1

votes

Did a carb refeed, experienced some interesting effects

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 16, 2013 at 9:29 AM

So after nearly a year of staying under 100g (less than 50g 90% of the time) I decided to try a carb reefed to aid in losing that last stubborn body fat. I consumed over 300g of carbs throughout the day in the form of rice, fruits, vegetables and some yogurt ice cream. I noticed a huge difference in many aspects and I have some questions regarding them.

  1. During the carb refeed I noticed a huge decline in mood and well being. I felt very anxious and nervous, like overdosing on caffeine, and everything just kind of turned to shit. I had serious problems sitting still, and the calmness I experience on a low-carb diet was gone. Later in the evening I did start to feel a bit better, and when I woke up today I felt great, especially after consuming some fatty cuts of meats again. What is the cause of this? Have I become a bit insulin resistant due to my low-carbing or is it the rush of catecholamines that overwhelmed me? Has anyone experienced anything similar?

  2. My weight increased by nearly six pounds of water weight, most likely due to the carbs filling up my glycogen stores. I usually consume over 200g of proteins a day (due to the fact that I eat between two and four pounds of red meat daily), but have never ever felt this "pumped" while on a low carb diet. Does this mean that there isn't a big portion of the protein that goes to waste through gluconeogenesis during my normal diet?

  3. My weight lifting training improved incredibly. I could workout for an hour with very little break (10-20 sec between sets) and did not experience fatigue. While I did not lift significantly stronger than usually, I just never felt tired and did not have to lower the weights in between sets. I just felt like I could lift anything. Have I limited my progress by limiting carbs or have my body improved my utilization of energy in some way? I never felt like this while training on a high-carb diet.

I am a 22 year old male, 180 pounds (10-12% body fat) and very active.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I'm just trying to prevent you from being scammed and jumping from one extreme diet to the next. it seems that merely saying so doesn't usually do the trick, so I thought I'd be adamant about it. Was trying to help I'm sorry my pic offended you. I've considered changing it but I forgot my gravatar.com username/password.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 24, 2013
at 09:24 AM

Don't be afraid to eat. If you fear food and don't eat, that only fuels the whole process. You need good food to maintain rational thought. I found the more I deprived myself of food, in fact, even when I ate whilst getting better from anorexia (when not purging) I thought more about food in a negative manner, I thought about myself and my life in a negative manner, I closed myself off from life more and my thoughts were so very irrational. The horomonal imbalances caused by lack of nutrition were magnified when I didn't eat or ate badly and this revealed itself in my behaviour. Catch22.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 24, 2013
at 09:03 AM

No problem. My height is 5'10'', my weight is 77kg. I know this is high but I felt I had to get heavier to get better. I am really muscular and I don't look 'pre-obese'. I workout a lot and would say have a bf% of ~20-22% I spent the first 6 months of paleo just sorting out my eating and enjoying food, a bit like a bulk and cut if you will. I wanted to get my head right first and fuel my body properly. Now I have stepped up the exercise and dialled in the eating to 24/6/70 of P/C/F. I got that from http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ I am training for a triathlon now and I am losing the fat.

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 23, 2013
at 08:16 AM

Thank you so much for sharing your story! Can I further ask you about your height and weight now? Your macroratios and approx. calorie intake? I'm starting to find it difficult to convince myself to eat again and I've lost weight recently so I'm trying to get some reference points from others. Feel free to reply to my email t larsen894 at gmail. com if you want to do that.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 22, 2013
at 09:57 PM

happy and satiated. I am able to eat food and not crave things. The food I crave is the food I am able to eat!! Everything I used to eat in my binges were all the things I restricted in my daily life and mostly fat. What wasn't fatty food or vessels for fat, was sugar ladened. Now I am keto-primal and I feel so much happier, healthier and in control. I don't miss heavy, starchy carbs as I was never that into them anyway, I only used them for butter. Rarely I miss SAD food. Spaghetti as we don't have spaghetti squash here but aside from that, I love primal life. Mentally and physically healthy.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 22, 2013
at 09:52 PM

low in fat myself; it just led me to binging. Aside from my poor eating history, I have always been interested by nutrition and exercise. I love biology, chemistry and physics and find how the human body works, fascinating. I felt broken and didn't know how to fix myself. Then I stumbled across paleo. I bought The Paleo Solution and it all made sense. I read some papers and couldn't see the fault in it. Having never done fad diets (believe it or not) I was sceptical but I thought I would give this one a go as it seemed much more than a diet and grounded in sound science. It worked. It made me

