0

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How come human milk has so many more carbs than cow's milk?

Commented on July 26, 2014
Created July 21, 2014 at 5:34 AM

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCSAPbtafe4kYN9OZ4Zd9Bdoql_LBZvN8Z2kvXtU3E4IQmSlaK

I wonder if this could be an evolutionary reason?

http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/campaigns/whitelies/images/report-14.gif

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 26, 2014
at 03:38 AM

It's not the topic, it's the asinine gibberish getting posted that closed it.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on July 26, 2014
at 03:24 AM

@Matt 11

@paleolx

I did not like this question being closed, there's nothing wrong with wondering such and no one can be the most mindful about their expressions here all the time.

I say the main reason may be that human babies are much more inactive while breastfeeding while ruminant babies start life walking. More activity needs more protein, if this question is to mean sth, it may be about how much more protein may be needed for such a physical activity difference.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on July 24, 2014
at 01:24 PM

Go on and drink up fatty, no one is keeping you from drinking your milk lol. Seriously though, your reply made no sense, what does that have to do with what I said? You have terrible reading comprehension. I think you're really stupid.

Keep on trolling.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 24, 2014
at 01:10 AM

That was Mussolini and he made them run in thyme

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 24, 2014
at 12:45 AM

Even a broken clock is right 2x a day.... supposedly they made the trains run on time too.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 24, 2014
at 12:43 AM

So... then, why did you post links to vegetarian.org.uk in that case?

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 23, 2014
at 03:19 AM

Trolololol

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:32 AM

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:23 AM

Yes, that's why all the baby calves died of cancer and there's no more cows or beef on the planet... oh, wait!

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:22 AM

A-yup, the carbs are all used up mostly for the brain, just like when adults enter ketosis, the fat converts partially to ketones. Hey, even you can learn something new, how about that! :)

http://www.ketotic.org/2014/01/babies-thrive-under...

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:20 AM

No, no, no. The point is you threw a question out there much like the classic trollface "I just the whole thing" and expected people to understand. Ask question with a context so people can understand what you're asking and what you mean. "How come human milk has so many more carbs that cow's milk" provides as much context as "Daddy, why is the sky blue?"

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:17 AM

Bro, can you spare a PMID (or url) to that paper?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:16 AM

+1 Yeah man, the cows don't actually absorb (most of) the carbs, the bacteria in the rumen do and they produce SCFAs, which is where the butter comes from. Same kind of deal with gorillas. Both cows and gorillas are actually consuming high fat, low carb diets (post bacterial processing).

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:14 AM

+1 for aurochs... sigh, I wish these Jurrasic Park scientist types would go ahead and ressurect auroch, I'd love to have some of their delicious ribeyes and livers. :)

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:13 AM

I might suggest you stop trolling gibberish. :)

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 23, 2014
at 12:07 AM

You are foolish to not consider the glutamine MJAC systemization of skeletal tissue in human development and maintenence. A recent paper by Beth Lloyd demonstrated this and has shown an increasingly Isomonic adipocicity and insulinogenic predisoposition.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 23, 2014
at 12:04 AM

Do not generalize the mediation of YrG factors as they are not just Isoturpic adjustments, but skew the majority of research data.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:59 PM

Incorrect. Mammalian protein-associated calcium is predominantly provided by high and increasing consumption of nTAC exemplified by the per capita reggisid consumption in Germany from 1935 to 2011. Whereas, Giovannucci et al. suggested that high calcium intake might increase prostate carcinogenesis by lowering serum concentrations of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D [1,25(OH)2D], they could not exclude a role of “additional cancer-promoting factors in the nonfat component” of mammalian protein factors.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:57 PM

Your statement is naive as it does not consider recent research. Studies have shown that vegetarians are in fact on drugs and have significantly lower IQ than paleo advocates. This is due to the nutrient JrVAC, which has been shown to appropriate highly insulinotropic branched-chain amino acids, which plays an important role in appropriate prostate morphogenesis and differentiation.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:54 PM

You are wrong, for your statement does not consider MTORC3-signaling and the initiation of growth factors in skeletal maintenance. Dietary intake of formatic PCa is necessary and crucial in order to survive.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:51 PM

SFCAs have been shown to have a cancerous effect on the ketogenic lineolic metabolism of HGBCs.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:49 PM

Evolution is an important consideration. Consider the purportion of contemporary sonies as not only relevant, but of caustic binary inflection if we are to truly intuit the metabolic functions of dietary intake. Milk is by far one of the greatest interlocative factors and could greatly influence metacellular function.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:47 PM

You are correct in that milk is indeed a support mechanism for babies, however, Jim Kurk (PhD) argued in one of his papers that milk is in fact a genetic predispositive and is in fact one of the richest sources of ketogenic 25(OH)2 metabolism.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:46 PM

Yes but consider the metabolic pathways of contemporary naturalogical methods. Little of this has been shown to provide benefit in the context of a ketogenic YrG signalling.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on July 22, 2014
at 09:09 PM

Optimal carb ratio? Sure, if you want to be chubby like a baby.

