagree. I'm allowed to disagree, right? For instance, Mark Sisson is an English major and yet publishes online daily his disagreements with modern medicine and what other physicians are recommending. Some how it's okay for him to do so, but not me? I have strong opinions on things even where they are not my expertise, sure, I'll admit that. Sure, they're probably often wrong too, but why not just point out where they're wrong, instead of attacking my character?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:42 AM

Type 2DM and T1DM are different things. Dr B thinks they should have the same dietary intervention which is stupid, because in T2DM that is just masking the symptoms and doing nothing to reverse the illness. In fact, it is exacerbating the illness. T2DM is reversible- people just do not think they have the will power and do not want to put in the effort to rid themselves of it. The truth often hurts, and that is why people don't like hearing that.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:39 PM

@ ANDRE CHIMENE- I see you accused me of being an "armchair health expert," and just now glancing at your profile picture, I see that you are the one reclining in a hammock and I am the one rowing a boat and busting my ass. Just saying.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:17 AM

Andre Andre Andre. If you are going to attack someone for what they wrote then at least get it straight. I read what foreveryoung wrote and what you are attacking him for is not what he said. He said that using the same dietary intervention for T1 and T2 diabetes is stupid. You are actually proud of your "vent", like its mild. You are attacking someone you don't know and making assumptions about someone you know nothing about, and it would be more vitriolic if you weren't a "ketone burner". Does that make you better than others? I don't think so.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:54 PM

@ thq- Actually I think that dietary fat alone is the only thing that cannot make you gain weight, at is the only class of macronutrients that does not illicit an insulin response. However, if for some other reason you have elevated insulin levels besides from consuming protein and/or carbs, then that fat could be stored as adipose tissue, which is one of the roles of insulin within the body.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:00 PM

The only macro that won't lead to fat is protein. And building yourself this way points towards killing bears, not pulling carrots. This guy is practicing paleo hunt-and-gather but is misguided on paleo intent.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:03 PM

Of course I'm talking about hypothetical scenarios. Where would our ancestors find pure protein in the absence of any fat or carbohydrate? If they did and consumed maintenance calories on it, they'd die of renal failure before they had time get fat

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:01 PM

Unless you eat an all-fat diet...which is hypothetical in the extreme...where would our ancient ancestors find all that fat...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:34 PM

Just because I haven't saved lives like Dr. Bernstein does not mean I make no contribution to society.

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on July 12, 2012
at 06:24 AM

I love a person like you "foreveryoung" when you say the diet intervention of Dr. Bernstein's is "stupid"> You, who have done nothing to make the world or humanity a better place, slap down a man who has spent his life battling the ADA etc. and saved countless livess. You are an arm chair health expert who dishes out health advice as if you have been in the trenches and made a difference. This vent is as bad as it gets from me because I am a ketone burner. ..."be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for manking"...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:16 PM

@ Andre. Stupid was a poor choice of words, perhaps. Maybe I should have just written I disagree. I'm allowed to disagree, right? For instance, Mark Sisson is an English major and yet publishes online daily his disagreements with modern medicine and what other physicians are recommending. Somehow it's okay for him to do so, but not me? I have strong opinions on things even where they are not my expertise, sure, I'll admit that. Sure, they're probably often wrong too, but why not just point out where they're wrong, instead of attacking my character?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:41 PM

... I really do welcome your criticisms and critiques on my views, but you went for my character instead. Why? I'll be the first to admit I'm not a perfect person, but I do not actually think I am making anyone's life worse off. I have already done and continue to make valuable contributions to a sector of economics informing public policy on the ramifications of certain financial regulations on social welfare. I published my first paper when I was 20. I am 22, but if you google my name you would see that I am 4th hit and the first image.

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

If I have mistakenly maligned your character Foreveryoung...then I appologize. most earnestly. Your comment "In T2D, the cells are resistant to insulin. Dr B thinks these should have the same dietary intervention and that is stupid,"...I have reread that again. I am still under the impression that you are calling what Dr,. Bernstein says about treatment is 'stupid". Please educate me as to your real meaning if I am wrong. I have seen much on this blog where people who do not work in the field trash people who have come before them who do work in the field. It bores me and dissapoints me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:31 PM

But alas, I will not dispense that information to a stranger who criticizes me online because I disagree with an expert. WHo knows, maybe my contributions in thus far and in the future could inform public policy to the point that it has a direct positive influence on your welfare.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:26 PM

It's fine though. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the best person to have graced the planet, but I'm not actively making it worse for others and I'm sure I've made it better for at least someone. I also contribute fairly heavily to a certain sector of economics community, having published my first paper when I was 20 and having been payed by the Koche Foundation for my time and research on public policy and ramifications certain regulations placed upon the financial sector. You could google my name and see that I am 4th hit and the first image.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:12 PM

Have you been to Nigeria or do you know anything about medical treatment fascilities there? If so then I'm sure you're aware that they are very underprivilaged relative to affluent nations. Well, fortunately now at least one trauma unit in Nigeria now has an electronic database to keep track of and compile records of patients. This will be benefecial in the long run not only to the orginization of the hospital, but for information on where resources could be better allocated, and making it easier to gather epidemiological evidence. Do you know who built that (redcap) database for them?