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 22, 2013
at 09:48 PM

You may! I was very overweight as a child and teenager and realised I needed to lose weight when it came to the school formal (equivalent to high school prom). I lost weight but continued to lose weight until I became anorexic. My parents force fed me but that only turned me bulimic. I was happy I could eat whatever foods I wanted because I found a way of not 'storing' them. Except that's false. I became normal weight despite continuing to binge then purge until the unhappiness became too much. I was fed up with my life and I knew there was a better way to eat. Low fat didn't make me happy or

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 20, 2013
at 07:32 AM

@OmNomBacon, Thanks a lot, the support is very much appreciated! I've realised that you don't get rid of an eating disorder alone, you need the support from everyone. I started losing weight due to excessive exercise and orthorexia. I have a medical insurance via my job which got me into therapy because I couldn't relax and wanted to become less stressed in general. I had no idea I had an eating disorder already back then. But boy am I glad I started therapy so early otherwise I'm not sure where I would have ended up. What's your story? If I may ask.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 19, 2013
at 03:59 PM

@Foreveryoung: It all makes sense now. As with Hemming I've seen you about a lot on this forum. I have diasgreed with some things you have said except not fully. I realised I just disagreed with your 'tone'. You answer things really well with great science and give a damn good argument. You just always seemed quite intolerant of low carb eating plans. I now understand why, where your passion comes from. I too suffer(ed) from an eating disorder but I am finding a low carb primal diet is working the best for me. My addiction to carbs was my downfall, their removal, currently the answer...so far.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 19, 2013
at 03:54 PM

@Hemming: I wish you all the best dude. I've seen you about quite a bit on this forum (and others actually) and I like the cut o' yer jib. You ask good questions, answer others really well and seem a genuinely nice, modest and honest guy. I'm glad to see you're getting the help now. How did your diagnosis come about, you say you got therapy before realising you had an eating disorder, how did that happen?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 07:12 PM

this is why I speak so harshly about "gurus"

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 07:07 PM

are profiting off the fear they instill in consumers and are mostly just quacks. they are selling a fad diet, not a lifestyle. A healthy lifestyle cannot be built around a negative relationship with food.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 07:06 PM

For me, the extreme orthorexia went away gradually as I gained muscle weight. I used to tell my doctors that if they could not see me physically, that if their were a veil over me, they would call me a paranoid and delusional schizophrenic. Anorexia is more of a compulsion to deal with those delusions. it's an addiction and a compulsion, that's how I see it, and it should be treated similarly. The orthorexia was gone mostly, but did return for a while after I read Sisson's book and got into paleo. But after gaining body fat and losing muscle on low carb primal, I quickly realized these guys

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 07:01 PM

@ Hemming- I am 23 now. And am I totally past it? That's a really hard question to answer. I now have no conscious desire to restrict calories and the compulsion to do so is not really there any more. It is more of an old habit that dies hard, rather than a compulsion that I'm actively fighting every second. Now that I know how to create the ideal body that I would want for myself, I just constantly strive towards that, even though I'll never get there.And I've learned that restricting calories and carbs to that degree is no way to get there.I try to see certain foods as medicine, not poison.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:57 PM

talks at treatment facilities as an example of someone who has "overcome" the disorder. Does that mean I don't have anorexic/orthorexic tendencies anymore? Absolutely not. Does that mean i have learned to deal with them so that they don't disrupt my wellbeing? Yeah I think so.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:54 PM

@ Hemming- I am 23 now. And am I totally past it? That's a really hard question to answer. I now have no conscious desire to restrict calories and the compulsion to do so is not really there any more. It is more of an old habit that dies hard, rather than a compulsion that I'm actively fighting every second. Now that I know how to create the ideal body that I would want for myself, I just constantly strive towards that, even though I'll never get there. And I've learned that restricting calories and carbs to that degree is no way to get there. I'm recovered enough that I am invited to give

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:30 PM

@Chelsea, you miss the point. I didn't say that low-carb or paleo was the reason for my eating disorder. I'm orthorexic - that could happen on any diet/lifestyle. Usually people are afraid of fat, I'm afraid of carbs, bread etc. I'm happy to hear both of you got better. @foreveryoung, how old are you now and are you totally past it?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:14 PM

