2

votes

Carbs are pathogenic: what do you think?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 14, 2012 at 2:13 AM

I know that the site and the article hosted there may not look very serious, but let's just omit the form and get straight to the subject: http://www.biblelife.org/carbs.htm What do you think? I'm asking community because I would like to translate the article (or, at least, parts of it) to Russian and spread it further.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:22 PM

Also, I just got 2 downvotes on answer! New high score!

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:17 PM

That's speculation Bdb5, with little to no actual evidence supporting it (again, unless the carb is refined fructose).

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 06:18 PM

Agreed. Omnivory gives us many tools to handle a variety of food landscapes and to adjust to the seasons, and even survive a bit without food, but just because we are able to do certain things to survive does not make any of those ideal and without trade offs.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on October 14, 2012
at 04:42 PM

Not in every person, Bbd5.

98bf2ca7f8778c79cd3f6c962011cfdc

(24286)

on October 14, 2012
at 12:55 PM

I would never support passing along this kind of nonsense to anyone. I support low carb all the way but it's this kind of writing that makes the LC community look like a bunch of fruitcakes. Look to Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat if you need easy to understand verbiage about carbohydrate and the problems surrounding carbohydrate intake.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on October 14, 2012
at 12:39 PM

Though your body can produce those things, I like the way the Jaminets put it--why stress your body by making it do all those things itself? Why not eat some carbs for the glucose, etc.? Just because your body CAN do something doesn't mean it's ideal most of the time.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 11:26 AM

Eating lots of carbs → fatty liver → hepatic insulin resistance

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:36 AM

It is an interesting stance for a bible affiliated group to take, just about every modern religion has strong ties and rituals related to the harvest of grain and fruit.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:19 AM

I think for people who are capable of seeing shades of grey in arguments I would point them towards Gary Taubes work for a well researched version of this argument. As much as I don't like scare tactics and hysteria, I'm realizing that the intended audience of this article is likely for those who prefer to deal in absolutes, and if it takes carbs=death to get parishioners to put down the Little Debby cakes and sweet tea in favor of steak, eggs, and broccoli by all means translate this, just know that it isn't an intellectually honest argument when you get down to the nitty gritty.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:12 AM

I didn't see a new question out there on the main page, so here's a link to some info about iron stealing bacteria. "Actinomyces spp., Mycobacterium spp., pathogenic strains of E.Coli, Corynebacterium spp. and many others" --http://www.gaps.me/?page_id=20 And the "how" of it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080731140223.htm

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 05:16 AM

Your body can produce many substances it needs for life; carbs, cholesterol, saturated fats, and creatine for example as long as you have the necessary precursors. That fact alone is not sufficient reason to avoid such substances, especially when they may have benefits or are found in healthy, nutrient rich foods.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 04:47 AM

Hyperinsulinemia is a product of insulin resistance, not the normal physiological insulin response accompanying carbohydrate consumption, just as high triglycerides are not the result of eating lots of fat. The link between carbs and insulin resistance is only convincing when looking at refined fructose, not fruits and tubers.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 04:17 AM

Not ironic, Colin :(

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 04:01 AM

I'm not bashing carbs. I don't have weigh to lose and that's why I started this discussion — to not let this weigh get in :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:53 AM

Why not rely on one's liver and its evolutional function of gluconeogenesis? It can produce enough carbs from protein to support brain function. Fructose is a poison, even for healthy people. Why would one need it ever?! http://paleodietlifestyle.com/10-reasons-why-fructose-is-bad/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Liver_function Why overloading liver with something it does not need to be overloaded with? :)

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2030)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Loved that y-axis "probability of death from carbohydrates" hilarious!

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:51 AM

The "new question" rather than Hijacking in this thread.

5c9fda2bd0018516806bba200a93f6fa

(608)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Mind you, i can get away with eating about 300 grams of carbs a day without gaining bodyfat, but i choose not to. On most days i'll get less than 100g. Today i got around 70 grams. I prefer fat and protein.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Actually Happy...since you seem to be well informed on the issue would you mind answering the question I just posed?