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 13, 2012
at 03:26 PM

Andre my recommendation to you is to delete all your comments. Besides bad spelling, you have attacked, apologized (you did owe it) and then retracted your apology. You come across as self-righteous, judgmental, petty and angry. Not only that - why are you so defensive. Why not just share in a mature manner what you like about Dr. B. Given your comments and style here, you are not somebody who I would ever seek out or to refer for professional services. You have your name and business advertised here. Think about it.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 13, 2012
at 03:29 PM

Andre my recommendation to you is to delete all your comments. Besides bad spelling (its break, not brake), you have attacked, apologized (you did owe it) and then retracted your apology. You come across as self-righteous, judgmental, petty and angry in this thread. I hope that you are not. Not only that - why are you so defensive? Why not just share in a mature manner what you like about Dr. B. Given your comments and style here, you are not somebody who I would ever seek out or to refer for professional services. You have your name and business advertised here. Think about it

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 08:07 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having received a high quality, liberal arts education. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 10:00 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is something I do not quite relish. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having benefited from liberal arts education. Cheers

149af6e19a06675614dfbb6838a7d7c0

(3202)

on July 13, 2012
at 11:19 AM

As far as reclining in a hammock...yes, I take a brake now and then. However, I have dedicated my life to helping diabetics heal. I work with Dr. Ron Rosedale and I have spent the last 5 years in India doing my field work...on top of the 25 years in the health field. I have now reread your response where you say you meant to call Dr. B's methods stupid. I now retract my apology.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 07:35 PM

@ Andre CHIMENE-Off of the top of my head there are at least a half dozen things you would need to improve upon in order to make your argument approach respectable and cogent. However, offering these would be a waste of my time not only because your ad hominem retorts do nothing to dispense either knowledge or fact, but also because you apparently lack the reading comprehension skills necessary for us to effectively communicate via writing. I guess that's not your area of expertise though- personal training is-and by your logic that would excuse from one knowing anything else. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 07:34 PM

@ Andre CHIMENE-Off of the top of my head there are at least a half dozen things you would need to improve upon in order to make your argument approach respectable and cogent. However, offering these would be a waste of my time not only because your ad hominem retorts do nothing to dispense either knowledge or fact, but also because you apparently lack the reading comprehension skills necessary for us to effectively communicate via writing. I guess that's not your area of expertise though- personal training is-and by your logic that would excuse from knowing anything else. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 07:49 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your reasoning, it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside of personal training, your area of expertise.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 09:56 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having benefited from liberal arts education. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 07:30 PM

@ Andre CHIMENE-Off of the top of my head there are at least a half dozen things you would need to improve upon in order to make your argument half way respectable and cogent, but offering these would be a waste of my time. Not only is this because your ad hominem retorts do nothing to dispense either knowledge or fact, but also because you apparently lack the reading comprehension skills that would be necessary for us to effectively communicate via writing. I guess that's not your area of expertise though- personal training is-and by your logic that would excuse from knowing anything else.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 08:02 PM

@ Chimene- Trying to reason with illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having received a high quality, liberal arts education. Cheers.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 09:59 PM

@ Chimene- I do not relish trying to reason illiterate people who recognize no other form of argument besides ad hominem is a waste of my time. Then again, by your "logic," it would be unreasonable for me to expect you to know anything else outside the realm of personal training, which is your area of expertise. Although I did not learn anything from you, I thank you for reminding me how grateful I am for having benefited from liberal arts education. Cheers.

13
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:30 AM

  1. having so much lean body mass means excellent absorption of carbs
  2. the exercise required to maintain this mass utilises carbs
  3. endocrine profile to support so much mass would further support optimal carb utilisation
  4. genetics would also play a role

I would not jump to any conclusions on steroids. There is no evidence of fluid retention, hypervascularisation, extreme muscle bulk or gynecomastia.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:51 PM

Look at dudes on steroids and then this guy. Totally different. This guy looks great. Natural, fit body. He doesn't look dehydrated at all either. Stop knocking this guy. He lifts, is prolly pretty active, watches what he eats, etc. why attack him?

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 05:44 PM

It is sad that people automatically assume steroids. I don't know nor do I care, but he is innocent until proven guilty.

05055dcbf12c81f1cce777ec365870af

(1791)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:40 PM

his skin is awesome, too.

12
Ef26f888ed248de197c37a4cb04ef4a7

on July 12, 2012
at 09:26 AM

"carbs make you fat" is so 2010.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:29 PM

@thhq, exactly, you just have to know the difference between your mouth and a vacuum cleaner. :)

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:18 PM

Update: carbs and fat CAN make you fat but they don't have to.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:09 PM

As I read in another blog years ago "lady put down that cookie".

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:15 PM

Not to take credit for that one, I think that's paraphrasing Robb Wolf.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 26, 2012
at 08:36 AM

It's far more than simply the case that 'you have to know the difference between your mouth and a vacuum cleaner.' There are significant numbers of people (lots on this site alone) who would feel compelled to 'vacuum' up food if the food in question was carbs and who happily stop eating if the food in question is high in fat, low in carbs. It would be fairer to say that carbs can have this effect in some people and don't have this effect in others.

11
99ac392257e444e014be6d4da6a900e4

(1036)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:19 AM

Genetics. Life isn't fair.

99ac392257e444e014be6d4da6a900e4

(1036)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:02 PM

Not sure if folks are being serious here or not but I've seen the same people at the gym EVERYDAY for the last 15 years and their body comp doesn't change. And I see guys who never set foot in a gym yet are lean and strong yet drink beer and eat fast food. You think genetics don't play a roll in body composition? C'mon. I'd add that the appearance of MOST competitive bodybuilders, fitness models, etc are a result of chemicals and supplements.

A9007c998e3b924deebbe9ebb98d4db6

(340)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:59 AM

No matter what he eats or what genes he got, it takes a lot of work to look that lean and cut.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:05 PM

Genes and diet have so little to do with it. Unless those genes and diet lead you to want to live in a gym...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:22 AM

YEah I bet that guy just sits on his all day and eats crap. LMFAO

81fca18329e68e227cdfef3857bfef96

(1320)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:22 PM

The Swiss Twin study shows that overall health and factors like obesity is only 25% genetics. The remaining 75% is determined by lifestyle. I do not like body building. I think it is silly, non-functional, and somewhat homoerotic but that is my opinion. I cannot deny/somewhat admire their dedication and the sacrifices they make to achieve an ideal.