But congratulations on getting better. that's wonderful but take some credit. You got saved you- not paleo.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:14 PM

the food selections (at the places I went to) were just as good as any college campus. Organic salad bar, gluten free options, meats, fish, and vegetables. They ask you if you allergies or food sensitivities before hand, and you can easily say gluten and dairy. You can't say carbs though.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:11 PM

i agree that people and the support of family are the most important...but sometimes it's not enough...particularly if you are very sick and will like to every one them to continue on with your illness. Some people (most) need an intervention that they can't dodge. I was able to eat incredibly clean at one of my institutions. And, when you are truly so underweight that you will literally die of heart/organ failure/starvation if you are not fed, then even a Cheeseburger, french fries, and a milkshake is GOOD for you because it means you won't die. That being said, when i wasn't being tube fed

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:08 PM

and you saved you from your eating disorder. Not paleo.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:07 PM

That was not my experience at all. I was able to eat incredibly clean at one of my institutions. And, when you are truly that underweight, even a cheeseburger, french fries, and a milkshake is WAYY better than dying of starvation. I was never prescribed any drugs during treatment either. If I didn't go there is no doubt in my mind I'd be dead by now.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:06 PM

That was not my experience at all. I was able to eat incredibly clean at one of my institutions. And, when you are truly that sick, a cheeseburger and french fries is WAYY better than dying of starvation. I was never prescribed any drugs during treatment either. If I didn't go there is no doubt in my mind I'd be dead by now.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:04 PM

That was not my experience at all. I was able to eat incredibly clean at one of my institutions. And, when you are truly that sick, a cheeseburger and french fries is WAYY better than dying of starvation.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:02 PM

Dude, he looks almost exactly like eugene levy. it's an undeniable fact. i didn't say EL was unattractive, I just insinuated that neither of them look like fitness enthusiasts. Is that an insult, well I guess it is and it should be if you're in the business of disseminating fitness information regarding how to build muscle and get lean. it's about the only pre requisite because anyone can write their theory about what works and give or sell it to people. Would you trust someone to give you sailing advice who's never actually captained a boat before?Excuse me for raising my standards.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:59 PM

I don't agree, paleo saved my from an eating disorder. The nature of low carb is very calming to the mind.However, a I was so starved of fat and protein that I just ate and ate. Of course I have added some fruit/starch after 2 years. But coming from someone who was very sick, it works. Institutions are just a drug fest. They stuff crap down your throat and drug you into a comatose state. Paleo and the support of my family are the most effective

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:59 PM

Dude, he looks almost exactly like eugene levy. it's an undeniable fact. i didn't say EL was unattractive, I just insinuated that neither of them look like fitness enthusiasts. Is that an insult, well I guess it is and it should be if you're in the business of disseminating fitness information regarding how to build muscle and get lean. it's about the only pre requisite because anyone can write there theory about what works and give or sell it to people.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:52 PM

I read your other question knowing in advance what it would be, considering that there is a strong correlation between extreme dieting and binge eating. Am I douche for lifting my shirt up or pointing out that you have a problem? Or is it for saying that McDonald looks like Eugene Levy? If you don't like my profile pic then sorry it's not nudity so there's nothing you can do about it. You have an eating disorder that is not going to get better when you jump from one extreme to the next. They look like brothers if not twins (from the 1 of 2 pics available of Mcdonald on the web).

606f2967e2ada25eb0bc2ed677ec2845

(364)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:49 PM

No, I would say your definately vein, otherwise you wouldn't of commented on how lyle mcdonald looks either. Just to let you know I never read most of what you just wrote and to be honest have no interest in hearing from you again, good day sir.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:41 PM

I'm just trying to prevent you from being scammed and jumping from one extreme diet to the next. Was trying to help I'm sorry my pic offended you.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:40 PM

This is a fitness and health website abd abs are the universal symbol for being in shape so not exactly out of place. So I suppose if you owned a matisse (or other work of art) you'd hide underneath your bed? it's funny how the only people I've ever been called vein by before are (a) people on this website and (b) guys that I've never actually met before. No girlfriend has ever called me vein because I lift my shirt up for a picture. I don't take and post selfies on facebook and this isn't even a selfie (someone else took it). I didn't want a pic of my face so everyone know who I am.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:34 PM

This is a fitness and health website abd abs are the universal symbol for being in shape so not exactly out of place. So I suppose if you owned a matisse (or other work of art) you'd hide underneath your bed?

