0

votes

Hack my adverse response to insulin

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created June 14, 2012 at 9:51 AM

Im VLC/ZC Keto adapted. If I touch carbs, PWO refeed or otherwise, even 50g, I get these symptoms:

-Flush in the face -Foggy and sleepy -Irritable -HUNGRY

Thing is, other things besides carbs that supposedly raise insulin give me the same symptoms:

-BCAA during fasted training -Homemade meat-protein shake that has no fat (I lightly boil chicken breast, and puree it in my commercial blender), even if I take it with coconut oil -too much protein at once sitting if in liquid form -whey protein shake

I make a raw fatty beef or lamb pureed shake too, but I think raw digests more slowly than cooked, and the large amount of fat within the meat must blunt insulin. Even so, when I was taking 3 meals per day with 60g of protein in each such shake, the protein load must have created gluconogenesis and I had SOME LEVEL of the above symptoms too. Ive cut back to 30-35g of protein at a sitting, and I feel LESS hungry.

But, cooked protein, no matter how much I eat, as long as its fatty, never bothers me.

What does all this mean? Am I intolerant to carbs, or am I intolerant to high insulin?

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 15, 2012
at 10:50 PM

I was off and on for a few years, VLC but not paleo/primal until a couple of years ago but even then not strict until more recently.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 15, 2012
at 09:18 PM

Been doing natto (just the juice/goo in water with the actual soy bits strained out), Dr. Ohhiras, and another probiotic, with occasional water keffir grains. That's helped alot.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 15, 2012
at 09:16 PM

Agree and sympathize with every comment. I dont believe one macro. Nutrient is bad or good, just peoples ability to tolerate them in a particular state of health is bad or good; and mine was bad. My gut IS healing. I've been VLC for 5months now. At one point even found veggies aggravated me, and was all meat 5days a week. I've loaded chelated minerals like cal/mag/zinc/copper/iron/manganese/selenium/chromium, and vit D/E/C/D/K, which has helped. How long were you VLC before you added back starch safely? Really, I'd love to try leangains as prescribed;BCAA, starch and lean on WO days.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 15, 2012
at 12:38 AM

I'm sympathetic as I've experienced that too; hunger never satisfied, IBS-like symptoms, etc. I honestly can't say what has been the major difference but I think that healing of my gut has contributed in a big way and for that I did need to go VLC for a period. For me I'm thinking it wasn't that various foods/macros are inherently bad just that they were for me in the state I was in. Broth and probiotics were probably a big piece of the puzzle for me as well as possible long-term nutrient deficiencies caused by my former love of whole grains.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 14, 2012
at 11:38 PM

I get those severe averse reactions because I'm VLC adapted, and if I introduce carbs back slowly and build back up to tolerance, then I'm back in the same irritable hungry all the time state I was before VLC changed all that! What to do! Carbs so aggravate my IBS or whatever it is....VLC has helped immensely.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 14, 2012
at 11:36 PM

I've felt those things too, exactly. Bit, the symptoms that were really hurting me and making me suffer went bye bye when I cut out carbs. I used to be starving hungry every 3 hrs, have terrible waking in the middle of the night, be edgy, reactive, irritable, and moody, with high highs and deep lows. Now I can train all day fasted and never get hungry (unfathomable!), sleep much better, and my moods are very evened out. It's been a positive life changing thing for me. I'd LOVE the flexibility of being able me to carb load PWO, or on a long montain hike for more speed, but everytime I try

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 14, 2012
at 11:30 PM

Yeah I understand that about carbs effect when VLC adapted. The thing is, the pure unsweetened BCAA powder in water while training 14hrs fasted made me feel those same crappy symptoms for hours afterwards.....just as carbs have when I've tried them lately.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on June 14, 2012
at 01:00 PM

Being ZC/VLC adapted, you probably have some peripheral insulin resistance as a result. A hit of carbs is likely to make you feel wonky. If you want to add carbs to your diet, you should probably ramp up slowly to adapt.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on June 14, 2012
at 12:56 PM

Whey protein is very quickly digested/absorbed and is known to be insulinogenic. The fat in the meat will also slow digestion. This means less of an insulin spike or "peak" for the fatty meat, although area under the curve should be similar (total insulin released). I can't really say whether all your symptoms are a response to insulin, but being irritable and hungry can be caused by blood sugar dropping due to insulin.

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1 Answers

2
34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 14, 2012
at 10:45 AM

My experience with VLC/ZC led to adverse reactions to everything you mentioned and it got to the point that anything sweet triggered the same reaction, even artifical sweeteners that weren't supposed to. I'd also feel dizzy and nauseous and just unwell in general. I thought that this all meant that insulin spikes were evil and anything that triggered them were the bane of my existence. But avoiding those triggers didn't solve all of my problems. I eventually found that IF was the best of both worlds for me. I can still dip into a ketogenic state or come out of one without the negative effects and that allows a little more flexibility for me.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 15, 2012
at 10:50 PM

I was off and on for a few years, VLC but not paleo/primal until a couple of years ago but even then not strict until more recently.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 15, 2012
at 09:16 PM

Agree and sympathize with every comment. I dont believe one macro. Nutrient is bad or good, just peoples ability to tolerate them in a particular state of health is bad or good; and mine was bad. My gut IS healing. I've been VLC for 5months now. At one point even found veggies aggravated me, and was all meat 5days a week. I've loaded chelated minerals like cal/mag/zinc/copper/iron/manganese/selenium/chromium, and vit D/E/C/D/K, which has helped. How long were you VLC before you added back starch safely? Really, I'd love to try leangains as prescribed;BCAA, starch and lean on WO days.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 14, 2012
at 11:36 PM

I've felt those things too, exactly. Bit, the symptoms that were really hurting me and making me suffer went bye bye when I cut out carbs. I used to be starving hungry every 3 hrs, have terrible waking in the middle of the night, be edgy, reactive, irritable, and moody, with high highs and deep lows. Now I can train all day fasted and never get hungry (unfathomable!), sleep much better, and my moods are very evened out. It's been a positive life changing thing for me. I'd LOVE the flexibility of being able me to carb load PWO, or on a long montain hike for more speed, but everytime I try

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 15, 2012
at 09:18 PM

Been doing natto (just the juice/goo in water with the actual soy bits strained out), Dr. Ohhiras, and another probiotic, with occasional water keffir grains. That's helped alot.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on June 14, 2012
at 11:38 PM

I get those severe averse reactions because I'm VLC adapted, and if I introduce carbs back slowly and build back up to tolerance, then I'm back in the same irritable hungry all the time state I was before VLC changed all that! What to do! Carbs so aggravate my IBS or whatever it is....VLC has helped immensely.

34b560c8b9ce660d7839fb7e29d7be89

on June 15, 2012
at 12:38 AM

I'm sympathetic as I've experienced that too; hunger never satisfied, IBS-like symptoms, etc. I honestly can't say what has been the major difference but I think that healing of my gut has contributed in a big way and for that I did need to go VLC for a period. For me I'm thinking it wasn't that various foods/macros are inherently bad just that they were for me in the state I was in. Broth and probiotics were probably a big piece of the puzzle for me as well as possible long-term nutrient deficiencies caused by my former love of whole grains.

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