2

votes

I Am So Not Seeing Many Benefits from Ketosis Right Now. Ideas Welcome

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 20, 2013 at 6:21 AM

I started at 200 lbs (@ 5 ' 3") in mid-April. I don't cheat, don't eat dairy, grains of any kind. Do consume meat, veggies (especially leafy ones), almonds, coconut and olive oil.
My carbs were around 100g daily, I wasn't counting calories or much else besides carbs. I dropped about 11 pounds by May 29, and have been stuck there ever since. Curiously, I've been tracking my food and have been in ketosis since mid-May. At that point, I got my carbs down to 40, then 30. My food profile: 30g carbs (7%), 90g protein (22%); 1216 g fat (69%)

I also increased my fat and ate about 1,600 calories daily (based on my keto calculator profile and desire to lose about 50 pounds). I also lift 4X weekly and walk a couple of miles 3 or more times a wee). Still in ketosis. This week, I cut out sweet potatoes, and chocolate (except for 2 small squares of dark chocolate today--still under my carb count). And coffee. My hunger has plummeted. I am having a very hard time eating more than 1400 calories a day.

Here's what I ate today: 2 oz ground beef (grass fed), 2 eggs scrambled in 1 tsp of coconut oil, 1 cup of beef broth, 3 tbsp of soaked raw pumpkin seeds, 2 cups of organic salad greens Lunch/Dinner: 1 cup of salad greens, 3 tbs of vinaigrette, 1 roasted chicken thigh (large), 1 avocado. Snacks: 1/4 sauerkraut (raw) 1 tbsp almond butter. 2 squares dark chocolate. Results: 20g carbs, 116 fat, 60 protein 1404 cals. I am still in ketosis, also have lost about 8 inches (only measured twice in a 3-week period).

I now wonder if being in ketosis is such good thing. My mental health is good, my energy levels are improving, and I'm recovering my physical now that I am hydrating and supplementing my minerals. But I'm not losing weight and my sleep is all over the place--I have to nap and sleep deeply but am waking up very early in the morning (maybe that's my natural wake-up time).

I know some people cheat or do carb loads but getting off of grains and sugar was such hell I don't want to do it again.

My questions: should I just stay the course? increase the healthy carbs? Biggest question: what do people do when they aren't hungry but are eating way below their necessary food intake? Ack.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on July 08, 2013
at 05:18 AM

I have been taking care of the magnesium pretty carefully--I was QUITE deficient, it seems (I'm talking taking 600-700mg daily and no loose stools). The D3 reminder is especially valuable, as I am dark-skinned and therefore don't absorb as much D from the sun as those who aren't. And you are so right--the sleep HAS sorted itself out! I've had sleep problems for years. Now I get tired around 10 pm, and wake up around 6. I'm also fortunately getting up less to pee. Hope one day soon to sleep through the night. Thanks again.

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

(3150)

on June 30, 2013
at 06:50 AM

Yes, I remember! Thanks for coming back for the reminder, hope it's not lost again ;)

197651282ddd8d675b974ee811d2269e

(1836)

on June 29, 2013
at 08:37 PM

Well done, PortlandPandy! Keep it up till you're a lean mean fighting machine.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on June 29, 2013
at 04:59 AM

You are welcome! Your sleep should sort itself out, but make sure you are D3 and Magnesium sufficient.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:43 AM

Also, if this is true, why are so many people able to lose significant amounts of weight by eating high-fat, low carb? Also, it doesn't appear as if you actually read my post. I need about 2000 cal daily, and I'm eating under 1600. Why are you even *telling me* about people who need 2000 and eat 4000?