606f2967e2ada25eb0bc2ed677ec2845

(364)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:20 PM

No I didn't alot of his stuff can be found free online, and you sound like quite a douche...and judging by your paloehacks pic you are probably incredibly vain

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:16 PM

Then that guy is a fucking idiot. I seriously hope you did not pay to hear that bull shit. I don't recommend taking fitness advice from guys who look no better than Eugene Levy.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:12 PM

own volition. .

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:12 PM

You don't have to describe because I have been there before. I became anorexic at age 12 and was in 3 different treatment facilities between the ages of 13 and 15 and didn't actually recover until 16. I weighed 58lbs at age 15 and have burns on my legs from sleeping with hot water bottles. I was court ordered to two of those places, have scar tissue in my nasal passages from pulling out feeding tubes and then having them reinserted again. I know exactly where you're coming from. It's really important to get help in a facility though, because honestly it's just too much to get better upon one's

606f2967e2ada25eb0bc2ed677ec2845

(364)

on April 16, 2013
at 04:58 PM

Im following lyle mcdonalds cyclic keto diet, he reccommends refeeds up to 1200g carbs if i remember correctly, lyle knows hes stuff aswell

Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on April 16, 2013
at 04:48 PM

awesome answer!

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 16, 2013
at 04:45 PM

Thanks man, it means more than you think. i can't describe how awful it is both physically and mentally. Like I have to wear compression socks all the time at age 26. And then the constant thought about optimal foods, macro ratios and timing of meals. Simply obsessing about everything about food. I'm just glad I started therapy before I realised I had an eating disorder, otherwise I don't dare to think where I would have ended.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:57 PM

hemming I feel for you. There are some really great treatment facilities out there. Good luck bro.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:51 PM

Why so extreme? 750g of carbs is totally unnecessary, and what you're doing is called yo-yo-ing, not carb cycling. I am not surprised by the title of your only other question. In fact I actually expected it.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:48 PM

What you're doing is called yo-yo-ing. This is way beyond the scope of simply carb cycling.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:47 PM

750 grams is TOTALLY unnecessary. Why does it have to be extreme, and why am I not surprised that your only other question is binge related?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:46 PM

Hemming I feel for you. Good luck, bro.

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:59 PM

Ah, sorry. I now see how that could be misunderstood. I meant that my previous diet was very low carb. I don't run currently and haven't done so for a couple of months. I still have a problem with certain but I'm working with psychiatrist on that but there is still a long way to go. Hopefully I'll be getting medical assistance very soon.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:44 PM

You're recovering from an eating disorder on a low carb diet (and long distance running)? I am genuinely curious to know how that is going? Doctor's are actually recommending this? Not trying to sound snarky, but if it's anorexia you're "recovering" from, restricting carbs is antagonistic to the end goal (healthy relationship with food and weight gain).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:39 PM

You're recovering from an eating disorder on a low carb diet (and long distance running)? I am very curious to know how that is going? Which doctor's are you seeing that are recommending this? Not trying to sound snarky, but if it's anorexia you're "recovering" from, restricting carbs is antagonistic to the end goal (healthy relationship with food and weight gain).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:37 PM

You're recovering from an eating disorder on a low carb diet? I am very curious to know how that is going? Which doctor's are you seeing that are recommending this? Not trying to sound snarky, but if it's anorexia you're "recovering" from, restricting carbs is antagonistic to the end goal (healthy relationship with food and weight gain).

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4 Answers

3
1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

on April 16, 2013
at 02:54 PM

  1. CarboHYDRATES do cause you to hold water, and being hydrated is a good thing, not a bad thing in the long run. The reason some people retain water subcutaneously and not intra- muscularly is due to a lack of muscular insulin sensitivity (when your muscle cells are not insulin sensitive and your fat cells are). So, when this is the case, water will store under the skin and give you the appearance of being bloated. On the contrary, when your muscle cells are insulin sensitive and your fat cells are not, carbohydrate will be stored intra muscularly and not subcutaneously, giving you the appearance of being LEANER because your skin is tighter around your now somewhat inflated muscles. (why do think fitness models "carb up" with things like rice cakes and honey before a competition? It's not to look fat...it's to look more shredded).