5c9fda2bd0018516806bba200a93f6fa

(608)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:48 AM

Why are you bashing carbs so badly? Do you still have some more weight to lose or something?

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:47 AM

Severely? For everyone? I don't think so.

5c9fda2bd0018516806bba200a93f6fa

(608)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:47 AM

If you have poor insulin sensitivity, then don't eat them. I can handle a good amount of carbs without problems. Insulin resistant folks are metabolically damaged and won't do well with insulin inducing foods.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:42 AM

Could you point me toward some stuff on this? "strains that live on iron directly"...I haven't seen much on it and am very interested.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:41 AM

Which is why you have to differentiate between cellular and non-cellular carbs, fiber, fiber, fiber, plus the water content within slows digestion to speed that the body can handle. I don't see seasonal fruit and the fructose within being shunned by the paleosphere in those who are metabolically normal, if you are really effed up, severely diabetic and your pancreas is already blown, with a history of fructose abuse (like a soda habit), that would be a different story. And all offal has a small amount of carbohydrate, probably not enough to write home about, but there is some.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:31 AM

How much fiber does one need? And why if one consumes lots of green leafy vegetables (paleo style!).

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:29 AM

That's why I said it is still controversial, I think it largely depends on the liver health of each individual to complete glucogenesis properly, and those who went zero carb may have had some pretty compromised metabolic health to begin with (why bother otherwise). I don't see how feeding the good bacteria in our guts with a bit of starch here and there would be bad idea though, especially in light of the kinds of bacterial overgrowth you can get from those strains that live on iron directly, and the possibility of aggravating candida in those who are susceptible to overgrowth.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:29 AM

Why are they good if they still raise blood glucose severely?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:28 AM

That's why I said it is still controversial, I think it largely depends on the liver health of each individual to complete glucogenesis properly, and my who went zero carb may have had some pretty compromised metabolic health to begin with. I don't see how feeding the good bacteria in our guts with a bit of starch here and there would be bad idea though, especially in light of the kinds of bacterial overgrowth you can get from those strains that live on iron directly, and the possibility of aggravating candida in those who are susceptible to overgrowth.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:25 AM

Another good source to cite: And here's an interesting fact: Dietitans rely heavily on the Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids (Macronutrients)(2005) in providing nutritional advice. But even this publication says on page 275: "The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed." I think this clearly explains the issue of “carbohydrate requirements”.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:20 AM

“carbs in naturally occurring whole form like in organ meats, fruit or vegetables” — Organ meats? Cow/pig meat glycogen is what you mean? Fruit? Fructose is not very honoured among paleo community (otherwise fruits should be regional and seasonal). Vegetables? Don't they contain most of carbs in form of fiber?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:20 AM

Not if the carbohydrate bolus is accompanied by sufficient fiber, water, and nutrients found locked in the cells, which have to be broken down by digestion in things like whole fruit and vegetables. Hyperinsulemia happens by overconsumption of processed carbohydrates where the cell walls have been broken prior to digestion, but it also occurs from consumption of things like processed seed oils that prevent the liver from dealing the carbohydrates properly. Hostess products would be the pinnacle of evil in this equation, and a sweet potato or raspberry would be the essence of innocence.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:14 AM

In essence I don't agree with the PHD/Paul for every person. There is not a minimal carb ingestion necessary unless there is some sort of metabolic issue previously present that makes that person unable to efficiently utilize the gluconeogenisis pathways or mobilize and metabolize fat.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:13 AM

Isn't eating a lot of carbs puts an overload on pancreas which increases insulin production resulting in hyperinsulinemia?