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:38 AM

Albert83BCN--as I have with others, you should know I responded to your comment but I was one of several whose posts got wiped in a site reload. Anyway--yes, I am impatient and need to chill. I did up my carbs to 40g/daily, still in ketosis, and the mood and energy are a lot better. In fact, I hardly nap at all now. Thanks.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:35 AM

But I *am* providing dietary glucose via 40g carbs daily (though still in ketosis. And I'm not sure why you are assuming I am eating excess fat...or protein. I am still eating at a caloric deficit, so none of this makes sense.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:30 AM

Dragonfly-my reply to you got wiped in some kind of site reload, but pls know I did respond right away. I so appreciate the reminder that fat loss isn't linear. (I think a tattoo might be a good idea...) I think, I've forgotten, somehow, that women tend to lose weight more slowly than men, even while eating paleo. Thanks for the links, too. I also went to paleomom.com and read her stuff on nuts and eggs (and caffeine) and have let those go for a while (I'm on a nut vacation!--I tell my friends). I appreciate your help.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:26 AM

Iceman--thank and yes (and pls know I did respond a day after you posted, but several folks--including me) got their comments wiped during a site reload or something). Congratulations to you on your weight loss! That gives me hope. re: the scale, I was jumping on it every day, and it was making me crazy. Definitely not a good motivator. (I am now using the tape measure every couple of weeks--and that is very helpful). And thank you for your kind words, and encouragement. I will and am staying the course.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:21 AM

NewPaleon--thank you for this and your compliment. As mentioned earlier up my comments (and those of several other folks got wiped out). I responded to you weeks ago. I took your advice and stopped eating the nuts--all nuts. In fact, I put my jar of almond butter in the freezer so I wouldn't be tempted. The transition has been much easier than I expected. I think that's because I'm now supplementing more and more effectively. And you're right--I've lost about 3.5 inches [!!] from my stomach, about 2 from my ribs (which really means my back is less fat) and about 2.5 around my butt. Yowza!

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:16 AM

Mentioned in my disappeared post--I'm not going to do a carb refeed because (according to Sisson) that tool should be used by people who are very close to their goal weight--and that ain't me (yet).

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:15 AM

A lot of my answers were wiped out (as is true for several other folks) around 6/21. But I did increase the carbs back to 40g/daily and am finding that it really makes a difference--as does boosting the electrolyte minerals. And probably do have cortisol issues: both from a long history of anxiety and years on ADD meds (which I stopped taking 3+ years ago). I'm also drinking bone broth daily, and have given up caffeine and chocolate to let my poor little adrenals have a bit of a holiday. Thanks.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:12 AM

Ack. It was 126g.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 25, 2013
at 12:07 PM

This is why people can eat at a "caloric-surplus" and be low carb and not gain weight -- essentially it takes energy for the body to complete GNG and the body extracts fat (though measured in grams you can convert at 9 Kcal/g) to convert gram for gram. So you only consume about 10% of the energy above your maintenance calorie need. That is to say if you need 2000 kCal in a day, and eat 4000 kCal, and are low carb. With GNG you only consumed ~200 kCal over your maintenance (which is noise with our ability to measure)

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 25, 2013
at 12:03 PM

read up on gluconeogenesis -- basics, in the absence of dietary glucose, the body cannot live on ketones alone -- so the body makes its own glucose. It will use excess fat/protein/whatever and convert it to glucose. If you are not at enough of a calorie surplus, it will start to break down muscle (which it prefers over body fat) to create glucose. That glucose release will cause an insulin response. In fact, eating a big meal --- regardless of the macros -- will cause a similar insulin response. Eating moderate fat and carbs (~50-100g/day) will limit the insulin response.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 25, 2013
at 05:57 AM

And CD--I still haven't found anything to support your assertion re eating fat--unless it is truly excessive, and that isn't the case here, as you can see from my original post. Your thoughts?

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 25, 2013
at 05:53 AM

No...as others have pointed out, there are many reasons a person doesn't lose weight even being in a caloric deficit. I am eating around (now) 1500 calories daily, still under the 1600 the keto calculator suggests I should eat to lose about 2.5-3 pounds a week. And when I (regretabl)y consumed artificial sweeteners for 10 days, I hit an incredible stall.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on June 25, 2013
at 03:30 AM

if the poster was in a caloric deficit he would be losing fat/weight

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on June 20, 2013
at 10:55 PM

If you read the article and comments, you will see that a refeed is really only helpful if you are no longer obese. This is not the case for the OP.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on June 20, 2013
at 09:18 PM

I suspect that was 216 g, lol!

