19

votes

Getting leaner with starch

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 06, 2011 at 12:31 AM

This question was prompted by reading Travis Culp's recent comment about fasting, where he says

I'm already pretty lean, but I actually am getting leaner after cutting fructose down to almost nothing and increasing starch

I've also read similar comments, I think, from Stephen-Aegis.

I would like to hear experiences of those who increased their starch intake and got leaner, or for that matter, didn't get leaner.

Did you time the starch intake specifically pre or post workout or is it just an everyday addition? Is it only from tubers? How much do you typically eat? Did you see a change right away or did it take a long time to become evident?

I'm coming from a zero carb position, so an increase in starch would be an increase in carbs, not merely a change in type. So I'm especially interested in anecdotes in which the increase in starch was also an increase in carbs.

Thank you!

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on December 24, 2012
at 07:46 AM

But do you eat vegetables/fibers too Stephen? Or are you simply starch + animal based foods?

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:58 PM

depends on your metabolism and how much of either you eat. Generally its good to eat fruit with protein though. I have no problem mixing lots of fat with fruit but others could have problems because the fat can interfere with sugar metabolism.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on January 08, 2012
at 05:01 AM

Could you post a link?

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on January 08, 2012
at 04:57 AM

Any citrus or berries? Any source of Omega 3 besides lamb?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on January 07, 2012
at 09:24 PM

What if you eat your fruit with fat?

8ea84667a7f11ac3967f2ecfcad28ad8

(641)

on January 07, 2012
at 07:39 PM

+1 Great answer

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on January 07, 2012
at 06:53 PM

So glad you posted this. Starting a low reward experiment on myself in a few days. I see some of the things you ate. Did you eat any fat? What else did you eat?

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:19 AM

Fruit tends to be more satiating than tubers. For instance, my blueberries say 90kcal/140g. Tubers are more like 140kcal/140g. The only real negative of fruit (for weight loss) is the sweetness is certainly appealing.

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:11 PM

Is this on the basis of caloric load, or is there another factor that you're suggesting is at work?

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:40 PM

LIKE with the seasons...

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:36 PM

i agree absolutely, starches can be made to be highly rewarding if you fancy it up with additives and ingredients aka a western diet. but plain ol' tubers are a pretty healthy food

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on January 06, 2012
at 08:47 AM

Ha! I've had the same revelation. I railed against the badness of "meat and potatoes lifestyle" for a significant portion of my life, and here I am. @rob, I actually switched to lamb steaks because they were cheaper ($5-7/lb. at my otherwise expensive co-op, about $2-3 per meal isn't bad in my book), and discovered that I actually preferred them taste and energy-wise over beef steak, I think that little jewel of leg marrow is what sealed the deal for me.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on January 01, 2012
at 01:18 PM

without fat......

9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

(15833)

on December 31, 2011
at 06:57 PM

I still have trouble eating more than about 50g of carbs per day, the equivalent of two sweet potatoes or bananas.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 31, 2011
at 05:07 PM

Yeah, I'm a picky person to be honest. I think I possibly would have gained weight if I had allowed myself butter.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 04:01 PM

Well, perhaps she couldn't bring herself to eat enough of it?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 04:00 PM

By plain, I assume you mean without fat, not without, say, salt or spices?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:59 PM

That's interesting. So you eat a low carb diet otherwise? One sweet potato is probably about 30g. I would call this a variation of a TKD.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:52 PM

So how much starch do you eat now?

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:21 AM

As Melissa pointed out in her post, the diet was low-reward for her. Another factor.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 31, 2011
at 05:47 AM

I don't like most starches unless they are cooked in butter.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 04:02 AM

That's funny. It sounds mind-bogglingly delicious to me!

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:56 AM

I think you must be lying as nobody could hate okinawan sweet potatoes. They are candy.

4d6aa1a676240b15dc569ff8ade0500f

(2546)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:44 AM

i'd love to hear more about people's experiences with this! i just started experimenting with the perfect health diet, and i'm LOVING it so far. i also have the feeling i'm eating less and am generally less hungry. i'm not thinking about food as much either! i guess i'll find out in the coming week's if i'll lean out, but mentally it's a good way to go!