Medium avatar

(2422)

on January 12, 2013
at 03:23 AM

My college roommate used to come home after a twelve pack or two of beer at the parties with us, sit down to a gallon of cheap ice cream at 2am, and proceed to eat every bite. He didn't train, and I've yet to see a man with a more cut midsection.

10
C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on July 12, 2012
at 02:25 AM

I don't think all people respond to carbs in the same way. Some people can have massive blood sugar spikes from it, and probably should lower the amount they eat. Others like myself do fine with a higher amount. Is being that lean healthy for long term? I'm curious on what his blood levels are especially of B12, C reactive protein, trigs, thyroid, iron, and K2.

A9007c998e3b924deebbe9ebb98d4db6

(340)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:57 AM

Good question regarding long term. That is where a vegan diet usually falls short.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:27 PM

But he looks healthy and I bet he feels great, that's all that matters, right? That's the paleo standard right there. ;)

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:12 PM

You can get enough nutrients to look like this, provided you do the work. Even a paleo could do this.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:18 AM

You can not get all your nutrition from a vegan diet. I'd be willing to bet that there are fat people who are nutrient deficient. Same thing applies to "in shape" vegans and vegetarian.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:05 PM

Most people here use food reward as a way to find the most distasteful thing they could possibly eat. The point - that there's too much easy reward out there - is lost on them, as they go on searching for new ways to make themselves miserable.

Medium avatar

(2422)

on January 12, 2013
at 03:26 AM

With just weight training, can't eat many carbs or ill feel like crap and look the same. If I rock climb or mountaineer for hours on end daily, I can eat more rice than a Chinese dockworker, and get super lean. Go figure.

9
Afc0b8e755ac7cdde6b517fdadb50026

(778)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:05 AM

his carbs probably arent processed starches and sugars

37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

(222)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:08 AM

Very committed to eating "whole foods"...

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:13 AM

Still doesn't address the graph at Mark's daily apple ('incidious weight gain') or Lustigs theory ('fructose is a toxin'), or Taubes theory ('insulin is the devil'). There's something seriously wrong with all those.

37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

(222)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:07 AM

True, he doesn't eat much of processed anything. I believe he even avoids oils...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:09 PM

This guy and Jack Lalanne are an inconvenient truth that demonstrates that it's not about diet at all. The obesity epidemic is a Sedentism epidemic.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:00 PM

Incidious weight gain occurs when eating 100-400 grams of FAT AND ON TOP OF THAT eating 400 grams of Fructose/Glucose. Use your critical thinking skills. And double those #'s for the typical fat a%%.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 26, 2012
at 08:43 AM

@thhq, what about all the evidence from HG/traditional societies that show that they don't expend significantly more calories than post-industrial westerners, e.g. kitavans and hadza

7
E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:22 AM

Harley, Freelee, Doug Graham, none of them are fat, but if you're equating carbs = fat or, worse, not fat = healthy, you've missed the point of nutrition and exercise completely (not to be insulting). First, was he always a vegan? Second, how many supplements does he take? Half the pages I've found with any information about the guy mention nothing about drugs, supplements or past diet--and they all have advertisements for supplements. I lifted weights rigorously when I was younger, and no matter how often I lift now, so long as I eat clean, I still look good. That's not being cocky; I busted my ass (and regardless of what he takes, so did he) to get this physique. Also, now when I go to the gym, even if I've taken a couple of weeks off of intensive weight lifting, I can still make gains easy. When I started, I didn't gain but 2 lbs the first year and a half. Once you get to a certain point, your body will maintain it's look and feel so long as you take care of it. I had cousin (passed away now from a motorcycle accident) who at 40 could do 50 (count 'em, FIFTY) handstand push-ups. He had abs that would make Tyler Durden ala Brad Pitt jealous. And he hadn't lifted weights in fifteen years. In fact, he was homeless for awhile. I worked out with a guy who ate fast food three times a day. Why? Because he loved fast food. Six pack. Genetics can play a massive role in these situations, but it's also an easy copout to say it's all genetics. Genetics + supplements (potentially drugs) + hard work + clean eating (I don't agree with the vegan lifestyle and think the militant group needs to be beaten with ham-hocks, but it is infinitely cleaner than the SAD) = what you see in that picture.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:33 PM

The muscle mass gives you the metabolic advantage. People who lived in paleo times were metabolically robust enough to eat whatever they found. They weren't the picky eaters that we developed into in Neolithic times.

7
26b0f1261d1a0d916825bd0deeb96a21

(5798)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:40 AM

Things that can determine how "fat" you are include: calories, genetics, carbs, hormones, and exercise. He works out, eats adequate calories, and carbs may not be a problem for him, given his genetic make-up and fitness regime.There is no one factor that makes someone "fat".

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on July 12, 2012
at 05:56 PM

Excellent answer.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 15, 2012
at 01:48 PM

Life is just one big multifactorial experiment. Sometimes that includes a bowl of cherries.

6
742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on July 12, 2012
at 01:52 PM

I thought we were past this whole 'carbs make you fat' thing. There is plenty of examples of people on high carb diets that are lean. The Kitavans, Asians, lots of African Tribes, many fruitarians, McDougal starch eaters, etc. I PERSONALLY find it harder to keep my weight on on a high carb diet than I do on a high fat diet. I have been eating 400-500 grams of carbs almost daily since last year, and I am not fat. Eating carbs does not make you fat, eating carbs above YOUR threshold levels (calorie surplus) does.

D05e94d3fa7fbf32eb56445ad932f654

(773)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:04 PM

Let's say two identical guys eat the same below-maintenance calories per day. One eats lots of carbs, and the other mostly fats instead of carbs. Will one lose fat quicker?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:10 PM

@muzzle, they lose at the same rate.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on August 15, 2012
at 07:29 AM

Come on Matt this completely ignores metabolism, nutrient-density,...

