3

votes

How Many Grams of Carbs Keep the Average Person Out of Ketosis?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 10, 2011 at 11:24 PM

I realize that this is highly variable, but what number of grams have you guys found to be the threshold? I suppose if you are right at the threshold, you'll be passing in and out of it, so maybe we'd want a 10g buffer or something?

Personally, I'd like to stay outside of it, but only just, and am wondering what the general rule of thumb is these days. I do strength-increasing workouts and walk around a lot, but I avoid what most consider to be "exercise."

I was at 3 servings of fruit a day for a while (roughly 75g of carbs) but feel like I might be able to go a little lower. I think the 3 cups (pre-cooked) of steamed spinach would add a largely negligible amount. The 50g of natto per day has something like 5-7g. No other beans or legumes to speak of.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on March 07, 2012
at 06:30 AM

This is normal. The ketostixx should NOT show ketones in your urine if you have been doing keto for so long. It means that your body is now adapted to ketones and it does not excrete them via urine. It's using them all to fuel your body. It's a GOOD thing!

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on January 12, 2011
at 12:31 PM

Well we're not "designed" for it but I'm convinced we evolved to run on ketone bodies very well. There is no doubt that fat is the most efficient fuel source for exertions of up to 75% or so, after that glucose takes over. I find ketones the perfect fuel source for all my needs including strenuous weight training. I think of ketones as diesel, powerful, clean burning and efficient and glucose as nitro-methane (racing fuel) a lot of energy for short periods. So I think I'll stay in ketosis until someone convinces me of something better.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on January 12, 2011
at 09:38 AM

Ketosis is a normal and sometimes desirable state for humans.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on January 11, 2011
at 11:09 AM

Yes, but you'd need to be in ketosis without any drinking fluids for many days before any damage like this would occur. Pregnancy is a separate complicated issue.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 11, 2011
at 05:23 AM

Well, I'm not convinced at this point in time that we're designed for it, so I'm going to play it safe until I encounter more compelling arguments for it. We'll see.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:08 AM

I don't think they are any more or less reliable than asking people what their threshold is. I think they work for some people and not others, but it's probably worth the $10 to try them.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:54 AM

Every time I have seen a reference to ketostix, I have seen a refutation of their legitimacy shortly thereafter. Are they now considered to be useful?

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:53 AM

Is there a specific reason you wish to avoid ketosis, if you don't mind posting about it? Many of us quite enjoy staying in ketosis. Not everyone wishes to, of course, but I am always interested to know what it is about ketosis that others wish to avoid.

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:08 AM

Yes. That includes all source - fiber and sugar. I assume this varies by individual. Have you tested your threshold using ketostix?

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 11, 2011
at 12:03 AM

Supernaut, thank you for the link to the study. It's very useful.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 11, 2011
at 12:00 AM

Do you count every gram, regardless of whether it's fiber or sugar?

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11 Answers

1
5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on January 11, 2011
at 03:25 AM

I wouldn't rely on ketostix too much if you have been low carb for any length of time. I've been VLC/ZC hi fat for several years and out of curiosity tried the kitostix with absolutely no result. No colour change what so ever. I asked Dr Kurt Harris (PaNu) about this and he said this is quite normal because the body becomes very efficient after a time and there is virtually no spillover of ketone bodies into the urine therefore nothing to detect. There is no ketone breath and no real way to tell, it also takes quite a lot of carbs to stop ketosis (why on earth you would want to tho I don't know) and it resumes very quickly when you reduce the carbs again.

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2

(11697)

on March 07, 2012
at 06:30 AM

This is normal. The ketostixx should NOT show ketones in your urine if you have been doing keto for so long. It means that your body is now adapted to ketones and it does not excrete them via urine. It's using them all to fuel your body. It's a GOOD thing!

1
7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

on January 11, 2011
at 01:46 AM

I think the easiest way to determine this would be to buy some ketostix and check yourself. I think it probably varies by more than your 10g buffer based each person and how they burn the carbs.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on January 11, 2011
at 02:08 AM

I don't think they are any more or less reliable than asking people what their threshold is. I think they work for some people and not others, but it's probably worth the $10 to try them.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:54 AM

Every time I have seen a reference to ketostix, I have seen a refutation of their legitimacy shortly thereafter. Are they now considered to be useful?