4d6aa1a676240b15dc569ff8ade0500f

(2546)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:41 AM

def more nut -- it's almost entirely fat!

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 23, 2011
at 04:00 PM

Thank you for the update!

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 23, 2011
at 03:59 PM

Thank you for the updated details!

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on March 23, 2011
at 03:30 PM

did this get combined?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on March 23, 2011
at 03:29 PM

I didnt get leaner, I didnt introduce starch till I already had visible abs, but I got Stronger, fast.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on March 23, 2011
at 04:59 AM

Travis, could you possibly elaborate as to what you mean by "proper precautions". Do you peel them? ...Fry them or bake them?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 22, 2011
at 10:37 PM

Oh, tell me more! How much potato and rice do you eat, and do you time it around training? Honestly, I'm quite afraid of it (because going ZC cured a serious mood disorder, and I never want to go back there), so I would have to proceed cautiously if I tried it.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 22, 2011
at 09:41 PM

I would think it is more like a nut than a fruit, and, for me, it causes cravings and may stall weight loss. But for you it may be fine, you'd have to experiment. I have no problem with the oil, though.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 15, 2011
at 02:33 AM

Travis became famous today as PaNu is about him as of today.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on February 08, 2011
at 04:11 PM

Potatoes are mediocre without copious amounts of Kerrygold.

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on February 08, 2011
at 02:47 AM

Sorry for the incessant questions, but forgot to include the question of whether or not you combined starches with fats. Leangains style says to go low-fat when you up the carbs, but potatoes just aren't that great when not slathered in butter!

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on February 07, 2011
at 12:23 PM

Me : mostly pwo, the occasional offday. My buddy, daily while losing weight. I lost my weight as LC

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on February 07, 2011
at 05:57 AM

Curious to hear response to ambimorph's questions, also, did you eat starches while you were losing the fat as well?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on February 06, 2011
at 08:52 PM

If you're going to eat fruit, pursue the low-fructose varieties, especially if you are trying to lose bodyfat. These would usually be strawberries and raspberries. There may be some others, but those are the go-to low-fructose ones that I would eat were I inclined to eat fruit.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on February 06, 2011
at 08:50 PM

You'll find that the fattiest cuts of even grass-fed meat are also the cheapest. There are bones, connective tissue and big gobs of fat all interspersed in the meat and I guess the average person is horrified. It's all grass-fed and 5.99 a pound. I dunno if that's cheap or not, but even buying all grass-fed and organic, the cost of that meat, russet potatoes, butter and spinach isn't that much. I drink only filtered water and don't snack on crap. The idea that healthy food is expensive is a myth.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on February 06, 2011
at 05:51 PM

So do you eat potatoes every day, or just pwo?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on February 06, 2011
at 05:47 PM

I noticed that yesterday, too. It's a very interesting development. Unfortunately, he no longer allows comments, so it isn't very easy to open a public dialogue with him about this decision.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on February 06, 2011
at 05:45 PM

Okay, but if I haven't quite leaned out all the way, then I guess I'm not healthy yet. The question is, can adding starches help when you aren't quite at your ideal weight.

0adda19045a3641edac0008364b91110

(1146)

on February 06, 2011
at 04:06 PM

Woah, if I read that right, you eat 3 lambs steaks a day....lucky, I wish I could afford that. Does all the bad stuff in potatoes stay in the skin, or is there some in the actual potato?

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on February 06, 2011
at 01:23 PM

I think fruit really depends on when you have it. If your glycogen stores are low, they'll just go towards filling that up. If they're full, however, that's when problems start.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on February 06, 2011
at 12:34 PM

I've been meat and potatoes for a while now, feel great, perform great. And as long as the quality of the meat and potatoes stay high I'm comfortable with it. I think the negative connotations come from grained meat and veggie oil fried tubers. Those are the plague and an abomination of real food

Medium avatar

(39821)

on February 06, 2011
at 04:50 AM

I read his blog a while back and he seemed to be advocating carnivory and dismissed vegetables in toto. That's about when I stopped reading it. It's good to see that he's come around with regard to healthy starches.