6
43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on July 12, 2012
at 09:55 AM

Carbs make you fat, but not him. Because carbs make you fat if you are insulin resistant and have metabolic syndrome.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:39 PM

Running usually fixes the problem better than FODMAPS.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:18 AM

I guess, but then wouldn't reducing carbs be the same as running away from your problems?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:13 PM

Ha, ha, ha! Love it thhq!

6
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:40 AM

In my observations it is usually people who have been on a low carbohydrate diet for a long time who say that carbs make them fat. And perhaps they're right. But science and common sense says otherwise for seemingly the entire rest of the world including type 2 diabetics.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on July 12, 2012
at 06:11 AM

Could be. Some people claim that there is a small segment of the population who do find carbs to be isocalorically fattening and that controlled trials only show the mean and not the outliers. It's all speculation, including my comment.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:19 AM

Or perhaps those on low-carb are on low-carb because they realized that carbs make them fat?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on July 12, 2012
at 05:50 AM

How would they know that carbs made them fat without restricting carbs first? -- In any case the yo-yo effect is well documented. It usually has to do with calories but people swear that they don't increase total calories so it might be a unique effect of carbohydrate restriction like with caloric restriction. People restrict calories and store more energy when they start eating more calories, far more than they would be expected to. Same thing might be true with low carb. A protein sparing modified fast is both and people find that they don't yo-yo as hard if they increase carbs incrementally

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on July 12, 2012
at 05:54 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2613405 That's not the greatest evidence because it's not calorie-controlled, but a gradual reintroduction of carbs preventing the yo-yoing, suggesting that a dramatic increase in carbs after low carbohydrate dieting triggers yo-yoing. Whether it be mediated by calories or metabolic rate, I can't say.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:16 PM

Restricting carbs helped me get rid of T2. It took a lot of exercise to get rid of the underlying obesity. Once insulin sensitivity returned there was no need to restrict carbs any more.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:18 PM

^ Thhq that is wonderful to hear. Good job and keep up the good work.

5
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on July 12, 2012
at 07:42 AM

Some people can use carbs as their primary/only fuel. This is probably due to a combination of genetics and daily intense exercise. I don't know what dude's regimen is but i am sure he is working out eleventeen days per week.

You also don't see any fat tour de france riders. They could probably eat Twinkies all day and stay thin, considering they are burning like 5000 calories per day. This doesn't really have any relevance to regular people who have day jobs and post on paleo hacks.

I am extremely skeptical of any athlete that claims to be vegan because you simply can't get enough nutrients from a vegan diet without lots of supplements. There is no culture or society that is entirely vegan, and there never has been, because they would die off. So this guy might be "vegan" but with huge protein shakes and a mason jar full of supplements every day.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:14 PM

There's definitely some "juicing" in there somewhere.

5
60af23519906aa54b742ffc17477c3d3

(1186)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:28 AM

Agreed that not everyone should "strive" for that type of physique, but why so much hate for bodybuilding? It's a sport like any other. Regardless of what people say, track athletes, professional athletes, marathoners all "put inordinate stress on their body" and at the end of the day don't really make a difference to the world. They run fast and people look up to them, just like bodybuilders (try me at a foot race).

Robert Cheeke is a friend of mine, and I don't agree w the way he eats, but he is definitely a better role model than any SAD eater. Also, let's presume anyone with that type of build is taking "enhancers" to get there. It's extremely hard to compete in bodybuilding, and even with good genetics you probably need help to get that kind of size.

On the inside, that dude is probably not as healthy as paleo eaters, but it works for him. Most Vegans I know look like tired crap, but it's their choice to eat that way. More grass-fed bison for me.

Vince Gironda is a paleo bodybuilder, and Tosca Reno is on a paleo diet right now as well. Or you can just look up to me :)

if-carbs-make-you-fat,-why-is-this-guy-so-lean?

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:26 PM

If you don't strive you're only a superficial paleo. Hunt-and-gather every day. This vegan is more paleo than most paleos.

153c4e4a22734ded15bf4eb35b448e85

(762)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:53 AM

Robert cheeke has really bad stomach problems, has had them for years, but I do agree that he looks great, and he's a really nice person.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 13, 2012
at 05:17 AM

I disagree. I would consider bodybuilding more of an art than a sport, where the canvas is your body. weight lifting is sport. strong man is a sport. bodbybuilding/physique/figure is an art.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 15, 2012
at 01:54 PM

Good point foreveryoung. I have the same problem with the Sisson surfer image thing for the same reason. While a paleo may have better reasons to be fit than a vegan - you don't need a build like this to pull carrots - bodybuilding culture is a Neolithic thing no matter who's doing it.

4
C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 02:27 AM

Some people are more tolerant than others. I have a friend that has tried to gain weight doing everything possible. She is 5'5" 104, and has gone a week of eating 3,000+ kcal and still weight the same. She has done heavy carb, heavy fat, heavy protein, and no weight gain. but most people aren't like that. Most vegans aren't like that and don't look anywhere close to what this guy looks like. Good for him for being able to make it work, because it won't for most people. I am surprised also, but I can only imagine what his potential would be if he didn't eat to reduce his testosterone levels.

37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

(222)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:33 AM

In reading about him, I've wondered about his testosterone, too - it can't be low. As far as most vegans not looking this way, do you think most Paleohacks readers do? I'd be curious to see if the average reader was this muscular...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:29 AM

You can't be that well muscled and lean and have low testosterone levels. I don't think it's physiologically possible.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:20 AM

I'm 5'9 or 10", 5% bodyfat.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:20 PM

The guy looks soft in the ankles...