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:11 AM

^ I'll maintain the same attitude towards carbs for both extremes. That is I only think those who are metabolically damaged NEED carbs OR NEED TO RESTRICT THEM COMPLETELY....there is little study in abnormal metabolism of fats and metabolic derangement, but I suspect this is an issue for many that can not thrive on low carbohydrate diets (about 1/4-1/3 of people? based on people like Volek). Could be your issue and the issue of those that have such reactions to VLC diets. The bit about the optimum diet (see http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/) and colorectal cancer is debatable.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:08 AM

Again, they don't differentiate between carbs from things like "whole grain products", and carbs in naturally occurring whole form like in organ meats, fruit or vegetables, so the argument is useless.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:03 AM

That is still a pretty controversial issue. There are some concerns, like they discovered in Scandinavia when people who had been experimenting with zero carb for extended periods of time started developing colon cancer at an alarming rate. Certain carbs (sometimes called prebiotics) seem to be necessary to feed the bacteria in your gut and create the mucus that helps your intestines work properly. Personally I can do really well VLC (haven't tried NC), but many start to develop mental health issues, low thyroid, and even bacterial or fungal overgrowth, all of which can have a big impact.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:00 AM

^ Nope carbs not necessary nor inherently evil.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 02:54 AM

Thank you for the answer! But what if someone will try to live completely without dietary carbohydrates? This is quite possible, and I don't think he'd die or even damage its health.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 02:47 AM

But what about the fact that the body can produce glucose it needs via gluconeogenesis not relying on dietary intake? And, of course, a cite from the source I mentioned: “The anti-meat vegetarians are trying to justify eating unhealthy carbohydrates by saying, "There are bad carbohydrates and good carbohydrates." This is untrue. All carbohydrates are bad, but simple carbohydrates like sugar and white flour are killers. Complex carbohydrates cause debilitating age-related disease also. It just takes longer. There are no healthy carbohydrates.”

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5 Answers

3
61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on October 14, 2012
at 02:41 AM

Carbohydrates are not inherently evil. It's the type of carb that causes problems. This is unscientific propaganda.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 02:47 AM

But what about the fact that the body can produce glucose it needs via gluconeogenesis not relying on dietary intake? And, of course, a cite from the source I mentioned: “The anti-meat vegetarians are trying to justify eating unhealthy carbohydrates by saying, "There are bad carbohydrates and good carbohydrates." This is untrue. All carbohydrates are bad, but simple carbohydrates like sugar and white flour are killers. Complex carbohydrates cause debilitating age-related disease also. It just takes longer. There are no healthy carbohydrates.”

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:08 AM

Again, they don't differentiate between carbs from things like "whole grain products", and carbs in naturally occurring whole form like in organ meats, fruit or vegetables, so the argument is useless.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:53 AM

Why not rely on one's liver and its evolutional function of gluconeogenesis? It can produce enough carbs from protein to support brain function. Fructose is a poison, even for healthy people. Why would one need it ever?! http://paleodietlifestyle.com/10-reasons-why-fructose-is-bad/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Liver_function Why overloading liver with something it does not need to be overloaded with? :)

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 05:16 AM

Your body can produce many substances it needs for life; carbs, cholesterol, saturated fats, and creatine for example as long as you have the necessary precursors. That fact alone is not sufficient reason to avoid such substances, especially when they may have benefits or are found in healthy, nutrient rich foods.

E36cb992cf0a5eba8b97a359c15f38b3

(4347)

on October 14, 2012
at 12:39 PM

Though your body can produce those things, I like the way the Jaminets put it--why stress your body by making it do all those things itself? Why not eat some carbs for the glucose, etc.? Just because your body CAN do something doesn't mean it's ideal most of the time.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:20 AM

“carbs in naturally occurring whole form like in organ meats, fruit or vegetables” — Organ meats? Cow/pig meat glycogen is what you mean? Fruit? Fructose is not very honoured among paleo community (otherwise fruits should be regional and seasonal). Vegetables? Don't they contain most of carbs in form of fiber?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:41 AM

Which is why you have to differentiate between cellular and non-cellular carbs, fiber, fiber, fiber, plus the water content within slows digestion to speed that the body can handle. I don't see seasonal fruit and the fructose within being shunned by the paleosphere in those who are metabolically normal, if you are really effed up, severely diabetic and your pancreas is already blown, with a history of fructose abuse (like a soda habit), that would be a different story. And all offal has a small amount of carbohydrate, probably not enough to write home about, but there is some.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 06:18 PM

Agreed. Omnivory gives us many tools to handle a variety of food landscapes and to adjust to the seasons, and even survive a bit without food, but just because we are able to do certain things to survive does not make any of those ideal and without trade offs.