  2. Fat is only efficiently burned for energy in the flame of adequate carbohydrate. This is 100% true. Without adequate carbs you enter ketosis (which I'm sure you know). Ketosis is a starvation response and a survival mechanism, whereby fat is INEFFICIENTLY burned for energy so as to keep us alive longer. Fat, being our least metabolically expensive tissue, is horded, while muscle mass (our most metabolically active tissue) is broken down for gluconeogenesis because we, as primates, do not have the highly upregulated gluconeogenic pathways that can keep up with glucose and muscle synthesis demands that felines have.

For every one glucose molecule 6 water molecules are needed. What you gained in weight is water (hydration), NOT fat. Weighing yourself for any other reason besides needing to "make weight" for a sport is an entirely useless endeavor.

  1. Yes you have DEFINITELY limited your progress with both muscle gain and fat loss (and probably among other things as well) by restricting your carb consumption.

  2. ERGO long term low carb diets for weight training athletes or people looking to build muscle while staying lean are retarded. Long term low carb diets are also bad for those trying to get lean and stay lean. Low carb diets are only useful in the short term for people who are already quite lean and looking to drop the last few percentages of bodyfat to look "competition ready." All other uses besides those for treatment of certain disorders are MISuses and detrimental to long term central nervous and adrenal health.

If you need to lose weight (Fat) then reduce your calories but keep carbs adequate, between the 30-50% of calorie range. If you need to gain lean body mass, increase calories slightly above maintenance and eat carbs between the 40-50% of calories range.

Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on April 16, 2013
at 04:48 PM

awesome answer!

3
Medium avatar

on April 16, 2013
at 09:39 AM

Welcome to leangains basically.

  1. Carbs are a stimulant. Try going a year without caffeine then down a few cups, and see what happens. You'll get used to it, give it time. I've been there, 5 months no carbs then bam. Stay no carb except when you train. And don't eat carbs little by little like that all day. Workout hard. Eat 300g carbs. Later eat protein. Done.

  2. Water and glycogen. You'll drop fat soon if you follow above. Protein will never make you bloat up, only carbs will.

  3. YUP!!

0
Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:15 PM

I'm recovering from an eating disorder and diet (I know it's not exactly your situation) where I had very few carbs too. I was very surprised by the magnitude and speed of the water retention. Additionally, I had a bad case of refeeding syndrome. How quickly the water retention went away again also surprised me.

The 'insulin resistance' is transient as it's not pathological but physiological. Here (scroll down to the section 'On Physiological versus Pathological Insulin Resistance') Mat Lalonde explains it. From his explanation it makes sense.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:08 PM

and you saved you from your eating disorder. Not paleo.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 07:12 PM

this is why I speak so harshly about "gurus"

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:59 PM

Ah, sorry. I now see how that could be misunderstood. I meant that my previous diet was very low carb. I don't run currently and haven't done so for a couple of months. I still have a problem with certain but I'm working with psychiatrist on that but there is still a long way to go. Hopefully I'll be getting medical assistance very soon.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:14 PM

the food selections (at the places I went to) were just as good as any college campus. Organic salad bar, gluten free options, meats, fish, and vegetables. They ask you if you allergies or food sensitivities before hand, and you can easily say gluten and dairy. You can't say carbs though.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:57 PM

talks at treatment facilities as an example of someone who has "overcome" the disorder. Does that mean I don't have anorexic/orthorexic tendencies anymore? Absolutely not. Does that mean i have learned to deal with them so that they don't disrupt my wellbeing? Yeah I think so.

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 16, 2013
at 04:45 PM

Thanks man, it means more than you think. i can't describe how awful it is both physically and mentally. Like I have to wear compression socks all the time at age 26. And then the constant thought about optimal foods, macro ratios and timing of meals. Simply obsessing about everything about food. I'm just glad I started therapy before I realised I had an eating disorder, otherwise I don't dare to think where I would have ended.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:39 PM

You're recovering from an eating disorder on a low carb diet (and long distance running)? I am very curious to know how that is going? Which doctor's are you seeing that are recommending this? Not trying to sound snarky, but if it's anorexia you're "recovering" from, restricting carbs is antagonistic to the end goal (healthy relationship with food and weight gain).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:57 PM

hemming I feel for you. There are some really great treatment facilities out there. Good luck bro.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:37 PM

You're recovering from an eating disorder on a low carb diet? I am very curious to know how that is going? Which doctor's are you seeing that are recommending this? Not trying to sound snarky, but if it's anorexia you're "recovering" from, restricting carbs is antagonistic to the end goal (healthy relationship with food and weight gain).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:04 PM

