2

votes

vlc/lc keto diet and longevity

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created October 10, 2011 at 6:56 AM

I would like to know ig the above diet is positively(ie. Promotes)related to longevity or if it has the opposite effect or is unrelated. I would(as mosr would)love to live as well/long as possible. Does the oft-touted metabolic stress associated with this diet have validity?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:34 AM

Jared Diamond, not Neil.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:32 AM

Quilt, whaddya mean by celluar terroir? You mean terror or terrain?

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 11, 2011
at 03:34 AM

Duke, if you mean VLCers produce less feces pound per pound, I agree. But since when the size of your poop determined your health? Neil Diamond actually pointed out that the larger poop size of the aborigines (due to fiber consumption) denoted better GI health than those eating the SAD.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 11, 2011
at 03:30 AM

Lots of natives followed the ketogenic diet? Except for the Inuits, it would be hard to find any: maybe the Blackfeet tribe of the plains that lived off of buffalo herds and pemmicans. That's about it, plus the milk tribes of central Africa: the Masais, the Dinkas, etc. That's all. Everyone else ate tubers like there is no tomorrow.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:41 PM

Mr Duke, Dr Jeff Life is a friend as are many of the anti aging docs......they convinced me of this about three yrs ago. The key is getting patients to eat this diet. Its easier when it is a paleo approach. Jeff eats a modified mediterrean diet but its quite good minus some grains...low in fructose, and pufas for sure and pretty high in protein and carbs

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Namby the best test is spectra telomere test......but i use a clinical battery to assess the backround cellular terroir. I want them all low and then i think eating a diet that stimulates igf1 and mTOR works. Mallory is correct tht this basket of people is small in america.....but it makes up a large percentage of patients in an age management practice because this is how they are taught to eat

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:35 PM

Plus one.......

10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

(114)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:30 PM

so...maybe recombinant hgh is a good idea aftet all inflammation or no inflammation....

10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

(114)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:27 PM

interesting but what about positive nitrogen balance and preventing muscle catabolism in athletes?

10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

(114)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:25 PM

hence my question: lots of native amercans followed the vlc diet(eg.eskimo)but few lived as long as those not. however if health begins in the gut wouldnt vlc be a better option? if.....

10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

(114)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:23 PM

vlc =good. least amount of digestive trouble no putrefaction that in irself musr count for something positive in the grand scheme.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on October 10, 2011
at 07:47 PM

I'd like to ask that person to consider respecting the opinions of others, agreeing to disagree on certain points, and to save his downvotes for things that are objectively wrong, rude, or irrelevant.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on October 10, 2011
at 07:46 PM

To the anonymous downvoter: considering that this answer is explicitly my opinion, and has links to references and well-reasoned arguments (whether or not their conclusions are correct), your action is not very constructive. I mention this not because it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but mainly because I'm getting irked at the recent pattern of getting a downvote for every VLC-positive question answer I write, no matter how thoughtful, or what disclaimers included. Most likely they are all from the same person.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on October 10, 2011
at 06:11 PM

I didn't say the ideas were hers, but she did talk about them at AHS and I did find the comments interesting ;).

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 10, 2011
at 06:06 PM

Btw, it's useful to point out that those tribes known for longevity (the Okinawans, SE Asians, rural Mexicans, and various aborigines) do seem to consume less protein, have no exposure to dairy (thus no IGF1 elevated), are shorter in stature, and rather slim on the BMI measure. Consequently, their caloric needs are restricted. I've yet to personally meet a stocky person nor a very tall person over the age of 85.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 10, 2011
at 06:01 PM

Quilt, how would you define low inflammatory state? HS CRP below 0.3? Or is there a better inflammation marker (e.g., IL-6) for that low state?

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on October 10, 2011
at 04:37 PM

http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/10/strength-training-may-reduce-protein.html relevant...

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on October 10, 2011
at 04:37 PM

"Studies on hgh and heart failure in low inflammatory states increases life span and increases their telomere lengths" KEY...LOW inflammatory states...good luck finding many people with that

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 03:21 PM

Those really are not hers......they are from lots of longevity research but the data is far from clear in primates and humans. Studies arenon going now about this issue in primates and humans.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on October 10, 2011
at 01:20 PM

measuring markers that CW thinks will lead to longevity is fail imo.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 10, 2011
at 12:23 PM

Check out http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831640/

A994080d499afca98cdc9de896701ebd

(1281)

on October 10, 2011
at 07:29 AM

if you're not overweight and/or carb-addicted, there's no reason for you to go VLC, in my opinion. I personally feel better with lots of starch in my diet and rather moderate fat. Sorry, I don't have a scientific answer. Personally, I felt awful in ketosis after a week or so. And athletic performance and recovery sucked too. So, for me, the answer is no.

  • 10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

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5 Answers

7
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on October 10, 2011
at 07:10 PM

I would wager that a ketogenic diet (VLC) is the most longevity promoting diet.

See this question, and my answer to it there.

As to it causing metabolic stress, I don't think that is correct, please see the discussion here.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:35 PM

Plus one.......

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:34 AM

Jared Diamond, not Neil.

