Doing leangains. My goal is to reach 5-6% bodyfat, reset my fat set-point, keep it there, then add calories slowly leangains recomp style to build muscle.
I IF, eat 2 times between 12pm-8pm, train fasted 11am. 2000cal high carb really low fat workout days, 1400cal high fat zero carb rest days.
I've gotten below 8-9%BF this way, but the going is slow. On rest days I feel really zapped of energy, and hungry, ESP two of them in a row.
I've come from 6mo of zero carb keto before, so I'm keto-fat-adapted. The zapped feeling is even more pronounced if, on rest days, I do some brisk walking or light cycling near the end of my IF period @10am-12pm. I figured this would burn more fat effectively, but I feel depleted as I get low cal that day and no carbs. We're talking very light exercise here.
Leangains is not a low carb diet, and most folks eat some carbs, just low carbs, on rest days. I reasoned maintaining the keto adaptation ability on rest days would be a good idea to rest my insulin-metabolism-system and prime me for post workout carb load absorption, so I've done zero.
For those doing leangains who do eat carbs on rest days, how much, at what meal (one or both), and how many carbs do you eat?
How about comparing Keifer's Carb Backloading to leangains, where you eat your carbs at night, and basically stay keto on rest days (the latter of which I already do)?
What would be the advantages / disadvantages to being zero carb rest days vs a little?
If I do add some carbs on rest days, I figured I'd eat my first meal meat-fat only as I've been doing, and then have a lean meat and small carb meal my second and last meal. How's that sound? Or, would it be better to do the reverse and have the lean meat and a little carbs for my first meal (and after my walking/cycling when I do that)?
asked byanimaleater (2432)
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on November 14, 2012
at 10:35 PM
My comment might be a little dated, but I think it's relevant.
I actually hired Andy for 12 weeks and got a macro break down from him and regular consultations. Under his program he does not recommend ZERO carb on rest days by any means, usually the suggestion is to get two pieces of fruit and leave it at that. I don't see any benefit to going zero carb on these days, since it takes more than 24 hours to go into ketosis and that's not ever going to happen on a leangains protocol since it involves regular carb cycling.
Also, the deficit you need to reach bf percentages below 8-10 are to the point where, no matter what, you're going to be hungry more than half the time. That's why I gave up on my abs - I got to pretty solid four pack but I was miserable on all my rest days from eating so few calories. It's just not sustainable unless you're a model and your career demands it. Personally, I hated it even though I looked great. Being hungry on rest days is just kind of the ugly dark side of leangains they don't talk about. You can't feel satiated to the max and keep your abs unless you're genetically predisposed to that physique to begin with (which I am not).
on October 16, 2012
at 11:21 PM
i personally do a leangains type IF but i do not do the high carb on the training day. i use to do the carb days but they made me soo tired.
i tried all different kinds of carbs. even doing the paleo type ones, tubers, veggies, and fruit, and i still was bogged down.
so now i do low carb throughout the week and then do a moderate carb "refeed" during the weekend. i also try to do some kind of high intensity work each day on the weekend when i do moderate carbs.
i found that doing some carbs with a good amount of protein and fat does not make me tired but allows me to get some carbs in. examples are boneless wings(breaded), (very)loaded potato with some kind of meat, potatoes with chicken nuggets mixed in, and sometimes brown rice with chicken.
basically, and im sure youve heard this, it comes down to what works for you. i kept trying to find what other people did that worked, but until i started trying things out myself and based on my body, none of that worked for me. experiment, record, and learn.
on September 30, 2012
at 07:24 PM
I do a similar protocol to what you mention (LeanGains coupled with carb backloading). Here are my observations. I'm also doing some n=1 with a minimal workout regimen (20 minute total body suspension workout 3 times per week) for about 3 weeks and will continue for at least 2 more. I would speak to the strength increases, however I feel it is mainly neuromuscular adaptation at this point. I have noticed improvements in my metabolic conditioning and endurance. Body composition has been favorable (less fat, maintain muscle).
I consume bulletproof coffee in the morning. I always work out fasted and break the fast post workout with a high carb meal. I've also been letting the fast continue for bit post workout. I've been eating a lot of sushi lately, but my favorite is with sweet potatoes. My fruit consumption is mainly avocados and some berries. In a nutshell the carb sources are: non-starchy vegetables, sweet potatoes, and white rice. On rest days I consume just the non starchy vegetables (spinach, kale, and broccoli). I've not been checking for keto, but I've noticed continual gains in favorable body comp.
on September 30, 2012
at 03:17 PM
i do pretty much the same as you animaleater. works fairly well for me! i would see any disadventage unless you low carb for a few days in a row(strenth loss). keep doing what you doing!
on August 26, 2013
at 09:12 PM
Has anyone successfully been able to carb back load and play a competitive sport like ice hockey? I play 3 times a week and I need to loses bodyfat, but I tried Carb Nite and had not glycogen stores to play well. Is there a system that works for fat loss, but allows me to play well say on Thirs and Sunday games?
on October 01, 2012
at 05:29 PM
I really see no reason to drop all carbs on rest days. That's just a preference. I notice I stay leaner when I include a certain number of carbs in my diet daily, and just add in more carbs post workout or add 1 higher carb reefed day every 3-4 days or so.
I also do not like carb backloading, and try to go to bed every night having used all my carbs up already, so I'm just burning fat while asleep (which makes sense, why would you want glycolytic fuel before resting?). Plus, I don't infrequently consume alcohol at night, and I try not mix both alcohol and carbs( unless it is a cape cod or a screwdriver :) which would be in the afternoon hours anyways, and not at night). I much prefer to eat carbs in the morning and post workout, and usually don't eat any for around 6+ hours before bed. Just works better for me, and I run between 4-8% body fat year round for the past 5 years.
I say take this with a grain of salt and just experiment to find out what works for you.
on October 01, 2012
at 05:22 PM
I think genetics plays a significant part in how low you can reasonably get your body fat without extreme measures... maybe for your genetics, "really lean" is 7% without losing muscle mass?
The body builders that are shredded at less than 5% body fat are genetically gifted and most likely also taking supplements to facilitate lower body fat.
on October 01, 2012
at 03:44 AM
I think we may be at the same point.
im about 8-9% bf and can happily sit here forever it feels like. doing a leangains/ back-loading hybrid style. look up Nate Miyaki.
It seems to be the point where things work great (for young healthy males at least). and also the point where you have to take increasingly more controlled steps to take things lower.
personnally i cheat a bit. toast sometimes with my eggs at cafe, ice cream with the GF, cake when a housemate does some baking... pasta if someone has made some for me. i have no issues, so it is no big deal, but i know it is the first thing i need to tidy if i want to drop a % or too.
You can add in backloading. hold out on any carbs till the evening, and save up at least half your food for the day for a big evening meal. Cant say for sure if it will work for you, but the idea is to keep turning the screws. every little hack helps.
on September 30, 2012
at 01:53 AM
I've seen that Keifer suggests eating carbs at night if at a low bodyfat percentage but I'd suggest asking at their forum. Dangerouslyhardcore.com forum. You could also check out reddit.com/r/leangains
I don't think this is the right forum for your needs. It seems like you're really advanced.