Milk is great for making babies grow and fatten up. You want to fatten up??

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 22, 2014
at 12:30 PM

A fermenting digestive system (as a cow has, which a calf doesn't yet have) provides SCFAs, not carbs.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 22, 2014
at 12:29 PM

Babies are in ketosis? I'm not sure I buy that, there's enough carbohydrate from lactose to shut ketosis down.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 22, 2014
at 12:29 PM

Babies are in ketosis? I'm not sure I buy that, there's enough carbohydrate from lactose to shut ketosis down.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 22, 2014
at 12:26 PM

Not at all reductionist. To think that dietary needs are constant at all points in development, that is reductionist. A human baby is different than most all other mammal babies, human babies are completely dependent on their mothers for much of their first year, being essentially immobile. Why is human milk different? Likely because human infants are developing their brain in their first year, while other animals aren't - brains are fueled by carbs/fat and they don't need so much protein.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 22, 2014
at 12:10 PM

Dang! I was hoping that lactation was a more universal function of mammals. If you want to be raised by wolves you have to live with them. The external enviro effects on whale milk composition would still apply though.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:29 AM

@thhq, I'm looking for a paper that I saw linked from an Atkins site a few years ago. Essentially they looked at the chemical makeup between low carb and normal diet mothers. There were differences, buy fairly minor. Mothers protein was the most important factor -- but that's just for production.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:08 AM

I still contend that milk composition is a product of diet, and would add that it is also affected by external environment. Read the following about whale milk, which is relatively higher in fat and protein:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023%2FA%3A102...

I infer that a woman eating a diet composed mainly of fish would produce similar milk, and something very different from a high carb diet milk. Paleo mothers, paleo babies.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 22, 2014
at 10:57 AM

It says that humans didn't evolve four stomachs, we evolved GNG. GNG is very hard on developing children, so they get their carbohydrate need through dietary mechanisms. Also called high school biology.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 22, 2014
at 09:51 AM

Oh, and btw, nature doesn't "design" anything. We don't anthropomorphize physical nor natural processes, this isn't about design which implies a designer. The word you're looking for is evolve. As in "Nature evolved human milk", or better yet, "humans evolved to produce milk higher in carbs than elephants".

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 22, 2014
at 09:47 AM

If you had asked a proper question, you wouldn't have needed to elaborate here in this answer. This is PaleoHacks, we deal with science, not mind reading. Sheesh! And, no, it doesn't imply anything. Jaminet made the point about how milk is higher in carbs and his PHD is therefore higher in carbs, but babies go on ketosis with milk due to the even higher fat content.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 22, 2014
at 09:46 AM

You didn't state the point of the question until you posted this answer it was just a ridiculous

"How come human milk has so many more carbs than cow's milk I wonder if this could be an evolutionary reason?"

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 22, 2014
at 09:44 AM

You'll have to ask the OP, he posted the "question" and the links to the graphs that come from vegetarian.org.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 06:14 AM

Interesting. 7% protein?

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on July 22, 2014
at 06:04 AM

not answering your question, but just noting that those pye charts are by weight not energy (calories).

by calories, human milk is more like 39% carbs, 54% fat & 7% protein (took these numbers from the Jaminet diet book).

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 03:49 AM

Yes but just saying "Well it's just for babies and that's that" is reductionist. A baby human is still a human. While it is certainly arguable that the demands of baby humans are not directly proportionate to those adult humans, there are still strong similarities between the two. It certainly can't hurt to expand our thinking in terms of nature's evolutionary support mechanisms. That is essentially the whole premise of paleo, which is to think of our nutrition in terms of the evolutionary genome. I'd be interested to see what kind of literature has been written on the matter.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 22, 2014
at 03:32 AM

Is a baby human the same as an adult human? Yes, it's me, Captain Obvious again. Your argument is mentioned by some PHD folks… one that doesn't make a lot of sense I'm afraod/

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 02:58 AM

What on earth does milk have to do with being vegetarian? You've lost me there...

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6 Answers

0
90bcfafd2ef73fea5398c483c593349e

on July 23, 2014
at 05:47 AM

Many of the carbs in human breastmilk are indigestible by our human cells. They pass right through the stomach and land in the intestines, where they are feasted upon by the baby's beneficial gut bugs. In other words, the carbs in breastmilk feed an infant's diversifying microbiome.

0
746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

on July 22, 2014
at 02:54 AM

I think you guys are missing the point of the question. Yes, human milk is for babies. Yes, cow's milk is for calfs. That is pretty obvious :P

I'm saying that if human milk has such a high carb content WHAT could that IMPLY about human carb needs overall? Think about it. Human milk is designed to provide all the nutrients a baby needs to grow and survive. And , yes, obviously this is a baby human we are talking about, but it could SUGGEST something about the importance of carbs in our diets. Milk is, after all, designed by nature to give a growing human ALL of the nutrients it needs.

