2

votes

Has anyone experienced a "second induction"?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 11, 2010 at 5:11 AM

Let's say you significantly dropped carbohydrate, or got over your addiction to sugar -- and by this I don't necessarily mean an Atkins induction, but just your transition to paleo. It was difficult at first, but then you "broke through" to the other side: the grumpiness went away, the lethargy went away, and you started feeling great.

But did you then take it a step further and try out ZC or VLC, or a meat-only diet? Did you once again feel sluggish and grumpy ... and then you broke through again? Such that you felt hunky-dory even at this new level? Did you attain a new level of "flexibility" with your metabolism?

Or perhaps your transition to paleo and a reduced sugar/carbohydrate intake was painless. Did you stay at this level for a while, and then, upon experimenting with ZC/VLC, experience the lethargy, followed by a breakthrough?

What I'm looking for is people who have tried out two "levels" of paleo, and what their experiences were like. I'm wondering if those of us who have a really easy time transitioning to an LC paleo might eventually run into trouble if we try to go ZC/VLC. And maybe those of us who struggle with just getting to LC might have an easy time going ZC/VLC. Is it like the chicken pox, do you just have to struggle once? Or can there be a struggle at each level?

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on December 05, 2011
at 04:21 AM

I'm having to drop pork rinds as well, alas.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 05:05 AM

That's impressive that you can manage your carbohydrate intake so precisely, and that it made such a difference for you. My basic debate these days is between keeping a fair amount of glucose for weight training purposes and experimenting with VLC to see what kind of fasting I am capable of. Glad to hear you've successfully fine-tuned for your health.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:44 AM

Goose, that's super. I'm glad you are doing so well.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on November 11, 2010
at 09:59 PM

Thanks, Ambimorph.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on November 11, 2010
at 06:12 PM

I've done the SAD to LC multiple times. It usually takes me about 4 days for the cravings to go away, and to feel right.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on November 11, 2010
at 05:16 PM

Did you have any trouble with the first transition?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on November 11, 2010
at 05:39 AM

On the term confusion: that's why I put it in quotes, but I see what you mean. I'll edit it.

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7 Answers

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1
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on November 11, 2010
at 02:17 PM

I have done this, almost. I was on a low carb diet for a very long time, many years. It was not 100% paleo all the time, though close, and it did include dairy. Then I went to a zero carb diet, eating only meat. I think it was pretty painless, and I soon started feeling better than ever before. I actually find it easier to maintain a zero carb diet. On a LC diet I still experienced cravings frequently.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on November 11, 2010
at 05:16 PM

Did you have any trouble with the first transition?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on November 11, 2010
at 09:59 PM

Thanks, Ambimorph.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on November 11, 2010
at 06:12 PM

I've done the SAD to LC multiple times. It usually takes me about 4 days for the cravings to go away, and to feel right.

2
7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on December 04, 2011
at 11:45 PM

When I first went primal (5 months ago) I didn't have any problem dropping down to about 70g of carbs per day. I felt great, and didn't experience any drop in energy. Within the first couple months I ate below 50g per day for two days in a row and just felt terrible (shakey, emotional, on the verge of tears) so I went back up. In the past 2 weeks I've started going down to about 30-40g of carbs per day and I don't have a problem with it. So my two levels of carb intake have been about 70g and 40g, and I feel like I had to stay at that higher level for a while before breaking down to a lower level. It may be that some people need to ramp down their carbs slowly, or ratchet down bit by bit, giving their body time to adjust at each level.