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 20, 2013
at 01:49 PM

eating fat will cause an insulin response via GNG

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on June 20, 2013
at 01:44 PM

The poster is at a calorie deficit anyway, so it's not really important contextually. To answer your question though - you would think, I suppose, but I don't know for sure as eating fat doesn't cause an insulin response. Is there another fat storing mechanism?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 20, 2013
at 01:40 PM

30g Carbs, 90g Protein, 1216g Fat = 11424 kilo-calories.... That could be your problem

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on June 20, 2013
at 01:12 PM

Even someone eating 'good fat' in excess will lead him/her to putting on fat surely... .

Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

7 Answers

3
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on June 20, 2013
at 12:22 PM

Remember that fat loss isn't linear and it is normal to stall.

Sounds like you are actually doing really well!

You might try lifting heavier less often and do more gentle walking.

Here are some tips that should help:

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-i/

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/saturated-fat/tips-tricks-for-starting-or-restarting-low-carb-pt-ii/

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:30 AM

Dragonfly-my reply to you got wiped in some kind of site reload, but pls know I did respond right away. I so appreciate the reminder that fat loss isn't linear. (I think a tattoo might be a good idea...) I think, I've forgotten, somehow, that women tend to lose weight more slowly than men, even while eating paleo. Thanks for the links, too. I also went to paleomom.com and read her stuff on nuts and eggs (and caffeine) and have let those go for a while (I'm on a nut vacation!--I tell my friends). I appreciate your help.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on June 29, 2013
at 04:59 AM

You are welcome! Your sleep should sort itself out, but make sure you are D3 and Magnesium sufficient.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on July 08, 2013
at 05:18 AM

I have been taking care of the magnesium pretty carefully--I was QUITE deficient, it seems (I'm talking taking 600-700mg daily and no loose stools). The D3 reminder is especially valuable, as I am dark-skinned and therefore don't absorb as much D from the sun as those who aren't. And you are so right--the sleep HAS sorted itself out! I've had sleep problems for years. Now I get tired around 10 pm, and wake up around 6. I'm also fortunately getting up less to pee. Hope one day soon to sleep through the night. Thanks again.

2
048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

on June 20, 2013
at 07:25 AM

Well, you have lost a good deal of weight and report to feel good and have good energy levels so... what are you worrying about?

This will depend a lot because its an intense subject of debate but ketogenic diets are supposed to reverse metabolic diseases, enhance cognitive function, lower inflammation and enhance exercise recovery, as well as having steady energy, less reactive oxygen species generation, aid in longevity long term, be cancer suppressing... I think you have grasped some of this benefits right now so in the end you're the best one to tell if you find worth reverting to the old style, keeping like this, or find a compromise (upping carbs a little bit as you suggested).

I'm right now experimenting with keto also, only sides I'd report right now is that they might not suit a very demanding athlete that needs to perform a lot on the glycolithic pathway as this might be too much for a keto diet, although some think that with proper, long adaptation even this can be achieved with better outcome in terms of health. I'd say that reproductive function and mood could lower a little bit on keto diet due to general lowered metabolism (lowered free T3 conversion) that might have something to do in that the keto diet mimics a little bit starvation, I guess this can be hacked but right now I'm still experimenting.

You could try to keep like this for a little bit longer (I guess you'll see some more body composition enhancements with time, don't be impatient) but if you have to up your carbs, I'd do it when your climate is best suited for it (when you have hotter temperature and longest day light cycles) and eat the carb sources that are naturally found in your area.

But to be sure that you're doing fine (or not) would be comprehensive blood testing IMHO.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:38 AM

Albert83BCN--as I have with others, you should know I responded to your comment but I was one of several whose posts got wiped in a site reload. Anyway--yes, I am impatient and need to chill. I did up my carbs to 40g/daily, still in ketosis, and the mood and energy are a lot better. In fact, I hardly nap at all now. Thanks.