2
8960effe0a2d790a15f343be0ca8d52e

(50)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:10 AM

Sounds like biblelife.org needs to brush up on some old testament. Genesis 1:29 - ""I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food"

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:36 AM

It is an interesting stance for a bible affiliated group to take, just about every modern religion has strong ties and rituals related to the harvest of grain and fruit.

1
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:06 AM

It's just a lot of ridiculous claims about the dangers of carbs are without any evidence to back them up. The closest they come is a few epidemiological studies, which wouldn't support 95% of their claims even such studies could suggest causality (which they can't).

They also link a number of diseases to hyperinsulenemia and diabetes, but can only claim without proof that there is a connection between carbs and such conditions.

When I saw their "carbohydrate death curve" (a graph suggesting that if 80% of your calories come from carbs you have a 90% chance of dying due to carbs) I realized how much this author was just making stuff up.

7a6529ea25b655132fe58d793f95547a

(2030)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Loved that y-axis "probability of death from carbohydrates" hilarious!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 04:17 AM

Not ironic, Colin :(

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:20 AM

Not if the carbohydrate bolus is accompanied by sufficient fiber, water, and nutrients found locked in the cells, which have to be broken down by digestion in things like whole fruit and vegetables. Hyperinsulemia happens by overconsumption of processed carbohydrates where the cell walls have been broken prior to digestion, but it also occurs from consumption of things like processed seed oils that prevent the liver from dealing the carbohydrates properly. Hostess products would be the pinnacle of evil in this equation, and a sweet potato or raspberry would be the essence of innocence.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on October 14, 2012
at 04:42 PM

Not in every person, Bbd5.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:31 AM

How much fiber does one need? And why if one consumes lots of green leafy vegetables (paleo style!).

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:13 AM

Isn't eating a lot of carbs puts an overload on pancreas which increases insulin production resulting in hyperinsulinemia?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 11:26 AM

Eating lots of carbs → fatty liver → hepatic insulin resistance

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 04:47 AM

Hyperinsulinemia is a product of insulin resistance, not the normal physiological insulin response accompanying carbohydrate consumption, just as high triglycerides are not the result of eating lots of fat. The link between carbs and insulin resistance is only convincing when looking at refined fructose, not fruits and tubers.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:17 PM

That's speculation Bdb5, with little to no actual evidence supporting it (again, unless the carb is refined fructose).

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:22 PM

Also, I just got 2 downvotes on answer! New high score!

0
5c9fda2bd0018516806bba200a93f6fa

(608)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:11 AM

Carbs from grains, refined sugars and legumes are EVIL. Carbs from yams, sweet potatoes, white potatoes (russet), pumpkin, squash, beets and carrots are fine. The source of carbs is what matter the most.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:29 AM

Why are they good if they still raise blood glucose severely?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 04:01 AM

I'm not bashing carbs. I don't have weigh to lose and that's why I started this discussion — to not let this weigh get in :)

5c9fda2bd0018516806bba200a93f6fa

(608)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:47 AM

If you have poor insulin sensitivity, then don't eat them. I can handle a good amount of carbs without problems. Insulin resistant folks are metabolically damaged and won't do well with insulin inducing foods.

5c9fda2bd0018516806bba200a93f6fa

(608)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:48 AM

Why are you bashing carbs so badly? Do you still have some more weight to lose or something?

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:47 AM

Severely? For everyone? I don't think so.

5c9fda2bd0018516806bba200a93f6fa

(608)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Mind you, i can get away with eating about 300 grams of carbs a day without gaining bodyfat, but i choose not to. On most days i'll get less than 100g. Today i got around 70 grams. I prefer fat and protein.

0
6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 02:49 AM

For everything there is a "safe consumption" zone, even water can kill you in excess. I didn't finish the article because it painted with far too broad of a brush to be taken seriously. We must differentiate the origins/impact of each kind of carbohydrate to even begin to discuss this, like cellular versus non-cellular carbohydrates, and how long each one has been in the human food supply.