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16 Answers

14
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on February 06, 2011
at 12:31 PM

I gained muscle without gaining fat after my weight loss was complete. A buddy of mine dropped fast while keeping potatoes in the diet.

Wheat Gluten, Oxidized Oils, Fructose.

Those are your poisons. Eat only Whole unprocessed foods(to avoid all the little toxins) while getting 9-10hrs of quality sleep and weight will plummet and health will improve for most people.

If the ingredient list is longer than 1, it's not great food until you're mixing it yourself.


I think this thread was combined, so im editing my answer to conform to the new question...


I was already lean when I re-introduced starches. However, I got ALOT Stronger, Fast.

My Starches are almost exclusively post workout, but not immediately post workout. I wait until my Body tells me eat. Then I FEAST.

Lately ive been doing Okinowan Sweet Potato Tallow Fries and a Pound of Grassfed Beef PWO. MMM.

I'm not yet convinced to eat alot of starch outside of activity, but view it as refueling my body after activity. Ive also noticed that my recovery and performance have improved after including my tubers on Heavy Workout Days.

I still avoid eating ANYTHING pre-workout. I tried tubers preworkout and had a horrible effect on my performance, then again, so did meat. I perform best Fasted.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on February 06, 2011
at 05:51 PM

So do you eat potatoes every day, or just pwo?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on February 08, 2011
at 04:11 PM

Potatoes are mediocre without copious amounts of Kerrygold.

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on February 07, 2011
at 05:57 AM

Curious to hear response to ambimorph's questions, also, did you eat starches while you were losing the fat as well?

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on February 08, 2011
at 02:47 AM

Sorry for the incessant questions, but forgot to include the question of whether or not you combined starches with fats. Leangains style says to go low-fat when you up the carbs, but potatoes just aren't that great when not slathered in butter!

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on February 07, 2011
at 12:23 PM

Me : mostly pwo, the occasional offday. My buddy, daily while losing weight. I lost my weight as LC

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 23, 2011
at 03:59 PM

Thank you for the updated details!

8ea84667a7f11ac3967f2ecfcad28ad8

(641)

on January 07, 2012
at 07:39 PM

+1 Great answer

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on December 24, 2012
at 07:46 AM

But do you eat vegetables/fibers too Stephen? Or are you simply starch + animal based foods?

5
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on December 31, 2011
at 06:13 AM

I originally went Paleo and very low carb at the same time, and initially I felt great. Lots of energy, better mood, reduced appetite, and i lost about 25 pounds and 4 notches on my belt. I was strict low carb, about 25g per day. During this time I was probably burning fat.

But one day, I stopped feeling good, mood and energy declined, had digestive issues, and stopped losing weight. It literally just started happening one day though I hadn't changed diet or anything else. Meanwhile, appetite increased and I often had the munchies. I consciously added back starches, very carefully, primarily sweet potato, banana, plantains, occasional fruit, and almost exclusively post work-out. I started to feel better, not as great as when I was burning fat, but better.

After adding back starch, I gained a few pounds back, but got a little leaner according to my belt. I am not lean or ripped by any measure, and track my diet primarily by my belt. I thought it was interesting that I gained weight but got a little thinner on starches. I had such great success going low carb that I am very reluctant to eat lots of carbs, this might not be a bad idea to try but I just have trouble doing it. I still completely avoid gluten and bad oils, and only very occasionally have other grains (i.e. corn on the cob).

I suspect that my metabolism/digestion was broken in some way when I started, and the period of very low carb fixed it, and now carbs have a different effect on me than they did. Also avoiding wheat has had a major positive effect while some other starches seem relatively harmless. I still have a zero-carb breakfast most days, typically coffee with cream and two eggs. But I make a point to have "good" carbs at least once a day, either sweet potatoes with dinner, or occasionally berries with creaor yogurt for breakfast.