048dd52752c45129c1212bfffb37ca72

(3150)

on June 30, 2013
at 06:50 AM

Yes, I remember! Thanks for coming back for the reminder, hope it's not lost again ;)

1
197651282ddd8d675b974ee811d2269e

on June 20, 2013
at 08:31 PM

I would cut out the almond butter/ nuts in general. Nuts are the biggest obstacle to losing weight for me and my hubby. Otherwise, I think you are doing great, even if your weight has not changed much. You said you lost 8 inches but not where -- at the waist, I assume? If that's true, then you are getting pretty impressive results for two months. You must be gaining muscle, which is much heavier than fat. For example, in the last 10 months, I only lost 16 lbs but 4 inches from my waist and 3-4 pant sizes. I feel completely transformed.

197651282ddd8d675b974ee811d2269e

(1836)

on June 29, 2013
at 08:37 PM

Well done, PortlandPandy! Keep it up till you're a lean mean fighting machine.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:21 AM

NewPaleon--thank you for this and your compliment. As mentioned earlier up my comments (and those of several other folks got wiped out). I responded to you weeks ago. I took your advice and stopped eating the nuts--all nuts. In fact, I put my jar of almond butter in the freezer so I wouldn't be tempted. The transition has been much easier than I expected. I think that's because I'm now supplementing more and more effectively. And you're right--I've lost about 3.5 inches [!!] from my stomach, about 2 from my ribs (which really means my back is less fat) and about 2.5 around my butt. Yowza!

0
18e6c4a8d6c466e53e046bb808e0b412

on June 20, 2013
at 09:37 PM

You could try a refeed, which is a planned "carb up". It's doesn't have to be done with grains or sugar, sweet potatoes and other carby veggies would work.

Here's Mark Sisson's article on it: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/carb-refeeding-and-weight-loss/#axzz2WnJsGGQN

If you're waking up in the middle of the night early or needing naps, that could be a sign of cortisol issues. A refeed can help reset thyroid, adrenals, etc. that might help with this.

I started adding in refeeds when I have trouble sleeping and energy is low during workouts. It helps with both and often kick started my weight loss again too.

I second increasing the carbs. That may help stimulate the hunger too.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on June 20, 2013
at 10:55 PM

If you read the article and comments, you will see that a refeed is really only helpful if you are no longer obese. This is not the case for the OP.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:15 AM

A lot of my answers were wiped out (as is true for several other folks) around 6/21. But I did increase the carbs back to 40g/daily and am finding that it really makes a difference--as does boosting the electrolyte minerals. And probably do have cortisol issues: both from a long history of anxiety and years on ADD meds (which I stopped taking 3+ years ago). I'm also drinking bone broth daily, and have given up caffeine and chocolate to let my poor little adrenals have a bit of a holiday. Thanks.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:16 AM

Mentioned in my disappeared post--I'm not going to do a carb refeed because (according to Sisson) that tool should be used by people who are very close to their goal weight--and that ain't me (yet).

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 20, 2013
at 02:16 PM

[EDIT: hater / troll]

0
Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on June 20, 2013
at 12:08 PM

Perhaps you need to eat less fat. Eating good fat doesn't cause you to put on fat, but it can stop you burning it.

It's a good idea to experiment with and vary your macronutrient ratios a bit in general. What works for one person, doesn't work for another, and what worked for you last month may not work anymore as your body composition, metabolism and general nutrient requirements are different now.

I tend to work on the basis of some foods are good foods and other ones aren't really food at all, then I eat the good ones only based on what my body is asking for (some days no carbs, other days a bit, other days maybe a fair amount). The main successes for me come from avoiding gluten, PUFA, yeast, dairy and eating whole foods, best quality I can, beyond that.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on June 25, 2013
at 03:30 AM

if the poster was in a caloric deficit he would be losing fat/weight

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on June 20, 2013
at 01:12 PM

Even someone eating 'good fat' in excess will lead him/her to putting on fat surely... .