That was not my experience at all. I was able to eat incredibly clean at one of my institutions. And, when you are truly that sick, a cheeseburger and french fries is WAYY better than dying of starvation.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 07:06 PM

For me, the extreme orthorexia went away gradually as I gained muscle weight. I used to tell my doctors that if they could not see me physically, that if their were a veil over me, they would call me a paranoid and delusional schizophrenic. Anorexia is more of a compulsion to deal with those delusions. it's an addiction and a compulsion, that's how I see it, and it should be treated similarly. The orthorexia was gone mostly, but did return for a while after I read Sisson's book and got into paleo. But after gaining body fat and losing muscle on low carb primal, I quickly realized these guys

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:14 PM

But congratulations on getting better. that's wonderful but take some credit. You got saved you- not paleo.

2a00b9a42e4cb6e489a0e69d20714576

(3043)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:59 PM

I don't agree, paleo saved my from an eating disorder. The nature of low carb is very calming to the mind.However, a I was so starved of fat and protein that I just ate and ate. Of course I have added some fruit/starch after 2 years. But coming from someone who was very sick, it works. Institutions are just a drug fest. They stuff crap down your throat and drug you into a comatose state. Paleo and the support of my family are the most effective

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 07:07 PM

are profiting off the fear they instill in consumers and are mostly just quacks. they are selling a fad diet, not a lifestyle. A healthy lifestyle cannot be built around a negative relationship with food.

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:30 PM

@Chelsea, you miss the point. I didn't say that low-carb or paleo was the reason for my eating disorder. I'm orthorexic - that could happen on any diet/lifestyle. Usually people are afraid of fat, I'm afraid of carbs, bread etc. I'm happy to hear both of you got better. @foreveryoung, how old are you now and are you totally past it?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:12 PM

You don't have to describe because I have been there before. I became anorexic at age 12 and was in 3 different treatment facilities between the ages of 13 and 15 and didn't actually recover until 16. I weighed 58lbs at age 15 and have burns on my legs from sleeping with hot water bottles. I was court ordered to two of those places, have scar tissue in my nasal passages from pulling out feeding tubes and then having them reinserted again. I know exactly where you're coming from. It's really important to get help in a facility though, because honestly it's just too much to get better upon one's

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:11 PM

i agree that people and the support of family are the most important...but sometimes it's not enough...particularly if you are very sick and will like to every one them to continue on with your illness. Some people (most) need an intervention that they can't dodge. I was able to eat incredibly clean at one of my institutions. And, when you are truly so underweight that you will literally die of heart/organ failure/starvation if you are not fed, then even a Cheeseburger, french fries, and a milkshake is GOOD for you because it means you won't die. That being said, when i wasn't being tube fed

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:12 PM

own volition. .

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:06 PM

That was not my experience at all. I was able to eat incredibly clean at one of my institutions. And, when you are truly that sick, a cheeseburger and french fries is WAYY better than dying of starvation. I was never prescribed any drugs during treatment either. If I didn't go there is no doubt in my mind I'd be dead by now.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:46 PM

Hemming I feel for you. Good luck, bro.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 02:44 PM

You're recovering from an eating disorder on a low carb diet (and long distance running)? I am genuinely curious to know how that is going? Doctor's are actually recommending this? Not trying to sound snarky, but if it's anorexia you're "recovering" from, restricting carbs is antagonistic to the end goal (healthy relationship with food and weight gain).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:54 PM

@ Hemming- I am 23 now. And am I totally past it? That's a really hard question to answer. I now have no conscious desire to restrict calories and the compulsion to do so is not really there any more. It is more of an old habit that dies hard, rather than a compulsion that I'm actively fighting every second. Now that I know how to create the ideal body that I would want for myself, I just constantly strive towards that, even though I'll never get there. And I've learned that restricting calories and carbs to that degree is no way to get there. I'm recovered enough that I am invited to give

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:07 PM

That was not my experience at all. I was able to eat incredibly clean at one of my institutions. And, when you are truly that underweight, even a cheeseburger, french fries, and a milkshake is WAYY better than dying of starvation. I was never prescribed any drugs during treatment either. If I didn't go there is no doubt in my mind I'd be dead by now.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 07:01 PM