9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

(15833)

on December 31, 2011
at 06:57 PM

I still have trouble eating more than about 50g of carbs per day, the equivalent of two sweet potatoes or bananas.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:52 PM

So how much starch do you eat now?

5
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on March 22, 2011
at 09:45 PM

I went VLC back in August, like 20-40g per day, and then added back starches (rotating potatoes and white rice) a few months ago. I have continued to get more cut in that time frame. That sounds like a very similar situation as you.

EDIT: for Ambimorph per below comment request

I don't have either every day. But I will have seasoned panfried potatoes with my eggs for a weekend breakfast. Or a small bowl of rice with about 3 tablespoons of pasture butter with a couple hardbioled eggs and sardines for lunch at work. We also frequently add potato or rice as a side to our dinners in addition to whatever meat and veggies we are having. I always peel the potato with a skinner. By themselves, neither hold much flavor, but they are both great vehicles for good fats. I don't usually eat starch for PWO, but not because I think it's a bad idea. I just don't really ever desire to eat that right afterwards, so personally I haven't found it very practical.

Cheers

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 22, 2011
at 10:37 PM

Oh, tell me more! How much potato and rice do you eat, and do you time it around training? Honestly, I'm quite afraid of it (because going ZC cured a serious mood disorder, and I never want to go back there), so I would have to proceed cautiously if I tried it.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 23, 2011
at 04:00 PM

Thank you for the update!

4
Medium avatar

on February 06, 2011
at 04:36 AM

I'm thoroughly convinced that fructose intake is the primary determiner of adiposity, not carbohydrate intake (within reason). I eat 2-3 ~275g russets a day. I should be slightly exceeding about 150g of carbs, with about 4-5g of fructose a day. I couldn't really eat much more potato than that since it's already very satisfying. For what it's worth my diet looks like this:

Breakfast: 4 eggs fried in clarified pasture butter, mashed potatoes (butter, whole cream)

Lunch: Lamb steak fried in pasture butter, mashed potatoes

Dinner: "" "" + 2 cups steamed spinach + butter

Then right before bed I'll have another lamb steak. I sleep really well.

There are some odds and ends in there, but that's the gist of it. I really try to cram fat in my diet where I can, so don't assume that the aforementioned involved standard, human portions of butter. I generally pour the pan drippings on the potatoes etc.

I think it's a matter of supplying your body with all raw materials without giving it the lipogenesis signal (fructose). In the presence of abundance & exercise and the absence of fructose, you are creating optimally anabolic conditions. I have been gradually losing my last bits of fat and gaining muscle.

I take the proper precautions and have no fears regarding oxalates or glycoalkaloids.

Good luck.

Edit: You know, it's funny, but I've done so much research into the minutiae of biochemistry and human physiology and tons of experimentation, and when all the dust settles, I end up at "meat 'n' potatoes." I guess that's just the way of things.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on February 06, 2011
at 12:34 PM

I've been meat and potatoes for a while now, feel great, perform great. And as long as the quality of the meat and potatoes stay high I'm comfortable with it. I think the negative connotations come from grained meat and veggie oil fried tubers. Those are the plague and an abomination of real food

0adda19045a3641edac0008364b91110

(1146)

on February 06, 2011
at 04:06 PM

Woah, if I read that right, you eat 3 lambs steaks a day....lucky, I wish I could afford that. Does all the bad stuff in potatoes stay in the skin, or is there some in the actual potato?