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:30 AM

Can you have low T and be that jacked? I didn't think it would be physiologically possible.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 03:06 AM

I don't think he has low T, but it would surely be higher than it is if his diet were different. Props to him for swimming upstream. I can assure you it is easier to get that cut on Paleo though. Not sure what the average reader looks like, but I am more ripped on a smaller frame. 5'7" 144, 5% bodyfat, and bench 1RM 305

37c83b0e565455eccdab474a7572552a

(222)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:32 AM

In reading about his testosterone, too - it must be high. As far as most vegans not looking this way, do you think most Paleohacks readers do? I'd be curious to see if the average reader was this muscular...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:39 PM

@thhq, soft in the ankles, meaning?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 13, 2012
at 12:25 AM

Sure that's not the dainty pose he's doing?

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:50 PM

Soft as in delicate-looking...but he may still be lurking around here and the rest of him could kick my ass...

2
E3267155f6962f293583fc6a0b98793e

(1085)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:36 AM

So how old is he? Give him 15 or 20 years and lets see how he is doing. It just takes more time for the carbs to do their damage to some. The carbs may not make him fat but wonder what they might be doing to his brain, and eyes and heart. Also I must agree with Jason's statement "Genetics, life isn't fair"!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:34 PM

Can we give you another 20 years, Deb? Just to see if you're in the same shape you are now. Reality check: nobody is immune to aging and gradual degeneration.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:48 AM

You can really say that about every food. Who knows your meat intake might kill you 2 years from now.

E3267155f6962f293583fc6a0b98793e

(1085)

on July 13, 2012
at 12:58 AM

Who knows if I'll be here in another 20 years as I am 61 now. I know I'll be in better shape in 20 years eating fewer carbs than I would eating 200 or 300 grams a day. But I feel infinitely better physically eating much less carbs than I have in the last 45 years.

0361cceaf703c92f99848b078bfc9f67

(225)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:46 PM

Such a sad, uninformed answer.

2
Medium avatar

on July 12, 2012
at 09:52 AM

Genetics plus steroids can over-ride even the worst diet. Some folks can simply run on any fuel and tolerate anything.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:37 PM

Real paleos ate uncooked carrion....maybe a rotten vegetable too...

Medium avatar

(2422)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:21 PM

I don't do rotten, but raw meat is my top calorie source ;)

2
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on July 12, 2012
at 04:13 AM

He's obviously using steroids, all bets are off.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 11:08 AM

Looks natural to me.

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 12, 2012
at 06:51 AM

THANK YOU ANIMALCULE.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 05:48 PM

agreed, that he doesn't look un natural. He has good musculature, nothing excessive. Props to him for working hard.

9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

(15833)

on July 12, 2012
at 07:37 AM

I had the same thought.

153c4e4a22734ded15bf4eb35b448e85

(762)

on July 12, 2012
at 10:52 AM

I don't know about the steroids, he's not that big, and he doesn't have those steroid "monkey" facial features steroid users get.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:23 PM

Paleos are big on dietary supplements too. I consider that cheating.

C2ecbc6f2948c232d60a639c50b7f4f9

(504)

on October 05, 2012
at 08:10 PM

Hard work, dedication, and sacrifice gets you like that

2
8dbe73235f73c615f20d3d0f34b4852a

(1365)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:27 AM

I think with ANY type of diet, you should look at it while coupled with a "moderate" amount of fitness. Bodybuilders specifically do whatever it takes to look like that DESPITE their diet, not BECAUSE of their diet. That's their JOB. This isn't something they do for 30 minutes every other day. Even without "dropping to unhealthy levels of body fat", I feel like they're inordinately straining their bodies to a point we aren't really meant to operate in for long periods of time. Like some people have hinted at, we're striving for a basic Paleo foundation in our diet and tweaking from there in the hopes that it will benefit the most number of people.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:35 PM

My job as a paleo is to be active. Meat's important but definitely secondary in importance.

1
8634d4988ced45a68e2a79e69cc01835

(1617)

on October 03, 2012
at 09:37 PM

I was lean and eating tons of carbs before paleo too. I LIVED off bread, veggies, some red wine and aged cheese. I ate LOADS of carbs, tons of bread. Guess what I was also doing: lots of cardio. Five days a week. Running and elliptical (hey, it rains!) The only reason I wasn't putting on weight like mad was the mass amounts of cardio I was doing. It can be done. If you burn off those carbs they can't go to fat.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on July 26, 2012
at 10:11 PM

Dianabol+clenbuterol+Weights=muscles. The guy competed in a non-drug tested bodybuilding. Huh. I wonder why. With enough drugs you could eat old tires and tin cans and still be a freak.

1
7cf9f5b08a41ecf2a2d2bc0b31ea6fa0

on July 26, 2012
at 04:08 PM

my friend's dad ate like shit and smoked all the time and lived till 100 or something, so maybe we should all live that way?

1
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 26, 2012
at 08:52 AM

There are plenty of examples of people (esp. young people) who eat almost exclusively junk food and are still perfectly lean. n=1 is fine when you are acting as your own control, pointing out individual cases in isolation tells us almost nothing at all.

1
C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on July 15, 2012
at 08:16 AM

Excess calories make you fat.

1
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:19 PM

Clean liver, enough exercise, insulin sensitive muscles, (maybe some weird semi-legal supplements), lots of lifting, and voila!

0
2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on October 03, 2012
at 08:39 PM

dat bulge .

2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on October 03, 2012
at 08:40 PM

the muscles, i mean >.>

0
51047b6885c2155ea2ed9f40670a806e

on October 03, 2012
at 08:09 PM

I am extremely skeptical of any athlete that claims to be vegan because you simply can't get enough nutrients from a vegan diet without lots of supplements.