10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

(114)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:23 PM

vlc =good. least amount of digestive trouble no putrefaction that in irself musr count for something positive in the grand scheme.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on October 10, 2011
at 07:46 PM

To the anonymous downvoter: considering that this answer is explicitly my opinion, and has links to references and well-reasoned arguments (whether or not their conclusions are correct), your action is not very constructive. I mention this not because it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but mainly because I'm getting irked at the recent pattern of getting a downvote for every VLC-positive question answer I write, no matter how thoughtful, or what disclaimers included. Most likely they are all from the same person.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on October 10, 2011
at 07:47 PM

I'd like to ask that person to consider respecting the opinions of others, agreeing to disagree on certain points, and to save his downvotes for things that are objectively wrong, rude, or irrelevant.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 11, 2011
at 03:34 AM

Duke, if you mean VLCers produce less feces pound per pound, I agree. But since when the size of your poop determined your health? Neil Diamond actually pointed out that the larger poop size of the aborigines (due to fiber consumption) denoted better GI health than those eating the SAD.

3
Cdee7454bccdc4ac14ec23b9657eb573

on October 10, 2011
at 12:12 PM

Nobody knows the answer to your question, MRDuke. The studies haven't been done.

Consider, however, Dan Buettner's Blue Zones: none of his longevity hot spots were eating chronic very-low-carb or even low-carb. Buettner considered the hot spot diets to be mostly "plant-based," which isn't to say meat-free.

-Steve

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 11, 2011
at 03:30 AM

Lots of natives followed the ketogenic diet? Except for the Inuits, it would be hard to find any: maybe the Blackfeet tribe of the plains that lived off of buffalo herds and pemmicans. That's about it, plus the milk tribes of central Africa: the Masais, the Dinkas, etc. That's all. Everyone else ate tubers like there is no tomorrow.

10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

(114)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:25 PM

hence my question: lots of native amercans followed the vlc diet(eg.eskimo)but few lived as long as those not. however if health begins in the gut wouldnt vlc be a better option? if.....

1
3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

on October 10, 2011
at 02:57 PM

Arguably you can relieve metabolic stress by restricting protein consumption. According to Nora, the maximum protein consumption for someone is equal to 80% of your weight in kilogram. So for someone weighing 160 lbs.,

Max(Protein) = 160 / 2.2 = 73 kg x 80% ~ 60g

Not a lot. Combine this with calorie restriction, which has been proven to induce longevity in lab animals. I would combine protein restriction with the Jaminets' PHD, which means about 40% (800 kcal) of your daily kcal needs in carbs + protein. Pick 40%, since 30% (600kcal) is the floor.

You have your protein percentage (60 x 4.1 = 240 kcal) already; so the rest is 560 or 560/3.8 = 150g in carbs. Then, the rest is 1200 in fat or 1200/8.8 = 140g.

So what do we have?

12% protein. 28% carbs. 60% fat. That satisfies BOTH protein restriction and glucose sufficiency (according to PHD), as well as caloric restriction; at 2,000 cals and 160 lbs., you'll lean out, lose some weight, and stay healthy until the day you die.

10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

(114)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:27 PM

interesting but what about positive nitrogen balance and preventing muscle catabolism in athletes?

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on October 10, 2011
at 04:37 PM

http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/10/strength-training-may-reduce-protein.html relevant...

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 10, 2011
at 06:06 PM

Btw, it's useful to point out that those tribes known for longevity (the Okinawans, SE Asians, rural Mexicans, and various aborigines) do seem to consume less protein, have no exposure to dairy (thus no IGF1 elevated), are shorter in stature, and rather slim on the BMI measure. Consequently, their caloric needs are restricted. I've yet to personally meet a stocky person nor a very tall person over the age of 85.

0
Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 03:26 PM

My personal feelings on both IGF1 and mTOR signaling and longevity are both are bad when he backround cellular terroir is inflammatory by not when hs crp is low......why? Studies on hgh and heart failure in low inflammatory states increases life span and increases their telomere lengths. Moreover studies on high carnosine intakes (more dietary protein) show increased telomere lengths as well as long as hs crp is low.......these studies show that cron and igf1 signaling also must be put into proper context.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 10, 2011
at 06:01 PM

Quilt, how would you define low inflammatory state? HS CRP below 0.3? Or is there a better inflammation marker (e.g., IL-6) for that low state?

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Namby the best test is spectra telomere test......but i use a clinical battery to assess the backround cellular terroir. I want them all low and then i think eating a diet that stimulates igf1 and mTOR works. Mallory is correct tht this basket of people is small in america.....but it makes up a large percentage of patients in an age management practice because this is how they are taught to eat

C471216c9fb4fcf886b7ac84a4046b49

(1371)

on October 10, 2011
at 04:37 PM

"Studies on hgh and heart failure in low inflammatory states increases life span and increases their telomere lengths" KEY...LOW inflammatory states...good luck finding many people with that

10dd073d45b65f00ad31149959d08b8e

(114)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:30 PM

so...maybe recombinant hgh is a good idea aftet all inflammation or no inflammation....

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 09:41 PM

Mr Duke, Dr Jeff Life is a friend as are many of the anti aging docs......they convinced me of this about three yrs ago. The key is getting patients to eat this diet. Its easier when it is a paleo approach. Jeff eats a modified mediterrean diet but its quite good minus some grains...low in fructose, and pufas for sure and pretty high in protein and carbs

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on October 11, 2011
at 04:32 AM

Quilt, whaddya mean by celluar terroir? You mean terror or terrain?

0
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on October 10, 2011
at 10:55 AM

Check out Nora Gedgaudas' presentation at AHS11. I don't follow her prescription for low protein and low carb, but her comments re paleo CRON were interesting. If you're interested in longevity, perhaps there's something there.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25482)

on October 10, 2011
at 03:21 PM

Those really are not hers......they are from lots of longevity research but the data is far from clear in primates and humans. Studies arenon going now about this issue in primates and humans.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on October 10, 2011
at 06:11 PM

I didn't say the ideas were hers, but she did talk about them at AHS and I did find the comments interesting ;).

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