Bfddc0ab925c8ea0e0c2e87198514907

on June 20, 2013
at 01:44 PM

The poster is at a calorie deficit anyway, so it's not really important contextually. To answer your question though - you would think, I suppose, but I don't know for sure as eating fat doesn't cause an insulin response. Is there another fat storing mechanism?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 25, 2013
at 12:03 PM

read up on gluconeogenesis -- basics, in the absence of dietary glucose, the body cannot live on ketones alone -- so the body makes its own glucose. It will use excess fat/protein/whatever and convert it to glucose. If you are not at enough of a calorie surplus, it will start to break down muscle (which it prefers over body fat) to create glucose. That glucose release will cause an insulin response. In fact, eating a big meal --- regardless of the macros -- will cause a similar insulin response. Eating moderate fat and carbs (~50-100g/day) will limit the insulin response.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 25, 2013
at 05:57 AM

And CD--I still haven't found anything to support your assertion re eating fat--unless it is truly excessive, and that isn't the case here, as you can see from my original post. Your thoughts?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 25, 2013
at 12:07 PM

This is why people can eat at a "caloric-surplus" and be low carb and not gain weight -- essentially it takes energy for the body to complete GNG and the body extracts fat (though measured in grams you can convert at 9 Kcal/g) to convert gram for gram. So you only consume about 10% of the energy above your maintenance calorie need. That is to say if you need 2000 kCal in a day, and eat 4000 kCal, and are low carb. With GNG you only consumed ~200 kCal over your maintenance (which is noise with our ability to measure)

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 20, 2013
at 01:49 PM

eating fat will cause an insulin response via GNG

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:35 AM

But I *am* providing dietary glucose via 40g carbs daily (though still in ketosis. And I'm not sure why you are assuming I am eating excess fat...or protein. I am still eating at a caloric deficit, so none of this makes sense.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 25, 2013
at 05:53 AM

No...as others have pointed out, there are many reasons a person doesn't lose weight even being in a caloric deficit. I am eating around (now) 1500 calories daily, still under the 1600 the keto calculator suggests I should eat to lose about 2.5-3 pounds a week. And when I (regretabl)y consumed artificial sweeteners for 10 days, I hit an incredible stall.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:43 AM

Also, if this is true, why are so many people able to lose significant amounts of weight by eating high-fat, low carb? Also, it doesn't appear as if you actually read my post. I need about 2000 cal daily, and I'm eating under 1600. Why are you even *telling me* about people who need 2000 and eat 4000?

-1
Cb707cb9ab8a4ad743638a0c43c3f278

(105)

on June 20, 2013
at 01:43 PM

I think you should avoid the weight scale as a measure tool of your goals. Use measuring tape or clothing size instead. Since you're excercising four times a week, especially weight lifting, I would not consider my weight as an appropriate smoke signal from your body. If you lift regularly, the weight will go up no doubt, hence the weight scale is not a good motivation.

I am also in ketosis, almost three months by now (with a week or so break because of being ill, drinking tea with honey) started on 213 pounds and 5'9". I don't excercise, following paleo diet, trying to fly below 50 g of carbohydrates a day. So far I lost 33 pounds and I can donate my old clothes to my fat friends. However, my goal is not some weight scale value, but the clothing size M (less than 34). I step on the weight scale once in a month just because I am curious and people are asking me how much did I lost so far.

Just stay on the course, eat when you're hungry, eat healthy carbs as much as you needed when excercise and use different method to measure your progress. Good luck :)

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e

on June 29, 2013
at 04:26 AM

Iceman--thank and yes (and pls know I did respond a day after you posted, but several folks--including me) got their comments wiped during a site reload or something). Congratulations to you on your weight loss! That gives me hope. re: the scale, I was jumping on it every day, and it was making me crazy. Definitely not a good motivator. (I am now using the tape measure every couple of weeks--and that is very helpful). And thank you for your kind words, and encouragement. I will and am staying the course.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!