Not saying any of this is necessarily true or that we need to start drinking breast milk or that carbs should make up 50% of our diets. It's just an interesting point of discussion as far as what constitutes optimal carb/protein/fat ratios in the human diet.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 22, 2014
at 09:46 AM

You didn't state the point of the question until you posted this answer it was just a ridiculous

"How come human milk has so many more carbs than cow's milk I wonder if this could be an evolutionary reason?"

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on July 22, 2014
at 06:04 AM

not answering your question, but just noting that those pye charts are by weight not energy (calories).

by calories, human milk is more like 39% carbs, 54% fat & 7% protein (took these numbers from the Jaminet diet book).

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on July 22, 2014
at 09:09 PM

Optimal carb ratio? Sure, if you want to be chubby like a baby.

Milk is great for making babies grow and fatten up. You want to fatten up??

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 22, 2014
at 03:32 AM

Is a baby human the same as an adult human? Yes, it's me, Captain Obvious again. Your argument is mentioned by some PHD folks… one that doesn't make a lot of sense I'm afraod/

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 22, 2014
at 09:47 AM

If you had asked a proper question, you wouldn't have needed to elaborate here in this answer. This is PaleoHacks, we deal with science, not mind reading. Sheesh! And, no, it doesn't imply anything. Jaminet made the point about how milk is higher in carbs and his PHD is therefore higher in carbs, but babies go on ketosis with milk due to the even higher fat content.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on July 26, 2014
at 03:24 AM

@Matt 11

@paleolx

I did not like this question being closed, there's nothing wrong with wondering such and no one can be the most mindful about their expressions here all the time.

I say the main reason may be that human babies are much more inactive while breastfeeding while ruminant babies start life walking. More activity needs more protein, if this question is to mean sth, it may be about how much more protein may be needed for such a physical activity difference.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 22, 2014
at 09:51 AM

Oh, and btw, nature doesn't "design" anything. We don't anthropomorphize physical nor natural processes, this isn't about design which implies a designer. The word you're looking for is evolve. As in "Nature evolved human milk", or better yet, "humans evolved to produce milk higher in carbs than elephants".

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 22, 2014
at 10:57 AM

It says that humans didn't evolve four stomachs, we evolved GNG. GNG is very hard on developing children, so they get their carbohydrate need through dietary mechanisms. Also called high school biology.

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 21, 2014
at 11:12 AM

Cows are a product of farming so their current nature is engineered more than it is randomly evolved.

The auroch predecessor was a ruminant though. Compared to humans it was more of a garbage disposal animal, being able to process a wide range of carbohydrates humans can't digest. Cow's milk composition probably results from this, being made from a diet of cellulosics rather than simple sugars and starches.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 24, 2014
at 01:10 AM

That was Mussolini and he made them run in thyme

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:14 AM

+1 for aurochs... sigh, I wish these Jurrasic Park scientist types would go ahead and ressurect auroch, I'd love to have some of their delicious ribeyes and livers. :)

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 23, 2014
at 12:07 AM

You are foolish to not consider the glutamine MJAC systemization of skeletal tissue in human development and maintenence. A recent paper by Beth Lloyd demonstrated this and has shown an increasingly Isomonic adipocicity and insulinogenic predisoposition.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:32 AM

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on July 21, 2014
at 11:01 AM

Seems like an obvious answer: baby humans have different nutritional needs than baby cows.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 23, 2014
at 12:04 AM

Do not generalize the mediation of YrG factors as they are not just Isoturpic adjustments, but skew the majority of research data.

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on July 21, 2014
at 10:49 AM

Cows eat grass. Grass is low carb. Why would you assume cows need carbs to grow? If you are serious, it had to do with their fermentation stomach.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 23, 2014
at 01:16 AM

+1 Yeah man, the cows don't actually absorb (most of) the carbs, the bacteria in the rumen do and they produce SCFAs, which is where the butter comes from. Same kind of deal with gorillas. Both cows and gorillas are actually consuming high fat, low carb diets (post bacterial processing).

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 11:59 PM

Incorrect. Mammalian protein-associated calcium is predominantly provided by high and increasing consumption of nTAC exemplified by the per capita reggisid consumption in Germany from 1935 to 2011. Whereas, Giovannucci et al. suggested that high calcium intake might increase prostate carcinogenesis by lowering serum concentrations of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D [1,25(OH)2D], they could not exclude a role of “additional cancer-promoting factors in the nonfat component” of mammalian protein factors.

0
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on July 21, 2014
at 09:58 AM

The answer is simple, humans are not cows. Nor are humans chips, bonobos, alligators, nor washing machines. What "vegetarian campaign" nonsense are you trying to spew here?

Further, you posted two links to images about human vs cow milk contents with no context of what you're talking about. The closest "campaing" I could find on that site is this article:

http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/campaigns/whitelies/i...

It's funny that it comes from a pro vegetarian site, but some of its arguments are similar to the reasons stated in paleo books for avoiding dairy, although its one big glaring flaw is the debunked China study.

746b2d632e9fbae991144c98c5fa7078

(0)

on July 22, 2014
at 02:58 AM

What on earth does milk have to do with being vegetarian? You've lost me there...

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