I'm debating on the advantages/disadvantages to Leangains/CBL as far as training times, and carb loading times.
Martin's ideal is fasted training at the end of a 16hr fast for max fat burning, at 11am, with mealtime at 12pm and again at 7-8pm, with most calories/carbs/protein in the PWO meal. I've been eating two equal meals following this ideal.
Keifer's ideal is 5-7pm training, basically same IF no breakfast, fat/protein only before training (I never eat carb in off days or before training anyway), high GI carb load PWO at night (when he isn't contradicting himself).
Difference is training times, and fasted training, mostly. Shakes aren't my thing. High GI would be rice in my case. Taste wise I much prefer sweet potatoes.
With my body, I don't gain muscle or fat very much. I'm insulin resistant since childhood. So, to maximally uptake carbs into my muscle cells and not fat cells, ideally I figure I should eat ALL my carbs immediately PWO to take advantage of the phenomenon of resistance training induced non insulin mediated glucose uptake / tGLUT translocation. Waiting to eat any portion of carbs to hours after I train would rely on insulin and sensitivity to it, which I lack, because the training effect of insulin independent glucose uptake ends at some hour after training.
But, as Keifer argues, nite carb loading is best. So, shall I train fasted at 11am and carb load at 12pm, then fat/protein only at 7pm, or eat protein and fat only at 12pm breaking my 16/8 IF fast, train at 6-7 and carb load at 7pm? I go to sleep at 10pm and wake at 5am.
So, since my goal is fat loss, what shall I do? I can train 5-7pm two days a week, and 8-9pm another day, if necessary. Or as Ive been doing, i can train at 11am all three days. I can eat all my carbs PWO, at night or at lunch, or split between PWO meals, in either training scenario.
What to do?
asked byanimaleater (2432)
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on June 29, 2013
at 07:34 PM
IF the goal is fat loss... meal timing is completely irrelevant and makes no difference between eating 1 meal a day or 10 meals a day or fasting 6 hours a day or fasting 20 hours a day... Makes NO difference in body composition.
on June 12, 2013
at 03:50 PM
Currently I go to the gym at 9am twice a week. I train fasted and wait until 12am to go to lunch. I get grilled shrimp and steamed rice, in an attempt to get low fat, high carbs and a good protein. Then, on my way home I usually pick up some kind of fruit, and I eat rice/some lean protein at home. I know there is some timing that isn't perfect, but I am assuming that, if the muscles are depleted of glycogen, they are going to be ready to take up glycogen even if I don't get it to them right away. On off days I am relatively high-fat/low carb, though I have more cheats now since I am trying to gain muscle and CBL seems to increase my overall hunger. Things are going in the right direction. The one thing I don't like, that is worrying me is that I keep getting those cramps in my feet- and it seems to come from the carbs (I've got a question on here about that). I've heard a recent suggestion that more salt might counteract it. Last night I awoke with a terrible cramp in my foot. I limped into the kitchen and took some salt. It seemed to help, but maybe just walking around on it helped, I don't know.
I hesitate to say do this at all if you are trying to lose weight, but one insulin spike a week seems to help reset some things, so take one post-workout night and eat a low fat/high carb meal. Since you are looking at this though, I'm guessing you also secretly want to gain muscle, in which case it is really hard to get the carbs in just at night. That is why I am cautiously eating a starchy lunch in addition to the nightime carbs. I was pretty stuffed anyway last night- I had defrosted some fish for a protein source, but I just couldn't eat anymore after the rice. I heard somewhere the target is like 3xbodyweight, which is above 500 for me. It seems crazy, but I wasn't gaining at all until I started pushing it.
on December 16, 2012
at 06:02 PM
I know we've been on this one before, animaleater, but just to update you on progress: I've more or less combined the programs this way:
4 days rest - normal lean gains, high protein, high fat, low carb 2 days training - 20 hour fast (10:00pm-6:00pm) with CBL coming those two nights 1 day training - normal lean gains (equal carbs lunch and dinner)
As far as results:
I live in Kenya and don't have access to a scale, but mirror check wise - way more definition, stomach feels better eating carbs at night, etc.
I was doing two 24 hour fasts on rest days before this, usually with an absurdly large t-bone to break the fast. Calories the same both methods, more carbs with the CBL than before. So I can't say if it's simply a result of more carbs, the timing of the fasts, or carb backloading. I need to do more n=1, but I'm thinking if you combine the two and start doing more afternoon training, things will pick up.
on December 16, 2012
at 05:50 PM
I could be wrong but CBL and carbnite are not identical. As far as CBL, keifer says to eat some carbs PWO, but your high carb day is on your day off. Martin is saying do your highcarb day on the day of training..
on November 18, 2012
at 03:39 PM
Eating too much fat same day as carb load (before or after) will be not be stored because of high insulin.
Eating carbs all day will help muscle retention and do little damage if caloric load is considered (Lyle Mcdonald recommends loading for 2 days on a diet).
Starches can be kept slow later in night for better satiety.
on November 08, 2012
at 08:58 AM
For the past 3 years I have been supporting people on pre-training, HEALTHFUL fat-cutting methods. There's one really neat method that is paleo-convertible, and was designed for athletes, but it does require that you relax on (relax, not cease altogether) the training for between 1 and 3 weeks (depending upon your starting metabolic "state"). As for guidelines, the method is more about proper food combining and providing time for proper digestion, than it is timing meals, skipping meals, and fasting for long periods. Fasting can actually send the system into a "storage" mode, while, per what you've stated, you want to optimize the "burning" behaviors/energy expenditure. Note to self: the body cannot be in storage mode and burning mode at the same time. What I like about this program is that while fat is released, the body is laying down additional muscle, on which to support glycogen stores for competition time. Add to these, cellular energy support supplements (goodies you can find at your local health supplements store or online), then not only should you see significant stamina benefits, you should also enjoy cardiovascular function benefits, hormonal, and immune support benefits. Best to you as you find your way. ~Dr. Amron at GreenHealthPDX.com