@ Hemming- I am 23 now. And am I totally past it? That's a really hard question to answer. I now have no conscious desire to restrict calories and the compulsion to do so is not really there any more. It is more of an old habit that dies hard, rather than a compulsion that I'm actively fighting every second. Now that I know how to create the ideal body that I would want for myself, I just constantly strive towards that, even though I'll never get there.And I've learned that restricting calories and carbs to that degree is no way to get there.I try to see certain foods as medicine, not poison.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 19, 2013
at 03:59 PM

@Foreveryoung: It all makes sense now. As with Hemming I've seen you about a lot on this forum. I have diasgreed with some things you have said except not fully. I realised I just disagreed with your 'tone'. You answer things really well with great science and give a damn good argument. You just always seemed quite intolerant of low carb eating plans. I now understand why, where your passion comes from. I too suffer(ed) from an eating disorder but I am finding a low carb primal diet is working the best for me. My addiction to carbs was my downfall, their removal, currently the answer...so far.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 19, 2013
at 03:54 PM

@Hemming: I wish you all the best dude. I've seen you about quite a bit on this forum (and others actually) and I like the cut o' yer jib. You ask good questions, answer others really well and seem a genuinely nice, modest and honest guy. I'm glad to see you're getting the help now. How did your diagnosis come about, you say you got therapy before realising you had an eating disorder, how did that happen?

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 24, 2013
at 09:03 AM

No problem. My height is 5'10'', my weight is 77kg. I know this is high but I felt I had to get heavier to get better. I am really muscular and I don't look 'pre-obese'. I workout a lot and would say have a bf% of ~20-22% I spent the first 6 months of paleo just sorting out my eating and enjoying food, a bit like a bulk and cut if you will. I wanted to get my head right first and fuel my body properly. Now I have stepped up the exercise and dialled in the eating to 24/6/70 of P/C/F. I got that from http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ I am training for a triathlon now and I am losing the fat.

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 23, 2013
at 08:16 AM

Thank you so much for sharing your story! Can I further ask you about your height and weight now? Your macroratios and approx. calorie intake? I'm starting to find it difficult to convince myself to eat again and I've lost weight recently so I'm trying to get some reference points from others. Feel free to reply to my email t larsen894 at gmail. com if you want to do that.

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on April 20, 2013
at 07:32 AM

@OmNomBacon, Thanks a lot, the support is very much appreciated! I've realised that you don't get rid of an eating disorder alone, you need the support from everyone. I started losing weight due to excessive exercise and orthorexia. I have a medical insurance via my job which got me into therapy because I couldn't relax and wanted to become less stressed in general. I had no idea I had an eating disorder already back then. But boy am I glad I started therapy so early otherwise I'm not sure where I would have ended up. What's your story? If I may ask.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 22, 2013
at 09:48 PM

You may! I was very overweight as a child and teenager and realised I needed to lose weight when it came to the school formal (equivalent to high school prom). I lost weight but continued to lose weight until I became anorexic. My parents force fed me but that only turned me bulimic. I was happy I could eat whatever foods I wanted because I found a way of not 'storing' them. Except that's false. I became normal weight despite continuing to binge then purge until the unhappiness became too much. I was fed up with my life and I knew there was a better way to eat. Low fat didn't make me happy or

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 22, 2013
at 09:52 PM

low in fat myself; it just led me to binging. Aside from my poor eating history, I have always been interested by nutrition and exercise. I love biology, chemistry and physics and find how the human body works, fascinating. I felt broken and didn't know how to fix myself. Then I stumbled across paleo. I bought The Paleo Solution and it all made sense. I read some papers and couldn't see the fault in it. Having never done fad diets (believe it or not) I was sceptical but I thought I would give this one a go as it seemed much more than a diet and grounded in sound science. It worked. It made me

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 22, 2013
at 09:57 PM

happy and satiated. I am able to eat food and not crave things. The food I crave is the food I am able to eat!! Everything I used to eat in my binges were all the things I restricted in my daily life and mostly fat. What wasn't fatty food or vessels for fat, was sugar ladened. Now I am keto-primal and I feel so much happier, healthier and in control. I don't miss heavy, starchy carbs as I was never that into them anyway, I only used them for butter. Rarely I miss SAD food. Spaghetti as we don't have spaghetti squash here but aside from that, I love primal life. Mentally and physically healthy.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on April 24, 2013
at 09:24 AM

Don't be afraid to eat. If you fear food and don't eat, that only fuels the whole process. You need good food to maintain rational thought. I found the more I deprived myself of food, in fact, even when I ate whilst getting better from anorexia (when not purging) I thought more about food in a negative manner, I thought about myself and my life in a negative manner, I closed myself off from life more and my thoughts were so very irrational. The horomonal imbalances caused by lack of nutrition were magnified when I didn't eat or ate badly and this revealed itself in my behaviour. Catch22.