Medium avatar

(39821)

on February 06, 2011
at 08:50 PM

You'll find that the fattiest cuts of even grass-fed meat are also the cheapest. There are bones, connective tissue and big gobs of fat all interspersed in the meat and I guess the average person is horrified. It's all grass-fed and 5.99 a pound. I dunno if that's cheap or not, but even buying all grass-fed and organic, the cost of that meat, russet potatoes, butter and spinach isn't that much. I drink only filtered water and don't snack on crap. The idea that healthy food is expensive is a myth.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on March 23, 2011
at 04:59 AM

Travis, could you possibly elaborate as to what you mean by "proper precautions". Do you peel them? ...Fry them or bake them?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on January 06, 2012
at 08:47 AM

Ha! I've had the same revelation. I railed against the badness of "meat and potatoes lifestyle" for a significant portion of my life, and here I am. @rob, I actually switched to lamb steaks because they were cheaper ($5-7/lb. at my otherwise expensive co-op, about $2-3 per meal isn't bad in my book), and discovered that I actually preferred them taste and energy-wise over beef steak, I think that little jewel of leg marrow is what sealed the deal for me.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on January 08, 2012
at 04:57 AM

Any citrus or berries? Any source of Omega 3 besides lamb?

4
D67e7b481854b02110d5a5b21d6789b1

on February 06, 2011
at 04:20 AM

"I think eating 15-20% of calories as starch is healthier than being VLC (very low carbohydrate) on only green veggies and meat. Starchy Plant Organs give you the most useful plant vitamins and minerals, spare your body the work of making your own glucose via gluconeogenesis, keep you out of ketosis, and keep your glycogen stores topped off, all while avoiding the antinutrients in grains. If you are fairly active, you might notice a big difference between 20% starch and 5%. So this makes PaNu very highly aligned with Kwasniewski on both ketosis and potatoes. Ketosis is useful for weight loss, but it is not likely to be optimal to live in ketosis most of the time if you don't have to." Kurt G Harris MD

KGH just updated his carbohydrate post today with significant detail in the final part. The 15-20% is interesting. Although this is just passing along information and not anecdotal as your question requested, I thought it might offer some insight into your ZC change. Not sure "if you dont have to" means, if you don't need to lose weight or get leaner, but just thought I would pass it along in case you have not seen the update yet.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on February 06, 2011
at 05:47 PM

I noticed that yesterday, too. It's a very interesting development. Unfortunately, he no longer allows comments, so it isn't very easy to open a public dialogue with him about this decision.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on February 06, 2011
at 04:50 AM

I read his blog a while back and he seemed to be advocating carnivory and dismissed vegetables in toto. That's about when I stopped reading it. It's good to see that he's come around with regard to healthy starches.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 15, 2011
at 02:33 AM

Travis became famous today as PaNu is about him as of today.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on January 08, 2012
at 05:01 AM

Could you post a link?

2
3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

on January 06, 2012
at 03:20 PM

I do gain weight with starch. The only way I can fight this is by playing around with my food choices. In other words, monotonize it and make it a routine. Stick with one starch. No added salt or sweeteners. Drinke one type of beverage. Exactly the way hunter-gatherers may have eaten when they weren't eating their main meal from a kill: some yams or sweetpotatoes roasted.

If you want to have a feast with a variety of tubers, condiments, and spices, Paleo they may be, it may not work. I'm pretty lean but I do gain weight easily from overeating. My daily weight fluctuation is about 5-7 lbs. with starch -- 157 to 164 -- which is a lot. Without starch, my weight only fluctuates 3-4 pounds.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:36 PM

i agree absolutely, starches can be made to be highly rewarding if you fancy it up with additives and ingredients aka a western diet. but plain ol' tubers are a pretty healthy food

2
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 31, 2011
at 03:45 AM

I did a mostly starch diet and discontinued it because I lost weight that I didn't want to lose. It was mainly shrimp, oysters, coconut milk, fruit, and starch from cassava, Okinawan sweet potatoes, taro, chestnuts, true yam, and cocoyam. I guess it wasn't a lot of fruit, maybe a cup of berries a day. The whole diet was pretty different from my regular diet and featured a lot of foods I hate, so it was hard for me.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:56 AM

I think you must be lying as nobody could hate okinawan sweet potatoes. They are candy.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 31, 2011
at 05:07 PM

Yeah, I'm a picky person to be honest. I think I possibly would have gained weight if I had allowed myself butter.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 04:02 AM

That's funny. It sounds mind-bogglingly delicious to me!

