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Going to ask this one last time - looking for a simple answer

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 10, 2013 at 7:11 PM

I have been doing paleo for quite some time and noticed when i go VLC i can cut weight rather easily via diet in correlation with working out. With that being said i have read many times that you NEED carbs to put on muscle. So in short summer is coming and I need to know how many carbs i need to for muscle growth coupled with the massive amounts of protein i ingest on paleo? And prefferably whomever responds I am asking for grams per day and when (before or after morning workout)?

219ce991d8c94447870c824680de53e0

(457)

on January 14, 2013
at 07:57 PM

Stephen I am 6'2' male, at present trying to cut weight. About 20% body fat and would like to get down to the low teens. Based on the definitions i would be considered a mesomorph. I workout 6 days a week. Currently light weights with high reps, and cardio consisting of 15% incline on treadmill at 3.8-4.0 mph. Have bad knees from years of sports so they cant take the pounding of jogging. I am trying to strip the fat with the plan of starting to lift for gains starting in June. thoughts?

Fab409ac4a30957e3ed508514f7bff02

(295)

on January 11, 2013
at 01:01 AM

I believe Mat has since said (on the paleo solution podcast) not to do what he was doing in that post. IIRC he wound up in rough shape soon after that was posted - almost past out after a workout due to low blood sugar.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 10, 2013
at 09:08 PM

Are you male or female? What is your height and weight? What is your percent body fat? Are you trying to just put on muscle or also lose existing fat? How do you handle carbs? Would you classify yourself as ecto, meso or endo? How physically active are you? What is your workout routine? If you don't answer these then you should go with CD's answer or try bodybuilder.com's nutrition forum.

2fd93e91bb14e641a2bac9c6033e84e2

(1614)

on January 10, 2013
at 09:01 PM

This is an N=1 experiment. Up your carbs to 50 grams a day for 6 weeks. If you're losing mass/not gaining mass, try upping it to 75 grams a day. If you're putting on flab and not muscle mass, try lowering it again. You might need more protein. You'll probably need less/no cardio if you're looking purely for muscle growth. You're going to have to tweak it and figure out what works for you. Also, how can you expect anyone to give you a number is terms of grams when you don't provide even the most basic info- what you're eating now, the macro breakdown, your goals, your current size, etc.?

219ce991d8c94447870c824680de53e0

(457)

on January 10, 2013
at 08:01 PM

This answers my questions most directly so first, thank you, second if i am trying to lean down (i.e. keep existing muscle mass but lose fat) is vlc diet coupled with morning workouts adviseable or should i go with more carbs to preserve existing muscle mass? I am currently around 30 g a day so what is necessary to keep a proper level of liver glycogen to support my bodies needs and not have it go to my muscles for shortages? 30 minutes of weights and 30 of cardio (mid to high intensity)? Again thanks!!!!

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 10, 2013
at 07:39 PM

+1.... And for some additional advice just try eating more after your workout and less on days you don't work out. In grams that would be MOAR grams on days you work out and LESS grams on days you don't. I'm nothing if not precise ;)

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 10, 2013
at 07:21 PM

42, source: The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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4 Answers

10
61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on January 10, 2013
at 07:25 PM

Do you promise this is the last time? THERE IS NO MAGIC NUMBER.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 10, 2013
at 07:39 PM

+1.... And for some additional advice just try eating more after your workout and less on days you don't work out. In grams that would be MOAR grams on days you work out and LESS grams on days you don't. I'm nothing if not precise ;)

2
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on January 10, 2013
at 07:28 PM

You are cutting weight quickly because of weight lost in conjunction with lower to depleted levels of liver glycogen (which is bound up with water - hence where "water weight" term comes from).

If you drop into this VLC zone on occasion, you are likely to notice a quick drop at first every time.

The problem with low liver glycogen is that when your body (under the influence of exercise and exertion) needs more glycogen it's going to get it from your muscles (the second largest store of glycogen in the body).

So, this less of "eating carbs important for muscles growth" and more of a "eating carbs important for non-loss of muscle mass". If you want to "slim down" you don't need to worry about this as much as if you want to "gain strength" or "build lean mass."

tl;dr There is no magic number - keep that glycogen tanked up or you will lose muscle mass.

2fd93e91bb14e641a2bac9c6033e84e2

(1614)

on January 10, 2013
at 09:01 PM

This is an N=1 experiment. Up your carbs to 50 grams a day for 6 weeks. If you're losing mass/not gaining mass, try upping it to 75 grams a day. If you're putting on flab and not muscle mass, try lowering it again. You might need more protein. You'll probably need less/no cardio if you're looking purely for muscle growth. You're going to have to tweak it and figure out what works for you. Also, how can you expect anyone to give you a number is terms of grams when you don't provide even the most basic info- what you're eating now, the macro breakdown, your goals, your current size, etc.?

219ce991d8c94447870c824680de53e0

(457)

on January 10, 2013
at 08:01 PM

This answers my questions most directly so first, thank you, second if i am trying to lean down (i.e. keep existing muscle mass but lose fat) is vlc diet coupled with morning workouts adviseable or should i go with more carbs to preserve existing muscle mass? I am currently around 30 g a day so what is necessary to keep a proper level of liver glycogen to support my bodies needs and not have it go to my muscles for shortages? 30 minutes of weights and 30 of cardio (mid to high intensity)? Again thanks!!!!

2
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on January 10, 2013
at 07:28 PM

Agree with math girl. Try 50, not enough try 100. Etc

1
C9b299fec7119b3f74aed1640677d9f6

on January 10, 2013
at 07:54 PM

You don't necessarily need carbs, they are not essential to ingest. Some people say you can gain muscle on vlc or a ketogenic diet. Here are some links

http://robbwolf.com/2012/11/27/kiefer-carb-backloading-episode-160/

http://robbwolf.com/2009/10/08/crossfit-on-a-low-carb-paleo-diet-mat-lalonde-reporting/

Fab409ac4a30957e3ed508514f7bff02

(295)

on January 11, 2013
at 01:01 AM

I believe Mat has since said (on the paleo solution podcast) not to do what he was doing in that post. IIRC he wound up in rough shape soon after that was posted - almost past out after a workout due to low blood sugar.

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