0
606f2967e2ada25eb0bc2ed677ec2845

(364)

on April 16, 2013
at 12:44 PM

Yeah refeeds can be awesome. I use them to fill my glycogen stores on one day of the week and then ~25g carb the rest of the week. I usally hit up about 750 carbs though, cyclic keto basically

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:48 PM

What you're doing is called yo-yo-ing. This is way beyond the scope of simply carb cycling.

606f2967e2ada25eb0bc2ed677ec2845

(364)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:49 PM

No, I would say your definately vein, otherwise you wouldn't of commented on how lyle mcdonald looks either. Just to let you know I never read most of what you just wrote and to be honest have no interest in hearing from you again, good day sir.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:16 PM

Then that guy is a fucking idiot. I seriously hope you did not pay to hear that bull shit. I don't recommend taking fitness advice from guys who look no better than Eugene Levy.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I'm just trying to prevent you from being scammed and jumping from one extreme diet to the next. it seems that merely saying so doesn't usually do the trick, so I thought I'd be adamant about it. Was trying to help I'm sorry my pic offended you. I've considered changing it but I forgot my gravatar.com username/password.

606f2967e2ada25eb0bc2ed677ec2845

(364)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:20 PM

No I didn't alot of his stuff can be found free online, and you sound like quite a douche...and judging by your paloehacks pic you are probably incredibly vain

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:51 PM

Why so extreme? 750g of carbs is totally unnecessary, and what you're doing is called yo-yo-ing, not carb cycling. I am not surprised by the title of your only other question. In fact I actually expected it.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:34 PM

This is a fitness and health website abd abs are the universal symbol for being in shape so not exactly out of place. So I suppose if you owned a matisse (or other work of art) you'd hide underneath your bed?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 06:02 PM

Dude, he looks almost exactly like eugene levy. it's an undeniable fact. i didn't say EL was unattractive, I just insinuated that neither of them look like fitness enthusiasts. Is that an insult, well I guess it is and it should be if you're in the business of disseminating fitness information regarding how to build muscle and get lean. it's about the only pre requisite because anyone can write their theory about what works and give or sell it to people. Would you trust someone to give you sailing advice who's never actually captained a boat before?Excuse me for raising my standards.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:41 PM

I'm just trying to prevent you from being scammed and jumping from one extreme diet to the next. Was trying to help I'm sorry my pic offended you.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:59 PM

Dude, he looks almost exactly like eugene levy. it's an undeniable fact. i didn't say EL was unattractive, I just insinuated that neither of them look like fitness enthusiasts. Is that an insult, well I guess it is and it should be if you're in the business of disseminating fitness information regarding how to build muscle and get lean. it's about the only pre requisite because anyone can write there theory about what works and give or sell it to people.

606f2967e2ada25eb0bc2ed677ec2845

(364)

on April 16, 2013
at 04:58 PM

Im following lyle mcdonalds cyclic keto diet, he reccommends refeeds up to 1200g carbs if i remember correctly, lyle knows hes stuff aswell

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 03:47 PM

750 grams is TOTALLY unnecessary. Why does it have to be extreme, and why am I not surprised that your only other question is binge related?

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:52 PM

I read your other question knowing in advance what it would be, considering that there is a strong correlation between extreme dieting and binge eating. Am I douche for lifting my shirt up or pointing out that you have a problem? Or is it for saying that McDonald looks like Eugene Levy? If you don't like my profile pic then sorry it's not nudity so there's nothing you can do about it. You have an eating disorder that is not going to get better when you jump from one extreme to the next. They look like brothers if not twins (from the 1 of 2 pics available of Mcdonald on the web).

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 16, 2013
at 05:40 PM

This is a fitness and health website abd abs are the universal symbol for being in shape so not exactly out of place. So I suppose if you owned a matisse (or other work of art) you'd hide underneath your bed? it's funny how the only people I've ever been called vein by before are (a) people on this website and (b) guys that I've never actually met before. No girlfriend has ever called me vein because I lift my shirt up for a picture. I don't take and post selfies on facebook and this isn't even a selfie (someone else took it). I didn't want a pic of my face so everyone know who I am.

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