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on December 31, 2011
at 08:21 AM

As Melissa pointed out in her post, the diet was low-reward for her. Another factor.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 04:01 PM

Well, perhaps she couldn't bring herself to eat enough of it?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 31, 2011
at 05:47 AM

I don't like most starches unless they are cooked in butter.

2
4e184df9c1ed38f61febc5d6cf031921

(5005)

on February 06, 2011
at 08:42 AM

I'm so pleased PaNu is apparently endorsing roots and tubers. Over the past few months I've been adding these back into my diet and feel noticeably better for them.

Non gluten grains - i.e. white rice and corn seem to be not too bad too - so I can use cornflour for thickening sauces once in a while and not have to worry? This is so good news!

Fruit he doesn't seem to approve much - I was startled to find that he puts legumes above fruits. I haven't had a legume - much as I love them - for over 15 months. Perhaps those chick peas (with sufficient soaking?!) can make a healthy avocado and chick pea hummus again?! Once in a while....

Fruit - are berries OK or are they also little sugar bombs? I don't think I can go through early summer in the UK without raspberries, strawberries etc. Even just as a vehicle for yet more cream, they are divine.

And Travis, I LOVE your breakfast of eggs on mashed potato! I shall mash some potatoes tonight to heat up tomorrow... With eggs and possibly bacon too....

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on February 06, 2011
at 01:23 PM

I think fruit really depends on when you have it. If your glycogen stores are low, they'll just go towards filling that up. If they're full, however, that's when problems start.

Medium avatar

(39821)

on February 06, 2011
at 08:52 PM

If you're going to eat fruit, pursue the low-fructose varieties, especially if you are trying to lose bodyfat. These would usually be strawberries and raspberries. There may be some others, but those are the go-to low-fructose ones that I would eat were I inclined to eat fruit.

2
463a85858508f1de7a34b548a0340844

on February 06, 2011
at 02:13 AM

Go check out FreeTheAnimal.com and see how Richard talks about starches being fine ONCE YOU'RE HEALTHY!

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on February 06, 2011
at 05:45 PM

Okay, but if I haven't quite leaned out all the way, then I guess I'm not healthy yet. The question is, can adding starches help when you aren't quite at your ideal weight.

1
Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:40 PM

carbs aren't the bad guys, Paleo doesn't have to be low carb, and Taubes' career work about the insulin hypothesis is completely wrong. LOL. nothing is as it seems...

I stalled with about 30+ lbs to go on a conventional Paleo diet (I know, oxymoron). been steadily decreasing in the past 4 weeks following a low reward diet as prescribed by Stephan Guyenet. I feel better, my skin/face looks younger already, and I've dropped 13lbs already!! this is from the last 30 that wouldn't go without restricting my intake. Believe it or not I'm eating 40% cals from starch (mostly plain baked sweet potatoes, white potatoes unsalted or blueberries)

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on January 07, 2012
at 06:53 PM

So glad you posted this. Starting a low reward experiment on myself in a few days. I see some of the things you ate. Did you eat any fat? What else did you eat?

1
60af23519906aa54b742ffc17477c3d3

(1186)

on January 06, 2012
at 02:48 AM

I usually find my body will go through stages. I will be very low carb for a while, and then have a cheat meal with starch (usually potato) and shred up. I think you should shift your macro ratios every now and then if you don't want your body to become complacent. If you're happy with the way your body looks and performs, stick with what you know. It's like weight-lifting. If you do the same thing every day your body gets used to it and will stop improving.

1f8384be58052b6b96f476e475abdc74

(2231)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:40 PM

LIKE with the seasons...

1
9b0a4701e373d4dd13831cfb9b13f42d

(1677)

on December 31, 2011
at 11:31 AM

Starches once added back in caused me to gain muscle with no other change in my regime. I only eat about one sweet potato or yam per day preferably post workout. I stay clear of white rice and prefer tubers, as they seem to provide much more nutrients per calorie and agree more with my German?irish lineage. If I was of Asian lineage it would probably be a different story.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:59 PM

That's interesting. So you eat a low carb diet otherwise? One sweet potato is probably about 30g. I would call this a variation of a TKD.