We often call things genetic because all members of a family respond in an equally poor way to certain foods, which I think is what the article is getting at. The problem nowadays is that there are so many food like substances one could lump into the carbohydrate category that are likely to cause health problems (either fast or slow) for pretty much everyone like HFCS, ultra refined and chemical treated flours, nonfat dairy products, pastries cooked in transfats, etc. It is tempting to lump all carbohydrate into that for the sake of simplicity but it is a dishonest argument, and I don't see how who cares about their integrity can lump something like apples or yams, and soda and candy bars in the same category.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:00 AM

^ Nope carbs not necessary nor inherently evil.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:51 AM

The "new question" rather than Hijacking in this thread.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:25 AM

Another good source to cite: And here's an interesting fact: Dietitans rely heavily on the Dietary Reference Intakes for Energy, Carbohydrate, Fiber, Fat, Fatty Acids, Cholesterol, Protein, and Amino Acids (Macronutrients)(2005) in providing nutritional advice. But even this publication says on page 275: "The lower limit of dietary carbohydrate compatible with life apparently is zero, provided that adequate amounts of protein and fat are consumed." I think this clearly explains the issue of “carbohydrate requirements”.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:28 AM

That's why I said it is still controversial, I think it largely depends on the liver health of each individual to complete glucogenesis properly, and my who went zero carb may have had some pretty compromised metabolic health to begin with. I don't see how feeding the good bacteria in our guts with a bit of starch here and there would be bad idea though, especially in light of the kinds of bacterial overgrowth you can get from those strains that live on iron directly, and the possibility of aggravating candida in those who are susceptible to overgrowth.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:29 AM

That's why I said it is still controversial, I think it largely depends on the liver health of each individual to complete glucogenesis properly, and those who went zero carb may have had some pretty compromised metabolic health to begin with (why bother otherwise). I don't see how feeding the good bacteria in our guts with a bit of starch here and there would be bad idea though, especially in light of the kinds of bacterial overgrowth you can get from those strains that live on iron directly, and the possibility of aggravating candida in those who are susceptible to overgrowth.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:03 AM

That is still a pretty controversial issue. There are some concerns, like they discovered in Scandinavia when people who had been experimenting with zero carb for extended periods of time started developing colon cancer at an alarming rate. Certain carbs (sometimes called prebiotics) seem to be necessary to feed the bacteria in your gut and create the mucus that helps your intestines work properly. Personally I can do really well VLC (haven't tried NC), but many start to develop mental health issues, low thyroid, and even bacterial or fungal overgrowth, all of which can have a big impact.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Actually Happy...since you seem to be well informed on the issue would you mind answering the question I just posed?

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on October 14, 2012
at 07:12 AM

I didn't see a new question out there on the main page, so here's a link to some info about iron stealing bacteria. "Actinomyces spp., Mycobacterium spp., pathogenic strains of E.Coli, Corynebacterium spp. and many others" --http://www.gaps.me/?page_id=20 And the "how" of it: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080731140223.htm

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:42 AM

Could you point me toward some stuff on this? "strains that live on iron directly"...I haven't seen much on it and am very interested.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:11 AM

^ I'll maintain the same attitude towards carbs for both extremes. That is I only think those who are metabolically damaged NEED carbs OR NEED TO RESTRICT THEM COMPLETELY....there is little study in abnormal metabolism of fats and metabolic derangement, but I suspect this is an issue for many that can not thrive on low carbohydrate diets (about 1/4-1/3 of people? based on people like Volek). Could be your issue and the issue of those that have such reactions to VLC diets. The bit about the optimum diet (see http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/) and colorectal cancer is debatable.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 14, 2012
at 02:54 AM

Thank you for the answer! But what if someone will try to live completely without dietary carbohydrates? This is quite possible, and I don't think he'd die or even damage its health.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 14, 2012
at 03:14 AM

In essence I don't agree with the PHD/Paul for every person. There is not a minimal carb ingestion necessary unless there is some sort of metabolic issue previously present that makes that person unable to efficiently utilize the gluconeogenisis pathways or mobilize and metabolize fat.

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