I guess people like DurianRider prove you wrong. Many many years on a pretty much meat free diet, very low fat, very low protein. Uses the least amount of supplements anyone I've seen so far. He says only b-12 shots. These high carb low fat guys are SUPER lean, never seen anyone leaner. So Maybe, fat, does make you fat, as well as too many junk calories and being sedentary. Its hard to be THAT lean while still eating fat -or so I've seen- I could be wrong, if there's extreme calorie deficit I guess you could get that lean still eating fat... But this "fruitarians" aren't calorie restricting, or low fat raw or not raw vegans for that matter. They just seem to get ridiculously skinny.

0
1557d441237cf92922354d82009da11e

on July 26, 2012
at 07:35 AM

I eat lot of carbs in my food but I do take natural carb blocker which helps me to reduce the amount of calories being absorbed from staples of the British diet such as white bread, pasta and potatoes.

0
07f28815a1910a2efdd4e46df3cdc6b3

on July 19, 2012
at 08:32 PM

NM wrong place..............

0
Ba09704971e33481f5716c4790648966

(1794)

on July 19, 2012
at 08:03 PM

Photoshop and camera angles.

0
1fb0d32174c8fe555ed30acd39a22e81

on July 12, 2012
at 10:13 PM

Isn't it, carbs make you fat with the fat and protien combined? If you eliminate the protien and fat from the carbs you loose weight and vice versa. Isn't it the fact that the grains lead to degenerative diseases over time the problem. It took me 39+ years before I got sick and one month after eliminating grains to have a clean colonoscopy. Genetics are definately a factor also but, isn't it more about health. Also men tend to store fat inside more. There are a lot of skinny fat people out there him not being one of them. BTW I love bodybuilders soooo sexy!

0
B59aa92584dca1dc8c36b67e454e28c6

on July 12, 2012
at 05:38 PM

Website for this image

The Prodigy: INBA Mr Teen Australia Eddy Ung Talks With Simplyshredded.com ...

simplyshredded.com Full-size image 610 × 452 (Same size), 160KB More sizes Search by image Similar images Image details:

Type:

JPG

Date:

Oct 13, 2011

Camera:

Nikon D5100

More image info

Images may be subject to copyright.

Cutting diet: •Meal1: 1 cup of Oats, 1 scoop Protein Shake •Meal 2: Small amount of Brown Rice, 1 Chicken Breast, Broccoli, Asparagus •Pre Training: NO2. •Post Training: 1.5 scoops Protein Shake + 75g DEXTROSE •Meal 3: Beef/Kangaroo/Fish, Sweet Potato and Broccoli •Meal 4: Chicken/ Tuna Salad •Meal 5: 4 Eggs (closer to comp 3 Egg Whites and 1 whole Egg) •Meal 6: Max’s Nightime Shake

0
6ba8b4ef453010c8ae07f7b9de32130c

on July 12, 2012
at 01:21 PM

Because he is a body builder on a very restricted diet. He had to water deplete for those pictures and competitions. You can train for a competition and eat tons of clean carbs and a no fat no salt no sugar diet. You cannot compare what he is doing to a normal life. It is intense and crazy hard to live in that state year round.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 05:48 PM

Love the water depleted lawn comment!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:18 PM

Doesn't look water depleted at all in the first pic (unless you're talking about his lawn in the background). The second pic doesn't look particularly dehydrated either, no vasculature showing, few striation in musculature...

0
4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

on July 12, 2012
at 06:46 AM

Steriods and/or genetics

0
531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on July 12, 2012
at 02:58 AM

I really wish there were some Paleo weight lifting role models. Robert Cheeke is another vegan bodybuilder (see pic). He's written a book and has a huge online following.

if-carbs-make-you-fat,-why-is-this-guy-so-lean?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:17 AM

Nice. Bodybuilding is silly.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:16 AM

I actually I agree that Cheeke does not have an admirable physique to me. BUt I also think that competitive bodybuilding is silly.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 03:56 AM

Your very welcome.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on July 12, 2012
at 12:32 PM

@raisefitness, I'd wager most bodybuilders in the off season are in better shape than 90% of paleos. Stronger too.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:40 AM

That dude is so yellow/orange. He looks like a shiny carrot, or a tall ompah-lumpa.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 03:13 AM

Bodybuilders aren't good role models anyway. They drop to unhealthy levels of bodyfat for competition, and most have show muscles but are not very strong in movement or lifting. They portray a false image that graces the covers of magazines and makes people want to achieve what they themselves only achieve for a few weeks a year.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:10 AM

*never won* I meant.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 05:47 PM

@Matt....probably so.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:10 AM

Not at all impressed by this physique (go ahead and down vote me for my haughtiness). Myself and several of my friends all looked infinitely better than this when we did bodybuilding in our teens (completely drug free). Maybe there's a better photograph of him out there (I'll Google later), but this just does not impress. By the way, in the competitions I did/went to vegan bodybuilders never one, and DESPITE what durianrider and company might say, it had nothing to do with steroids (they were all taking them, even the vegans).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:26 AM

..and that picture is fucking awesome, Dude. Wish I were that good at climbing.

531b053b68e92ac509fc1544f88dc103

(1205)

on July 12, 2012
at 04:24 PM

Regardless, it would be great if there was a paleo bodybuilding role model out there. Everything sports related in the paleo world is either endurance or cross-fit based.

61f9349ad28e3c42d1cec58ba4825a7d

(10490)

on July 12, 2012
at 03:47 AM

Why, thank you for that picture, RaiseFitness. That's some awful nice scenery ;)

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 03:16 AM

Practical muscle is better. I was heavier during this pic. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cXazIz_f1nc/TCi_UKsMrnI/AAAAAAAAAZE/QgYEMFTalTI/s1600/super+best+friends+12b.JPG From 3 yrs ago.