1
731c701e823fd21bec317420dc0c501d

(10)

on March 22, 2011
at 09:07 PM

What about coconut meat? Like the dried organic stuff, does that count as fruit, and how much should a person eat before it becomes detrimental to weight loss/management? I find myself craving copious amounts of coconut, will eating plenty of this cause weight gain?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 22, 2011
at 09:41 PM

I would think it is more like a nut than a fruit, and, for me, it causes cravings and may stall weight loss. But for you it may be fine, you'd have to experiment. I have no problem with the oil, though.

4d6aa1a676240b15dc569ff8ade0500f

(2546)

on December 31, 2011
at 03:41 AM

def more nut -- it's almost entirely fat!

0
9ffe43c6c5990ed710c7c49b12d6ee7f

on January 08, 2012
at 03:30 AM

I've been steadily losing fat for almost 4 weeks since increasing my carbs (knock on wood). However, my diet is still relatively "low-carb."

Basically, I will have a coffee with cream in the morning, perhaps two, and then fast most of the day. Generally I will have one large meal but sometimes it's two smaller meals.

These meals at the end of my day will include 1 sweet potato, a cup of diluted yogurt (to make a yogurt drink), and possibly fruit - usually a banana, but sometimes citrus or berries. White rice is eaten about twice a week with a few slices of butter, and I live in a potato loving family so I will nosh on some fries or something on occasion. Recently I've been eating a lot of roast pumpkin.

Unfortunately, I am not one of those "routine" people. I just have flexible guidelines and go with the flow, so everyday is different. The main thing is that I'm not afraid of fruit (thanks Nancy!) and I don't save my carbs for only PWO. If anything, I need a banana an hour before a hot yoga session to get me through.

The most important carb sources for me are sweet potatoes and my yogurt. The yogurt has improved my digestion so much - this is the first time I've consistently had a daily probiotic. Sweet potatoes are my favorite starch and I believe the nutrition in them is important since I'm not eating many meals.

I apologize for not sticking to the "starch" topic, but as you can see, I'm doing well with all 3 sugar types - (mainly) glucose, fructose, and (a little) lactose!

0
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on December 31, 2011
at 01:24 PM

In my experience fruit based diets will always make you leaner than starch based, unless you eat the starch plain.

Obviously fructose isn't the primary determinant of adiposity as travis claims, it might just be the fact that fructose metabolism is greatly effected by PUFAs and most peoples favorite treats are soy oil, wheat and HFCS. I dunno but my real life results and many others I've see completely disagree with travis's comment.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on January 01, 2012
at 01:18 PM

without fat......

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on December 31, 2011
at 04:00 PM

By plain, I assume you mean without fat, not without, say, salt or spices?

Cccb899526fb5908f64176e0a74ed2d9

(2801)

on January 06, 2012
at 10:11 PM

Is this on the basis of caloric load, or is there another factor that you're suggesting is at work?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on January 07, 2012
at 09:24 PM

What if you eat your fruit with fat?

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 07, 2012
at 01:19 AM

Fruit tends to be more satiating than tubers. For instance, my blueberries say 90kcal/140g. Tubers are more like 140kcal/140g. The only real negative of fruit (for weight loss) is the sweetness is certainly appealing.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on January 08, 2012
at 02:58 PM

depends on your metabolism and how much of either you eat. Generally its good to eat fruit with protein though. I have no problem mixing lots of fat with fruit but others could have problems because the fat can interfere with sugar metabolism.

0
Cf938ac46500e200c97f6adbb3365f64

(324)

on December 31, 2011
at 02:58 AM

http://freetheanimal.com/2011/05/optimality-a-fools-errand.html found the info for where he talks about starches are good once your healthy dan quinn never posted a link!!!

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