1
D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

on January 11, 2011
at 01:16 AM

Dr. Wolfgang Lutz, and Dr. Jan Kwasniewski, each, recommend diets which keep one just out of ketosis.


Dr. Lutz's recommendations in Life Without Bread, include an upper limit of 72 grams.

Short explanation of his diet here:

http://www.lowcarb.ca/atkins-diet-and-low-carb-plans/life-without-bread.html


Dr. Jan Kwansiewski's "Optimal Diet" calculates .5g per Kg of due body weight. Due body weight is calculated by one's height in centimeters minus 100, plus or minus 10%.

Example: 160 cm. - 100 = 60Kg of due body weight.

The website states that for this weight, the carb recommendation is 30 - 50 grams.

Here is a site in English on the diet and explanation of how to calculate amounts of protein, fat, and carbs.

http://homodiet.netfirms.com/diet/optimaldiet1.htm

Here is the Polish website, translated through google:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://dr-kwasniewski.pl/&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com


Peter Dobromylskyj discusses this and other fascinating dietary science at his blog, Hyperlipid.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

1
1ccc0b0b7a756cd42466cef8f450d0cb

(1801)

on January 11, 2011
at 12:01 AM

According to an article referenced by Dr. Eades, the key may also lie in reducing the amount of protein too.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 11, 2011
at 12:03 AM

Supernaut, thank you for the link to the study. It's very useful.

1
E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on January 10, 2011
at 11:48 PM

I have found that the threshold for me is about 100-120g, according to Ketostix. Surprisingly high!

E91fd339d760ed76cc72570a679ebf5a

(2369)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:08 AM

Yes. That includes all source - fiber and sugar. I assume this varies by individual. Have you tested your threshold using ketostix?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on January 11, 2011
at 12:00 AM

Do you count every gram, regardless of whether it's fiber or sugar?

0
0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on March 29, 2012
at 10:27 PM

At some point a fast of at least 12 hrs with zero carbs is needed to enter ketosis and turn your body into a fat burner and not a sugar burning. Going very low over a period of time may work but the 12-16 hr fast is the quickest and easiest. The thought of liver/ kidnery damage- the poster didn't even no which one he was talking about is out-dated bad science. A ketogenic diet is the state to be in.

0
7b11ed525ffa23bc7257684e27488a6a

(366)

on March 29, 2012
at 07:59 PM

For me, it's not just carbs but also the amount of exercise I get. All forms of exercise make the ketosis threshold higher, but resistance training impacts it the most. On average though, I would say 40 grams if I am not exercising much. More if I am.

0
Medium avatar

(2338)

on March 29, 2012
at 07:37 PM

i've heard your brain and other parts of normal functioning can use up to 130g of carbs a day so maybe a little under that... like you said im sure there's plenty of variability between everybody

0
73b72d74565dcf088158a97e39ae1d5e

on March 29, 2012
at 07:15 PM

I hang out at 36-50g/day (calculated, including all sources carbs) and don't go into ketosis. If I want to drop down into k-land, I have to get down to 15-20g. I'm fairly diminutive female post 50 - I think we're going to very a lot by age-gender-size etc -

0
Ac2f5891632edc5ab2839d477d07b896

on March 29, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Remember Ketostix only test for one type of ketone, Acetoacetic Acid. After a few weeks in ketosis your body will be producing predominantly beta hydroxybutyrate, which will not register on ketostix. You need to check blood levels if you want to be really sure. Rule of thumb for ketosis is ~50g, but this varies a bit based on size, exercise, protein consumption, etc.

-3
894926ab1e277be9348121a8d31d18e3

on January 11, 2011
at 04:49 AM

Iirc, remaining in ketosis for prolonged periods of time can cause liver damage (or maybe it's kidney damage). Ketosis can also be an indicator of problems during pregnancy.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on January 11, 2011
at 11:09 AM

Yes, but you'd need to be in ketosis without any drinking fluids for many days before any damage like this would occur. Pregnancy is a separate complicated issue.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on January 12, 2011
at 09:38 AM

Ketosis is a normal and sometimes desirable state for humans.

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