7636e1e02ef91a46f20a42e07b565a4b

(367)

on July 13, 2012
at 06:23 AM

Raise, yes I did the "scenery" too. :) I commute up to CU in Boulder and wish I were as outdoorsy as many of those folks, as it is gorgeous, uh, scenery, but I spose I'm one of the poser paleos who mostly focus on diet. But in spite of Boulder's very paleo active-outdoorsiness, being vegetarian or vegan is incredibly trendy. Oh well.

Medium avatar

(2422)

on July 12, 2012
at 09:19 PM

Raise, youre a big guy for a climber. Nice route though. All that muslcle must make you like those big, juggy overhangs ;)

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 12, 2012
at 10:31 PM

I am only 5'7" 144. not that big, but a little bulky for climbing, for sure.

Baa413654789b57f3579474ca7fa43d7

(2349)

on July 26, 2012
at 04:18 PM

Is he Tebowing?

-3
77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 19, 2012
at 07:36 PM

Y'all support this http://www.meat.org/. Watch it if you have the stomach for it. You probably don't though with all that meat rumblin' around undigested in your intestines. I'm sure you can watch the whole video, unless of course you have too much fear instilled in you. HMMMM where would the source of this fear be coming from? I would imagine its from the blood of all these animals that you support the slaughtering of....

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 19, 2012
at 08:12 PM

Medium Rare all the way!

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Undigested meat? What the? I would think thats what happens with all that plant cellulose the human cant digest because of our shrunken appendix, after all most plant matter digestion occurs in the bowel, and alot of it just comes out the other end. I dont see chunks of beef in my bowel movements, but I do see plants, especially things like corn (which i dont eat anymore) and nuts. Its plants that the human body has trouble with. Fat and protein we are made for. As far as slaughtering, i wouldnt mind learning to hunt and do it myself.

F5be4be097edc85690c12d67ee1a27c0

(1884)

on July 19, 2012
at 08:07 PM

I know my steak is just right when blood is consuming the plate it sits upon.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:37 AM

Your brain needs de-cult-programming, if you beleive that "undigested meat" nonsense. Be a vegan for purely philosophical reasons (then again, even trees eat the dead, eating other beings is natures way of fighting entropy) if you so choose, but dont buy into all those nonsense myths.!

4ef079c57d2140bba4dbf4e30240a645

(4413)

on July 31, 2012
at 06:22 PM

Why are you even on this website? Get a hobby

74786bbe8254844304a33943290c4d6d

(1663)

on November 20, 2012
at 01:45 PM

Why are you here? Why do you feel the need to chastise meat eaters? No one likes death, of any kind, unless you are a blooming sociopath. Meat and fat sustains and nourishes and has for thousands of years, case closed. You have no moral high ground whatsoever just because you refuse to eat meat. Thanks for coming out.

74786bbe8254844304a33943290c4d6d

(1663)

on November 20, 2012
at 01:43 PM

Why are you here? Why do you feel the need to chastise meat eaters? No one likes death, of any kind, unless you are a bloom sociopath. Meat and fat sustains and nourishes and has for thousands of years, case closed. You have no moral high ground whatsoever just because you refuse to eat meat. Thanks for coming out.

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on November 21, 2012
at 01:14 AM

Well primalpat, I am here because I eat a true paleo diet and I come here seeking testimonials to tweek my diet into what I find to be optimal. WHy are you here?? Let me add that you dont eat true paleo as I do, so maybe youre the one in the wrong place. I only eat wild fish because that's what true paleo means to me. Eating hybrid chickens, cows, and pigs is not at all paleo in my honest opinion. Were there chickens thousands of years ago? NO. Were there cows? NO. Were there disgusting pigs that spend their time in mud? NO. Were there WILD fish? YES. So seeing that you joined 6days ago...

-4
082f6b95ed95d9d9dd5a2c0c7bd50e41

on July 12, 2012
at 08:06 PM

Razwell's brother is a better bodybuilder than BOTH of those guys.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on July 12, 2012
at 08:20 PM

Enough with the bold type. Seriously, don't make me smack you.

-5
77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 19, 2012
at 04:01 AM

Commercial animals are 10-50% fat (50% being sausage concoctions). Wild animals were never more than 5% fat, being that they had to be lean in order to survive like their hunter-gathering counterparts. SO that fat being usually about 20% by weight will stick to your thighs, abdomen, butt, and what have you. Ive been a long time paleo-hacker and in the last few months ive become a strict kosher-vegetarian. SOrry to break the bad news to yall but this is the way God intended us to eat. Our brain runs on glucose and we make our own cholesterol. I see veganism as too extreme, thus i eat in a vegetarian fashion, goat milk and yogurt, organic whey, and pasture raised eggs ftw. After eating heavy meats for the last year of my life, all-be-it, organic and mostly lean (BY OUR STANDARDS), I simply cant do it any longer. I promise you will all feel better after cutting out dead animals from your diets. Carbs become much more available to your muscles when they can digest easily. Take this guy for example, his carbs are extraordinarily available to his muscles and it shows. If youre worried about protein, ill fill you in on the secret of pro-bodybuilders, HEMP SEEDS are one of the best protein sources as they are 65% globular estidin, the type that most resembles our own. And your body has a very hard time distinguishing between animal proteins and our own cells, causing our digestive juices to not function properly as we risk digesting our own cells along with the animal cells. This is the truth and you will all feel better if you stop eating non-kosher meats filled with blood from animals that were very fearful before being slaughtered. You all still live in fear if you eat commercial meats and once you get rid of them from your diet, your fear will leave your body in dramatic fashion. I was about 8% BF as a carnivore, and i am now 6% BF with some abs to boot. Trust me and God on this one guys, dont be afraid to change your lifestyle for the better. ANd paleo has its place in a strict diet but grains and legumes arent your enemy, only poorly prepared grains and legumes. Our ancestors knew this and would tediously soak and sprout most of their foods, making them much much easier to digest. Overall, drop the animal products for a few days, choose more whole foods full of fiber, which our digestive system runs and moves smoothly on and i promise you wont regret it. And all the while youll get more in touch with your higher self. Look into your hearts and think about all the animals that die every day for our western lifestyle habits. THOU SHALL NOT KILL REALLY MEANS THOU SHALL NOT MURDER, INCLUDING OUR ANIMAL FRIENDS. Lastly, respect a kosher lifestyle and stop combining milk (life fluid) with blood (death fluid). This is all inspired by the hand of God as everything we humans do in good intention is...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:25 AM

Breathe deep. Open wide and say ommmmmm. Let the kosher pastrami heal you.