1
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 13, 2011
at 02:06 AM

I think it is different for each person, but after having quite a remarkable 3-week response to involuntarily reducing my need for carbs, I then read about it and determined that it was probably induction that I had experienced. I thought that was that, and only recently realized that after a few months of low carb, I was actually still burning sugar, either from the slightly increased amount of carbs or the extra protein. I had noticed this many times before (usually when trying something a bit more strict, like Rosedale) and had attributed it to "too little protein". No wonder there was a plateau. I only discovered it was re-induction when I started to do the leptin reset and ate lots of protein but was very strict about the snacks. Now I know the induction pattern, and I do find myself repeating the process again and again if I am off low carb for several days. Now, it only takes a day for me to get back, but it makes for a tough evening. Jittery, anxious, wanting to eat something, not knowing what it is. Going to the fridge and looking at stuff, "maybe if I eat this", "maybe that". Thinking like this is going to kill me. I can't sleep, that is, I am sure I won't be able to sleep. Everything is negative. Of course, if I did either eat something or not eat something, I wake up feeling fine and wondering what all the fuss is about. If I didn't eat anything, I am fine all day as long as I stay on plan. If I ate the wrong things the night before, then I have to roll the rock all the way up the hill the next day.

1
D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

on January 11, 2011
at 01:44 AM

I tried eating fewer than 10 grams of CHO per day and always felt off and a bit "puny". It was though my body was working very hard to do something inside. I increased to 12 or 14, and felt much better. Some days I feel quite well at 12 or 14g of CHO. Other days I need 16 or 18.

Dr. Richard Bernstein, who wrote The Diabetes Solution, recommends that if you need to raise your blood sugar, to do it in 2gm increments. I find that brilliant.


I follow Dr. Kurt Harris' dietary guidelines.

http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/


Here is a link to read parts of Dr. Bernstein's book online. He explains a great deal about how to eat to have stable blood sugar. He recommends 30g CHO per day. Breakfast: 6, Lunch and dinner each 6, as well as keeping the protein amounts constant from breakfast to breakfast each day, lunch to lunch, etc.

http://www.diabetes-book.com/readit.shtml

I think Dr. Bernstein is amazing. His book made a strong impression on me. It gave me the courage to go from low carb to very low carb. I feel very much better for having done so.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on January 11, 2011
at 05:05 AM

That's impressive that you can manage your carbohydrate intake so precisely, and that it made such a difference for you. My basic debate these days is between keeping a fair amount of glucose for weight training purposes and experimenting with VLC to see what kind of fasting I am capable of. Glad to hear you've successfully fine-tuned for your health.

1
8274ce9d4bffd8209055e1e34def04d6

(429)

on January 08, 2011
at 09:04 PM

Actually, I recently dropped fruit, nuts, chocolate, and pork rinds...

Now the sweetest food I consume regularly is half-and-half.

I feel a little more clear-headed, and my cravings for sugar have subsided, perhaps even disappeared.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on January 11, 2011
at 01:44 AM

Goose, that's super. I'm glad you are doing so well.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on December 05, 2011
at 04:21 AM

I'm having to drop pork rinds as well, alas.

1
7757eefbf5a2a4bc12e90015fc925db9

(125)

on November 15, 2010
at 02:37 AM

It took several weeks, maybe even a couple of months before I had my first withdrawal symptoms after dropping grains and legumes. I think I am having a second "induction" now after about 4 weeks of giving up dairy. The first time I had the lethargy and actually had some dizzy spells. This time it is more like a bad cold...then again, maybe I just have a bad cold. :-)

1
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on November 11, 2010
at 05:28 AM

Your terms are a bit confusing. The Atkins 'induction' phase is very low carb from the start. THere is no 'induction' that is not very low carb as far as I know. I did that some years ago, coming directly from SAD eating to induction. I had a few days of massively intense carb cravings and was a bit out of sorts otherwise. But at the 6th day, I suddenly felt great. After a long time, I did slowly fall off the wagon and ended up repeating an induction like eating pattern again years later. The second time, it was much much easier, perhaps because in the time between, I had never gone totally back to the same level of massive carb consumption, so my metabolism was probably much less sugar dependent the second time around.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on November 11, 2010
at 05:39 AM

On the term confusion: that's why I put it in quotes, but I see what you mean. I'll edit it.

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