07f28815a1910a2efdd4e46df3cdc6b3

(120)

on July 19, 2012
at 08:34 PM

Along as we are talking about magical thinking, I might as well eat some lion hearts to counter the fear blood Im eating. Im trying to finish this elephant penis soup right now...

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 19, 2012
at 03:54 PM

-1. I love a good vegan speed rap, but the Hebrew God loves the smell of burnt meat. What part of kosher are you having a problem with?

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:54 AM

Mind you he's eating eggs, but hed need to eat alot to make up for the meat hes skipping. Certainly something weird is going on with his brain nutrients/aminos.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 19, 2012
at 03:59 PM

The ten commandments don't mention animal friends in the part about thou shalt not kill either. This is edging towards a Monty Python-ish Life of Brian style of religion. I'm tempted to vote you up on the grounds of pure Dada. But to be truly dada you'd recognize the importance of veal....

A7925ab8ea44e6d4d5d7c6f202632c6c

(404)

on July 19, 2012
at 06:55 AM

"God intended us to eat" ----- this is where i stopped reading: if someone starts to utilize some unidentified entities like god, aliens, angry gremlins or whatever, any discussion with such a person becomes meaningless...

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 19, 2012
at 05:47 PM

I will admit that mainstream religion is fucked up and twisted. The catholic church has enough money to feed the whole world. However, our brother Jesus Christ knew how to live in a way that never disconnected him from God. The gospels have all be interpreted through many languages and rarely is there any true meaning in it all. But, the 4 things that Jesus definitely did preach and try to spread into our world were 1.) VEGETARIANISM, 2.) Fasting, 3.) Prayer, and 4.) Meditation. These are all very easy steps to connect back to your God-consciousness of all-that-is.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:48 AM

Is a lack of choline in the brain making this guy become disassociative? I notice that often happens with vegans etc. Its not too different from smoking datura. Ground control to major tom?

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 19, 2012
at 05:43 PM

Are you guys AFRAID of change?? It seems to me like you are....hmmm I think im smelling the FEAR through my compute. Or maybe thats just my body detoxing all the old gross animal blood that ive consumed for 20 years of my life... not certain.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 19, 2012
at 08:15 PM

Any argument that begins with "God intended us to eat" loses right off the bad. Funny, that in your bible, Jesus told Peter, to "rise, kill and eat"....and Jesus himself was not agains killing, but against Murder. There is a difference. Able's sacrifice was not excepted, but Cain's was.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 03:02 AM

Ground control to major tom! Not exactly good PR for what vegetarianism can do to your brain. If it werent for the eggs (dunno how many your eating, but your not eating choline or amino rich meat, so it would need to be alot to compensate), id suggest a lack of choline, which can produce a disassociative datura like state, vegans often confuse with spirituality. But just in case try this- eat five of those eggs for breakfast, and two for dinner, with an avocado or two, and a glass of milk over the next few days and see if it makes you feel less spaced out.

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on July 19, 2012
at 05:41 PM

By all means continue to let animal carcasses rot in your ass-holes until you get colon cancer like every one else in this country. im just expressing what god channels me to say and thats all we can do as the SPIRIRUAL BEINGS we are. If you wanna live like animals and kill, then be my guest. Im only offering words to the wise. But if you dont have ears to listen or eyes to see then i guess this will be fairly meaningless to you.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:45 AM

I cant eat carbs. They make me very sick. I cant have most dairy either. If I was vegetarian, I would probably die. Oh, and the God of the bible is the biggest serial killer there is. Fat lot of sense him telling us "thou shalt not kill" is. Id take that same advice about as seriously if it came from hilter.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 03:07 AM

Youll get more fat, more choline, more tryptophan and more tryrosine for your brain. Unless your also missing b12 (which is also probable), this is a vegatarian way of compensating for your lack of amino acid foods. Maybe add a vegan b12 supplement in there too. By the end of a few days of that (mega amounts of eggs + avocada + milk + some b12 supplements), theres a good chance your vague "light" distracted, memory low, mental state will evapourate (if thats indeed what you have, brain nutritional deficiences, but it certainly sounds like it)

Medium avatar

(10601)

on July 20, 2012
at 02:22 AM

Your YELlING is making me FEARful paleo12. Fearful that you've been smoking too much of that hemp. You need a brainzzz transfusion maybe? Relax and have some pastrami. CLEANSE yourself of those rotting potatoes in your guts.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 20, 2012
at 06:22 AM

(Actually concentrated milk sources like cheese would be better for tyrosine)

77188106a9c27a22ad47d0ef7318de7a

(922)

on August 01, 2012
at 05:25 AM

haha you people still eating cooked foods.....i only eat raw foods because they contain energy and enzymes. RAW fruits, leaves, milks, honey, nuts, and seeds. just keep eating animal flesh and support all the slaughterhouses and murder that goes on daily. oh and youre at least eating organic meat right? good heavens if you are not....but i mean antibiotics and steroids arent bad to eat through your food are they? i bet those can mess with your brain chemistry a lot more than any raw, natural foood can. but hey keep doing what youre doing...

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